Do you celebrate Christmas?

[idontknow]

As a kid growing up my family did we had a Christmas tree and decorated. But then i got older and became an atheist and quit caring about the holiday all together. Now that i am a believer and i have found universal reconciliation which has made religion and the bible make sense to me. Since Christmas is coming up i am thinking about the holiday again for the first time in a long time.

It seems like most UR believers don't really like Christmas because it's a Pagan holiday and really don't have anything to do with Jesus. So i am just wondering what UR believers think about it in general good or bad. And if you avoid it because it's pagan or just go along with it because it's the thought that counts more than the history of it.

[GodIsLove]

My thoughts, as of now, and subject to change: almost anything can be pagan. The names of the planets, for example. I don't think you can accidentally become pagan. Idols are anything that get in the way of your relationship with God, something that you feel overly attached to. Many people make idols out of money, material objects, etc. I do put up a tree, and it is to me just a beautiful reminder of the festive season, the celebration of Jesus's birth (it is light up, he is the light of the world). I have two little kids and they know Santa is pretend because I don't want him to overshadow the true reason for the day and because I don't believe in lying to them about anything. We buy a couple of presets for the kids, read books about Jesus's birth, make cookies, visit with family, go to church, do things for others (make gifts, donate things). I think there is actually some historical evidence that Jesus actually was born on Dec 25 (star of Bethlehem, early Christians thought it was that day, etc). Anyway, I think celebrating is a good thing. Others may not, and that is okay too. 

[micah7:9]

My reason and thought on this subject for some 20 yrs. even when I was a in Pentecost and preaching hell fire....I found no evidence of instruction for it's celebration, no evidence that it was ever recognized for celebration other than thankful praise that the SAVIOR IS BORN! I celebrate His birth everyday just as much as I celebrate everyday that HE IS RISEN! :dsunny:

Yes it separates from family and friends.... 2Co 6:17  Wherefore Come ye out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, And touch no unclean thing; And I will receive you,
2Co 6:18  And will be to you a Father, And ye shall be to me sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.  :Peace2:

[Lazarus Short]

Jeremiah 10:2-4:

"...Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; the the heathen are dismayed at them.   For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the ax.  They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not."

I think this an early reference to what we today call a Christmas Tree.  God calls it vanity/futility, connects it with the heathen.

[GodIsLove]

There was a thread about this a while back but I can't find it now, you can search and see if you can find it. I have heard all the arguments for and against, and I think it comes down to your conscience and being led by the Holy Spirit. Do you think by celebrating Christmas it will strengthen or hinder your walk with God? There may be different answers.

[Eduard]

I am not going to be hypocritical. I think of Christmas as a holiday for joy in the middle of winter and for kindness, but I am also not bothered by Christians that celebrate the birth of Christ on December 25, or in January by the old calendar.

And as for pagans, well, nobody worships the tree or Santa Claus.  :icon_jokercolor:

[joeteekay]

I kept Christmas as a young person. My parents kept it. It was a time of family gathering, decorating a tree, lots of food, attending church services. A time of celebration and a feeling of righteousness for honoring Jesus.

BUT is keeping Christmas something God wants us to do. I do not thing so.

A few points:

A careful analysis of Scripture, however, clearly indicates that Dec. 25 is an unlikely date for Christ's birth. Here are two primary reasons:

Shepherds were not in the fields during December.  Luke's account "suggests that Jesus may have been born in summer or early fall. Since December is cold and rainy in Judea, it is likely the shepherds would have sought shelter for their flocks at night".

Second, Jesus' parents came to Bethlehem to register in a Roman census (Luke 2:1-4 Luke 2:1-41
Such censuses were not taken in winter, when temperatures often dropped below freezing and roads were in poor condition. Taking a census under such conditions would have been self-defeating.

The biblical accounts point to the fall of the year as the most likely time of Jesus' birth, based on the conception and birth of John the Baptist.

Assuming John's conception took place near the end of June, adding nine months brings us to the end of March as the most likely time for John's birth. Adding another six months (the difference in ages between John and Jesus) brings us to the end of September or early October as the likely time of Jesus' birth.
 
History shows that December 25 was popularized as the date for Christmas, not because Christ was born on that day, but because it was already popular in pagan religious celebrations as the birthday of the sun.
Although it is difficult to determine the first time anyone celebrated December 25 as Christmas Day, historians are in general agreement that it was sometime during the fourth century. This is an amazingly late date. Christmas was not observed in Rome, the capital of the Roman Empire, until about 300 years after Christ's death. Its origins cannot be traced back to either the teachings or practices of the earliest Christians.

The Bible nowhere mentions Christmas or tells us to celebrate Christ's birth.

This is not to say that the Bible doesn't tell us to commemorate a highly significant event in Jesus Christ's life on earth. It does —but that event is His death, not His birth.

Much more information concerning the fact that Christ was not born any where near Dec 25 is a historical fact. It originated well before Christ was born. That time around December 25 was a pagan celebration to worship the sun because of the winter solstice and the return of lengthening daylight.

If you do a Google search on this topic you will find much more information.

Many of my friends and some of my family keep Christmas because they view it as something a Christian should do. I would not consider trying to tell them its vain to keep it. I tried that a long time ago - to no avail.

:2c:

"For the customs of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter" (Jeremiah 10:2-4, New International Version).

[Lorenzo]

Christ, in the believer's heart, is born everyday, so Christmas is a bit vain because you should celebrate it every day.
Anyway, I keep Christmas to celebrate and remember the grace God shed over me in the day Christ were born for the first time in my soul. Of course, eating and drinking a lot in Christmas eve is not the perfect way to celebrate it (besides, here in Italy people eat a lot during celebrations), but why not having a service, or singing to Him a joyous song, or something similar?
Of course, Christmas was born as a pagan celebration, but we use many pagan things nowadays, and even the Jews used them! For example, Jesus spake about a "coat" (Matthew 5:40) which actually was a "chiton", a Greek mantle. It seems to me Jesus never condemned people who used it.
It is not "using pagan stuff" that makes you pagan (as long as you don't eat a sacrificial lamb slain for Zeus, of course :smile: ), but your heart. If your heart is pure, if you celebrate Christmas not as a "drink-eat-presents" day, but as a "Loving-Saviour-is-born" day, I don't see anything wrong. Anyway, we must remember that with God every day is a special day, and celebrating Christmas is not something we "ought" to do, or some day in which God is closer or anything like that, but only a special day in which we should firmly, joyously and continuously remember God's grace.

[bushy]

The last Christmas I remember my family celebrating was when I was five. So I grew up thinking it was bad to celebrate it but eventually came to  see the bad fruit of that in looking down on those who did. Now for at least the last ten years I've gotten tired of my christian walk consisting of the long list of things 'we as Christians don't do'.  :Pray: That includes Easter too and an endless list of excuses for bashing people to make ourselves feel more holy. Now since I came to understand universal reconciliation I don't want to condemn anybody for anything, maybe going too far that direction, I don't know. I still don't get into the celebration much but do love to think about Jesus birth into this world once in a while and also like to see others celebrating in whatever way they like, even those who I suppose you'd call unbelievers. Just my feelings about Christmas and a lot of things. 

[marie glen]

Oh I do love this topic.. (or am I being sarcastic? I'm not really sure! :dontknow: :laughing7: :Peace2: )

My daughter grew up with a friend who's family was Jehovah Witnesses, who never celebrated Christ-mass or birthdays.. and she was simply always resentful of it, having to miss them (can tell something by its fruit, I figure).

Romans 14 says "let no one judge you concerning meats or days, but let each one be fully persuaded in their own mind" - I may have two verse/chapters overlapping.. You can eat meat offered to idols, it says, unless your brother who thinks it's wrong to eat it is with you, then think of him, who may be tempted to eat but will then condemn himself..

Same with the Sabbath "some observe the day unto the LORD, another does not observe the day, also unto the LORD" ..."who are you to judge your brother?"

I heard someone say once, a missionary to China, that one of the best ways they can witness to people in China, is through the holidays of East-er and Christmas, as it wouldn't get you arrested.

The days of the week are called by pagan names.. Saturday - the LORD's very own Sabbath is named after the 'god' Saturnalia... The third Spring Holy Day always occurred on Sunday, as did Pentecost - some folks think sunday worship of the Lord is the mark of the beast.. Like any day actually belongs to anyone but Yahweh who created them.

I figure the same with Christmas.. the adversary may have confiscated the day, then Christianity covered it.. and I have no desire to see it given back to the pagans..

Christmas lights remind me of stained glass windows..

In Old Testament days it was a heathen practice to cut down a tree, decorate it and bow down to it, as a representative of so called gods who were immortal.. (pine) but Paul said what is offered to idols as to a god, we know are no gods.. If a tree offends, I wouldn't do it.. But I absolutely think western civilization and society is much better off with the (christian) holidays than not.. even if many only perceive it as materialism.. Still many are able to use it to point to the savior. We may celebrate His birth every day, but the world doesn't.

Just my :2c:  :Peace2: :Peace2: :girlheart:

[Seth]

I celebrate Christmas myself. I believe, according to my analysis of Jeremiah 10, seeing it in the larger context, that the passage is about creating idols (i.e. images of gods or animals) and worshiping them. He talks about forming idols out of metal and also out of wood. The whole passage is about idol worship.

I believe God looks at the intent of the heart and judges us according to that, which is why we can eat meat sacrificed to idols and not be unclean for it. Someone who opens presents and decorates a Christmas tree is no more made unclean than someone who eats meat sacrificed to an idol. Meat is meat. A tree is a tree. Wrapped presents are wrapped presents. They are not unclean in themselves. But what proceeds from the heart makes one unclean. IMO

[micah7:9]

The last Christmas I remember my family celebrating was when I was five. So I grew up thinking it was bad to celebrate it but eventually came to  see the bad fruit of that in looking down on those who did. Now for at least the last ten years I've gotten tired of my christian walk consisting of the long list of things 'we as Christians don't do'.  :Pray: That includes Easter too and an endless list of excuses for bashing people to make ourselves feel more holy. Now since I came to understand universal reconciliation I don't want to condemn anybody for anything, maybe going too far that direction, I don't know. I still don't get into the celebration much but do love to think about Jesus birth into this world once in a while and also like to see others celebrating in whatever way they like, even those who I suppose you'd call unbelievers. Just my feelings about Christmas and a lot of things.

:iagree:

[Seth]

 :iagree:

[Dandelion]

I absolutely celebrate Christmas. However it began, it is a time to be joyful, give thanks, and remember the humble beginnings of our precious Savior. He was not born in a castle with royalty, but in a lowly stable, with no room for him in the inn. He came among us, in this manner, and, even in His birth, teaches us what is truly important in life.

I am not big on presents, but I do give some. And I never taught my children about Santa or all that......only about Jesus, and His birth. My children never got lots of toys, but only a few. And there were always lots of ways we celebrated through Church, community, friends and family, and in sharing with those who were in need, always in His name. Christmas music was always a wonderful part of Christmas for me. As a child, I loved to be in the church choir for Christmas.

I find no conflict with this, at all.

So, Merry Christmas, everyone! Be blessed.       :dsunny:

D. 

[sheila]

   I have and haven't kept it.   I was doing some research on the Festival of Dedication[lights] this week...and considering keeping that this

year. When I come across some things I found interesting.  Hannuka[festival of lights] is Chislev 25 Nov-Dec.  the candles are of different

colours. They have already begun stringing the lights in the park for the Thanksgiving-Christmas season next door to me.Co-incidence?

     :dontknow:  an olive tree is an evergreen...and before modern lights people would place candles on it. I thought of ....

   the BRANCH and the golden oil...and the Menorah.  The helper...the gift of eternal life through His son[lights the candle of every man]


       :dontknow: maybe some of these customs/traditions are not as diabolical as some of the religions have taught.

[sheila]

pmegranates come in red,yellow pink,purple and christmas bulbs are similiar.....silver bells..also make up trimming...along with

a 'garland" of red/blue purple.

   I consider the driedel as a disguise during times of persecution as a symbol of sacred things and a teaching tool...and I can't help

  but wonder at the symbology of a tree/branch with lights/poms/bells/garlands during a season of great darkness. Somewhat

like a disguised menorah/the BRANCH of the Lord..our High Priest..with poms.bells and bordered/garland with blue/red and purple.

       co-incidence?  :dontknow: but I saw the similatude.  which I was not looking for.

[Seth]

I absolutely celebrate Christmas. However it began, it is a time to be joyful, give thanks, and remember the humble beginnings of our precious Savior. He was not born in a castle with royalty, but in a lowly stable, with no room for him in the inn. He came among us, in this manner, and, even in His birth, teaches us what is truly important in life.

I am not big on presents, but I do give some. And I never taught my children about Santa or all that......only about Jesus, and His birth. My children never got lots of toys, but only a few. And there were always lots of ways we celebrated through Church, community, friends and family, and in sharing with those who were in need, always in His name. Christmas music was always a wonderful part of Christmas for me. As a child, I loved to be in the church choir for Christmas.

I find no conflict with this, at all.

So, Merry Christmas, everyone! Be blessed.       :dsunny:

D.

"And may God bless us, every one!" - Tiny Tim

[eaglesway]

Christmas is a lot of things, some pleasant and some not so good. But to the pure all things arer pure- as in Dandelion's approach, which is similar to mine over the years. My Mom was a Christmas nut in a very good way, so I learned to love Christmas early and the music was the main testimony to Jesus in my early life (we didnt go to church).

God rest you merry, gentlemen
Let nothing you dismay
For Jesus Christ, our Saviour
Was born upon this day,
To save us all from Satan's power
When we were gone astray.
O tidings of comfort and joy,

[Dandelion]

...9And an angel of the Lord suddenly stood before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them; and they were terribly frightened. 10But the angel said to them, "Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be for all the people; 11for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord....Luke 2:9 - 11

Amen!

:girlheart:

[Graph1159]

I am not opposed to Christmas, but it's interesting to note that, in recent years in which I have evaluated many matters of faith for myself and related them to my own life, my interest in Christmas has declined. I think it is because I have gone from a faith that was "handed down" from Christian tradition to a faith that has developed from personal study and reflection on Scripture. As a result, traditions such as Christmas don't mean as much; I've found a year-round source of inspiration.

As for the pagan roots, I think it helps to think about the issue in reverse. That is, what would happen if pagans engaged in Christian rituals such as Baptism or Communion. Getting immersed in water has no spiritual significance for an unbeliever. Likewise, eating bread and drinking wine have no spiritual significance for an unbeliever. Paul warned against practicing communion carelessly, but this assumed that the bread and wine were consumed in a Christian ceremony. If done outside a Christian context, it would not mean anything. Likewise, even if pagans decorated trees or celebrated on Dec. 25, I think that such rituals lose their spiritual harm when they are taken out of the pagan context.

My family celebrates Christmas, and I like the lights and the music. I relate the Christmas themes of joy and salvation to my faith in the Victorious Gospel. However, I could be just as content during that time of year without Christmas.

As long as I still get my break from college  :laugh:

[Ross]

" I am not opposed to Christmas, but it's interesting to note that, in recent years in which I have evaluated many matters of faith for myself and related them to my own life, my interest in Christmas has declined. I think it is because I have gone from a faith that was "handed down" from Christian tradition to a faith that has developed from personal study and reflection on Scripture. As a result, traditions such as Christmas don't mean as much; I've found a year-round source of inspiration. "

Amen!!

I cannot convert anyone, but know they will learn in their own time.
The Jews had to live in Babylon for a while and not try to escape or they would die.
We currently live under the Babylonian system. Do not agree with them, but know they are there until judgment day.
Revelations refers to the Babylonian system.
So we press on as a light in a dark place.
At least christmas lights are a warm fuzzy thing.

[rosered]

 :dsunny:

  SOME WISE WORDS  :HeartThrob:

Jesus christ come to bring down BABYLON [confusion by mixing ]  in one Day  by judgments set  against  ...  the works  and lying wonders  of   the devil     , religion   riding on the beast /mankind's carnal  mindsets [seat of emotions ]  .  as His   feet / teaching   touches the earth   bringing forth    the Light of Holy Spirit and fire to melt them elements   away  from our cold and entombed hearts   !   YaY !!!expressing triumph, approval, or encouragement    :Pray:

[Seth]

I am not opposed to Christmas, but it's interesting to note that, in recent years in which I have evaluated many matters of faith for myself and related them to my own life, my interest in Christmas has declined. I think it is because I have gone from a faith that was "handed down" from Christian tradition to a faith that has developed from personal study and reflection on Scripture. As a result, traditions such as Christmas don't mean as much; I've found a year-round source of inspiration.

As for the pagan roots, I think it helps to think about the issue in reverse. That is, what would happen if pagans engaged in Christian rituals such as Baptism or Communion. Getting immersed in water has no spiritual significance for an unbeliever. Likewise, eating bread and drinking wine have no spiritual significance for an unbeliever. Paul warned against practicing communion carelessly, but this assumed that the bread and wine were consumed in a Christian ceremony. If done outside a Christian context, it would not mean anything. Likewise, even if pagans decorated trees or celebrated on Dec. 25, I think that such rituals lose their spiritual harm when they are taken out of the pagan context.

My family celebrates Christmas, and I like the lights and the music. I relate the Christmas themes of joy and salvation to my faith in the Victorious Gospel. However, I could be just as content during that time of year without Christmas.

As long as I still get my break from college  :laugh:

I see it similarly to you. To me Christmas is a secular holiday. I also see the value in remembering Christ that day, but I feel that should be on any day too. I believe that Babylon is inward. To come out of Babylon is to come out of the slavery that must be broken from the inside out.

The way I look at it is that God's commandments are to "believe in Jesus and love eachother." Anything inhibiting those commandments should be abandoned. Anything that does not, or even enhances those commandments is benign, like meat sacrificed to idols, a pagan practice.

[marie glen]

I like the traditional holidays for gathering family.. I like to listen to Christ-mass carols any time of year.. especially O Holy Night .."fall on your knees" is my favorite line :smile:

I think the babylon of 'last' days is the empire of man going global.. And I think "come out of her" is also literal [as well as metaphor of coming out of all confusion/untruth (which is "responsible for all slain upon earth")] As I think the large hail John saw in the revelation vision from Jesus, is debris.
:Peace2: :smile:

[Eduard]

I agree with you, Marie!  :sigh: :thumbsup: