What To Avoid in the Afterlife

[Abigail]

With the kind and merciful You will show Yourself kind and merciful, with an upright man You will show Yourself upright.
With the pure You will show Yourself pure, and with the perverse You will show Yourself contrary.
(Psalm 18)

[sheila]

 most likely the reason He said this   Hosea 13;7   So  will come upon them like a lion,like a leopard I will lurk by the path.

   like a bear robbed of her cubs,I will attack them and rip them open. Like a lion I will devour them

   Daniel's dream of four beasts.  Dan ch 7

[jabcat]

Paul definitely warned of judgment. Something I do not understand very well is the statement of Jesus 'I came not to judge but to save ' versus the Lord Jesus being appointed by God to judge. :dontknow:
But maybe that's another subject.

just getting back into this, too much to respond to all right now..i'll catch up later :)   

quick note if it may help somehow..maybe making the distinction between judging and condemning...Jesus said He came to save not condemn, that His Words already had/were doing that.  (at least one aspect of that might be that the Law shows us our need for the Savior?  :2c:).  Anyway, maybe none of that precludes Him from judging.  another  :2c:

[sheila]

 that's a good point,jab.   

[Seth]

Paul definitely warned of judgment. Something I do not understand very well is the statement of Jesus 'I came not to judge but to save ' versus the Lord Jesus being appointed by God to judge. :dontknow:
But maybe that's another subject.

I've wondered about that too. I suspect it's because the Greek language has far less words than English, and maybe less opportunity to use words on the basis of connotation, like "thrifty" vs "miserly."

I think it's important in those situations to look at the context where the word "judge" is being used and find out what kind of judgement we are talking about. Condemning? Thoughtful? Hypocritical? Damaging? Helpful? Truthful? Judgment can come in all those forms at different times. That could inform us as to which ways he judges and does not judge.

[Seth]

I think jabcat and I are on the same wavelength about that. I posted before reading his response.

[Cardinal]

I guess so...not putting on our sternest face and black wool suits and scream "you're gonna be bashed", but at least not always white-washing into a "everything's coming up roses" message.  Again, a lot of this is from my own thoughts as i deal with people, family, etc...I've been wondering if it's a dis-service to make it all peaches and cream.  Although I certainly think we should MAJOR on God's love and mercy for sure - just wondering if there's more of a balance, if we go in the ditch on one side of the road too much sometimes.

I woke up this morning thinking of this from J. Preston Eby;

Fire is a great cleanser, purifier, and changer. We all know that a horse must be broken, that is, its will must be broken before it is of any practical use to man. God put that will in the horse, but it must be broken and made to conform to the will of man. Just as surely did God put the will in man, BUT IT MUST BE BROKEN and we will benefit by the very process of breaking. Man may do a lot of crying and wailing, but when he is broken to HIS will, what a wonderful condition it is. God may take man over some rough places, even through the lake of fire and brimstone, but the love of God will break every man to His will. If you think the Kingdom of God is rosewater, or eau-de-cologne, you are mistaken. You cannot war on the devil with that. You cannot war on the carnal minds of men with that. You have to make war on the world, the flesh, and the devil with a sword sharper than any twoedged sword. You have to make war on the carnal mind with fire, divine fire that must burn up every inherent altar of Baal, and lick up the very dust around.

Make no mistake! OUR GOD is a consuming fire! He is man's "horse breaker" and He will break you, precious friend of mine, and bring you to the foot of the cross of Jesus no matter how hot He has to build the fire around you! Even if long ages of fiery judgment and tormenting darkness fall upon you, they will last no longer than till the Great Fire of God has melted all arrogance into humility, and all that is self has died in the bloody sweat and all-saving cross of the Christ, which will never give up its redeeming power till sin and sinners have no more a name among the creatures of God.

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/TheLakeOfFire-Eby.html

:cloud9: Amen to that..... :sigh:

[Cardinal]

Paul definitely warned of judgment. Something I do not understand very well is the statement of Jesus 'I came not to judge but to save ' versus the Lord Jesus being appointed by God to judge. :dontknow:
But maybe that's another subject.

just getting back into this, too much to respond to all right now..i'll catch up later :)   

quick note if it may help somehow..maybe making the distinction between judging and condemning...Jesus said He came to save not condemn, that His Words already had/were doing that.  (at least one aspect of that might be that the Law shows us our need for the Savior?  :2c:).  Anyway, maybe none of that precludes Him from judging.  another  :2c:

:cloud9: Try this on for size......Jesus speaking as the SPIRIT gave utterance, said I came to save and not condemn. The Word, without the quickening of the Spirit, does what it's supposed to do, ie. condemn the flesh of man. That's how it's a two-edged sword.

Ever read something and it really hit your flesh and you repented and made changes to your walk, then down the road the Lord opened your eyes to a "less judgmental" more spiritual meaning to it? The Word without the grace of the Spirit revealed condemned the flesh and because you agreed with your adversary while you were in the WAY with it,  the sting of death was removed for you. My  :2c: Blessings...

[eaglesway]

A lot of those seemingly conflicting verses are actually different Greek words being rendered the same and the same Greek words being rendered differently. The words judgement and condemnation and tribunal and discern are all very mixed up in the english translations. Krisis, krino, diakrino..... a lot of words that are worth the painstaking study to differentiate them.... and are routinely translated in inconsistent and sometimes incorrect ways.

But some of those verses, especially the ones in John explain themselves thru context.

My personal view is this.

Jesus said, "I did  not come to judge the world but to save the world".(Jn 12:47)

He also said, "You judge according to the flesh; I am not judging anyone. If I judge, my judgment is true"(John 8:15, 16)

In the first statement He is speaking of His fundamental purpose, His prime directive- to save the world. Everything else he does, including judging, discerning, correcting....... is subject to this prime directive he has from the Father- and it is because of this that His judgemnet is true.... because he judges to save and He judges only by what he has spoken from the Father and the life He lived.

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. John 3;17

He does judge, but this is not His prime purpose. His prime purpose is to draw all men unto Himself. To reconcile all by the blood of His cross. To gather all things into one in Christ. This is the directive He received from the Father, and it is God's core desire, plan, and will. He judges by the life He lived, and the words that were only the testimony of what He lived, the bread of life, coming down from heaven.

He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,(Eph 1)

He must reign until every adversary has been made a footstool for His feet. He will subject many adversaries by judgment..... but that judgment is the two edged sword of His word, which pierces the veil of lies and reveals the heart of iniquity and brings repentence because he has died for us all, the ultimate testimony of God's love, the Light.

We are the first adversaries to be pierced, judged and reconciled by the Sword of the Spirit.

And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach(Col 1)

18"He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God....(John 3)

Once we didnt believe but now we do and as the result we are passed from death unto life.

John 5:30
By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

John 12:48 The one who rejects me and does not receive my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.

Because Jesus is faithful and true, his words are manifestations of His life and His character. He is the radiance of the Father's glory and exact representaion of His nature- that's why He is the word of God. That's why he is exalted above all and has the name above every name.... because he alone went all the way for love, and that is the judgment that has come into the world, the Light that overcomes the darkness, the glorious liberty that wil eventually consume all futility and chaos like fire consumes stubble, untill All are one in Christ and God is All in All.

[sheila]

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup:...when the Lord comes to judge the earth..they people will learn righteousness.

[sheila]

 in reply to #81    yeah...but I don't think it's His will we be 'old nags' stone-bruised / lame, and long in the teeth,either. :laugh:

[dajomaco]

Paul definitely warned of judgment. Something I do not understand very well is the statement of Jesus 'I came not to judge but to save ' versus the Lord Jesus being appointed by God to judge. :dontknow:
But maybe that's another subject.

just getting back into this, too much to respond to all right now..i'll catch up later :)   

quick note if it may help somehow..maybe making the distinction between judging and condemning...Jesus said He came to save not condemn, that His Words already had/were doing that.  (at least one aspect of that might be that the Law shows us our need for the Savior?  :2c:).  Anyway, maybe none of that precludes Him from judging.  another  :2c:

:cloud9: Try this on for size......Jesus speaking as the SPIRIT gave utterance, said I came to save and not condemn. The Word, without the quickening of the Spirit, does what it's supposed to do, ie. condemn the flesh of man. That's how it's a two-edged sword.

Ever read something and it really hit your flesh and you repented and made changes to your walk, then down the road the Lord opened your eyes to a "less judgmental" more spiritual meaning to it? The Word without the grace of the Spirit revealed condemned the flesh and because you agreed with your adversary while you were in the WAY with it,  the sting of death was removed for you. My  :2c: Blessings...

:dsunny:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9:@ Sheila..... Well if He intends to use THIS old nag, He better get busy restoring, lol..... :thumbsup:

[sheila]

lol! right..huh?  this old gray mare 'ain't what she used to be"  which is good in a lot of ways..and 'not so' in other;s.  smh

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: It's true youth is wasted on the young. If I only knew then, what I know now. I could have bypassed so much of this  :bdh: , kicked his butt :icon_farao: , and done this :tongue:  to this :grave:, a lot longer.  :winkgrin:

[dajomaco]

There seams to be some comfort in thinking about the after life.
When things aren't so comfortable in the here and now.

Old spiritual songs that sing about the coming glory.

Thinking about the coming of the Lord in my life time .

Before I knew the Lord the question of after life was unsettling.
Now on good days the coming of the Lord does not seem so pressing.
On bad days, looking to the coming of the lord gives great comfort.

The hope of the afterlife can be a huge draw for those that are suffering now.
The end of suffering is the message of the cross for today.

I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that[h] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.
 

[joeteekay]

There seams to be some comfort in thinking about the after life.
When things aren't so comfortable in the here and now.

Old spiritual songs that sing about the coming glory.

Thinking about the coming of the Lord in my life time .

Before I knew the Lord the question of after life was unsettling.
Now on good days the coming of the Lord does not seem so pressing.
On bad days, looking to the coming of the lord gives great comfort.

The hope of the afterlife can be a huge draw for those that are suffering now.
The end of suffering is the message of the cross for today.

I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19 For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that[h] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.
 

:thumbsup:

[dajomaco]

The afterlife could be a fearful notion.

Somehow I think every person asks and answers the question of the afterlife.
I believe every person has a theory.
Faith is a requirement of every theory.

We as believers are in strong position (to witness) especially in the arena of faith.

Should we explain fearful things that will happen to them in the afterlife?

Should we explain glorious things that await them in the afterlife?

It seems to be so much easier to witness to those that are suffering, the glories of the afterlife.

,For me it is harder to witness to the proud of the coming judgement in the after life.

[Abigail]

Eaglesway, that makes sense to me, thank you for sharing your thoughts.

[Dandelion]

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. John 3;17

He does judge, but this is not His prime purpose. His prime purpose is to draw all men unto Himself. To reconcile all by the blood of His cross. To gather all things into one in Christ. This is the directive He received from the Father, and it is God's core desire, plan, and will. He judges by the life He lived, and the words that were only the testimony of what He lived, the bread of life, coming down from heaven.

He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,(Eph 1)

He must reign until every adversary has been made a footstool for His feet. He will subject many adversaries by judgment..... but that judgment is the two edged sword of His word, which pierces the veil of lies and reveals the heart of iniquity and brings repentence because he has died for us all, the ultimate testimony of God's love, the Light.

Amen. We have indeed obtained an inheritance......a glorious inheritance.

:iagree:

[bushy]

WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES BELIEF IN JESUS THE LAST MINUTE OF LIFE MAKE?
(This is a question I was thinking of asking on a new thread but it seems to fit here pretty well. And it fits my style better too. :declare:)

I believe we are saved from sin and death by believing in Jesus. But it is a lifelong process to be totally saved from sin and probably goes into the next life too, maybe, I don't know. What comes after this life is mostly a mystery and it's fine with me to leave it that way.

But the common teaching is that belief in Jesus makes the difference between heaven and hell. The movie 'God's Not Dead' is an example of this. I leave the room when that scene comes on where the atheist is hit by a car and repents just before he dies, which means in the movie that he now goes to heaven instead of hell. Wow, what a huge difference that made and so quickly. It doesn't make sense. But for us who believe that all will eventually be saved by belief in Jesus, what difference does it make if we believe when we are five years old or in the last minute of life? I think the earlier we believe, the better, because getting free from sin takes time. But near the end of life does it make much difference it it's one month or one minute before death?

For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;

To be conformed takes time. God's purpose is to have a group of firstfruits with the rest of the fruit, the main harvest, coming later. He is only the FIRSTBORN of MANY brethren.  I think our goal is to cooperate with Him as the work is being done in us so that we can be part of that firstfruits. Maybe everyone who comes to God in this life will not necessarily be a part of the firstfruits company but at least is a start that everyone will make some time or other. So maybe it doesn't make much difference whether someone repents the last minute of life or later in the next, but an early start in this life could be important so we have more time to reach that goal?? Of course He is the author and finisher of our faith, so when or if we come in this life is not entirely up to us, I'm thinking, because not all are called to be conformed to His image now, only those He foreknew and had chosen ahead of time.

     As for what to try to avoid in the after life, cooperate now and don't worry about it. :smile: :2c: That's just me and my 2 cents. Like I said above, I don't mind leaving the afterlife details a mystery.

[dajomaco]

I think we earn(receive the gift of) the jewels in our crown here in this life.

In the afterlife we will be able glorify Christ by throwing down our crowns before Christ.

The offering we have will be greater according to the sacrifice we make in this life.
Our heavenly rewards will be something we give to Jesus to honor him.
Some will have greater offerings to give to the Lord.
Some may suffer lose and have very little to offer to the King.

[jabcat]

WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES BELIEF IN JESUS THE LAST MINUTE OF LIFE MAKE?
(This is a question I was thinking of asking on a new thread but it seems to fit here pretty well. And it fits my style better too. :declare:)

I believe we are saved from sin and death by believing in Jesus. But it is a lifelong process to be totally saved from sin and probably goes into the next life too, maybe, I don't know. What comes after this life is mostly a mystery and it's fine with me to leave it that way.

But the common teaching is that belief in Jesus makes the difference between heaven and hell. The movie 'God's Not Dead' is an example of this. I leave the room when that scene comes on where the atheist is hit by a car and repents just before he dies, which means in the movie that he now goes to heaven instead of hell. Wow, what a huge difference that made and so quickly. It doesn't make sense. But for us who believe that all will eventually be saved by belief in Jesus, what difference does it make if we believe when we are five years old or in the last minute of life? I think the earlier we believe, the better, because getting free from sin takes time. But near the end of life does it make much difference it it's one month or one minute before death?

For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;

To be conformed takes time. God's purpose is to have a group of firstfruits with the rest of the fruit, the main harvest, coming later. He is only the FIRSTBORN of MANY brethren.  I think our goal is to cooperate with Him as the work is being done in us so that we can be part of that firstfruits. Maybe everyone who comes to God in this life will not necessarily be a part of the firstfruits company but at least is a start that everyone will make some time or other. So maybe it doesn't make much difference whether someone repents the last minute of life or later in the next, but an early start in this life could be important so we have more time to reach that goal?? Of course He is the author and finisher of our faith, so when or if we come in this life is not entirely up to us, I'm thinking, because not all are called to be conformed to His image now, only those He foreknew and had chosen ahead of time.

     As for what to try to avoid in the after life, cooperate now and don't worry about it. :smile: :2c: That's just me and my 2 cents. Like I said above, I don't mind leaving the afterlife details a mystery.

I think there's much good here bushy.

One thought about "what difference does it make..."; 

There must be some benefit from it.  I think about the thief on the cross who believed.  That was a "last minute conversion".  It must have meant something good for him, and then I think about the other guy on the other cross, what he might have been facing rather than paradise.   i of course don't know all that for sure, but I think it's worth wondering and praying about.

In this thread  http://tentmaker.org/forum/christian-life/sozo/msg189963/#msg189963 there are many things mentioned regarding what happens instantly when one believes on Jesus as Savior.  WHATEVER it all means (and we probably don't really fully know), I believe this is a major verse, and there's no mention of a time limit or time frame on the benefits;  "But to all who believed him and accepted him, he gave the right to become children of God."

[eaglesway]

I have no doubt, personally, in the total sufficiency of grace in the moment of belief. In the incident of the serpent on the stick YHWH was foreshadowing the sufficiency of Christ crucified in the destruction of the wound(healing) of the snakebite. For this reason Paul was determined to know nothing among you but Christ and Him crucified. Because of this, and the totality of grace that occurs in the moment of true faith, and the connection it grants to the True Vine, belief in the last moment of life is of the utmost sufficiency, because the blood is applied to the mercy seat and the presence of God enters behind the veil(spirit and heart)- the blood is applied to the doorpost and the death angel passes over- 

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

[jabcat]

as micah says, "well glory!"   

:thumbsup: