What To Avoid in the Afterlife

[HungerForTruth]

Good words jabcat.

[jabcat]

Good words jabcat.

thank you

searching :)   blessings.

[sheila]

Jabcat.. repent and give God the glory is an evangel of the gospel...draw near to God and He will draw near to you......

  all this has a place in the Gospel.Holy spirit give me a word of knowledge to my daughter..of an impending stern correction

coming her way..unless she clean up her act.   I told her..it went in one ear and out the other..and 3 weeks later come upon her.

   when you love people..you warn them  and give opportunity to turn from it.

   Jesus warned also...........

   the thing is...that is not all of the gospel message.  and many judas-priest hirelings have cursed those whom God has blessed...

   confused men have twisted the admonishments/twisted a version of God....those whom I love I rebuke

[jabcat]

absolutely sheila..the whole thing is slippery to me, in that I believe a pure and honest heart is required - and MOST OF ALL - truly trusting in the Lord - otherwise I think it's SO easy to mess it up one way or the other.  To be too lax, or too stern, get into condemning, bad attitudes, etc.    Look to and trust the Lord.  He has to do it through us or we'll mess it up.   :2c:

[Seth]

I think it's an interesting question, and I think it might help to look at how the gospel message was presented to unbelievers by the Apostles. Jesus presented it, but he did so according to things which were near-future, and nobody knew what he was talking about because he was intentionally mysterious. He also said, "what I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight. What I whisper in your ear, shout from the rooftops."

Maybe it would help to gather Gospel presentations directly to unbelievers from the Bible to see how it was done. An example could be found in Acts 2. Peter begins by explaining how the prophets predicted the outpouring on the Spirit and how anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. He then goes on to describe how Jesus was crucified but how God made him Lord and Messiah.

Acts 2
36 "Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah."
37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?"
38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call."
40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

I notice a couple things with this passage. One is that Peter warned and pleaded with them, but about what? "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." If he was concerned about incorporating "hell" (as Orthodoxy believes), or even with some negative afterlife experience, into his Gospel presentation, he doesn't seem to indicate that here, at least not to me. It's not to say he didn't believe in one, only that it doesn't seem to be his primary concern in how he presents the gospel. He seems to be most concerned about salvation (healing) from the corruption of that very generation, from sin and its self-damaging consequences as explained in Romans 1. And those who accepted that message were baptized, because they were "cut to the heart."

What I find interesting is that 3,000 people were added that day, with no afterlife message from Peter (at least not one I can see.) However, that doesn't mean that such warnings about the afterlife should NOT be incorporated, as the Apostles did including warnings to believers about it, such as with 2 Peter 2, 1 Thess 5, 1 Corinthians 3, for example.

But, at least in the above case, Peter's evangelizing seemed pretty successful without it. Having said that, I don't think that there is ONE way to do it, such as with the formulaic "Sinner's Prayer" which has become the standard today. Acts 2 says that "with many other words," which I take to mean that there is no single way to do it for everyone. Peter used the words he felt inspired to use.

So again, to summarize, I don't think people should feel restricted from mentioning the afterlife, but I also don't think it MUST be included or that something is missing without it.

[jabcat]

well, that's one really good incident, and i agree, looking at how the apostles evangelized would probably be a really good venture.  not all they said of course was recorded, but there should be good examples there.  also, adding in anything Jesus said about afterlife, and things Paul may have said;  sounds like a pretty big study, but should yield some good results.   :thumbsup:

I THINK it would bring us back to that place again,, "correct balance" (whatever that is  :mblush:).  I believe we do need understanding, but we also need TRUST and have Him actively working in us, and He can use us in our weaknesses/inefficiencies. 

[sheila]

 :thumbsup:  Seth..good points.   Rend your heart[circumcized heart] and not your garments[repent in dust and ashes/thinking

  flesh turned over to satan for it's destruction..that the spirit be saved on the day of the Lord[the flesh returning to the dust

and the spirit returning to God.]

  But we know if the RIGHTEOUS ONE strike me..it is even a blessing..........God takes such ones as these home early..He cuts

their time really short down here.

   

[sheila]

personally,I'd love an in depth reveiw..of this ..."Fear not man..who after killing the body can do nothing further.But fear God

who after the death of the flesh can cast into Gehenna."  I'd like to see the words in Hebrew etc too..on it.

    I will share with you what I was shown about it.

[jabcat]

 :thumbsup:

[dajomaco]

38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call."

The gift of the Holy Spirit .
There is nothing more beautiful than sharing the message of repentance to some one and they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

We have the ability to share this gift with strangers.

[Seth]

personally,I'd love an in depth reveiw..of this ..."Fear not man..who after killing the body can do nothing further.But fear God

who after the death of the flesh can cast into Gehenna."  I'd like to see the words in Hebrew etc too..on it.

    I will share with you what I was shown about it.

It's also noteworthy to me that he was addressing his disciples when he said it, beginning with "These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions"

[sheila]

daj; love that post    :HeartThrob:

[dajomaco]

well, that's one really good incident, and i agree, looking at how the apostles evangelized would probably be a really good venture.  not all they said of course was recorded, but there should be good examples there.  also, adding in anything Jesus said about afterlife, and things Paul may have said;  sounds like a pretty big study, but should yield some good results.   :thumbsup:

I THINK it would bring us back to that place again,, "correct balance" (whatever that is  :mblush:).  I believe we do need understanding, but we also need TRUST and have Him actively working in us, and He can use us in our weaknesses/inefficiencies.

I think the correct balance has to do with the leading of the Holy Spirit .
We can be led to say something to cut to a persons heart.
Said through the Spirit an act of Love .
Said through the cardinal mind something that just comes across as mean. 

[sheila]

    :thumbsup: Seth

[Abigail]

I think the afterlife was not a big part of the Gospel Message, since there were several christians in the Corinthian church that said there was no afterlife at all. Well, they said there was not resurrection of the dead (1 Cor 15) I assume that when the apostles would have preached heaven & hell they would not have come up with such thoughts?

[dajomaco]

Seth Said
Peter used the words he felt inspired to use.

Amen the most useful words are inspired words.
To pray for the inspiration of the Holy Spirit for words expressed in LOVE.

Thank you for sharing. 

[sheila]

  the Sadducees that put faith in Christ had to overcome to pre-concieved disbelief in resuurection of the dead. Paul addressed it...

   and Peter said even then they twisted and mis-construed what he said.   a faction in the congregation.

[Seth]

Continuing the study:

I found another example which does incorporate the "judgment to come:"

Acts 24
24 But some days later Felix arrived with Drusilla, his wife who was a Jewess, and sent for Paul and heard him speak about faith in Christ Jesus. 25 But as he was discussing righteousness, self-control and the judgment to come, Felix became frightened and said, "Go away for the present, and when I find time I will summon you." 26 At the same time too, he was hoping that money would be given him by Paul; therefore he also used to send for him quite often and converse with him. 27 But after two years had passed, Felix was succeeded by Porcius Festus, and wishing to do the Jews a favor, Felix left Paul imprisoned.

So, there you go, "righteousness, self control and the judgment to come." I think what this study shows is that, again, there doesn't seem to be a single correct way to do it, and results can vary of course, since all is of God.

Here is another one and this is from Peter again:

Acts 10
34 Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right. 36 You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all. 37 You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.

39 "We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a cross, 40 but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. 41 He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42 He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. 43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

I think the common thread between these passages, regardless of the end-result is the idea of "cutting to the heart." Clearly, God being the judge of the living and the dead, and the "judgment that is coming" factored into these gospel presentations. What those references MEAN is debatable but I do believe they are referring to judgment both now, and to come.

So, looking at all three passages so far, it seems to me that the common factor between them is the "cutting to the heart." I think a well-prepared heart that is already conscious of the need for salvation and is weighted down by the affairs of life could hear the Acts 2 sermon and be immediately cut to the heart. A king, or a centurion type, maybe needs to hear more about the strength of God as the final judge and the true authority in earth to cut to theirs?  :dontknow:

There are clearly mixed results also, since Felix wasn't converted but the centurion was, so there are no guarantees. It's also worth noting that they didn't have the Internet at that time, so that's probably why there didn't seem to be a standardization of the message, such as with the Nicean creed etc. I think as reading became more common, people sought to bring everything under a standard presentation, but I think the Gospel message should be individualized in terms of presentation. Initially it was meant to be heard, literally with ears, and they spoke as inspired by the Spirit. Just some observations.

[dajomaco]

There is so much a person gains from receiving the gospel message.

There is so much a person loses for rejecting the message.

I believe there are a lot of people who wonder about the afterlife.

So many reject the Christian afterlife because of the false notion of ET.

The fact that they will suffer lose (for rejecting Jesus)
but still be saved to an eternal relationship with him is hard to explain.

That is why the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the here and now is so important.

[dajomaco]

Continuing the study:

I found another example which does incorporate the "judgment to come:"

Acts 24
24 But some days later Felix arrived with Drusilla, his wife who was a Jewess, and sent for Paul and heard him speak about faith in Christ Jesus. 25 But as he was discussing righteousness, self-control and the judgment to come, Felix became frightened and said, "Go away for the present, and when I find time I will summon you." 26 At the same time too, he was hoping that money would be given him by Paul; therefore he also used to send for him quite often and converse with him. 27 But after two years had passed, Felix was succeeded by Porcius Festus, and wishing to do the Jews a favor, Felix left Paul imprisoned.

So, there you go, "righteousness, self control and the judgment to come." I think what this study shows is that, again, there doesn't seem to be a single correct way to do it, and results can vary of course, since all is of God.

Here is another one and this is from Peter again:

Acts 10
34 Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right. 36 You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, announcing the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all. 37 You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.

39 "We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a cross, 40 but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. 41 He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42 He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. 43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

I think the common thread between these passages, regardless of the end-result is the idea of "cutting to the heart." Clearly, God being the judge of the living and the dead, and the "judgment that is coming" factored into these gospel presentations. What those references MEAN is debatable but I do believe they are referring to judgment both now, and to come.

So, looking at all three passages so far, it seems to me that the common factor between them is the "cutting to the heart." I think a well-prepared heart that is already conscious of the need for salvation and is weighted down by the affairs of life could hear the Acts 2 sermon and be immediately cut to the heart. A king, or a centurion type, maybe needs to hear more about the strength of God as the final judge and the true authority in earth to cut to theirs?  :dontknow:

There are clearly mixed results also, since Felix wasn't converted but the centurion was, so there are no guarantees. It's also worth noting that they didn't have the Internet at that time, so that's probably why there didn't seem to be a standardization of the message, such as with the Nicean creed etc. I think as reading became more common, people sought to bring everything under a standard presentation, but I think the Gospel message should be individualized in terms of presentation. Initially it was meant to be heard, literally with ears, and they spoke as inspired by the Spirit. Just some observations.

:friendstu: cutting to the heart

[Seth]

There is so much a person gains from receiving the gospel message.

There is so much a person loses for rejecting the message.

I believe there are a lot of people who wonder about the afterlife.

So many reject the Christian afterlife because of the false notion of ET.

The fact that they will suffer lose (for rejecting Jesus)
but still be saved to an eternal relationship with him is hard to explain.

That is why the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the here and now is so important.

:thumbsup:

I think it's worth noting that Felix wasn't trembling at some notion of demons and fire (ala 23 Minutes in Hell) but at a God who had the power to resurrect the dead and who is the true judge. You can see from Abraham's demeanor when he bargained for Sodom and Gomorrah was of the utmost respect of our awesome God. You could call that fear, but it's not there same as what ET spreads.

Many time people were in the presence of God, who went face down trembling, God's first words are often "don't be afraid."

What I tend to say is that people who fear God probably shouldn't. Those who have no fear of God probably should.

[sheila]

  Boy o' boy..you said it,Seth...........the shepherd knows the appearance of His flock....He knows what it takes..the right word..

  at the right time.. Us..maybe not so well.  Did you ever come in on a dispute between your children...misread the situation.....

   and rebuke the wrong party? Children have this sense of justice in them....... they like balance/fairness and true judgement...

     in the law enforcement branch .....people have been known to confess to a crime they did not even commit...after being

   verbally beat with accusations long enough..

[sheila]

 the wrath of man does not work the will of God. God's wrath is different.  Proverbs 19;19 a hot-tempered man must pay

the penalty,if you rescue him,you will have to do it again.  Moses striking the rock twice instead of speaking to it.

  the nations became wrathful...then your wrath came.

[Abigail]

Paul definitely warned of judgment. Something I do not understand very well is the statement of Jesus 'I came not to judge but to save ' versus the Lord Jesus being appointed by God to judge. :dontknow:
But maybe that's another subject.

[Abigail]

'What I tend to say is that people who fear God probably shouldn't. Those who have no fear of God probably should.'

I love that!

The unhealthy kind of fear always causes me to draw back, away from the Father. That does not work out any fruit of the Spirit. It does not inspire His life and righteousness in mine, but rather stimulates the flesh to try to be better  (though I give up very soon, since I'm not so impressed anymore by the abilities of my flesh)