Which God are you serving?

[rosered]

 :dsunny:

   My sentiments exactly   Sheila ...  LOVE Covers a MULTITUDE    of sins
1Peter  4
PROOF ..    Did not Jesus   take care of many  a  multitudes   in the WORD and still is  ?

Living for God's Glory
...7The end of all things is near;


therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer.


8Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins.


9Be hospitable to one another without complaint.... :HeartThrob:

[sheila]

   beware,lest ye bite and devour[consume] one another.  Sometimes I just wonder if that is what it takes..for the sin in the flesh.carnal/beastly

   to be consumed in all of us...leaving a valley of nothing but very dry bones all scattered[thirsty/dry bones] and a voice saying

   'Come,all ye thirsty,take freely the water of life" And then He by His spirit..joins bone to bone..clothes with ligaments/flesh on,

cause to stand up..and enter the Holy city.Flesh of His flesh,bone of His bone


     O',my people..I am going to open your graves and bring you UP from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel.

  Then you,my people,will know that I am the Lord,when I open your graves and bring you up from them. I will put my spirit

in you and you will live..and I will settled you in your own land.

       Praise Christ..the anointed one..and saviour...the great grave-robber!!!!! O'death,I shall be thy plague!!

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: My  :2c:  Bones = no flesh left on them, the first veil of our flesh rent by laying all we are on the altar.

DRY bones = no spirit left, the second veil of His "flesh" (which is spirit) rent by laying down all our crowns at His feet, just like He laid down all Father had given Him at Father's feet.

Can these bones live? Yes! There can't be a resurrection until there's a death. Pick up your cross and follow Me. Blessings....

[Seth]

Before there was life, someone spoke.

[sheila]

         
           wonderful!!!!

[jabcat]

sheila and hft, I agree the "system" is in a bit of disarray.  Lots of error mixed with truth (in all of us, to varying degrees).

After several years bouncing around from close to orthodoxy, to rejection of much of orthodoxy (and accompanying bitter feelings [to my shame]), and now somewhere in between, here's where I am now;  anyone who trusts in Jesus as savior is my brother or sister.  Also, as long as someone is looking to the God who is the god of Abraham and the Father of Jesus, they're looking to the true God.  We may certainly have different levels of understanding of Him and how He works, but it's the same God/YHWH/Father.   :2c:

My own beliefs are a mixture of what might be termed in part, "calvinistic (election, security of the believer, God working all things according to His will)/Christ-centered/cross-accomplished/scripture-founded Ultimate Reconciliation of creation back to God".  (that may be why it's hard for me to label myself :).  Blessings.

[rosered]

sheila and hft, I agree the "system" is in a bit of disarray.  Lots of error mixed with truth (in all of us, to varying degrees).

After several years bouncing around from close to orthodoxy, to rejection of much of orthodoxy (and accompanying bitter feelings [to my shame]), and now somewhere in between, here's where I am now;  anyone who trusts in Jesus as savior is my brother or sister.  Also, as long as someone is looking to the God who is the god of Abraham and the Father of Jesus, they're looking to the true God.  We may certainly have different levels of understanding of Him and how He works, but it's the same God/YHWH/Father.   :2c:

My own beliefs are a mixture of what might be termed in part, "calvinistic (election, security of the believer, God working all things according to His will)/Christ-centered/cross-accomplished/scripture-founded Ultimate Reconciliation of creation back to God".  (that may be why it's hard for me to label myself :).  Blessings.

Hi James
  I agree   it is so good to  be  honest and sincere  and  mostly LOVING   towards   all   , whom ever they may be

  praying for your enemies was one of the hardest things for me at first , but it has become   so much more  less a chore   , than before

  I considered it  impossible at first , but the Lord does soften our hearts      towards  everyone when exercising this kind of faith     

I can sure hate the evil and sin  in anyone but especially within my own self   the most

  One thing for sure I will never pretend to be holy   before men   , Only God can  say whom is and whom is not  HIS   [Numbers 16]

  and I am certain many are in for a  big surprise  when God does His glorious  work  in the end


  I know the Lord Jesus said , IF it were possible even the very elect would be deceived , I know the main thing missing in the deceptive is the LOVE OF GOD IN THEM
I though of John the revelator     when He marveled    at the Great Whore of the earth Babylon     and the angel         messenger of God ''corrected ''Him

  saying
  why do you marvel   Rev 17 7And the angel said to me, "Why do you wonder? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns. 8"The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come....   
Something that looks   wonderful but full of evil doing ..


  Matt 24 ;24

...23"Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,' do not believe him. 24"For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25"Behold, I have told you in advance.

   True and LIVING GOD IS  the God of the living for all live to Him  , Jesus Christ testimony as a witness    to  all of us   Luke 20

37"But that the dead are raised, even Moses showed, in the passage about the burning bush, where he calls the Lord THE GOD OF ABRAHAM, AND THE GOD OF ISAAC, AND THE GOD OF JACOB. 38"Now He is not the God of the dead but of the living; for all live to Him."


I am thankful for Gods grace and mercy   though Jesus Christ   bringing new Life   in Himself   ,back from the dead ... :HeartThrob:

[jabcat]

I am thankful for Gods grace and mercy   though Jesus Christ   bringing new Life   in Himself   ,back from the dead ... :HeartThrob:

Hey rosie!   :thumbsup:   :dsunny:

[sheila]

 :thumbsup: Jab...and I just may be in need of hft's advice shortly......my grand-daughter was baptized apostolic...and her

  new beu is calvary apostolic..bigtime..and attending bible college in Indy. So...whole new thing for me...except as a child I won

  1st prize for bringing the most children to a children's revival at Pentecostal [won a flashlight..with 4 colours/red/yellow/green/blue!] lol!

     

[jabcat]

oh boy   :faint:

[Lazarus Short]

I just do not want to seem divisive.  A theological debate can easily get tempers going.   I do hold some theological tension in my blood it seems, so it rang true with me.

Remember that theology absorbs twenty-seven times its own weight in excess reality.

[sheila]

lol!  you guys.......smh

[Dandelion]

Well, I have not been more than 2 denominations, but I have gone from a lower-middle class, conservative Roman Catholic background, in which, I would pass a Christian Church and feel I should cross the street, so as not to be 'contaminated'; to a Lutheran Deacon; to someone who is on the board with an organization which promotes all who love Jesus to come together and celebrate in various events our joy as the body of Christ, called Jesus Alive, on LI and going to a very, very wide variety of Christian/Catholic Churches with friends, and to sell a Christian singer's CDs, from Traditional Catholic to C3 Church in Brooklyn, and many more.

So, I have learned so much more tolerance for other's beliefs. We are all on a journey. Who is to say where the road will lead us to, or what God has in store for us, on our journey, which might seem like a detour to us as humans, but to Him is the direct route to where we are supposed to be?

I see it as a mosaic, in a sense, each church reflecting parts of God, none with the entire truth, as it is hard for our human minds to comprehend God, fully, and sin and lies get in the way, as well. I try to keep my focus on God, through all of this: God lead me; teach me what I am supposed to learn from each experience; let me focus on you and not on the discord and storms; keep me in the truth, and help me to love YOUR people, with the mind of Christ.

[HungerForTruth]

Good stuff in this post hey?

[sheila]

  most certainly is! and TY! :friendstu:

[Seth]

I'd say so.  :thumbsup:

One of the things I like about what you said is how that what we believe affects us. Even if we believe in the God of Abraham, if we think he forever hates his enemies and tortures them in hell, how much easier is it for us to likewise treat an enemy?

[sheila]

D your post really reasonated with me.  last night the parable of the good samaritan come to my mind..how the priest and levite..

  due to ritual doctrinal purity..were less then helpful in Jesus ministry of salvation/redemption restoration of all men.

   one thing I've noticed..is a lot of people in these churches with such doctrinal errors....even though they be drinking some of

these poisonous doctrines...they never entered their hearts.  That there are those who have these things in their hearts..is also

true...and we know the Lord must give them a new spirit and write His royal law of love in their hearts/minds.

  we have the example of Saul/Paul..of such ones like these..who kill those whom God has forgiven and loves..and think they

are doing a service unto God.

[Seth]

As far as the "which God do you worship" question, l don't see that from a legal point of view. I do believe that the Calvinist God is a doctrinal presentation of him, the one who predestined most of the world to be tormented in hell, save for a few chosen. That doctrine does not know God for Who, he truly is, and cannot reveal him for who he truly is. I don't mean that Calvinists, cannot have their sins forgiven on technical grounds because of doctrinal issues.

If someone said that I am a racist, then they may know my hair color, my eye color, who is in family, my name, etc, but they don't know my heart, and without that, they do not yet know who I truly am. It doesn't mean that I wouldn't forgive them, but they won't know all of me until they my heart, and my nature. This is what I believe is the journey of any Christian to discover and deepen our understanding of what is in God's heart and who he truly is. None of us are perfect in that. To a degree, l believe that God has intentionally veiled that, so we will adamantly seek it and be rewarded, and part of that includes doctrinal presentations of "another Jesus," for who he truly isn't, so that we will go deeper to understand who he truly is. I believe that is the journey everyone must take, and everyone is taking. Some are further along but nobody is excluded.

[sheila]

..good word,Seth.. :thumbsup:

[jabcat]

As far as the "which God do you worship" question, l don't see that from a legal point of view. I do believe that the Calvinist God is a doctrinal presentation of him, the one who predestined most of the world to be tormented in hell, save for a few chosen. That doctrine does not know God for Who, he truly is, and cannot reveal him for who he truly is. I don't mean that Calvinists, cannot have their sins forgiven on technical grounds because of doctrinal issues.

If someone said that I am a racist, then they may know my hair color, my eye color, who is in family, my name, etc, but they don't know my heart, and without that, they do not yet know who I truly am. It doesn't mean that I wouldn't forgive them, but they won't know all of me until they my heart, and my nature. This is what I believe is the journey of any Christian to discover and deepen our understanding of what is in God's heart and who he truly is. None of us are perfect in that. To a degree, l believe that God has intentionally veiled that, so we will adamantly seek it and be rewarded, and part of that includes doctrinal presentations of "another Jesus," for who he truly isn't, so that we will go deeper to understand who he truly is. I believe that is the journey everyone must take, and everyone is taking. Some are further along but nobody is excluded.

I understand the sentiment as far as what our view and understandings might be.  No ill will to hft, I understand the main point he was making and agree with its validity.   I just personally don't like the phrase "which God?" if it's talking about YHWH and those who believe in and attempt to follow Him to the best of what knowledge and understanding they have.  He's certainly not the first to use the term, it seems to be a sort of "go-to" phrase for universalists. 

There's one true God, the God of Abraham, Father of Jesus, and if anyone calls on/believes in His Son, they will be saved.   I believe the issue is our different/veiled/erroneous understandings of Him.  Again, I understand the point - "what do you believe and how do you act, based on how you see God and what you believe about Him".      But if I personally were to say "which god do you serve", I would mean   is it YHWH, or is it satan or some pagan god who the true God calls "made by human hands with no power".   :2c:

[Seth]

I understand what you mean and I think that's why it's important to clarify. What do you think of Paul's usage of the term "another Jesus" and "another Gospel" when there really is only one Jesus and one Gospel, just as there us one Yaweh? Where does that fit into the conversation?

[sheila]

  look! Psalms 87;4  I will record Rahab and Babylon among those who acknowledge me.Philistia and Tyre,too,long with Cush-

  and will say 'This one was born in Zion"

   a little wisdom of Solomon....give the child unto her..she is the mother.

  a greater wisdom from above...Isaaih 54  future glory of Zion..v 2 enlarge the place of your tent..............

      but Zion said  'The Lord has forgotten me"....more are the children of the desolate woman..than of she that has the husband.

    Basically......Jerusalem above"s..the true Mother of the children...heart had to be manifest...........

   look! they all come to you....who bore me these?

     God called out a comapany...... a bride/wife of the Lamb company..and Mother of the children company...and her heart had to be

manifest....and He give her back her vineyards....Look! All come to you...and ye will clothe yourself with them as a bride puts

on her ornaments.    You see..better the child given unto the harlot[Babylon] then be put to death/cut into by the sword......

   

[Seth]

Yep, because those who are given to Babylon can remember Jerusalem, but the dead know nothing.

[sheila]

...it all goes back to the woman being decieved and believing the lie...until she births the promised seed...who annhilates the lie

and brings forth salvation/life to all men.

[jabcat]

That's crossed my mind and I'm not sure ("another Jesus").  Something to think about and look at context, which I haven't as yet done.  It's a good question.

s/w apart from the OP if I may, as I don't want this to seem like "picking" at hft, who made legitimate points I believe;  but a few thoughts I have; 

I certainly believe we should base what we believe on what the Holy Spirit reveals to us from scripture, and in having the most correct view of God He gives us.  Most/all of us probably pray to God for understanding/insight, even revelation. "Everyone" I've ever known in orthodoxy believed they were doing just that.  Not just willfully making stuff up apart from scripture or outright rejecting the Bible , but were looking at scripture with the best understanding they had at the time.  That included me.  I was a believer LONG before I knew any such concept of God reconciling all back to himself ever existed.  I didn't get saved when God showed me UR.  I had already trusted in His Son as my Savior.  But my view of Him needed and still needs ever sharpening.

Also, if we're not careful and put God in our own little box(es) based on OUR VIEW and UNDERSTANDING of Him - whatever that may be that He's allowed at the moment - then we can end up saying "me and my little group that understands minute doctrinal details of x,y,z are the only ones that know the TRUE God".    Which means "no Baptists truly believe on Jesus, no fill in the blank know Him, because they believe in hell".  I just have a problem with that and don't think it's scripturally tenable.  The scriptures don't say either "believe in hell and you'll be saved" or "don't believe in hell and you'll be saved".  We know Who it says believe in.  One Lord, one faith, one baptism.  YHWH and Jesus Christ His Son, crucified, resurrected.     

"Another Jesus"?   Probably something to be fleshed out, but Paul clearly taught "believe on Jesus, crucified and resurrected, and you'll be saved".  So I'm not sure exactly where it fits :).