Just believing God, God considers you righteous

[eaglesway]

"The evil one does not touch him".    John has already said in his first epistle....."If any man sins we have a propitiation for our sins..... and.... If we say we have no sin we are a liar.....and....If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins"..

This is a better translation,"We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them." NIV

We know that the person who has been born from God does not go on sinning. Rather, the Son of God protects them, and the evil one cannot harm them. ISV.

One who is born of God is struggling to overcome sin, and the evil one cannot take him/her out of the Father's hand.

They are in the world, not of it. They are overcoming the world by loving God and one another- the new commandment of Jesus.

This does not mean they do not fail, suffer loss, or stumble, or the Lord would not have made provision for forgiveness both between Him and us and between us as members of the body.

"Forgive one another".... Why? If no one ever sins?  "Confess your faults one to another"  Why? If no one ever sins?

As children of God, if we sin, we agree with God when conviction comes upon us and we confess our sin and receive forgiveness and continue to pray for grace to overcome the flesh.

My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 1 John 2:1

[eaglesway]

Seth, I am not sure what you mean by, "According to Romans 8 no one knows who they are".


I know exactly who I am, and what is available to me because of who I am- a child of God. I believe that our victory is in knowing exactly wh we are. This knowledge strengthens us against the wiles of the devil, one of which is to get us to doubt our salvation if we are struggling, which weakens us in the struggle.


Romans 8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:


This is the victory by which we overcome the world, even our faith.

[rosered]

 I love plain speech     and desire clarity  , simple    honest  , clear cut truth  in matters ..

I believe we are     two natured beings when born again by Spirit and being Spirit ...awakening  by LIGHT AND LOVE 

  and we still carry the beastly carnal nature in us    as the lower form     of intelligence    and  it  is worldly      goes by what it feels and   wants     , that is the firstborn of every one  born of woman     
one serves the other       as ''either''   '' or''   ...  selfish  or  selfless


  and it is the spiritual growth that Gods Spirit gives us to   ''get the upper hand ''  or power over  our  carnal mindedness , having the'' mind of Christ'' is   the beginning of salvation to me     and putting an end to sin....  error     wrong and negative     ways  and not    being positive   and pure and good  , loving God and  loving everyone , just as you have'' self served''' since   being born naturally      as a baby fussing to  get your own needs met    and wanting your way all the time in everything     but never ever outgrowing this stage    of your life     , staying stuck in your baby fits     ways ...

sin to me is   lawlessness     ,  but the LAW IS LOVE    , so its the lack of love      to me that  stunts Spiritual growth

  Like quenching the Spirit or speaking against the HOLY SPIRIT   , The very thing that helps you to change  your nature into ONE  PURE AND HOLY    NATURE AS GODS    HOLY ONE

LOVE    teaches and corrects and   matures     by practicing  it over and over again   , till you master it
  no one is above their MASTER    JESUS CHRIST         He took a  lot of abuse for doing good to anyone and everyone who asked  Him

and the ones whom  criticized    Him   for telling  them the TRUTH   hated Him for it and   wanted to kill him   , the very Spirit      that saves them     

  Sad   to me    just  how   much love they lacked in them          , they were wanting power  , not Love       ,  not knowing that LOVE IS THE   VERY POWER    they reject     
Obedience is a thousands times better than    sacrifice , that is  to kill the Christ /lamb , innocent one    in you    before God   to make amends for disobedience in the first place ....

    this is how I can see it plain and simple     , no fancy words or terms or ways  , its very , very personal   , when you stand and   will   bow before the Lord NO ONE  will be there to give account      for  the way you done     with the life God gave you , but you ...   

How you treated the WORD OF LIFE    and  His Holy Spirit and  one another     causing them to suffer for your  own  want and gain and selfish  ambition     with loads of chances      to make up for them mistakes ...

  Little children    have to learn what is right to do what is right     , you cannot learn if you are to  ''  smart''  to learn ..  we are to learn from our mistakes /error /sin 


   The Bible calls  leaning on your own understanding and     crafty in your own ways   and  deceiving your own heart     ,  Thinking you are above the LAW    ..

and we know that is not  the  truth ..  The Truth is the LAW    ...  and if you Love the truth , you love the law , because the Law is Love in the Highest form


  Being God Himself ..     

[Seth]

Seth, I am not sure what you mean by, "According to Romans 8 no one knows who they are".


I know exactly who I am, and what is available to me because of who I am- a child of God. I believe that our victory is in knowing exactly wh we are. This knowledge strengthens us against the wiles of the devil, one of which is to get us to doubt our salvation if we are struggling, which weakens us in the struggle.


Romans 8
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:


This is the victory by which we overcome the world, even our faith.

Very well, then make your calling and election sure. I don't claim a crown until the race is finished.

[Seth]

1 John 3
8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God's child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

11 For this is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another. 12 Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother's were righteous. 13 Do not be surprised, my brothers and sisters, if the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death. 15 Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.

[Seth]

The Bible says that false prophets will enter in but we shall know them by their fruit. Those prophets may CLAIM to from God, but the scripture tells us there's a way to discern what is claimed vs what is actual.

[rosered]

Paul said we are running a race. It's a bit early to be claiming crowns before the race is finished, imo.

I  believe the two crowns    one wears   is the crown of thorns   , that is suffering for sin    , either your own sins  or the sins of others [Taking up your cross  ,JUST LIKE JESUS done and showed us the  WAY  ]  the mockers are the ones that   make the crown of thorns  'messengers of adversity ''  in our flesh    But remembering   Gods grace is sufficient  /enough      Or  our own thorns  in the flesh are  unholy thoughts and torment and failures   , Like Peter   when He was  torn up about denying Jesus 3 times   before mankind    Matt 13 ...   the seed among thorns   are the works of mens hands and powers that be        , study on   thorns in the WORD

   
and the crown of Life is the TRUTH   , the gold    tried in the fire ,we buy of Him ]  the Golden Rule Law is to Love above all else     
  that is forgiving   and not holding   any ill against anyone for any reason ,     This is how we become pure and stay pure    /clean of wrongdoing ...

It is so much easier to say than it is to do    ,  but  all things are possible with God and by your faith  being tested   ,  that is even more precious than gold ,     is what pleases God      ...

[Seth]

the gold    tried in the fire ,we buy of Him ]  the Golden Rule Law is to Love above all else     
  that is forgiving   and not holding   any ill against anyone for any reason ,     This is how we become pure and stay pure    /clean of wrongdoing ...

:iagree:

[rosered]

The Bible says that false prophets will enter in but we shall know them by their fruit. Those prophets may CLAIM to from God, but the scripture tells us there's a way to discern what is claimed vs what is actual.

Exactly   Seth ,


What makes them false teachers ?   

  They say,,, but do not  do what is right in the Sight of God . . . Jesus said  do as they say but not as they do...   
 


Do What They Say! - Matthew 23:1-3

Then Jesus spoke to the people and to his followers. Jesus said, "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees have the authority (power) to tell you what the law of Moses says. So you should obey the things they say. You should do all the things they tell you to do. But their lives are not good examples for you to follow. They tell you to do things, but they don't do those things themselves."


False teachers  Paul compliments the Galatian believers for running a good race. Running a race was one of Paul's favorite  sayings  for ''living the Christ life''.by the Holy Spirit .


Saying,   how well they were obeying the truth  in   Gal 5 .


But we know the signs  , they  are not careful how they hear    what the Spirit is saying ...


   They do not obey the TRUTH   , they are ravenous  wolves in sheep's clothing  .     

  Eager to destroy   those   with the   TRUTH   lacking Love   !!! 

Woe woe woe        how many woes   did Jesus   say to them   exposed  false teachers,

8  woes   bringing misery on themselves and their own heads ...  note it is 3 that are of the group   , beast/ carnal ,  false prophet/liar  and adversary/accuser  slanderer  murderer    before God .   

  Matt 23 1- Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you shut up the kingdom of Heaven against men.
2- Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you devour widows' houses, and pray at length as a pretense.
3- Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.
4- Woe to you, blind guides, who say, "Whoever swears by the temple, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple, he is obliged to perform it."
5- Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith.
6- Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence.
7- Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness.
8- Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, and say, "If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets."

  the HOLY SPIRIT IS OUR TEACHER  IT IS THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH  by  the Word of God  ....     

[eaglesway]

Paul said we are running a race. It's a bit early to be claiming crowns before the race is finished, imo.

I  believe the two crowns    one wears   is the crown of thorns   , that is suffering for sin    , either your own sins  or the sins of others [Taking up your cross  ,JUST LIKE JESUS done and showed us the  WAY  ]  the mockers are the ones that   make the crown of thorns  'messengers of adversity "  in our flesh    But remembering   Gods grace is sufficient  /enough      Or  our own thorns  in the flesh are  unholy thoughts and torment and failures   , Like Peter   when He was  torn up about denying Jesus 3 times   before mankind    Matt 13 ...   the seed among thorns   are the works of mens hands and powers that be        , study on   thorns in the WORD

   
and the crown of Life is the TRUTH   , the gold    tried in the fire ,we buy of Him ]  the Golden Rule Law is to Love above all else     
  that is forgiving   and not holding   any ill against anyone for any reason ,     This is how we become pure and stay pure    /clean of wrongdoing ...

It is so much easier to say than it is to do    ,  but  all things are possible with God and by your faith  being tested   ,  that is even more precious than gold ,     is what pleases God      ...

:iagree:

[Aerex]

"The evil one does not touch him".    John has already said in his first epistle....."If any man sins we have a propitiation for our sins..... and.... If we say we have no sin we are a liar.....and....If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins"..

This is a better translation,"We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them." NIV

Ok so I guess that means that God does not prevent a child of God from sinning. What does it mean that God keeps them safe and the devil cannot harm them? There are different instances of the Bible where fallen men were given to the devil for the destruction of the flesh and yet they were still considered children of God? Right? I know I should not be reading the Bible logically but spiritually. However, it is very hard for me not to see contradictions or at least I am not getting what God is trying to say. Its not like mathematics when 1 + 1 = 2 as I wish it were

[eaglesway]

Jesus said, "I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand." Jn 10:28

I think this is what John is talking about, the evil one does not touch him.

We suffer trials. We stumble in sins. But God knows our hearts. He is the only one who knows who is struggling and who is just enjoying sin.

But you are right, it is spiritually discerned

Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away; 7 but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory; 8 the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory; 9 but just as it is written,

"Things which eye has not seen and ear has not heard,
And which have not entered the heart of man,
All that God has prepared for those who love Him."
For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, 13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words. 1 Cor 2

But that doessnt mean we should set our mind aside. The truth is, prayer and meditation are the most powerful means of understanding available to us. The Lamp of the Lord shines in us and illuminates meaning and context. As we become like little children before Him(humble, trusting) complecities resolve into simplicities- primarily that God loves us, He forgives us, and He sent Jesus to bring us home to Him.

The journey was never promised to be easy, until we take His yoke upon s, at which point the Spirit will undertake dor us in ways we could not previously conceive of.

IMO the way we take His yoke upon us is to offer ourselves to Him and trust thata He will teach us. There are times that seem like crossing a desert wilderness, when he is wasting some of the things that make us less ueseful as disciples. Those things are different in us all, but as He resolves our inner conflicts we come out of the desert knowing Him personally and deeply and able to assist someone who is also wandering in a desert land.

Sometimes He can speak a word that changes many things in a moment, a twinkling of an eye.

Always, he is loving us.

[eaglesway]

Very well, then make your calling and election sure. I don't claim a crown until the race is finished.

I dont think claiming a crown and knowing you are a child of God are the same thing. Crowns arent claimed, they are given.

"Blessed is the man who perserveres under trial for after he has overcome he will receive the crown of life"

As we perservere under trial we are given more life. (To him who has more shall be given). If we do not perservere we are still His children, but we will suffer loss, such as losing ones reward but being saved as through fire- the fire being the sowing and reaping consequences of not enduring that which is sent to perfect us(be not amazed if a great diversity of trials comes upon you, it is for the perfectingof your faith, the trial of your faith is more precious than gold tried in the fire).

One more trip around the mountain so to speak :o)

I like Peter's saying.... After you have suffered a little while God Himself will also strengthen, confirm and establish you.

For me, knowing I am His child, that He will never leave me or forsake me, is the foundatinal assurance that grace has given me to stand on. Defensive weapons against the arrows of the adversary, the accuser of the brethren. The shield of faith. The helmet of salvation.

[Seth]

I dont think claiming a crown and knowing you are a child of God are the same thing. Crowns arent claimed, they are given.

Well essentially both are given, but those who recieve the crown are chosen before hand to succeed so that at the end of the race, God can reveal that is was by his grace, not their own power that they received it.

At the end of the day for me, anyone can claim they are a child of God, but the Bible defines them through their fruit. In other words, just because someone says they are, doesn't make it so.

[eaglesway]

For instance, the adversary may say, "God doesnt love you, you did or do that or whatever."

The reply being(agree quickly with thine adversary lest he deliver you to the judge and the judge deliver you to the bailiff), "I did do that and I do this, but I confess this before Him, He forgives me, and I will overcome by His grace."(If we confess our sins He is faithful to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness)

The strength to overcome rises out of confidence in God's love and good will towards us, even if we are failing.

12If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us; 13If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

I would paraphrae, or amplify the above verse like this.....

If we perservere we will reign in life, having received the crown of life.... if we hold back(our souls) from Him, He will hold back(righteousness peace and joy in the Holy Spirit) from us, if we are faithless(inconsistent, lacking commitment, fearful) He will not be so towards us, because He is love, and He cannot stop loving us.

[Seth]

The reply being(agree quickly with thine adversary lest he deliver you to the judge and the judge deliver you to the bailiff), "I did do that and I do this, but I confess this before Him, He forgives me, and I will overcome by His grace."(If we confess our sins He is faithful to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness)

Yes this is key. I agree.

[eaglesway]

Sure Seth, but we arent talking about "anyone can say they are a child of God".

We are talking about, "Can a child of God know that he is one and rest in that assurance"

I think Paul assures every child of God that they can, by the Spirit of adoption that cries out from their heart, "Daddy, Father", in Romans 8.

[Seth]

Yes I agree

[eaglesway]

Is this called skip posting, lol   :skittles:

[Seth]

 :laughing7:

You were looking for any reason to use that emoticon.

[eaglesway]

  :laugh:

[Aerex]

But that doessnt mean we should set our mind aside. The truth is, prayer and meditation are the most powerful means of understanding available to us. The Lamp of the Lord shines in us and illuminates meaning and context. As we become like little children before Him(humble, trusting) complecities resolve into simplicities- primarily that God loves us, He forgives us, and He sent Jesus to bring us home to Him.

The journey was never promised to be easy, until we take His yoke upon s, at which point the Spirit will undertake dor us in ways we could not previously conceive of.

IMO the way we take His yoke upon us is to offer ourselves to Him and trust thata He will teach us.

With all due respect, it sounds like a work thing and I don't see grace in any of this. I get that prayer is a powerful thing but it is still a work you have to do. Also, it sounds like we have to make the first step before God changes us. I just don't see how a despicable and evil men like myself would do do any of the things that you have mentioned. The Bible says that Christ will draw all men onto himself. So is it God that causes us to take his yoke, God that causes us to pray and meditate, God that causes us to not sin. Or is that we his yoke or we pray and meditate and we do not sin. Where exactly is God's power in all of this? Can't someone boast when they say I prayed and mediate a lot and that is why I understand or I took his yoke upon myself that is why I have the Spirit with me?

[Dandelion]

To Aerex:

This is the way I picture it, sometimes.

God is knocking at the door of our souls. We can choose to open the door or not. It is a choice we make, not a work we do. As a Lutheran, I was taught, we can only fulfill that, with the help of the Holy Spirit, as we are dead in our sins, and can do absolutely nothing good, on our own, but say'no'.

Once we open the door, we have allowed God entrance into our will. We can surrender all, or part, as well. For all of us, there are areas of our life, that are very hard to let go of our control of, IMO. As if we really knew what we were doing, anyway! This, as I see it, is one of the hardest things for us to do, as humans, but, in a sense, it is really all we can do, without God's strength, for if we allow Him to be at the helm of our lives, then we will do His will. I also believe that it is a tussle, all of our lives, because as humans, we always will inch our way to try to take back some of the control. I believe sin is when we don't do God's will. And I believe we will always struggle with this, as sons and daughters of Adam and Eve: to give up our own desires and wants, in exchange for His.

I look at faith as the 'seed' that allows God into the 'front door' of our lives. Trust then becomes the giving over of all the various aspects of our life, to Him, because we come to acknowledge that He, and not us, can and will do a 'better job' of directing our paths. We come to realize that we will truly be who we are and were meant to be, when we surrender to Him. And, He pours out His grace, continually, to help us and give us His strength, for, we don't have it, on our own, to do His will.

We can do 'good works' then, but not of our power or will, but of His.

"I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing." John 15:5

In a way, we just have to not say NO to God. He is knocking and asking all the time, to enter every one of our lives. We just have to leave the door open!

This is my favorite Bible quote:

Proverbs 3: 5 - 6

5Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding. 6In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He will make your paths straight....

Hope you enjoyed my analogy, Aerex!

:gsmile:

[ed]

With all due respect, it sounds like a work thing and I don't see grace in any of this.

Grace is favor.  It is given from someone, it is either merited or unmerited.  The giver of grace can set stipulations for the receiving of the grace or grace can just be given because that is the way the giver is.

Parents favor their children.

God did not ask any of us if it was ok to send his Son as an example of His love.  God favored us all with the way to heaven(present heaven), in His son Jesus Christ.  The grace was set before the foundation of the world, non of us can earn that.

I get that prayer is a powerful thing but it is still a work you have to do.

It can be for sure.  Many do take pride in their prayer life, I'm not saying you are wrong.

When I pray, "God I just don't understand", I'm coming to a place where I believe answers are because I am humbled by my circumstance.  I can't glory in the fact that I need some help and went to a place where it was provided.  I'm a beggar,  But God stands me up and says that this grace was always there for me........I am compelled to love God for His love, and not my searching.

Also, it sounds like we have to make the first step before God changes us.

I can just go back to my first finding of this grace.  I was confused, and filled with many questions and fear.  The first step was always there............God set it in motion.  My step was as a hurt child looking for help.  I was pushed the point of asking for help and healing, and I was set up for that.  That is the way that I was made by the condition of the world, my environment, and everything that drove me the point of asking for help.  I can take no glory for being a helpless being in a rough world.
Again God saved(healed) me over much time.

I just don't see how a despicable and evil men like myself would do do any of the things that you have mentioned.

You are not a despicable and evil man, you are a man who is seeking answers.  God did not make man despicable and evil, and he does not see man as despicable and evil.  Sure, sin was in the world from the beginning, it was set up that way.  You are identifying yourself with the sin instead of the man who desires to do good.  The will is in you to do good, where did that come from?  Were you born with it?  Is it in all men? 

The Bible says that Christ will draw all men onto himself. So is it God that causes us to take his yoke, God that causes us to pray and meditate, God that causes us to not sin.

Yes it is God. How so?  We are thinking beings, created for fellowship with our creator.  "Taking the yoke" was offered to a tired, haggard, bunch of abused children.  We take a yoke because we believe that it will help us to be what we want to be.  We unite with something that is pleasing to us.

There is always the temptation to take credit for being so spiritual.  Taking credit is falling short of the truth though.  The truth is that it was there for us when we needed it, and we were brought to the place of desiring it. 

I got tired of Christianity and walked away from it, I was brought back to the place of desiring it again

The story of the prodigal comes to mind.  When the son desired to walk away, his desire was granted.  When the son desired to come back, broken, and worn, he was welcomed back with full sonship.

Or is that we his yoke or we pray and meditate and we do not sin.

Sin is something that we need healed of.  Falling short or missing the mark is not pleasurable, but we do it often and well.  I don't go to the place of healing because I am so smart, I go there because I am in need.

Where exactly is God's power in all of this?

God healed us, and that is all His glory and desire.  How hard are we pushed?  I 'm being pushed right now in an area that I don't know if I'm able to endure it...............but I know where the power to endure is.  My experience gives me hope, that even in this new struggle, the place of God's power, the simplicity of faith, will yield the reward of victory.  "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me".

Can't someone boast when they say I prayed and mediate a lot and that is why I understand or I took his yoke upon myself that is why I have the Spirit with me?

Yes they can and often do.  That is not the nature of the truth. When pride comes to us as it often does, a wake up call is not far behind..........pride comes before the fall.  That is all in the loving discipline of our Father.  We learn to thank God for our pride trips and the discipline that brought us back to where the true fruit is.

[rosered]

 
I love what you    alll  shared with Aerex .
  and that could be and  would  apply to anyone of us  .

  For me  , Just having Aerex  here was  Gods own doing for  Aerex own benefit    . 
He loves you  Aerex  ........

What drawed you to come here   Aerex ?

The Awesome thing is we will all know ,  just how very much  in the end

Some   are just   ''getting glimpses''   now ...

I am so thankful  for my brothers and sister in Christ
  and you are among them all  Aerex       ..