Just believing God, God considers you righteous

[jabcat]

just a quick little note i was thinking of last night, and i see others have addressed as well. 

We've been talking about believing in Jesus, the devils believe, etc., whether just believing is enough.

   I believe the difference is mental assent or acknowledgment, vs. the miracle of being drawn by the Holy Spirit (personally invited) and being given the faith of Jesus to trust Him as the SAvior.  As John said, and others have indicated, having a true EXPERIENCE that is saving, direct, personal.  Faith that makes a difference!  Faith - His faith - that works.  In us.   EW/John said " salvation is by grace through faith. IT IS AN INTRODUCTION INTO A RELATIONSHIP."     I believe many people (and the devils) will say yes, Jesus died and rose again. Even "we've done miracles in His name".   But they've not been given the divine appointment to have saving faith.  They've yet to be invited and enabled by the Holy Spirit (we can't do it ourselves)  "No man comes to the Father except the Holy Spirit DRAW him). 

The scripture says but to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.  We simply cannot do that without the Holy Spirit guiding it, making it so, when it's each person's time.  Until then, there can either be total disbelief of the atheist or of some other religion, or maybe some kind of mental acknowledgment about Jesus, running the spectrum in between.  But until the Holy Spirit enables the receiving of Christ (the personal, individual becoming a new creation, passing from death to life, being made a child of God instead of a child of the devil ONLY by the new birth from the FREE GIFT of grace, we're still dead in our trespasses and sins.  That's at least what I'm meaning when I talk of belief/being saved.   :2c:

Then of course I believe there are continuing works of salvation (healing), growing, maturing, overcoming and being delivered from sin, ending in what Paul says, "to wit, the  redemption of our body [immortality]".

[Seth]

  :2thumbs:  :dsunny:

Beautiful, John. I agree

[jabcat]

good, thank you.  praise God.   :HeartThrob:

[eaglesway]

EW I think it was the same ones John the Baptist said..'ye offspring of vipers! who showed you.....therefore produce fruit

   in keeping with repentance.{Parisee;s/Sadducees]  the religious leaders who heaped up heavy loads under the

  law impossible to bear..but were not willing to lift their little finger to lighten the load.  the ones of whom He said..

  'do all that they say..but don't do as they do..for they say and do not"  they didn't do what they told the people to do

  but they had no problem condemning/judging the people with iniquity[cheating scales]

   not many of you should be teachers

Right, exactly. And everyone one of them would have said they 'believe' in the tenets of the faith delivered by Moses. I think we have some Pharisees like that today, in Christian religion, where they believe the right facts(do as they say) but did not have the right heart(do not do as they do)....

"Therefore bring forth fruit in keeping with repentance".

Interesting He says "Bring forth"

The scribe in the kingdom of God brings forth treasures new and old"

No one can bring forth other than what God has given them. But the place where we as James said, "Draw nigh unto God and He will draw nigh unto you" is, I think, repentance. There we go back t, "To him who has more shall be given, to him who has not even what he has shall be taken" Speaking(I think) of a humble seeking heart.

A humble seeking heart may be in bondage- He came to set captives free and heal broken hearts and open blind eyes- a righteous man falls 7 times but the Lord raises him up.

Lord have mercy on me a sinner- accepted

Lord I am so glad I am not like that guy, I do all the right stuff- rejected

It is a crooked road only Jesus can make straight, a high place only he can level, a valley only he can raise.

[Aerex]

Excuse me but I still don't understand the difference. How does one know that he or she is saved? Even religious and atheist can show good fruit and it can't merely be what we believe because everyone believe in something differently. I don't think it is right to say well if you don't believe in everything that I believe then you are not a Christian.

[Tom]

"If ever you should be avowing with your mouth the declaration that Jesus is Lord, and should be believing in your heart that God rouses Him from among the dead, you shall be saved." (Romans 10:9)

http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheEvangel/BelievingAndUnderstanding.html

[eaglesway]

Excuse me but I still don't understand the difference. How does one know that he or she is saved? Even religious and atheist can show good fruit and it can't merely be what we believe because everyone believe in something differently. I don't think it is right to say well if you don't believe in everything that I believe then you are not a Christian.

Its right there in the verse Tom posted. Believing in your heart. :o)

But it isnt so much about what we believe(details), its who we believe in. Jesus, Lord and Savior, knowing Him and being connected to Him.

[Aerex]

Ok so ETers believe in their heart that Jesus is Lord and God raised h from the dead but we all know that hell is a lie. Are they saved even though they believe in a lie?

[eaglesway]

Being saved, is knowing Christ. We all stumble in many ways. We grow in salvation through our interaction with this Christ we know, and while what we believe has an effect on shaping what we know of Him, knowing Him is the core issue of "being saved", which is being connected to Him, which comes by believing in Him.

Looking at believing in a relational way, rather than in a mental way is the core issue I think.

If we say we believe but do not respond to His teaching, one could question if that is true belief, but many have been bound in religious confusion by the systems of world religianity. As Jesus said to the Pharisees,

"You have the keys but you will not enter and you refuse to let others enter"- this is the work of most organizational church leaders in the world today- to preserve their organization and personal standing in it- at the cost of serving their flock by seeking the truth.

I believe their judgment for that will be severe, but only God knows which of them is a believer building wood hay and stubble and which of them are wolves in sheeps clothing.

So if being saved is about a relationship with Jesus Christ through the Father, being confused about a doctrine about which the "churches" have pounded into people for 1500 years is not something that completely prohits a relationship with Jesus.

One may still see Him. His love. His sacrifice. His power and glory. His resurrection and ascension.

This whole "saved or not" theology is out of an ET paradigm constructed to intimidate people into submission to church doctrines and authority. in particular Catholicism, but also the early Protestants- such as Calvin, Luther, Knox- men who tortured and killed people for disagreeing with them. IMO they were simply ideologues and religionists.

The word saved simply means healed and delivered.

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved"

"Be believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be healed and delivered" would be a better translation, imo.

[lastpost]

Hi Aerex ,

Yes, a process. I was set ablaze in more ways than one when the Spirit taught me about the Love of God through the Love of Jesus Christ - this was by the Spirit, not the Bible.

One way was by the flame that was set alight with my astonishment, awe, reverence and, yes, loves for the Wisdom and Divine Love of a God who was so sensitive and caring. I have found one cannot honestly learn of the Saviour as He is, and not be drawn to Him.

Another way I was set alight was by the flame which always burnt painfully when I found myself betraying my higher Self, the Christ Part - (He is all-Purity)

It is probably the same flame. I do not say of myself: "I am saved" as it is too closely aligned with the Christianity which I feel separates itself from the humanity Jesus came to save. I know that I am a sinner - and for recognition of that I am truly grateful, it is because of Jesus Christ.

Anyway, may I pass on something which I discovered which you can of course ignore. The Bible is full of Spirit Power, so when a person reads it or hears it, the spirit within responds to it.

There are many different characters in this world and they do not all think alike.

When a person studies the Bible, they find the reflex of their own mind in it, and it becomes "right" for them and they experience Spirit Power which convinces them. You may notice that a person can change their belief, this is because they have changed.

May I suggest that you keep the highest ideal of Divine Love in your heart and mind, and God willing, you may find Jesus Christ and avoid the many teachings of men.

Peace and Progress.

[Seth]

Yes, salvation means to be delivered, to be healed. How did the Jews know they were delivered from Egypt? If you cut your heel on a pop top, how do you know if it is healed? Peter said to recieve the Spirit and be saved, healed, delivered from this wicked generation. So how do you know if you have been delivered, or healed?

2 Cor 13
5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

6 But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

7 Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.

[rosered]

Hi Aerex ,

Yes, a process. I was set ablaze in more ways than one when the Spirit taught me about the Love of God through the Love of Jesus Christ - this was by the Spirit, not the Bible.

One way was by the flame that was set alight with my astonishment, awe, reverence and, yes, loves for the Wisdom and Divine Love of a God who was so sensitive and caring. I have found one cannot honestly learn of the Saviour as He is, and not be drawn to Him.

Another way I was set alight was by the flame which always burnt painfully when I found myself betraying my higher Self, the Christ Part - (He is all-Purity)

It is probably the same flame. I do not say of myself: "I am saved" as it is too closely aligned with the Christianity which I feel separates itself from the humanity Jesus came to save. I know that I am a sinner - and for recognition of that I am truly grateful, it is because of Jesus Christ.

Anyway, may I pass on something which I discovered which you can of course ignore. The Bible is full of Spirit Power, so when a person reads it or hears it, the spirit within responds to it.

There are many different characters in this world and they do not all think alike.

When a person studies the Bible, they find the reflex of their own mind in it, and it becomes "right" for them and they experience Spirit Power which convinces them. You may notice that a person can change their belief, this is because they have changed.

May I suggest that you keep the highest ideal of Divine Love in your heart and mind, and God willing, you may find Jesus Christ and avoid the many teachings of men.

Peace and Progress.

  Amen !!!

  Before    I learned better,  I would just stew and talk to God ,when the  book was sealed     , and it  seemed like a different language to me .


  than , I got   to where I would just open the bible   up  randomly , and it SPOKE to my heart    ,  just said exactly where i  was at and how to   deal with it    , by His own    standard

  I felt much better  and  just kept trying and not giving  up     
I fail but JESUS NEVER FAILS !!! EVER  I had to actually learn that   first and experience it before   , I understood it .....  as growing pains ..

  and becoming a spiritual being  instead of just flesh and blood ...

[rosered]

Yes, salvation means to be delivered, to be healed. How did the Jews know they were delivered from Egypt? If you cut your heel on a pop top, how do you know if it is healed? Peter said to recieve the Spirit and be saved, healed, delivered from this wicked generation. So how do you know if you have been delivered, or healed?

2 Cor 13
5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

6 But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.

7 Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates.

I have considered  that a part of me is reprobate     Seth and yet there is a part of me that I know belongs to GOD

I thought of the 1/3  of the   Revelation passage      that  lets me know that a remnant  will be saved       and the part removed     , like you say the heel   
  will have to be regenerated  by the Lord Spirit and  saving grace     

  For me until its all very personal   , and in your face type      saving  , its always another      person another Jesus another day and another life

I believe this is truly where the churches error
  saying'' they as a whole are saved''   and the world is   pure evil   , not knowing anyones hearts or motives    and throwing the  baby out with the bath water  types

   when you love God and everyone as yourself  , you are dealing with yourself according to GODS STANDARD  IN HIS WORD   and measure this     out as to say ,    would you want anyone to suffer   like you have>?

Because you had to learn the  hard way  though a fiery trial      and they could  learn saving  grace by the   sharing  and caring hearts of witnesses who just went though that battle and lost     or  how they got the victory though Jesus by helping them    stay safe   in Jesus

  the WORD is full of examples and we have our own witness   as well     ,  no one comes though this life unscathed    and touched by death in some sort of way   
  even little ones whom die     at birth have experienced death   already    and   that is for everyone born mortal   

  we have to learn what is mortal is corrupt by nature   

and what is Spirit has that power to defy death   though Jesus Christ already ...



     

[Aerex]

Interesting. I know Paul says that you must examine yourself but I don't trust myself. So I am guessing there is no solid proof that you really do have a relationship. Perhaps of toy see some changes in your life  I guess you have a relationship with Jesus. Maybe I don't know what a relationship with Jesus looks like because it looks differently with every person. My appogies if I sound hard headed but these are some of my thoughts that do come to mind.

[Tom]

Ok so ETers believe in their heart that Jesus is Lord and God raised h from the dead but we all know that hell is a lie. Are they saved even though they believe in a lie?

Bro, none of us knows everything because we're all just imperfect humans. We're blessed by the revelation of the word of God even though some poor folks haven't gotten hold of an accurate translation yet. The point is that God chose us to be saved in Christ for eonian life before the disruption of the world, before we were even here, and before we believed anything. So our salvation isn't lost if we don't understand the full scope of the evangel. I believe all my brothers and sister here on the forum are saved, but you can see that we all have different and sometimes contradictory perspectives on various things. Misunderstanding some doctrine doesn't condemn anybody.

"Nothing, consequently, is now condemnation to those in Christ Jesus. Not according to flesh are they walking, but according to spirit, for the spirit's law of life in Christ Jesus frees you from the law of sin and death." (Romans 8:1,2)

It's actually very understandable that most people misunderstand the whole story presented in scripture because the church has intentionally confused it through forgery in the translation of the ancient manuscripts because it saw that it was unsuccessful at suppressing scripture by torturing and killing people with fire just for reading scripture. The institution that supposedly represents Christianity in the world today is a counterfeit for the ecclesia that is nothing more than systematized deception, but, unfortunately, most of the world thinks it's legit.

The great thing about knowing the truth of scripture is knowing that God loves all mankind and will eventually save all mankind from sin and death even though there is a select group that has been chosen to be alive during the last two eons to minister in the celestial realm. We who have been chosen aren't perfect. We're simply justified in Christ. We still mess up in life because we're still living in our flesh infected with sin, but there's no condemnation for us. We should enjoy reading scripture to be edified and be able to defend the faith, but we forget stuff and misunderstand stuff sometimes. And most of us here still have a crazy experience with church doctrine that we have to try to forget about all the time when we're trying to understand scripture. That ain't easy especially if you were raised in the church like many of us were, but the good thing is that an accurate translation of scripture has the truth in it. So, if you just read it everyday, your mind starts to see the light, and things become more clear.

I was raised in the Roman Catholic Church which I left when I was young. I wasn't familiar with scripture until years later when I became convinced that it really is inspired. Even then I read the King James Version for many years which distorts the truth through inaccurate translation. It wasn't until I became aware of universal reconciliation and then the better translations that all the things that used to bug me that the church didn't have answers for became clear. I think the best thing you can do to help you get you head straight is read an accurate translation of scripture everyday, and pay particular attention to Paul's epistles because they teach you all about the grace of God which is important because that's the era we're living in today. Here's a link to the most accurate translation of scripture that I know of.

http://concordant.org/online/index.html

And here's a link to a page on the publisher's site with a lot of helpful information.

http://concordant.org/expohtml/index.html

[eaglesway]

Interesting. I know Paul says that you must examine yourself but I don't trust myself. So I am guessing there is no solid proof that you really do have a relationship. Perhaps of toy see some changes in your life  I guess you have a relationship with Jesus. Maybe I don't know what a relationship with Jesus looks like because it looks differently with every person. My appogies if I sound hard headed but these are some of my thoughts that do come to mind.

No need to apologize at all, and you have a good point, it looks differently, even works differently with every person.

A key word is believe. It is faith, and it is "out of the ordinary, supernatural". As faith grows, out hearts become more secure in the love of God and the reconciliation that was provided for us by Jesus Christ.

But I can say this, our not being sure does not mitigate the security of His love for us. He loves you for sure, and the suffering of Jesus is the measure of that love for you- so even if you are troubled by doubt, you can rejoice in the assurance that God loves you, and Jesus died for you, individually, as well as for the whole world- and if you seek Him in time your relationship with Him will grow in your own unique experience

[Seth]

Interesting. I know Paul says that you must examine yourself but I don't trust myself. So I am guessing there is no solid proof that you really do have a relationship. Perhaps of toy see some changes in your life  I guess you have a relationship with Jesus. Maybe I don't know what a relationship with Jesus looks like because it looks differently with every person. My appogies if I sound hard headed but these are some of my thoughts that do come to mind.

ETers tend to take salvation as this lump thing. Saved from hell or not saved from hell. That's how I was taught to view it. But I see Paul speaking differently when he talks about salvation.


"At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another." Titus 3:3

"As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient." Ephesians 2:1-2

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." 1 Cor 6:9-11

Now to that last scripture, Paul defined the kingdom of God as righteousness peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. That's why we cannot inherit righteousness peace and joy when we engage in those listed things. This is why I think James talked about the completion of our faith through the works of abandoning those things.

I don't know that the concept of faith brought to completion, or maturity, is even discussed in ET theology, and James 2 is pretty much ignored as far as I ever knew. I see faith as a seed. It brings initial benefits, but like any seed, it's only of any use if it is brought into completion or maturity. What good is a seed if you plant it, but nothing grows?

[Tom]

Interesting. I know Paul says that you must examine yourself but I don't trust myself. So I am guessing there is no solid proof that you really do have a relationship. Perhaps of toy see some changes in your life  I guess you have a relationship with Jesus. Maybe I don't know what a relationship with Jesus looks like because it looks differently with every person. My appogies if I sound hard headed but these are some of my thoughts that do come to mind.

Don't trust yourself because Satan can deceive you. Trust God.

"Trust in Yahweh with all your heart, And do not lean to your own understanding." (Proverbs 3:5)

Jesus is the word of God, the only-begotten son of God, and the image of God who represented God to the world when he walked the earth preaching love. I think the best way to know what a "relationship" with him is like is what God gives us as our first experience of unconditional love in this world, and that's a mother. God provides everything you need because "God is love." (1 John 4:8,16) We can't see God because he's invisible, and we can't see Jesus like people did when he was on earth because he's gone to be with the Father. But you can talk to God just like you do to anybody else you have a "relationship" with. That's what prayer is, not some formal memorized words written by somebody else. God's not angry with you. God is conciliated with you through Christ and wants you to be conciliated with him. When you are, there will be reconciliation. Eventually all on earth and in the heavens will experience that. It seems the only thing that is keeping you from knowing that you have a "relationship" with God is the fact that there is a one sided conversation going on between you two. So why don't you try to tell God what's on your heart? I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by the result.

[Seth]

I realized I didn't say exactly what I was trying to get across in my last post. I want to simplify it.

Paul lists several items in connection with salvation: "All kinds of passions and pleasures," malice, hating, envy foolisheness...

The church teaches salvation largely from the perspective of one thing: hell

So when someone says, "is an ETer still saved, even if they believe a false Gospel" my reaction is, saved from which one of those things Paul listed? Hating? Malice? Foolishness? All kinds of passions and pleasures? I can honestly say that I have been saved from some things outright. Other things I am still walking out of Egypt.

I would say, ETers are not saved from the false doctrine of hellfire, yet. They are still waiting be delivered from a false doctrine that does them great psychological and emotional harm. However, an ETer might be saved from malice, or envy or passions and pleasures.

I no longer view salvation from the lump-sum aspect I was once taught, so whenever someone asks if they are saved, my first reaction is, from what?

[Tom]

I agree that being saved can be thought about different ways because God is the savior of all mankind, but only believers are saved from the coming indignation. All will eventually be saved from death, but only believers are saved for eonian life. I know we have different concepts of what eonian life means though, bro. I also believe you can be saved from various things in life like addiction or obsession of any kind or maybe a disease. But I think when Christian Evangelicals ask if you're saved, they're referring to being saved for eonian life even though they're thinking eternal life, and, like you said, they're also thinking saved from what they think "hell" is. I think it's strange when somebody asks when you were saved because that could be interpreted several ways too. You could say before the disruption of the world; when cross died on the cross; when you first remember believing; or even when we get snatched away to meet Christ in the air. I don't think the so called sinner's prayer does the trick even though that's the popular method. I also think we believe because we're saved, not saved because we believe. I think our belief, or faith, is a gift from God, not something we earn by saying the sinner's prayer or by doing anything else. I think any works we do are a manifestation of our belief not a means to our salvation. I know that's not quite how you see it though.

"For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present, not of works, lest anyone should be boasting." (Ephesians 2:8,9)

[Seth]

Yes I agree, they are isolating the concept of salvation to one thing. I do believe in a coming wrath after this life but I associate it with Romans 1 wrath so to me it's different sides of the same coin, only each to his order. But that's a whole different conversation.

[eaglesway]

Basicly, I think the gospel is and should be fairly simple. Parables unfold mysteries hidden from the foundation of the world, but only to those who have eyes but to not see- essentially those who complicates things to much(like me sometimes :o) For little children( Let the little children come unto me....You must become as a little child to enter the kingdom of God), He makes known the secrets of the kingdom as needed, by His Spirit.

There is a wisdom we speak among the mature, but as far as introducing the good news to unbelievers and newborn babes it should be relatively simple.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.

"What does it mean to believe."

If you confess Jesus Christ as Lord(which includes bowing before His Lordship) and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead you shall be saved. You will become a citizen of the kingdom of God, a child of God.

God loves everyone. God loves you. He sent Jesus to save the world.

"Save from what".

From our tendency to live for ourselves and treat others poorly, from our lusts and pride and blindness and brokeness. To be saved means to delivered from this world and to be healed and filled with love for God and man. From the emptiness and futility of this vain existence you see around you- and to be saved from death. As you follow Jesus, that healing will grow into wholeness, peace and joy and you will be a light in the darkness.

'What do I have to do?"

Talk to the Father and the Lord Jesus. Learn to walk with them. He will bring experiences, trials, lessons to teach you who He is and how you can serve Him, and your loved ones, and your neighbors. Believe in the Lord Jesus and His love for you.

"What about my sins".

God has forgiven you, and He will give you grace to overcome.

"What if I can't"

God loves you. He still forgives you. Just be honest with Him and humbly ask for deliverance and healing, and tho it may seem hopeless at times, He will help you and change you. If you ask He will give you wisdom, love and power.

"I don't understand the Bible."

Understanding will come in time, if you read, and ask Him to teach you, He will send the Holy Spirit to help you understand and grow in grace. He will send help in different forms. New friends, other believers.

"What is grace".

It is the love God gives us freely because He loves us as we are. It is the ability to become something more than we were.

_________

IMO, it is fairly easy to see if someone has connected to Jesus, and reasonably easy to know Him, and to commune with Him. That is the point. Communing with Him. It is not always easy. Sometimes very hard. But He is faithful and even if we fail,He will heal us and work with us.



I don't want to go to hell.

Jesus delivers those who believe from the judgment of the wicked, despite their failures- faith in Him is sufficient. No one will go to hell, because hell is a lie, but there will be time of correction for those who have rejected Him and persisted in evil in this life- things of which the Bible does not give all the details, but things certainly to be avoided. Trust in His love and you will need not fear judgment. Perfect love casts out all fear. The more you experience the love of God in Christ, the less you will fear anything.

Jesus will eventually heal and deliver everyone, "He said, "If I be lifted up from the earth I will draw all men unto me", but there is an easy way and a hard way. Better to follow Him than to find out the details by experience.

Jesus said, "Behold, I am making all things new", and Paul the apostle said, "Evry knee shall bow and every toungue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father."


Now, that was off the cuff. But really, I dont want to go any further than that until I know I am ministering to a believer, who wants to be a disciple. Once that is determined, the foundations of our faith can be laid, gently, with patience, in due time. Whatever we might disagree about, as far as I am concerned these are the essential things. The pure milk of the word.

[Tony N]

Excuse me but I still don't understand the difference. How does one know that he or she is saved? Even religious and atheist can show good fruit and it can't merely be what we believe because everyone believe in something differently. I don't think it is right to say well if you don't believe in everything that I believe then you are not a Christian.

You can absolutely know you are saved if you truly believe God that Christ died for our offenses/sins, was entombed and was roused the third day (see Romans 4 near the end).

If you can tell God: "God, I don't understand all Christ's death for us entails but if You say He died for our sins, was entombed and roused the third day then I believe you!" You are now righteous, saved, justified. It does not depend upon feelings but facts, the truth and believing God concerning this. It is so simple. Don't complicate it!

If one feels they must PERFORM works of whatever in order to be saved then one can never fully know if they are saved since they would always fail to perform perfectly.

[Seth]

One can know if he is saved from pedophilia if he is no longer molesting children.

As Paul said, a man is a slave to whatever he submits himself.

[Tony N]

One can know if he is saved from pedophilia if he is no longer molesting children.

As Paul said, a man is a slave to whatever he submits himself.

But one would never know if they would slip back into pedophilia at any given moment if they were given to that lifestyle. So they would
always be in fear of losing their salvation. We all sin. We all fall short of God's glory on a daily basis.  The answer to this dilemma is grace and faith.

Even the Corinthian boy caught having sex with his father's mother did not lose his salvation. Yes, he was severely chastened by Satan for that act but in 11 Corinthians they accepted the boy back into fellowship. But Paul had them give the boy over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh so his spirit would be saved.

We believers of the uncircumcision should never be in fear of losing our eonian salvation which is freely/gratuitously (without a cause on our part) given. Since we never earned salvation we likewise can do nothing to unearn it. Of course one can make shipwreck as to the faith as Hymenius and Alexander.

The Galatians went way off track as to the faith. Yet Paul never said they were no longer saved. He still called them brothers and "little children mine".

It is a wonderful point in one's life when they are freed from the fear of having to DO things to be saved and just BELIEVE Christ died for our sins.