Just believing God, God considers you righteous

[jabcat]

a big context

like huge sections of the Bible   :laugh:

[Seth]

I don't believe that means someone can have the faith of Jesus imparted into them through the Holy Spirit, then sealed by the same Spirit unto that Day, and that that faith is dead or of absolutely no effect to the renewing of that person's spirit (as I believe when the above truly happens, the renewing of the spirit is accomplished, done deal).

I believe the same thing. Whoever God has chosen will be given faith and grown in the Spirit. Since we don't know who that is (because of our limited knowledge) Peter says make your calling and election sure.

I believe it has other implications, as was hammered out a few months ago in another thread ( things like "dead" to others, no effect as to spreading the gospel, to growing, to being obedient, to attaining rewards and position of service based on faithfullness, etc.).   

Yes all that. Plus Romans 2. God will reward each according to their works.

Romans 2
4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who "will render to each one according to his deeds":[a] 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.

But that's old hat for us old-timers.     Again, I'd rather folks take following the Lord seriously anyway.  Maybe a little hell has been good for some of us along the way.  :)  God knows.

:HeartThrob:

[rosered]

Well, I agree with you because I believe in the persistence of the saints, but it's worth pointing out that Jesus doesn't say "depart from me you who aren't believers." He says "depart from me you who work iniquity"

If the point is that those who work iniquity aren't real believers, that pretty much validates what James says "faith without works is dead."

   Hi Seth I believe that is going on now ,  He causes them to feel the rejection   and they are held in darkness  ''  in a strange way ''..

  Look at the  ones whom thought they were the righteousness  of God   and told Jesus   ''  they see''  .....     to  them   woe woe woe '' judgement '' fiery   trials are coming on you  .....    it is  in  the earth     the light they hold so dearly     is the light of darkness   and the wisdom of men  , only to burned  as nothing before Him     needing the eye salve     for healing those sore eyes   and shame of their nakedness appearing     , burnt up like a filthy garment  Matt 23   

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.


We can certainly see this , even to this day ...
Only God  can give rest    , there is no other peace except in Jesus Christ     , the ones   whom   shut the door in Jesus Christ face   , are the ones who  only have the opportunity to   live the   judgement being  your house is  left to you desolate and you will  only be able to say , Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord ....  they did not take heed to the  time of their visitation     
  Jesus come as a thief in the night to them , darkness and ignorance all around    as they sleep the sleep of death   in their own mortality     
  and the  wise and foolish virgins       are  the one and the same       as the sheep and  goats     , the Sheep hear His Voice when the Spirit   speaks they listen and the sheep  go toward Him         , the  wise kept the oil and      the lit  lamps burning     , those who  did not   seek  or ask or find Him   , were  left in the dust

only to find they would have to search  and buy of those sellers themselves   and that is all the religious    pomp and air and stuff all that mast   explaining      what to do to enter heaven    all those ways and wise words     a new  devised ways    of learning  , no different than a thief and robber    spirit toiling to enter under their own conditions    ..    :sigh:
  But Jesus told us how  to  already     take up your cross and follow Him   he is  meek of spirit and lowly of heart and there you will find  rest for your souls ... we  follow His voice and where ever  He sends us we  follow  after Him  , because trusting Him is the only way     by the purest form of worship    Spirit and truth   , we call upon the name of the  LORD JESUS CHRIST        , He is our only help in the hour of need    and even those  whom sinned against Him   can and will be forgiven    , not first but last , it maybe when they actually physically die    even . and held till Jesus    comes to them in their torment    FACE TO FACE  they cannot come back here no more    and relive    that part  ever  again  but sure wish they would have listened to HIS VOICE    as many refreshing waters    , that deep regret    .



28"Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. 29"Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. 30"For My yoke is easy and My burden is light."

[Tom]

"where sin increases, grace superexceeds" (Romans 5:20)

[Seth]

Titus 2:11-14

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

12 Teaching (paiduo - scourging) us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

[Seth]

Titus 3
3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

[rosered]

Titus 2:11-14

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

12 Teaching (paiduo - scourging) us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

  Yes!!   This is speaking of this time and this life , a more abundant one found in Christ Jesus ..

[Tom]

"Nothing, consequently, is now condemnation to those in Christ Jesus." (Romans 8:1)

[Seth]

John 15
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

[rosered]

 :thumbsup:  perfect   !! perfect Love  :HeartThrob:
great scriptures       guys

[jabcat]

I didn't always believe I was safe in God's hands only due to His work on my behalf and unmerited gift to me.  In fact, I fought it for a long time and argued against it - and kept trying to "stay saved" by my works and effort and failing miserably.  Realizing over time that it's about Him in me, and His love constraining me.    I still don't believe grace or eternal security is a license to sin, as I believe the works of the Holy Spirit either bring a believer into obedience (while comforting us with assurance of His grace being sufficient in our failures of flesh), or if stubbornly willful and disobedient, suffer the consequences of loss of joy and peace in this life, as well as loss of rewards in the next.

An interesting view of abiding in Him;

John 15:6: "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned." But 'abiding' in Christ is the same as believing, as shown by comparing the use of the word in John 6:56 ("He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.") and 1 John 4:15 ("Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God."). Notice these are written by the same author. The one who does not abide/believe is cast out and burned [disciplined, corrected, suffer loss].


If anyone would like to see a good, sound case about what it means to be secure in Christ, here's an interesting article with which I have a lot of agreement (except for the non-UR parts :).  Besides that, I think the author makes many excellent points.

http://www.equipsaints.org/EternSec.htm

[Seth]

I didn't always believe I was safe in God's hands only due to His work on my behalf and unmerited gift to me.  In fact, I fought it for a long time and argued against it - and kept trying to "stay saved" by my works and effort and failing miserably.  Realizing over time that it's about Him in me, and His love constraining me.    I still don't believe grace or eternal security is a license to sin, as I believe the works of the Holy Spirit either bring a believer into obedience (while comforting us with assurance of His grace being sufficient in our failures of flesh), or if stubbornly willful and disobedient, suffer the consequences of loss of joy and peace in this life, as well as loss of rewards in the next.

I actually felt the same way as you did when I believed in hell. When I stopped believing in hell I began to understand that what Jesus is warning about is ourselves and the suffering we can bring upon ourselves through sin.

When he says "if you keep my commandments you shall abide in my love" his commandments are more than to believe, John. These are his commandments, that you believe in Jesus and love eachother. We cannot take one and leave the other. That's 1John 3:20.

This is what I believe James is talking about in James 2. He's talking about that second commandment "...and love eachother."

I think the stern warnings of the New Testament are about loving eachother so as not to destroy ourselves.

[rosered]

Amen,,, the both you ! Blessings brothers  in   Jesus Christ    !!  :HeartThrob:

I went though the same trials of faith and dead works   all my life ,  until I surrendered     and asked God''  please Help me a sinner Lord ''

I need your love   and mercy and grace   , we cannot begin to love God or     love   each other  , until we are ''healed '' and made whole in Christ and it is in His  long suffering towards us      that we might  live and serve the LIVING GOD  in the ways He desires   now and   there is no end to this   ever lasting Love , it can only get better   as more and more   are    Lifting  Him up and drawing    all men unto Himself   as  was  gathering the fragments that remain that none would  be wasted  or lost ....

I see this as the bread of heaven and  feeding His flock , that  all that was  given was returned  to Him  with interest  or ''adding to the   number ''   of believers
     
...11Jesus then took the loaves, and having given thanks, He distributed to those who were seated;

likewise also of the fish as much as they wanted.

12When they were filled, He said to His disciples, "Gather up the leftover fragments so that nothing will be lost."

13So they gathered them up, and filled twelve baskets with fragments from the five barley loaves which were left over by those who had eaten....


The symbolism in the Bible are  beautiful    and we see Jesus in them all        :HeartThrob:

[jabcat]

 :HeartThrob:

[eaglesway]

Can you tell when you are righteous and when you are not?

I don't believe we always can, but I can say this, if you care, you are. Those who are struggling with the acceptance of God may be under strains, stresses, deceptions of different measure and impact. The accuser of the brethren stands before the Lord of the whole earth day and night, and you can be sure he attacks the saints, surrounding them if he can, wearing them out when he can. But if we are defeated that does not mean we are unrighteous. It means we dont know we are righteous. But if we do not care, we are not righteous- no matter what we believe.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, but sometimes the adversary intercepts the word of forgiveness and the word of freedom. Author of confusion and father of lies. Condemnation stymies grace- but grace is the only means to freedom.  Whatever cuts us off from grace binds us to sin. It is, BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH. Confession, "Lord have mercy on me, a sinner" is free.It is a good place to begin, because then we can hear the word.... You Are Forgiven.  "If we confess our sins(to Him) He is FAITHFUL to forgive us aour sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

But we have to believe that for it to do us any good today. It may be true but that is only ultimet salvation if we cannot hear it today. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Yet even then, when reading the word. Many cannot hear the word of reconciliation. When they read the word they can only see the stain of sin and the judgment of God. So then, prayer is the answer, because only our connection to Him by the Spirit is sufficient to open our ears, so that our mind can be renewed, and the word of reconciliation become fruitful. Grace flows through the connection. "Great grace was upon them all and the word of the Lord grew and multiplied."

We try to achieve assurance through the mind and fail. No doctrine supplies assurance. A deeper relationship is the only source of assurance.

For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

Heart belief yields salvation, which is healing/deliverannce/restoration.

What we desire is to be restored, but we cannot be restored through a doctrine- no matter how liberal or legalistic. It is with the heart we believe. From the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. If our hearts have "heard" the word of reconciliation we have the seed- but it must be planted(embraced unto death), rained upon(the patient husbandman waits for the early and the latter rains), and then patient endurance in hearing and walking in what is heard brings confidence and strength.

"In repentance and rest is your deliverance.  In quietness and trust is your strength."

We think as tho salvation is a transaction that is over and done, but this does not satisfy or supply assurance. It is abiding in relationship that brings the further deliverance that is "salvation" (healing/deliverance/restoration) of mind body and soul. "The one who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved"- What? Once? No. Continually calling, crying out, searching and communing with God through Christ is the WAY. The way is the process of salvation. Adam and Eve hid in the garden because they were condemned, they were ashamed.

A beiever does not need to hide. He has stretched His arms open wide to forgive- and even more, will rain down love and assurance on any who will hear the word with faith. Faith is the gift of God lest any man should boast- so pray for the gift. God will give it.

We all know that the salvation of all is a done deal. Already paid for. But what good is that to me if I struggle in bondage and chains of fear and condemnation. Am I saved?

I am-objectively. Its a fact. Even if i am faithless He is faithful still.

But only in objective truth and in finality- but not, TODAY. Am I saved(healed/delivered/made whole) TODAY?

Perhaps not- experientially.

Yet, experiential salvation is what we are offered in our gospel- IN ADDITION TO THE ESCAPE FROM KOLASSIS, AIONIAN. If we say that everyone who believes that Jesus is vivified is saved- Well, that may be true as a distant destination and a backstop assurance for eternity and the age to come- but the only way to experience salvation TODAY is to walk in the spirit by grace through faith. "As you received your salvation so also walk ye in it". Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

The grace of God TEACHES US- to deny ungodliness, but still- many of us fail everyday. We all stumble in many ways. So we wrestle with God and come up in Romans 7......While I agree with God that the law is good as I try to practice righteousness I find myself serving a different law in my flesh."

But the flesh has been rendered dead. DON"T LISTEN TO THE DEAD MAN TALKING. He is saying- "You are not good enough. That's just a feeling. Look at your failures. How can you be the righteousness of God in Christ?"

Because He says I am. Realize that the old man is dead, crucified with Christ, buried in baptism. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. TODAY if you hear His voice harden not your heart.
As you hear(let the ones who have ears to hear hear) you will grow. As you pray, calling upon the name of the Lord, "Deliver me O God"- He will show Himself mighty to save.

If you languish in the mind and are unable to move into heart belief, you will still have ultimate salvation from death and reconciliation by His blood but it will not save you TODAY. You will struggle with doubt and be plagued by the accuser of the brethren.

But we cannot move from the mind to the hear on your ownt. No one can. Only God can take us from the wilderness into the land of promise. So what do we do?

We pray. We exhort one another to love and good works. We cry out to God and call upon the name of the Lord. Soon, if not suddenly, FAITH COMES, BY HEARING, the ears of our heart open, the Spirit strengthens oour inner man with GRACE, and SALVATION BREAKS OUT .......In Our Experience.

[eaglesway]

like everything else...the devil's apparently in the details of this free gift of righteousness. :sigh:

    I get tired of joy being raised in the hearts of His people..like the op Tony wrote.  Everyone praising God etc

  for what He does..then someone comes along and throws a wet blanket on it....and OH NO! it isn't a free gift... :eeew:

  it depnds on you after all!!!!!!! :eek:


   Goes to show..what's impossible with men..is possible with God!

  what,pray tell..is arrogant about believing  Jesus was/is the son of God,was crucified and died and resurrected?

  how is it arrogant to have God reckkon you as righteous for believing it? It is God who reckkons it.

             are we arrogant for believing Him?  seems to me that putting faith in

this leaves off any boasting in the flesh[arrogance]  Your'e righteousness MUST exceed the Pharisees.........

   they didn't believe He was the son of God...Lord..what works must we do...'you must believe him who was sent to you"

   This is My son..LISTEN TO HIM..  He told the Pharisee's and Sadducee's...the HARLOTS ARE ENTERING THE KINGDOM

  BEFORE YOU!!!!!  How is a harlot more righteous in God's sight then the religious leaders who had no sin[cough! cough!]


     Be CAREFUL NOT TO DO YOUR ACTS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS BEFORE MEN


   The gifts and calling is without repentance on God's part[just as all Israel will be saved/though severely chastised]


   Now,I ask you....Because some become arrogant and are corrected..does that make the righteousness reckoned to us

  by God for believing  Jesus Christ is the son of God,was crucified,died and resurrected as no account?


Jesus Christ is the light..so how can a plague of darkness[Egypt] befall those who believe in Him?


   do we not all see through a glass darkly while in this shroud of flesh? Sometimes all people see is a light at the

end of the tunnel.

  BECAUSE YOU SAY YOU SEE.....YOUR SINS REMAIN

   the Saints were overcome..the dragon trampled them under his feet..

   WHEN I RETURN WILL I FIND FAITH ON THE EARTH? 


   Read Matthew ch 6 and see what He says are acts of righteousness. secret giving and mercy and compassion

  prayer and fasting in secret...forgiveness. don't worry..don't judge other's.

   If God says He reckon's you righteous for it..who is any man to disagree...or cause other's to shrink back through fear

   those example's are for reminders/signpost's of what pleases Him and what does not. and when we Love Him we

  want to please Him the best we can. and calling Him a liar is not the way


   It's all about the love in the heart..both for God and your fellow man

     

I dont think anyone is being a wet blanket on anyone. This a forum. We discuss things. We work it out in the fire and iron shapens iron. I for one am responding also as one seeking to clarify what Tony is saying(for myself) because it is easy to say happy things, nevertheless everything must be tested and the testing proves the metal.

Disagreeing with another persons point of view is not calling God a liar, and asserting that repentance is a part of belief is not saying it depends on you. Faith produces repentance. It is one way that grace manifests, and as with Abraham.....faith moves from one place to another place- it does not stay the same.

I am not saying Tony is talking about mental assent- I was not sure tho, so I tested the word he delivered. I agree in part(ultimately all will be saved). I disagree in part. Those who say to the Lord, "Lord, Lord, didnt we do mighty works in your name...." must have believed that Jesus was crucified for sin and raised from the dead. Yet, they enter kolassis.

I am interested Tony- how does this work in your paradigm?

[Dandelion]

I remember one Christmas Day, hearing a sermon I never forgot.

The theme was, who do you hitch your star to?

I think faith, as eaglesway said, is not of the intelligence or knowledge, but of the heart.

And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven".

Our faith must be like that of a child's. Trusting; not self-serving and innocent. We must look to God, as a child looks to a parent.

Psychologists tell us, that when a child is growing up, they must learn to seperate their own identity from their parent's, as they mature.

But, to have the faith of a child, perhaps that is key. We have our identity in Christ risen.

I believe true faith lets go of ourselves as central, and hitches our star to Christ.

Gal. 2:21, "I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly".

Believing that works of our own account saves us, is making ourselves to be our Savior. No one can save us but Jesus....we are not worthy enough to save ourselves,
because we are 'dead in our own sins'.

So, we must deliberately accept the free gift of Grace, which was given in love by Christ, specifically to save us.

That puts Christ in the spotlight, and not ourselves.....'so that no one can boast'.

...7so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast....

By putting Jesus first, we allow Him to control our lives, and not ourselves. That is when He is the vine and we are the branches.

...4"Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. 5"I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. John 15: 4 - 5

Beautiful....as only God would think of.

:2c:

[Seth]

Believing that works of our own account saves us, is making ourselves to be our Savior. No one can save us but Jesus....we are not worthy enough to save ourselves,
because we are 'dead in our own sins'.

So, we must deliberately accept the free gift of Grace, which was given in love by Christ, specifically to save us.

That puts Christ in the spotlight, and not ourselves.....'so that no one can boast'.

I agree with this Dandelion. Though, I don't think it means that works have NOTHING to do with salvation. The question I ask is what do works have to do with salvation? After all, Apostle James said this:

James 2
14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that? 17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

He asks, "can that faith save him?" But, save him from WHAT? James was certainly not talking about hell. As Eaglesway said, Peter said that we are to be saved "from this wicked generation." And, Jesus came to save us from sin. So, I think James's point is if we say we believe in Christ but our works are no different from "this wicked generation" that we are supposed to be saved from, then how are we saved?

Do I believe "works of our own account" save us? No, I don't. But I do believe that works of a certain kind do save us, just not of our own account. Here is what I mean:

Titus 3
3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

I think to me it's clear that our own righteous does not save us, but the Holy Spirit does, and the Spirit changes our works, thus saving us from sin. So when James says, "what if someone says he has faith but no works, can that faith save him?" Well, using the Titus 3 scripture, what if someone says he has faith but is "serving divers lusts" can that faith save him from saving divers lusts?

Outside of theology, it makes common sense. What must a man do to be saved from drug addiction? Many people would probably say, you need to get clean. That's common sense. But the moment theology gets involved, it's like that goes out the window, and suddenly we can be saved from sin without works. Nobody is going to be saved from drug addiction by saying "I believe in Jesus" and leaving it at that. If he does, he will stay a drug addict.

[Tom]

I think Jesus Christ did all the "work" that's necessary for the salvation of all mankind when he died on the cross, and he even accomplished what was necessary to reconcile all on the earth and in heavens to God. I think the "works" of us who are of the nations, the ecclesia, the body of Christ, are the fruits of our salvation, not the means to it, and this is something we've debated before and agreed to disagree on as I remember. We all have our own perspective on scripture. I'm not putting anybody else down or trying to convince anybody else to believe what I do. I'm just expressing my own opinion.

[Seth]

According to Paul the washing and renewing of the Holy Spirit results in being saved from serving divers lusts. Servitude to lust is a work. According to Paul the Holy Spirit saves us by causing us to stop doing that. So, the changing of the works is what saved them from that.

According to Paul in Romans 5, it wasn't Christ's death that saved us. It's his LIFE that saves us. His death made peace with man, but it's his life that does the saving work. Romans 5:10

What Jesus did "at the Cross" was not the end of the story. There's also the matter of what he did 3 days later.

[gregoryfl]

Think of salvation from an ancient Semitic point of view, as the spaciousness existing for a plant that grows up out of the ground.

Think of works as the branches of that particular tree.

Do the branches cause the tree to be able to grow up out of the ground?

Does the tree growing up out of the ground enable the branches to appear?

Can you have fruit without any branches?

Can you have branches without any fruit?

If so, what purpose does the fruit serve?

What purpose do the branches serve?

Ronen

[Seth]

Yes, and I would ask, if a cherry tree isn't producing fruit, what can save it from not producing fruit? Give it some water, prune it. Then it will produce fruit.

[Tom]

I think God saves us.

[sheila]

   I was given a vision of an apple tree...and there was only one Branch on the tree that was fruitful..but boy how fruitful

  that branch was! for it......covered almost the whole tree! and the apples were so huge and perfect that I was amazed that

  the Branch was strong enough to bear all that fruit without breaking or bending.


  none of our salvation depends on our own works.  Atonement and passover prove that point,as far as I'm concerned.

   a perfect Lamb free of blemish was required...and all of us have 'sin' and are not perfect. God will not accept

our diseased blemished sacrifices as atonement. However we can partake of the Lamb/body and blood  and partake

in HIS SACRIFICE WORKS through the HOLY SPIRIT.

   Jesus said 'I do the works of the Father" and did not even claim any works done through Him..but give the glory

and honour unto Him.   God can do a work through an ass if He wants....you can do nothing of yourselves.

   so really salvations and it's works are done of God by His spirit and will...and He will use men to do them as He

pleases.   that is why Him giving us ..gifts of men for the ministry is just that GIFTS.............everyone needs to

quit claiming the power of God and the Holy spirit as if it was some personal righteousness of themselves.

   what we can do is offer ourselves unto Him for reasonable service unto Him and let His spirit flow through us

to do His will..as He pleases.and bring forth His 'good' works. But don't call anyone a good christian for it..because

Jesus said 'why do you call me good, there is only one who is good, the Father in heaven"


   Learn the lesson of the power of God shown through Moses and the staff..... the staff/rod thrown down on the ground

becomes a serpent....pick up the staff in the hand and it is a shepherds staff/rod of rule.

  men get in and out of the flesh and spirit....get in the flesh..and your a serpent on the ground.....get in the spirit

and your a staff/rod in His hand.

   God has planned to make all men righteous...just as all men have bore the image of the corrupt,so,too,shall all

bear the image of incorrupt[righteous]...but even then..'our' righteousness is really of Him..when He is all in all

because what [spirit] is inside of us[Him] we shall be Holy/RIGHT/JUST.......

[rosered]

 :thumbsup:

I love the metaphors   of the bible  speech   , trees and branches....   praise and fruits unto the Lord ...

  trees of righteousness


The Year of the Lord's Favor
...2To proclaim the favorable year of the LORD And the day of vengeance of our God; To comfort all who mourn,


3To grant those who mourn in Zion, Giving them a garland instead of ashes, The oil of gladness instead of mourning, The mantle of praise instead of a spirit of fainting. So they will be called oaks of righteousness, The planting of the LORD, that He may be glorified.

4Then they will rebuild the ancient ruins, They will raise up the former devastations; And they will repair the ruined cities, The desolations of many generations....
Cross References
Matthew 15:13
He replied, "Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots.

1 Corinthians 3:9
For we are co-workers in God's service; you are God's field, God's building.

Hebrews 1:9
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy."

Psalm 23:5
You prepare a table before me in the presence of my enemies. You anoint my head with oil; my cup overflows.

Psalm 45:7
You love righteousness and hate wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.

Psalm 104:15
wine that gladdens human hearts, oil to make their faces shine, and bread that sustains their hearts.

Psalm 149:4
For the LORD takes delight in his people; he crowns the humble with victory.

Isaiah 26:2
Open the gates that the righteous nation may enter, the nation that keeps faith.

Isaiah 44:23
Sing for joy, you heavens, for the LORD has done this; shout aloud, you earth beneath. Burst into song, you mountains, you forests and all your trees, for the LORD has redeemed Jacob, he displays his glory in Israel.

Isaiah 46:13
I am bringing my righteousness near, it is not far away; and my salvation will not be delayed. I will grant salvation to Zion, my splendor to Israel.

Isaiah 52:1
Awake, awake, Zion, clothe yourself with strength! Put on your garments of splendor, Jerusalem, the holy city. The uncircumcised and defiled will not enter you again.

Isaiah 60:20
Your sun will never set again, and your moon will wane no more; the LORD will be your everlasting light, and your days of sorrow will end.

Isaiah 60:21
Then all your people will be righteous and they will possess the land forever. They are the shoot I have planted, the work of my hands, for the display of my splendor.

Jeremiah 17:7
"But blessed is the one who trusts in the LORD, whose confidence is in him.

Jeremiah 17:8
They will be like a tree planted by the water that sends out its roots by the stream. It does not fear when heat comes; its leaves are always green. It has no worries in a year of drought and never fails to bear fruit."

Jeremiah 31:13
Then young women will dance and be glad, young men and old as well. I will turn their mourning into gladness; I will give them comfort and joy instead of sorrow.

Ezekiel 34:29
I will provide for them a land renowned for its crops, and they will no longer be victims of famine in the land or bear the scorn of the nations.

Ezekiel 47:7
When I arrived there, I saw a great number of trees on each side of the river.