What is Ezekiel talking about?

[eaglesway]

I agree, there is no mixture of law in the gospel of Jesus Christ. it is the revelation of the grace of God and the only law is the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus, which is the perfect law of liberty, love.

[marie glen]

   ...Is there a future blessing for Israel on earth, or is the Kingdom now firmly a Spiritual Jerusalem?

Hebrews 12:22
But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly,

Matthew 21:43
"Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.

Paul, as we know said Israel fell away so the gentile nations (non-Israel) could be grafted in.. he also said "if their falling away is salvation, what shall their gathering (back in) be? but life from the dead" which i figure is a reference to life from the dead as the resurrection at Jesus' return.. how Paul wrote, they who are alive (and remain) at the time, will no proceed the dead in Christ, but the dead will rise, and those who are his and are alive and remain shall meet the Lord in the air (at his coming) and so shall we all ever be with the Lord..

Zechariah 14:4 says his feet touch down on Mt of Olives (from where He left, Acts 1:19? "He shall return just as you have seen Him go..")

In the Book of Rev of course is the reference to the twelve tribes of Israel being sealed on their forehead just prior to some big event which i believe is the signal of an escalation of eschatology/end time events and prophecy.. There's the numbering 12,000 from 12 tribes, then there's a great crowd too huge to number, from all nations, tribes and tongues.. gentile nations (non-Israel) (some think this is a literal view in the heavens, but what it says is "were sealed on their forehead" (100% clarity? to go with the seal on their heart? when saved?) ...there's another 'scene' in Rev where 144,000 are said to be 'seen' on Mt Zion.. but it is to Mt Olives He returns to..

Then of course is the measuring in Rev 21, that the New Jerusalem is shown as descending to the Earth and covers Israel and plus, lots of plus.. I've always assumed the New Earth will have the "chosen land" of israel and then some as the capital, a new jersusalem

----------------

Also when Jesus wept over Jerusalem, He said "Jerusalem, Jerusalem.. you shall not see me again until you say 'blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD'...." And I think the last verses of Rev 12 also refer to Israel (as "the rest of her seed", "she" Or "her" portrayed as having twelve stars around her head, imo, Israel then Christendom/the faith) "the dragon turns his attention to the rest of her seed, who have the commandments of God and (by then?) hold to the testimony of Jesus" - "and the armies of the world were gathered to Harmegeddon"-Rev 16:14-16 (which cannot, imo, be 70 a.d. Rev being written about 90 a.d.)

..it's my belief the prophets are full of references of blessings of Israel in the Kingdom age..

Just did a google, and am now reading this page - http://kingwatch.co.nz/Times_Seasons/israel_blessing.htm haven't looked to see who wrote yet or anything..
- this quote from it -
  "God's promise to Israel is most clearly stated in Romans 11. Paul says that although the Jews have stumbled, they did not fall beyond recovery (v.11). He promises that the time will come when Israel is reconciled to the Lord and grafted back into his olive tree. So the Lord promises that all Israel will be saved (v. 26)."
- reminds me how I think Israel is a microcosm of the whole of humanity.. wandered from god, under His 'wrath'/nonlife or leading to nonlife, dragon's wrath, then gathered to God - All Israel/all humanity will be saved..

It's my belief Jesus said to Thomas, touch my side and hands (wounds) and see I am not a ghost.. And also Jesus ate after His resurrection.. "We shall be like Him" I believe includes having a body, not disembodied spirits as much of the church seems to believe(?) spiritual only, but a new earth and universe / paradise un-breakable, is what I believe God is creating.. "each one under their vine and fruit tree" - "the lion will eat straw like the ox, the bear will graze with the cow".. [Micah 3:4 & Is 11:7]

"It is sown a corruptible body, it is raised an incorruptible" (body).. 1 Cor 15:42

I'm terribly behind in this thread, sorry  :smile: :pointlaugh:

[Seth]

Zechariah 14
Behold, a day is coming for the Lord when the spoil taken from you will be divided among you. 2 For I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city will be captured, the houses plundered, the women ravished and half of the city exiled, but the rest of the people will not be cut off from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle. 4 In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south. 5 You will flee by the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains will reach to Azel; yes, you will flee just as you fled before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord, my God, will come, and all the holy ones with Him!

6 In that day there will be no light; the luminaries will dwindle. 7 For it will be a unique day which is known to the Lord, neither day nor night, but it will come about that at evening time there will be light.

8 And in that day living waters will flow out of Jerusalem, half of them toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea; it will be in summer as well as in winter.

Here is my view on that scripture. I believe it is beginning with physical Jerusalem and ending with New Jerusalem. When his feet stand on the mount of Olives, notice what happens: it creates a valley so that the rest of Jerusalem's inhabitants flee the city through a valley. The other half are exiled. So the culmination of the judgment is that Jerusalem is left completely empty. In Ezekiel, God says that he will send a famine and the sword and that is how Jerusalem will be judged. I believe that speaks to the word of God and lacking of the true bread, who is Christ.

When I see the imagery of God's people fleeing through a valley parted by God's power, I am reminded of another scripture that speaks about how God parted the Red Sea so that they could escape Egypt. Revelation says that The Lord was crucified in Sodom and Egypt.

God always said he was going to to completely destroy Jerusalem but leave behind a remnant, which Paul identifies himself as being in Romans 11. And it is after the Zechariah remnant flee through he parted mountains that God describes the city of New Jerusalem, having neither day or night for there shall be no moon or sun, and the living waters that flow from the city.

At one point Paul thought himself a part of a remnant, a remainder of a judgment. And he applied that teaching to the fact that the rest of Israel has been blinded and cut off and was reassuring people that God has not abandoned Israel because he promised to leave behind a remnant. That remnant was to rebuild Jerusalem, David's tent.

Isaiah 56
6 "Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord,
To minister to Him, and to love the name of the Lord,
To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the sabbath
And holds fast My covenant;
7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar;
For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples."
8 The Lord God, who gathers the dispersed of Israel, declares,
"Yet others I will gather to them, to those already gathered."

I see New Jerusalem all over that scripture. I see the Sabbath being Christ himself.

What I believe the prophets declare is that Jerusalem would be removed from the earth, and that a remnant would escape and survive (not be blinded) and that New Jerusalem would to be built using a that remnant to add the Gentiles to Israel.

That is why, I believe, that the prophets prophecied until John the Baptist, because Christ was to come fulfill the prophets with himself, that he would create Israel as the single seed of Abraham, having cut off the other branches, and then graft the remnant to the true tree on Pentecost to begin the Isaiah 56 process of bringing the Gentiles into the land which is heavenly.

[Tom]

I kind of like chocolate ice cream, but I think the evangel for today is clear.

"For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present, not of works, lest anyone should be boasting." (Ephesians 2:8,9)

[Seth]

I kind of like chocolate ice cream, but I think the evangel for today is clear.

"For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present, not of works, lest anyone should be boasting." (Ephesians 2:8,9)

I think that evangel has been the same since the beginning for everyone. By Grace we are healed from the carnal mind, not by works of the Law. But grace teaches us to live godly lives. Nobody, in my opinion was ever admonished to continue works of the law,

That is why Ephesians 2 says:

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, [d]indulging the desires of the flesh and of the [e]mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Not a work of the law but of the Spirit...causing us to be those who FORMERLY walked in sin. That was always a word for both Jews and Gentiles to share alike the same union with Christ unto salvation from sin.

[rosered]

I see New Jerusalem all over that scripture. I see the Sabbath being Christ himself.

What I believe the prophets declare is that Jerusalem would be removed from the earth, and that a remnant would escape and survive (not be blinded) and that New Jerusalem would to be built using a that remnant to add the Gentiles to Israel.

That is why, I believe, that the prophets prophecied until John the Baptist, because Christ was to come fulfill the prophets with himself, that he would create Israel as the single seed of Abraham, having cut off the other branches, and then graft the remnant to the true tree on Pentecost to begin the Isaiah 56 process of bringing the Gentiles into the land which is heavenly.

  :2thumbs:   Another ,  so do I  bro !     :flowerred:
I see the blinded   with the veil over the face of Moses of those still under the  law and    not born again  yet , making the new creature in Christ  or inner man

    Israel   is the inner man of the heart     circumcision of the  heart  = removing the flesh   

I believe a lot of things are happening   right under of noses      as only the Spirit    and those of the Holy Spirit being the teacher   can ever know for certain

  when Jesus warned'' tell no man''        , it was because they would only hinder       and we are under the  same warning   

  no man knows      in my opinion           the wording is day     and hour , why   say  day and hour  as if they both come at once ?     and for whom ?


  Matt 24 ;36 

36"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37"For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.

  and this is why I believe , its individually      or in clusters and not some  big bang BOOM       expectancy that the world is expecting       just my opinion       

[rosered]

I kind of like chocolate ice cream, but I think the evangel for today is clear.

"For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present, not of works, lest anyone should be boasting." (Ephesians 2:8,9)

I think that evangel has been the same since the beginning for everyone. By Grace we are healed from the carnal mind, not by works of the Law. But grace teaches us to live godly lives. Nobody, in my opinion was ever admonished to continue works of the law,

That is why Ephesians 2 says:

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, [d]indulging the desires of the flesh and of the [e]mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Not a work of the law but of the Spirit...causing us to be those who FORMERLY walked in sin. That was always a word for both Jews and Gentiles to share alike the same union with Christ unto salvation from sin.

  yes!!!!!     Romans 8



9 But you are not ·ruled by [controlled by; or in] ·your sinful selves [your sinful nature; T the flesh], but ·by [or in] the Spirit, if that Spirit of God really lives in you. But the person who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to Christ.



10 Your body ·will always be [L is] dead because of sin. But if Christ is in you, then the Spirit ·gives you [L is] life, because ·Christ made you right with God [L of righteousness]. 11 God raised Jesus from the dead, and if God's Spirit is living in you, the One who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies that die, through[c] his Spirit who lives in you.

12 So, my brothers and sisters, we ·must not be ruled by [L are not obligated to] ·our sinful selves [our sinful nature; T the flesh] or live ·the way our sinful selves want [according to the sinful nature/T flesh].


13 [L For] If you ·use your lives to do the wrong things your sinful selves want [L live according to the flesh], you will ·die spiritually [L die]. But if you ·use the Spirit's help to [L by the Spirit] ·stop doing the wrong things you do with [L put to death the deeds of] your body, you will ·have true life [L live].

14 For all those who are led by the Spirit of God are the ·children [or sons] of God.


15 ·The Spirit you received does not make you slaves again to fear [or You did not receive the spirit of slavery, leading to fear]; instead, you received the Spirit ·who adopts you as God's children [L of adoption]. ·With [Through] that Spirit we cry out, "Abba [C Aramaic for "Father"; Mark 14:36], Father."


16 And the Spirit himself ·joins with [or testifies to] our spirits to say we are God's children. 17 If we are God's children, we ·will receive blessings from God together with Christ [L are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ]. ·But we must [L ...if indeed we] ·suffer as Christ suffered [share in his sufferings] so that we ·will have glory as Christ has glory [may share in his glory].

 

[Tom]

I think the epistle to the Galatians shows that some folks were being pressured to keep the law, but Paul set them straight.

[Tom]

The Jerusalem conference where they agreed to let Paul evangelize the nations without the requirement of the law seems to be another time when folks were being pressured to keep the law.

[Seth]

I think the epistle to the Galatians shows that some folks were being pressured to keep the law, but Paul set them straight.

Yes, that is is correct, because Paul drew a distinction between walking by the letter, and walking by the Spirit.

Galatians 5
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. 19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also [l]walk by the Spirit. 26 Let us not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another.

Paul taught against being under the Law because he understood the power of the Spirit.

[Seth]

I kind of like chocolate ice cream, but I think the evangel for today is clear.

"For in grace, through faith, are you saved, and this is not out of you; it is God's approach present, not of works, lest anyone should be boasting." (Ephesians 2:8,9)

I think that evangel has been the same since the beginning for everyone. By Grace we are healed from the carnal mind, not by works of the Law. But grace teaches us to live godly lives. Nobody, in my opinion was ever admonished to continue works of the law,

That is why Ephesians 2 says:

And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, [d]indulging the desires of the flesh and of the [e]mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Not a work of the law but of the Spirit...causing us to be those who FORMERLY walked in sin. That was always a word for both Jews and Gentiles to share alike the same union with Christ unto salvation from sin.

  yes!!!!!     Romans 8



9 But you are not ·ruled by [controlled by; or in] ·your sinful selves [your sinful nature; T the flesh], but ·by [or in] the Spirit, if that Spirit of God really lives in you. But the person who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to Christ.



10 Your body ·will always be [L is] dead because of sin. But if Christ is in you, then the Spirit ·gives you [L is] life, because ·Christ made you right with God [L of righteousness]. 11 God raised Jesus from the dead, and if God's Spirit is living in you, the One who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies that die, through[c] his Spirit who lives in you.

12 So, my brothers and sisters, we ·must not be ruled by [L are not obligated to] ·our sinful selves [our sinful nature; T the flesh] or live ·the way our sinful selves want [according to the sinful nature/T flesh].


13 [L For] If you ·use your lives to do the wrong things your sinful selves want [L live according to the flesh], you will ·die spiritually [L die]. But if you ·use the Spirit's help to [L by the Spirit] ·stop doing the wrong things you do with [L put to death the deeds of] your body, you will ·have true life [L live].

14 For all those who are led by the Spirit of God are the ·children [or sons] of God.


15 ·The Spirit you received does not make you slaves again to fear [or You did not receive the spirit of slavery, leading to fear]; instead, you received the Spirit ·who adopts you as God's children [L of adoption]. ·With [Through] that Spirit we cry out, "Abba [C Aramaic for "Father"; Mark 14:36], Father."


16 And the Spirit himself ·joins with [or testifies to] our spirits to say we are God's children. 17 If we are God's children, we ·will receive blessings from God together with Christ [L are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ]. ·But we must [L ...if indeed we] ·suffer as Christ suffered [share in his sufferings] so that we ·will have glory as Christ has glory [may share in his glory].

:dsunny:

[Tom]

I think Paul definitely understood the power of the spirit, but, after he tried to get the Jews to receive the evangel who for the most part rejected it, he was evangelizing folks who had never been subject to the law and insisting that they didn't need to be just because their Jewish brothers still figured they were.

[rosered]

 Hi Bro Tom
  the law  was custom    just as  the old wine was   better   they knew it    , did not say the kept it just knew it     and it was going to be  by the Spirit that they could keep it   , and that Spirit would be Christ in them     that anointing , like a  wick to a lamp with oil   [ Holy Spirit ]   the Light of men    John 1  4 

...3All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

4In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it
it was there they just did not recognize it  ,  to me  :dontknow:

They may have had it all along yet never took it to heart/ blind to it /Him  !!

[Seth]

I think Paul definitely understood the power of the spirit, but, after he tried to get the Jews to receive the evangel who for the most part rejected it, he was evangelizing folks who had never been subject to the law and insisting that they didn't need to be just because their Jewish brothers still figured they were.

But the Jews who rejected the evangel rejected the Spirit. Those who accept the evangel from ANY Apostle were being given the Spirit by which to live. No evangel ever required law keeping, because the evangel is about Spirit receiving, and when that happens, both Jew and Gentile walk in love, not according to the letter, but the Spirit. All the Apostles taught this same thing.

Once the Jews received the Spirit, they didn't need to add anything else to it, but to walk according to the Spirit, just like the Gentiles were doing. They were all unified under one promise and one Gospel of that promise.

[Tom]

I agree, but there were still folks back then trying to put the law on them.

[Tom]

I've got to take care of some biz folks. I'll be back later.

[rosered]

I think Paul definitely understood the power of the spirit, but, after he tried to get the Jews to receive the evangel who for the most part rejected it, he was evangelizing folks who had never been subject to the law and insisting that they didn't need to be just because their Jewish brothers still figured they were.

But the Jews who rejected the evangel rejected the Spirit. Those who accept the evangel from ANY Apostle were being given the Spirit by which to live. No evangel ever required law keeping, because the evangel is about Spirit receiving, and when that happens, both Jew and Gentile walk in love, not according to the letter, but the Spirit. All the Apostles taught this same thing.

   To love God first was    within them to do so ,,,   because they could never love their brother whom they see in the natural   

   1 John 4 ;20  Love Comes from God
...19We love, because He first loved us.

20If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen.


21And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.


love your brother whom you see  trying    and doing good
  its the age old     cain and abel        story
   God told Cain if you do well will you not also be accepted ?

  and here is the warning       sin lies at the door     but you should master it  /rule over it  , not allow it to rule over you !!
  sin  being the evil one    or the sinful self  serving   nature  that  increases to ungodliness      it was anger and jealousy that cause the first brothers  to     die  and  to be   marked   and scattered abroad     wandering  , like sheep led astray         

   

  two   marks
 
  mark those whom cause divisions and mark those whom grieve over Jerusalem 
we  either or  agree with God though Jesus Christ where there is no divisions  or we are in agreement  with the devil and scatter abroad
  for me its this simple        and truthful       , but that is me

 

       

[Seth]

I agree

[dajomaco]

The effect of the gospel on Jews is different than the effect of the gospel upon Gentiles(especially then) because the gentiles did not need the Law deconstructed in their lives. Therefore Paul had to apply the gospel differently, focusing on different aspects of the truth of Christ crucified, than he did with gentiles. One gospel, one truth, but some wide varieties of application, imo.

:iagree:

[dajomaco]

The starting point is the starting point for all eternity.
Once we start walking with the Lord we are all the same.

Where we started is different.

Let look back at a group, the group being Jewish women, in Paul's time.

Paul said there was no difference between male or female in Christ.

To say that there is no difference between Jew and Gentile.(in a practical sense )

Is the same as saying there should be as many women leaders as men leading the church.

[Seth]

There's no difference with respect to their unity in Christ and inheritance of the kingdom. In other words, there aren't separate kingdoms based on race. There is one kingdom because that difference is put aside so we can share the kingdom as one.

[dajomaco]

I think there should be as many women as men leading and walking with the Lord .

At a certain time Paul disagrees with me.

Enough though the holy spirit in planted the idea of no male or female.

Also no Jew or Gentile

[Seth]

I think there should be as many women as men leading and walking with the Lord .

At a certain time Paul disagrees with me.

Enough though the holy spirit in planted the idea of no male or female.

Also no Jew or Gentile

That doesn't mean there's a separate kingdom based on gender. We're talking about two different things.

[Seth]

When Paul says that there's neither Jew or Greek, he is talking about the identity of Abraham's seed. Christ is the seed-as-of-one so anyone joined to him is the seed based on Christ's characteristics, not their own. It's like how Isaac was called Abraham's only son, even though Ishmael literally existed. But he still was not counted for the seed. Yes there are literal differentiations between genders but that does not determine who is counted for the seed. There's only one kingdom because there's only one seed which is Christ.

[dajomaco]

IMO
The gentile is single and when they hear Jesus is available.
They  marry him.
The Jew is married (to the Law).
They hear Jesus is available.
They want to remarry but only once the divorce is Legal.
Some Love Jesus so much they marry him anyway.
The majority are still waiting for the divorce to be official in their minds.
Which I believe is an event  coming soon. (Their believe)