Will He reconcile all THINGS? or all PEOPLE?

[jbertonbounds]

Collosians 1:20

kai      di             autou    apokatallaxai
and    through    Him       to reconcile

ta      panta    eis     auton    eirEnopoiEsas
the    all          into    Him       making peace

dia            tou    haimatos    tou       staurou
through    the    blood         of the    cross

autou     di             autou    eite           ta
of Him    through    Him       whether    the

epi    tes     ges       eite    ta     en    tois
on     the     earth    or      the    in     the

ouranois.
heavens.

I don't see the word "things" in there anywhere.
Yet most bible translations say "all things."
If it does mean all things and not just all people, then:
What about rattlesnakes?
And mosquitoes?
And extinct species?
What about neanderthals?
And wooly mammoths?

[eaglesway]

There will be NO MORE MOSQUITOES.


I am prophesying according to my faith  :winkgrin:



Yea, pas is translated "all things" "everything" "all men" etc.

IMO it means all mankind and angels

[eaglesway]

Mosquitoes cannot be reconciled through the blood of His cross.

[jbertonbounds]

There will be NO MORE MOSQUITOES.


I am prophesying according to my faith  :winkgrin:



Yea, pas is translated "all things" "everything" "all men" etc.

IMO it means all mankind and angels

:thumbsup:

[Tom]

Collosians 1:20

kai      di             autou    apokatallaxai
and    through    Him       to reconcile

ta      panta    eis     auton    eirEnopoiEsas
the    all          into    Him       making peace

dia            tou    haimatos    tou       staurou
through    the    blood         of the    cross

autou     di             autou    eite           ta
of Him    through    Him       whether    the

epi    tes     ges       eite    ta     en    tois
on     the     earth    or      the    in     the

ouranois.
heavens.

I don't see the word "things" in there anywhere.
Yet most bible translations say "all things."
If it does mean all things and not just all people, then:
What about rattlesnakes?
And mosquitoes?
And extinct species?
What about neanderthals?
And wooly mammoths?

Colossians 1:20 is the verse in scripture that clearly states universal reconciliation is part of God's ultimate plan, but it is denied by most Christians because the church condemns it as heresy. That's why I say I'm a happy heretic because it is the church that does not conform to scripture despite the fact that I am condemned for heresy by the church for not conforming to its false doctrine. My guess as to why "things" has been added without it being in the ancient text is the same reason "Gehenna" is translated "hell." I think it's just another feeble attempt to distort the evangel in this case by distracting from the idea that people and even evil celestial messengers will be included in all on earth and in the heavens, but they are "things" anyway. So I think it's just another unsuccessful try to deceive those who try to seek the truth themselves in scripture rather than believing church authority without questioning it. The church couldn't keep folks from reading scripture by torturing and killing some with fire, but it came up with its own translation to try to deceive those who read it. It's sad, and church folks will condemn you for daring to speak against church doctrine or its beloved adulterated translation. That's why I say the church really is the most effective deception accomplished by Satan. That's also why I say it's hard, but we must have compassion for those who are deceived by its doctrine even while they condemn us for trying to share the truth with them. I think a time will come though when the truth will be revealed to all those who are deceived. Then they will be as blessed as we are to know truth. I've read some information about "Neanderthals" actually just being humans whose bones indicate some disease causing them to appear different. I think all the critters you mentioned are God's creatures, but were they ever not at peace with God so as to need being reconciled? Some folks don't even realize critters are living souls like humans are, but scripture says so. In fact they were created before we were. Paul says soulish bodies will be made spiritual bodies, but does that include the critters? I guess folks who have pets are hoping so. I'm not really concerned about that myself, but I can imagine quite a crowded time in the afterlife if that's so. I'm just keeping a wait and see attitude about that. Isaiah 11:6-9 says critters will live together peacefully and do no evil. I assume that will take place on earth because they're not in the body of Christ. So I guess all the wasted land on earth will be enough room for the critters if they're going to be around. At least we know those mosquitoes won't be biting us anymore if they are around because they won't be doing any evil.

The Concordant Version doesn't have "things" in Colossians 1:20. That's one of the reasons I think it's better than Young's Literal Translation. See the attachment for a comparison.

"and through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens" (Colossians 1:20)

"Just as His glories in creation take us back to the very beginning, so the greater glories of reconciliation take us to the very consummation. The universal reconciliation cannot be fully accomplished until the close of the eonian times, when all sovereignty and authority and power and even death are rendered inoperative (1Cor.15:24-27) and when all mankind are saved (1Tim.4:10) and justified (Rom.5:18). This takes us far beyond the new earth portrayed at the end of the Revelation of Jesus Christ, for there He still reigns, many of mankind are still lost, and death is not yet abolished." (Concordant Commentary pg.303-Colossians 1:20)

[attachment deleted by admin]

[jbertonbounds]

Colossians 1:20 is the verse in scripture that clearly states universal reconciliation is part of God's ultimate plan, but it is denied by most Christians because the church condemns it as heresy. That's why I say I'm a happy heretic because it is the church that does not conform to scripture despite the fact that I am condemned for heresy by the church for not conforming to its false doctrine. My guess as to why "things" has been added without it being in the ancient text is the same reason "Gehenna" is translated "hell." I think it's just another feeble attempt to distort the evangel in this case by distracting from the idea that people and even evil celestial messengers will be included in all on earth and in the heavens, but they are "things" anyway. So I think it's just another unsuccessful try to deceive those who try to seek the truth themselves in scripture rather than believing church authority without questioning it. The church couldn't keep folks from reading scripture by torturing and killing some with fire, but it came up with its own translation to try to deceive those who read it. It's sad, and church folks will condemn you for daring to speak against church doctrine or its beloved adulterated translation. That's why I say the church really is the most effective deception accomplished by Satan. That's also why I say it's hard, but we must have compassion for those who are deceived by its doctrine even while they condemn us for trying to share the truth with them. I think a time will come though when the truth will be revealed to all those who are deceived. Then they will be as blessed as we are to know truth. I've read some information about "Neanderthals" actually just being humans whose bones indicate some disease causing them to appear different. I think all the critters you mentioned are God's creatures, but were they ever not at peace with God so as to need being reconciled? Some folks don't even realize critters are living souls like humans are, but scripture says so. In fact they were created before we were. Paul says soulish bodies will be made spiritual bodies, but does that include the critters? I guess folks who have pets are hoping so. I'm not really concerned about that myself, but I can imagine quite a crowded time in the afterlife if that's so. I'm just keeping a wait and see attitude about that. Isaiah 11:6-9 says critters will live together peacefully and do no evil. I assume that will take place on earth because they're not in the body of Christ. So I guess all the wasted land on earth will be enough room for the critters if they're going to be around. At least we know those mosquitoes won't be biting us anymore if they are around because they won't be doing any evil.

The Concordant Version doesn't have "things" in Colossians 1:20. That's one of the reasons I think it's better than Young's Literal Translation. See the attachment for a comparison.

"and through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens" (Colossians 1:20)

"Just as His glories in creation take us back to the very beginning, so the greater glories of reconciliation take us to the very consummation. The universal reconciliation cannot be fully accomplished until the close of the eonian times, when all sovereignty and authority and power and even death are rendered inoperative (1Cor.15:24-27) and when all mankind are saved (1Tim.4:10) and justified (Rom.5:18). This takes us far beyond the new earth portrayed at the end of the Revelation of Jesus Christ, for there He still reigns, many of mankind are still lost, and death is not yet abolished." (Concordant Commentary pg.303-Colossians 1:20)

:thumbsup:

[joeteekay]

Collosians 1:20

kai      di             autou    apokatallaxai
and    through    Him       to reconcile

ta      panta    eis     auton    eirEnopoiEsas
the    all          into    Him       making peace

dia            tou    haimatos    tou       staurou
through    the    blood         of the    cross

autou     di             autou    eite           ta
of Him    through    Him       whether    the

epi    tes     ges       eite    ta     en    tois
on     the     earth    or      the    in     the

ouranois.
heavens.

I don't see the word "things" in there anywhere.
Yet most bible translations say "all things."
If it does mean all things and not just all people, then:
What about rattlesnakes?
And mosquitoes?
And extinct species?
What about neanderthals?
And wooly mammoths?

Same as in

Rom_8:28  And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Will share more  - got to run, in my case walk slowly.

:friendstu:

[micah7:9]

ALL :dsunny:

[Lazarus Short]

God is the God of men, angels, neanderthals, wooly mammoths, mosquitoes, extinct species, etc, etc, etc.  He made them all, and will restore them all to their original place in His creation, when the new earth and the new heavens appear.

[WhiteWings]

But what is their original state/place?

In the new creation the lamb lies with the lion. As it formerly was.
For example nature was good before Adam sinned. Later the earth brought forth thorns. Where there thorns before or just not as many?

So what about mosquitoes? Were they part of the original creation or added later as the curse?

[Lazarus Short]

I believe all plants and animals which have been changed as part of the curse will be changed back, and I trust God on it.  Remember, a lot of plants do just fine without thorns, and only female mosquitoes suck blood.  I'm sure God has a good plan for ticks, too.

[micah7:9]

But what is their original state/place?

In the new creation the lamb lies with the lion. As it formerly was.
For example nature was good before Adam sinned. Later the earth brought forth thorns. Where there thorns before or just not as many?

So what about mosquitoes? Were they part of the original creation or added later as the curse?

The original state....Gen 1:31  And God seeth all that He hath done, and lo, very good;

"In the new creation the lamb lies with the lion."  Possibly a parable?

I personally have wondered for some time...Why flies? But I always come back to the Creator who I must believe had full knowledge of what and why He had in mind. This is but my opinion. :dsunny:

[eaglesway]

If there were Mosquitoes- THEY DIDNT SUCK BLOOD AND TRANSFER DISEASE :O)

[WhiteWings]

"In the new creation the lamb lies with the lion."  Possibly a parable?

Almost certain is. But I strongly feel also reality. Wouldn't it be bad when you get eaten by a lion on the 1st day of your eternal life?  :laugh:

I personally have wondered for some time...Why flies?

Eco systems are very complex. Everything depends on something else. Everything has a purpose. Yeah, even mosquitoes, even if they are just for target practice  :Shoot:

[eaglesway]

What about microbes? will all microbes be reconciled?

I mean where do you draw the line. Are Mosquitos better than microbes. Anybody need some parameciums?

[WhiteWings]

Reconciled is a wrong word.
I have a hard time picturing a microbe kneeling for Jesus.
So instead of using reconciled I would use words like pre-fall state/function/behavior.

(http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/prestonjjrtr/Smileys%20Summer/flys.gif)

[Tom]

What about microbes? will all microbes be reconciled?

I mean where do you draw the line. Are Mosquitos better than microbes. Anybody need some parameciums?

I think we draw the line at rocks because they aren't alive.

[Tom]

What about microbes? will all microbes be reconciled?

I mean where do you draw the line. Are Mosquitos better than microbes. Anybody need some parameciums?

Here's some interesting information about "microbes" for you, bro.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ1i_vMrlEc

[Tom]

What about microbes? will all microbes be reconciled?

I mean where do you draw the line. Are Mosquitos better than microbes. Anybody need some parameciums?

Forget rocks. I think we draw the line at plants because they aren't living souls.

[Tom]

I guess, if lions aren't going to be carnivores anymore, neither will we. I don't even know if it will be necessary to eat anymore. We may just be powered by spirit.

[micah7:9]

"In the new creation the lamb lies with the lion."  Possibly a parable?

Almost certain is. But I strongly feel also reality. Wouldn't it be bad when you get eaten by a lion on the 1st day of your eternal life?  :laugh:

I personally have wondered for some time...Why flies?

Eco systems are very complex. Everything depends on something else. Everything has a purpose. Yeah, even mosquitoes, even if they are just for target practice  :Shoot:

"In the new creation the lamb lies with the lion."  Possibly a parable?[/quote]Almost certain is. But I strongly feel also reality. Wouldn't it be bad when you get eaten by a lion on the 1st day of your eternal life?  :laugh:
:laugh: :rolllol: :laugh:

As for my wonder on flies, I did come to the conclusion that everything has it's place even though I have no idea why. Good response :dsunny:

[micah7:9]

Well no matter how our carnal thinking mind wants or needs to break it down...ALL Is ALL. Crazy huh? :dsunny:

[dajomaco]

I guess, if lions aren't going to be carnivores anymore, neither will we. I don't even know if it will be necessary to eat anymore. We may just be powered by spirit.

Yes there will be no such thing as waste.

[WhiteWings]

Well no matter how our carnal thinking mind wants or needs to break it down...ALL Is ALL. Crazy huh? :dsunny:

I think all means all according to the mission Jesus has. Obviously that answer still doesn't list everything that's part of all.
Maybe we should compile a list of verses showing mankind, angels, sheep, mice, fishes and ants, are saved.

Salvation is closely connected to certain behavior and intelligence. Kneeling before the Son. Honoring the Father. That sorta stuff. None of the animals we know can do such a thing. Yeah, a dog could be trained to kneel, a parrot to praise theFather. I highly doubt the Bible is about that sort of mindless behavior.

[micah7:9]

Really ain't bothered by all the if's and such. ALL is all, and as I said my  :2c: whether the all incorporates, skeeters, wasps, flies, grubs, etc. When we start thinking like this I..my opinion...we start showing our bottom. Either way, ALL is ALL, I'll let the the "what" up to the Creator. :dsunny: