Collosians 1:20
kai di autou apokatallaxai
and through Him to reconcile
ta panta eis auton eirEnopoiEsas
the all into Him making peace
dia tou haimatos tou staurou
through the blood of the cross
autou di autou eite ta
of Him through Him whether the
epi tes ges eite ta en tois
on the earth or the in the
ouranois.
heavens.
I don't see the word "things" in there anywhere.
Yet most bible translations say "all things."
If it does mean all things and not just all people, then:
What about rattlesnakes?
And mosquitoes?
And extinct species?
What about neanderthals?
And wooly mammoths?
There will be NO MORE MOSQUITOES.
I am prophesying according to my faith :winkgrin:
Yea, pas is translated "all things" "everything" "all men" etc.
IMO it means all mankind and angels
Mosquitoes cannot be reconciled through the blood of His cross.
Quote from: eaglesway on October 17, 2014, 06:26:42 PM
There will be NO MORE MOSQUITOES.
I am prophesying according to my faith :winkgrin:
Yea, pas is translated "all things" "everything" "all men" etc.
IMO it means all mankind and angels
:thumbsup:
Quote from: JBerton on October 17, 2014, 06:14:23 PM
Collosians 1:20
kai di autou apokatallaxai
and through Him to reconcile
ta panta eis auton eirEnopoiEsas
the all into Him making peace
dia tou haimatos tou staurou
through the blood of the cross
autou di autou eite ta
of Him through Him whether the
epi tes ges eite ta en tois
on the earth or the in the
ouranois.
heavens.
I don't see the word "things" in there anywhere.
Yet most bible translations say "all things."
If it does mean all things and not just all people, then:
What about rattlesnakes?
And mosquitoes?
And extinct species?
What about neanderthals?
And wooly mammoths?
Colossians 1:20 is the verse in scripture that clearly states universal reconciliation is part of God's ultimate plan, but it is denied by most Christians because the church condemns it as heresy. That's why I say I'm a happy heretic because it is the church that does not conform to scripture despite the fact that I am condemned for heresy by the church for not conforming to its false doctrine. My guess as to why "things" has been added without it being in the ancient text is the same reason "Gehenna" is translated "hell." I think it's just another feeble attempt to distort the evangel in this case by distracting from the idea that people and even evil celestial messengers will be included in all on earth and in the heavens, but they are "things" anyway. So I think it's just another unsuccessful try to deceive those who try to seek the truth themselves in scripture rather than believing church authority without questioning it. The church couldn't keep folks from reading scripture by torturing and killing some with fire, but it came up with its own translation to try to deceive those who read it. It's sad, and church folks will condemn you for daring to speak against church doctrine or its beloved adulterated translation. That's why I say the church really is the most effective deception accomplished by Satan. That's also why I say it's hard, but we must have compassion for those who are deceived by its doctrine even while they condemn us for trying to share the truth with them. I think a time will come though when the truth will be revealed to all those who are deceived. Then they will be as blessed as we are to know truth. I've read some information about "Neanderthals" actually just being humans whose bones indicate some disease causing them to appear different. I think all the critters you mentioned are God's creatures, but were they ever not at peace with God so as to need being reconciled? Some folks don't even realize critters are living souls like humans are, but scripture says so. In fact they were created before we were. Paul says soulish bodies will be made spiritual bodies, but does that include the critters? I guess folks who have pets are hoping so. I'm not really concerned about that myself, but I can imagine quite a crowded time in the afterlife if that's so. I'm just keeping a wait and see attitude about that. Isaiah 11:6-9 says critters will live together peacefully and do no evil. I assume that will take place on earth because they're not in the body of Christ. So I guess all the wasted land on earth will be enough room for the critters if they're going to be around. At least we know those mosquitoes won't be biting us anymore if they are around because they won't be doing any evil.
The Concordant Version doesn't have "things" in Colossians 1:20. That's one of the reasons I think it's better than Young's Literal Translation. See the attachment for a comparison.
"and through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens" (Colossians 1:20)
"Just as His glories in creation take us back to the very beginning, so the greater glories of reconciliation take us to the very consummation. The universal reconciliation cannot be fully accomplished until the close of the eonian times, when all sovereignty and authority and power and even death are rendered inoperative (1Cor.15:24-27) and when all mankind are saved (1Tim.4:10) and justified (Rom.5:18). This takes us far beyond the new earth portrayed at the end of the Revelation of Jesus Christ, for there He still reigns, many of mankind are still lost, and death is not yet abolished." (Concordant Commentary pg.303-Colossians 1:20)
[attachment deleted by admin]
Quote from: Tom on October 17, 2014, 10:07:16 PM
Colossians 1:20 is the verse in scripture that clearly states universal reconciliation is part of God's ultimate plan, but it is denied by most Christians because the church condemns it as heresy. That's why I say I'm a happy heretic because it is the church that does not conform to scripture despite the fact that I am condemned for heresy by the church for not conforming to its false doctrine. My guess as to why "things" has been added without it being in the ancient text is the same reason "Gehenna" is translated "hell." I think it's just another feeble attempt to distort the evangel in this case by distracting from the idea that people and even evil celestial messengers will be included in all on earth and in the heavens, but they are "things" anyway. So I think it's just another unsuccessful try to deceive those who try to seek the truth themselves in scripture rather than believing church authority without questioning it. The church couldn't keep folks from reading scripture by torturing and killing some with fire, but it came up with its own translation to try to deceive those who read it. It's sad, and church folks will condemn you for daring to speak against church doctrine or its beloved adulterated translation. That's why I say the church really is the most effective deception accomplished by Satan. That's also why I say it's hard, but we must have compassion for those who are deceived by its doctrine even while they condemn us for trying to share the truth with them. I think a time will come though when the truth will be revealed to all those who are deceived. Then they will be as blessed as we are to know truth. I've read some information about "Neanderthals" actually just being humans whose bones indicate some disease causing them to appear different. I think all the critters you mentioned are God's creatures, but were they ever not at peace with God so as to need being reconciled? Some folks don't even realize critters are living souls like humans are, but scripture says so. In fact they were created before we were. Paul says soulish bodies will be made spiritual bodies, but does that include the critters? I guess folks who have pets are hoping so. I'm not really concerned about that myself, but I can imagine quite a crowded time in the afterlife if that's so. I'm just keeping a wait and see attitude about that. Isaiah 11:6-9 says critters will live together peacefully and do no evil. I assume that will take place on earth because they're not in the body of Christ. So I guess all the wasted land on earth will be enough room for the critters if they're going to be around. At least we know those mosquitoes won't be biting us anymore if they are around because they won't be doing any evil.
The Concordant Version doesn't have "things" in Colossians 1:20. That's one of the reasons I think it's better than Young's Literal Translation. See the attachment for a comparison.
"and through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens" (Colossians 1:20)
"Just as His glories in creation take us back to the very beginning, so the greater glories of reconciliation take us to the very consummation. The universal reconciliation cannot be fully accomplished until the close of the eonian times, when all sovereignty and authority and power and even death are rendered inoperative (1Cor.15:24-27) and when all mankind are saved (1Tim.4:10) and justified (Rom.5:18). This takes us far beyond the new earth portrayed at the end of the Revelation of Jesus Christ, for there He still reigns, many of mankind are still lost, and death is not yet abolished." (Concordant Commentary pg.303-Colossians 1:20)
:thumbsup:
Quote from: JBerton on October 17, 2014, 06:14:23 PM
Collosians 1:20
kai di autou apokatallaxai
and through Him to reconcile
ta panta eis auton eirEnopoiEsas
the all into Him making peace
dia tou haimatos tou staurou
through the blood of the cross
autou di autou eite ta
of Him through Him whether the
epi tes ges eite ta en tois
on the earth or the in the
ouranois.
heavens.
I don't see the word "things" in there anywhere.
Yet most bible translations say "all things."
If it does mean all things and not just all people, then:
What about rattlesnakes?
And mosquitoes?
And extinct species?
What about neanderthals?
And wooly mammoths?
Same as in
Rom_8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Will share more - got to run, in my case walk slowly.
:friendstu:
ALL :dsunny:
God is the God of men, angels, neanderthals, wooly mammoths, mosquitoes, extinct species, etc, etc, etc. He made them all, and will restore them all to their original place in His creation, when the new earth and the new heavens appear.
But what is their original state/place?
In the new creation the lamb lies with the lion. As it formerly was.
For example nature was good before Adam sinned. Later the earth brought forth thorns. Where there thorns before or just not as many?
So what about mosquitoes? Were they part of the original creation or added later as the curse?
I believe all plants and animals which have been changed as part of the curse will be changed back, and I trust God on it. Remember, a lot of plants do just fine without thorns, and only female mosquitoes suck blood. I'm sure God has a good plan for ticks, too.
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 18, 2014, 04:30:57 AM
But what is their original state/place?
In the new creation the lamb lies with the lion. As it formerly was.
For example nature was good before Adam sinned. Later the earth brought forth thorns. Where there thorns before or just not as many?
So what about mosquitoes? Were they part of the original creation or added later as the curse?
The original state....Gen 1:31 And God seeth all that He hath done, and lo, very good;
"In the new creation the lamb lies with the lion." Possibly a parable?
I personally have wondered for some time...Why flies? But I always come back to the Creator who I must believe had full knowledge of what and why He had in mind. This is but my opinion. :dsunny:
If there were Mosquitoes- THEY DIDNT SUCK BLOOD AND TRANSFER DISEASE :O)
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 18, 2014, 06:13:42 AM
"In the new creation the lamb lies with the lion." Possibly a parable?
Almost certain is. But I strongly feel also reality. Wouldn't it be bad when you get eaten by a lion on the 1st day of your eternal life? :laugh:
QuoteI personally have wondered for some time...Why flies?
Eco systems are very complex. Everything depends on something else. Everything has a purpose. Yeah, even mosquitoes, even if they are just for target practice :Shoot:
What about microbes? will all microbes be reconciled?
I mean where do you draw the line. Are Mosquitos better than microbes. Anybody need some parameciums?
Reconciled is a wrong word.
I have a hard time picturing a microbe kneeling for Jesus.
So instead of using reconciled I would use words like pre-fall state/function/behavior.
(http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/prestonjjrtr/Smileys%20Summer/flys.gif)
Quote from: eaglesway on October 18, 2014, 09:19:01 AM
What about microbes? will all microbes be reconciled?
I mean where do you draw the line. Are Mosquitos better than microbes. Anybody need some parameciums?
I think we draw the line at rocks because they aren't alive.
Quote from: eaglesway on October 18, 2014, 09:19:01 AM
What about microbes? will all microbes be reconciled?
I mean where do you draw the line. Are Mosquitos better than microbes. Anybody need some parameciums?
Here's some interesting information about "microbes" for you, bro.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ1i_vMrlEc
Quote from: eaglesway on October 18, 2014, 09:19:01 AM
What about microbes? will all microbes be reconciled?
I mean where do you draw the line. Are Mosquitos better than microbes. Anybody need some parameciums?
Forget rocks. I think we draw the line at plants because they aren't living souls.
I guess, if lions aren't going to be carnivores anymore, neither will we. I don't even know if it will be necessary to eat anymore. We may just be powered by spirit.
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 18, 2014, 09:10:26 AM
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 18, 2014, 06:13:42 AM
"In the new creation the lamb lies with the lion." Possibly a parable?
Almost certain is. But I strongly feel also reality. Wouldn't it be bad when you get eaten by a lion on the 1st day of your eternal life? :laugh:
QuoteI personally have wondered for some time...Why flies?
Eco systems are very complex. Everything depends on something else. Everything has a purpose. Yeah, even mosquitoes, even if they are just for target practice :Shoot:
"In the new creation the lamb lies with the lion." Possibly a parable?[/quote]Almost certain is. But I strongly feel also reality. Wouldn't it be bad when you get eaten by a lion on the 1st day of your eternal life? :laugh:
:laugh: :rolllol: :laugh:
As for my wonder on flies, I did come to the conclusion that everything has it's place even though I have no idea why. Good response :dsunny:
Well no matter how our carnal thinking mind wants or needs to break it down...ALL Is ALL. Crazy huh? :dsunny:
Quote from: Tom on October 19, 2014, 01:45:28 AM
I guess, if lions aren't going to be carnivores anymore, neither will we. I don't even know if it will be necessary to eat anymore. We may just be powered by spirit.
Yes there will be no such thing as waste.
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 19, 2014, 03:20:07 AM
Well no matter how our carnal thinking mind wants or needs to break it down...ALL Is ALL. Crazy huh? :dsunny:
I think all means all according to the mission Jesus has. Obviously that answer still doesn't list everything that's part of all.
Maybe we should compile a list of verses showing mankind, angels, sheep, mice, fishes and ants, are saved.
Salvation is closely connected to certain behavior and intelligence. Kneeling before the Son. Honoring the Father. That sorta stuff. None of the animals we know can do such a thing. Yeah, a dog could be trained to kneel, a parrot to praise theFather. I highly doubt the Bible is about that sort of mindless behavior.
Really ain't bothered by all the if's and such. ALL is all, and as I said my :2c: whether the all incorporates, skeeters, wasps, flies, grubs, etc. When we start thinking like this I..my opinion...we start showing our bottom. Either way, ALL is ALL, I'll let the the "what" up to the Creator. :dsunny:
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 19, 2014, 06:21:03 AM
Really ain't bothered by all the if's and such. ALL is all, and as I said my :2c: whether the all incorporates, skeeters, wasps, flies, grubs, etc. When we start thinking like this I..my opinion...we start showing our bottom. Either way, ALL is ALL, I'll let the the "what" up to the Creator. :dsunny:
:thumbsup:
Perhaps not reconcile, but set free might be a better term with regard to the entire creation, as separate from mankind. Creation...whatever may encompass that, will share the freedom of God's children, which of course is speaking about humans.
(Rom 8:19) For the creation is eagerly awaiting the revelation of God's children,
(Rom 8:20) because the creation has become subject to futility, though not by anything it did. The one who subjected it did so in the certainty
(Rom 8:21) that the creation itself would also be set free from corrupting bondage in order to share the glorious freedom of God's children.
Ronen
The universe is the manifestation of the power of God from the largest star in outer space to the smallest atom. God is spirit. Life is the activity of spirit. God is who all came out of; God is who is operating all through his will; and God is who all will eventually return into. I think the most comprehensive statement in the inspired written word of God is Romans 11:36 because it says exactly that. See the attachment.
[attachment deleted by admin]
I, for one, cannot wait to hug a lion. (Seriously.)
I have heard so many stories of people seeing what life will be like after He makes an end of sin and it pretty much always includes animals, and almost always at least one (tame) lion! I don't know why but I have just always wanted to snuggle up to a lion.
(I have also always hoped for no mosquitos, spiders, ticks, and other creepy things to be around for eternity but whatever He's got planned I'm sure it's all good. :winkgrin: )
Amen, sis.
Greek word G3956 (pas or panta) is translated as "all" or "all things" in most English versions. As the previous posts, especially by JB and Tom, indicate "all things" is incorrect.
All is usually an appropriate translation IMO, but not always. All does not always mean all, entire or whole. In most cases it does. But sometimes it can mean :as many as", depending on the context. Yeh I know context, context, context.
Strong G3956
all, the whole
Strong's:
πᾶς
all, any, every, the whole
Derivation: including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word;
KJV Usage: all (manner of, means), alway(-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no(-thing), X thoroughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.
Thayer:
1) individually
1a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
2) collectively
2a) some of all types[/size]
In the KJV "all things" is found in 152 verses, in the New Testament, and 80 times in Paul's writings.
In Col. 1:20, all does mean all, the entirety, the whole.
Attach 1
This is the case with most scriptures where we find the G3956 - pas, or its declensions.
In the scripture below it does not mean all, but "as many as" IMO.
KJV - Mat 3:5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
Attach 2
Sometimes a qualifying term is used in conjunction with the word "pas 0r panta", as in Rom. 8:28 where all is used with "working together"
Attach 3
At the consummation God will be "all in all":
KJV - 1Co_15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all (panta en pasin).
KJV -Eph_1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all (panta en pasin).
Therefore context is helpful in deriving the intent of a word. Therefore I suggest that in most cases "all" (pas and its derivatives) really does mean "all", mosquitoes not with standing.
I have no idea if my attachments will work, just learning. :dontknow:
[attachment deleted by admin]
For Me its the evil that is done away with , all forms of evil
when study of evil its what brings on all the suffering and Evil eats and consumes the good http://www.studylight.org/lexicons/greek/gwview.cgi?n=4190 (http://www.studylight.org/lexicons/greek/gwview.cgi?n=4190) Psalms 14
http://www.studylight.org/lexicons/greek/gwview.cgi?n=4102 (http://www.studylight.org/lexicons/greek/gwview.cgi?n=4102)
Our faith in what God does though the works of CHRIST can and does destroy the works of evil
By allowing the grace of God to work within you to the saving gift by the SPIRIT OF TRUTH is the Spirit of Prophecy and Testimony of Jesus Christ
Psalms 114 this prophecy /fortelling to be revealed within us by the Spirit of truth
1Only fools say in their hearts,
"There is no God."
They are corrupt, and their actions are evil;
not one of them does good!
2The LORD looks down from heaven
on the entire human race;
he looks to see if anyone is truly wise,
if anyone seeks God.
3But no, all have turned away;
all have become corrupt.a
No one does good,
not a single one!
4Will those who do evil never learn?
They eat up my people like bread
and wouldn't think of praying to the LORD.
5Terror will grip them,
for God is with those who obey him.
6The wicked frustrate the plans of the oppressed,
but the LORD will protect his people.
7Who will come from Mount Zion to rescue Israel?
When the LORD restores his people,
Jacob will shout with joy, and Israel will rejoice.
It is Gods consuming fire that will eat up and consume the works of evil and the Light of it will SHINE LIKE BRILLIANT dazzling, vivid, intense GLORY !
Quote from: joeteekay on October 19, 2014, 06:13:23 PM
Greek word G3956 (pas or panta) is translated as "all" or "all things" in most English versions. As the previous posts, especially by JB and Tom, indicate "all things" is incorrect.
All is usually an appropriate translation IMO, but not always. All does not always mean all, entire or whole. In most cases it does. But sometimes it can mean :as many as", depending on the context. Yeh I know context, context, context.
Strong G3956
all, the whole
Strong's:
πᾶς
all, any, every, the whole
Derivation: including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word;
KJV Usage: all (manner of, means), alway(-s), any (one), X daily, + ever, every (one, way), as many as, + no(-thing), X thoroughly, whatsoever, whole, whosoever.
Thayer:
1) individually
1a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
2) collectively
2a) some of all types[/size]
In the KJV "all things" is found in 152 verses, in the New Testament, and 80 times in Paul's writings.
In Col. 1:20, all does mean all, the entirety, the whole.
Attach 1
This is the case with most scriptures where we find the G3956 - pas, or its declensions.
In the scripture below it does not mean all, but "as many as" IMO.
KJV - Mat 3:5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
Attach 2
Sometimes a qualifying term is used in conjunction with the word "pas 0r panta", as in Rom. 8:28 where all is used with "working together"
Attach 3
At the consummation God will be "all in all":
KJV - 1Co_15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all (panta en pasin).
KJV -Eph_1:23 Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all (panta en pasin).
Therefore context is helpful in deriving the intent of a word. Therefore I suggest that in most cases "all" (pas and its derivatives) really does mean "all", mosquitoes not with standing.
I have no idea if my attachments will work, just learning. :dontknow:
Your attachment works, and in case you didn't know you can show all three modules as a comparison. I see you have the CLV, but, assuming you have all three modules, you can click the + or - at the top right to add or subtract between one and three modules. You can also right click on the module initials to change how you want them stacked. The Interlinear Scripture Analyzer is a handy search tool. The only problem is the Old Testament section of the CLV needs to be updated. I was just told recently that the retired president of the Concordant Publishing Concern, Jim Coram, is going to speak to Andre, the author of the program, about getting that done. I proofread the New Testament section of the CLV for Andre quite a while ago, and he told me not to bother doing the Old Testament because he was going to replace it, but then he got involved with some money making stuff and never got around to it. Anyway, maybe now we'll see it sometime soon which would definitely help. Now what I usually do is search something in the Old Testament with the ISA and then compare the text with the CVOT PDF file here. http://concordant.org/online/index.html That's also a good place to check the text of the CLNT PDF file against the HTML CLNT here http://concordant.org/version/CLNT_Intro.htm because it's still got a few typos. I proofread that years ago too, but I've since found a few minor errors, mostly punctuation or spelling, using my text to speech version that haven't been corrected yet. I also prefer the Concordant Keyword Concordance to Strong's that I see you're using because it is for the King James Version. Anyway, I'm sure you're going to find that ISA helpful, and you've got the attachment thing down, bro.
[attachment deleted by admin]
thanks Tom :thumbsup:
PS: I've been told that the CVOT PDF file is soon to be updated a bit also because they are finally about ready to go to print with the book, but right now it is already more accurate than the ISA Old Testament section of the CLV module. If you want to see something funny, search the word "cars" in the ISA, and then compare your results with the CVOT PDF file. That's just one of the bloopers that I remember. I used to have a list of the ones I found, but then I trashed it when I heard a new version was going to be added. When I first read that I thought it was kind of strange because I didn't know they had "cars" in Genesis.
There can be several ways of looking at this whole thing:
(1) All things are reconciled, meaning that each and every individual person, gnat, fly, mosquito, etc will be resurrected and reconciled to Yah. Yah certainly can make that work for us, but the quantity of insects produced by this scenario is a real problem for me to comprehend. It would certainly be a different world, this new creation!
(2) All things are reconciled, meaning that every individual person will be resurrected and reconciled to Yah, but all the rest of creation will simply be restored to its original, perfect state. All the gnats, flies, etc will not all be individually resurrected, yet new gnats, flies, trees, plants, etc will be a part of the perfectly balanced new creation.
(3) All humanity is reconciled, meaning that each and every individual person will be resurrected and reconciled to Yah, and the rest of the new creation will be pleasing to us, yet may not fully resemble in perfect state what we know here on the earth today. There may not be all of everything we know here on earth present in the new creation. Is there a law that says Yah must re-created everything just the way is was before, only perfect?
Of the 3 choices, I pick #3.
Things is a word not found in the original text.
All humanity will be reconciled.
The new Heavens and new Earth do not need anything physical like our sun.
It will ALL be spirit. I do not believe in spiritual mosquitoes. :laughing7:
In order to be reconciled, imo, the being must be sentient. There are other verses that must be considered. The gathering together of all into one in Christ, as has already been shared, there is no "things" in the greek. It is simply 'pas'.
In someplaces the translators added "all things", or ""all men, or they translated pas into "everything"- with no consistency it seems to me. I really don't care how far into the creation(flies, mosquitoes, etc.) the restoration goes, but really, I think the emphasis of the scriptures is on sentient beings.
I don't think plants will be resurrected. I don't think every chicken or bird or rodent or roach will be resurrected, but that is just my opinion :o) The earth was made for man, for us to dwell in at at God's pleasure. As a result of the fall, corruption and chaos entered in. As a result of the new creation- all chaos and corruption will be undone. I have confidence that whatever we will be, and the scripture clearly says, "We do not yet know what we will be", the creation within which we dwell will be awesome and wonderful and beautiful- as iour God has already shown us in this corrupted creation which, nevertheless, declares the glory of God.
"The heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament shows His handiwork".
"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse".
I'm just wondering and it is an opinion, why did the "mind of CHRIST" in a believer ever venture into a thought like this? If my memory serves, 1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
The "subject" is man. And the Lord God told man, Gen 2:16 And Jehovah God layeth a charge on the man, saying, `Of every tree of the garden eating thou dost eat;
Gen 2:17 and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it--dying thou dost die.'
What The Almighty Redeemer has in His mind for Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth did pass away, and the sea is not any more;
I do not believe should trouble us... Isa. 11:6-9 and Isa. 65:25 I believe are parables. (imo)
t
Well, I've had pets in the past, but I don't anymore. So I'm not going to miss any critters if they don't show up especially roaches and mosquitoes, and plants aren't living souls. I think Isaiah 11:6-9 & 65:25 refer to the new earth where there will probably be plants because even the former carnivores mentioned will be grazing together with their former prey. I agree that mankind is the primary focus though, and I also think only members of the body of Christ are destined for eonian life as ambassadors of conciliation in the celestial realm as Israel has been chosen to be in the kingdom of the heavens on earth. This information is only known through Paul's evangel though not Revelation, and it's also according to the belief that the body of Christ and the bride of the lamb are not the same which I know some folks here will disagree with. We all have our own interpretation of scripture though, and this is just mine.
"He Who has the bride is the Bridegroom. Yet the friend of the Bridegroom, who stands and is hearing Him, is rejoicing with joy because of the Bridegroom's voice. This, my joy, then, has been fulfilled." (John 3:29)
That verse seems to refer to John the baptist as the friend of the bridegroom who is Christ and the "bride" as the baptized Israelites.
"And I perceived the holy city, new Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband." (Revelation 21:2)
"And one of the seven messengers who have the seven bowls brimming with the last seven calamities came, and he speaks with me, saying, "Hither! I shall be showing you the bride, the wife of the Lambkin." And he carries me away, in spirit, on a mountain, huge and high, and shows me the holy city, Jerusalem, as it is descending out of heaven from God, having the glory from God." (Revelation 21:9,11)
The prophecy of John in Patmos indicates that the "bride" is the new Jerusalem descended out of heaven from God. This has always been the hope of the Jewish people. That is to say a future "kingdom of the heavens" on earth ruled by their Messiah in Jerusalem.
"On this behalf I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you, the nations--since you surely hear of the administration of the grace of God that is given to me for you, for by revelation the secret is made known to me (according as I write before, in brief, by which you who are reading are able to apprehend my understanding in the secret of the Christ, which, in other generations, is not made known to the sons of humanity as it was now revealed to His holy apostles and prophets): in spirit the nations are to be joint enjoyers of an allotment, and a joint body, and joint partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus, through the evangel of which I became the dispenser, in accord with the gratuity of the grace of God, which is granted to me in accord with His powerful operation. To me, less than the least of all saints, was granted this grace: to bring the evangel of the untraceable riches of Christ to the nations, and to enlighten all as to what is the administration of the secret, which has been concealed from the eons in God, Who creates all, that now may be made known to the sovereignties and the authorities among the celestials, through the ecclesia, the multifarious wisdom of God, in accord with the purpose of the eons, which He makes in Christ Jesus, our Lord; in Whom we have boldness and access with confidence, through His faith." (Ephesians 3:1-12)
It is only through Paul that we receive God's revelation to the nations. Before this epistle we were blessed to be in the "body of Christ" and guests of the promise, but we were subordinate to the Jews. This epistle reveals that we are "joint enjoyers of an allotment, and a joint body, and joint partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus." We have a celestial allotment on equal terms because we are members of a joint body that is not dependent on being a Jew.
"The Lord will be rescuing me from every wicked work and will be saving me for His celestial kingdom: to Whom be glory for the eons of the eons. Amen!" (2 Timothy 4:18)
The hope of Israel will be realized with their terrestrial allotment, but we of the nations along with Paul and his companions have a celestial allotment.
http://concordant.org/expohtml/CorrectPartitioning/AreTheBrideAndBodyIdentical1.html
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I don't believe there is any separation between Jewish and Gentile believers. The wall of partition is down so that the two are one with each other, sharing the same inheritance.
I think the words "in spirit" say how we of the nations are "one" not only with Jewish "believers" but also with Christ and the Father.
:thumbsup:
I agree. There's no difference between us and them. I am as much a Jew as a Jewish believer. A Jewish believer is as much a Gentile as me. No difference. No distinguishing, and therefore all in one kingdom.
And that "kingdom" is inside you (Luke 17:21).
:iagree:
And we are also inside the kingdom (Colossians 1:13)
Right, the spirit of God is inside and out. In fact there's probably really nothing in between. When they look through a microscope powerful enough, there seems to be mostly space between atoms in matter which are powered by a mysterious force that appears to be aware it is being observed on the quantum level. That's why the atheists' faith in the material world is kind of strange. It seems like they believe in God without knowing it. Then the whole thing about the DNA code in living things is so obvious that they're having to go through all kinds of contortions trying to explain it. It's funny how they're finally willing to acknowledge that it could have come from a superior intelligence, but it had to be aliens in outer space because it couldn't be God.
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 21, 2014, 05:24:08 PM
I'm just wondering and it is an opinion, why did the "mind of CHRIST" in a believer ever venture into a thought like this? If my memory serves, 1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
The "subject" is man. And the Lord God told man, Gen 2:16 And Jehovah God layeth a charge on the man, saying, `Of every tree of the garden eating thou dost eat;
Gen 2:17 and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it--dying thou dost die.'
What The Almighty Redeemer has in His mind for Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth did pass away, and the sea is not any more;
I do not believe should trouble us... Isa. 11:6-9 and Isa. 65:25 I believe are parables. (imo)
To answer your question, "why did the "mind of CHRIST" in a believer ever venture into a thought like this?," I am questioning the accuracy of the translation of Collosians 1:20 in most bibles. The OP was about whether the scripture should be translated "all things" or simply "all [humanity]." As UR believers, we base much of what we believe upon the fact that most mainstream bible translations have translation errors of key Greek and Hebrew words. Those who don't question these things, will never escape from ET prison.
However, don't worry - I'm not troubled over the matter.
Quote from: Tom on October 21, 2014, 11:48:20 PM
Right, the spirit of God is inside and out. In fact there's probably really nothing in between. When they look through a microscope powerful enough, there seems to be mostly space between atoms in matter which are powered by a mysterious force that appears to be aware it is being observed on the quantum level. That's why the atheists' faith in the material world is kind of strange. It seems like they believe in God without knowing it. Then the whole thing about the DNA code in living things is so obvious that they're having to go through all kinds of contortions trying to explain it. It's funny how they're finally willing to acknowledge that it could have come from a superior intelligence, but it had to be aliens in outer space because it couldn't be God.
Yes the smallest (thing) that can be observed by an atomic microscope,
is a stringed vibration.(string theory)
They Can actually see Gods voice vibrating.
Yeah, I've heard about the string theory. We need to concentrate on good vibes, bro.
If you want a good laugh: http://youtu.be/YdGjKAY8WaA
Yeah, that's not the first time I've heard doubts about string theory. Here's a link with some interesting info about how modern physics shows evidence for God. http://godevidence.com/2012/02/god-is-real/ It always makes me laugh when I hear atheists claim believers are anti-science.
I just love how they showed the argument as a conversation about how to raise the kids. That's usually a conversation about religion. :laughing7:
That is their religion, bro.
I wonder what Sheldon's explanation of DNA would be.
His explanation of DNA would be, "Sheldon is awesome."
Yeah, like his explanation for everything. This is what really trips me out about modern physics. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEzRdZGYNvA
Quote from: JBerton on October 17, 2014, 06:14:23 PM
Collosians 1:20
kai di autou apokatallaxai
and through Him to reconcile
ta panta eis auton eirEnopoiEsas
the all into Him making peace
dia tou haimatos tou staurou
through the blood of the cross
autou di autou eite ta
of Him through Him whether the
epi tes ges eite ta en tois
on the earth or the in the
ouranois.
heavens.
I don't see the word "things" in there anywhere.
Yet most bible translations say "all things."
If it does mean all things and not just all people, then:
What about rattlesnakes?
And mosquitoes?
And extinct species?
What about neanderthals?
And wooly mammoths?
First we have "to reconcile the all" and then we have some elipsis: "the [all] on the earth" and "the [all] in the heavens"
This reconciling has to do with all beings which are "estranged and enemies" to God (Col.1:21), who drop their enmity and become friends with God.
Amen.
Quote from: Tony N on October 30, 2014, 10:59:21 PM
Quote from: JBerton on October 17, 2014, 06:14:23 PM
Collosians 1:20
kai di autou apokatallaxai
and through Him to reconcile
ta panta eis auton eirEnopoiEsas
the all into Him making peace
dia tou haimatos tou staurou
through the blood of the cross
autou di autou eite ta
of Him through Him whether the
epi tes ges eite ta en tois
on the earth or the in the
ouranois.
heavens.
I don't see the word "things" in there anywhere.
Yet most bible translations say "all things."
If it does mean all things and not just all people, then:
What about rattlesnakes?
And mosquitoes?
And extinct species?
What about neanderthals?
And wooly mammoths?
First we have "to reconcile the all" and then we have some elipsis: "the [all] on the earth" and "the [all] in the heavens"
This reconciling has to do with all beings which are "estranged and enemies" to God (Col.1:21), who drop their enmity and become friends with God.
:iagree:
Amen :iagree: :dsunny:
Even though you said you're "not UR," it seems you just said you believe it, which is a good, and it has nothing to do with being in a "denomination," right?
No quibbling on this thread! :laughing7:
Yeah, I was going to use that word but figured I better not. It is kind of curious though. Does that mean there's been a conversion or what?
Most of the posts here seem to ask (with regards to animal and plant life) about the possibility of God reconciling all things, or just all humankind, angels etc. This speaks of conciliation of enemies, and may not be an appropriate term for His dealings with the rest of His creation. However, God also declares "Behold, I make all things new!" We have a new heaven, a new earth, new creatures in Christ such as ourselves, etc etc. Is it really too much of a stretch to think that this 'all' may indeed extend to other life forms?
I never had a pet growing up, and this would have been a bit of a moot point. I now have a dog, and this has caused me to muse upon this point, as I have seen how in addition to having a spirit, a dog clearly has a personality, a certain degree of a emotion, and a capability of expressing love. I must admit, I love my dog, and dearly hope he is alive and present in the consummation of all things. This leads me to another logical point - does God love my dog any less than I do? Did he create these animals as things to be discarded and forgotten because they are 'lower life forms', or does He rejoice in them as part of His wonderful creation which He declared to be good?
Remember Balaam's donkey - it's mouth was opened and it was able to express real thought. Is it not more than possible that such a beast is suffering from the fall, and yet will benefit from the restoration?
My personal thought is this - I believe all things will indeed be made new, and yet may not resemble what they are now physically. Speculation on the ages to come is a bit like two babies in a womb speculating over the appearance of a rainbow...who among us have seen what shall be in that time, save that God will be all in all?
We know that not a sparrow falls to the ground without the awareness of our kind Father. If the hairs of our head are all numbered, it is a small thing for Him to have numbered all of the ants, or blades of grass, even as He has numbered the stars and calls them out by name. All things came forth from Him, out of His very substance, whether men or angels or animals or trees, and though they may be changed in order to be made new, who is to say they will not all abide forever, as how can any of His substance be lost, 'like tears in the rain' as it were?
Those are wise words, brother. I think creation and reconciliation have the same scope.
Good Post and thoughts Michael !!! :thumbsup:
I have a couple of dogs that have gone on a Golden Retriever ,'' Sunny Boy'' and and German Shepherd /husky mix '' Moses ''
I still feel them loving thoughts in my heart , they are like family with personalities and so smart !, such a substance of loyal and loving creatures Gods gifts, no doubt ! and miss them to this day !! I understand your expressions exactly !!
All things are for Gods glory , even our beloved ones in the form they are His '' created beings'' to learn from and develop bonds of lasting perfection :flowerred: