Should We Support the building of the Third Temple in Jerusalem?

[marie glen]

There is a reason that some Christians think that a third Temple will be built at the end times.   There are various scriptures that imply this is the case.  As we get closer to imo the end, it makes sense in light of the following facts:  Our leaders are greatly pressuring Israel to make a peace treaty with Palestine.   Israel is not inclined to do this for obvious reasons.  Permission to build a third Temple on the temple mount as part of a peace treaty would greatly sweeten the pot for Israel.  Israel is all ready to go with its third Temple, including artifacts, priests, and red heifer.  They could probably get it going in a matter of months.

I've heard of this..

Some scriptures pointing to a third Temple:

Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate."

--Daniel 9:27


In this case, the 'he' in the passage is "the prince who is to come,"  otherwise known as the Antichrist.  It says he makes a 7 year treaty, which he breaks in the middle of the [week] 7 years, by stopping the sacrifices and offerings, presumably in a Temple, and pouring out desolation on the desolate [the Jews].  He causes desolation with 'the wing of abominations.'


"wing"

H3671
כּנף
kânâph
kaw-nawf'
From H3670; an edge or extremity; specifically (of a bird or army) a wing, (of a garment or bed clothing) a flap, (of the earth) a quarter, (of a building) a pinnacle: -  + bird, border, corner, end, feather [-ed], X flying, + (one an-) other, overspreading, X quarters, skirt, X sort, uttermost part, wing ([-ed]).


"abominations"

H8251
שׁקּץ    שׁקּוּץ
shiqqûts  shiqqûts
shik-koots', shik-koots'
From H8262; disgusting, that is, filthy; especially idolatrous or (concretely) an idol: - abominable filth (idol, -ation), detestable (thing).



So, the 'wing of abominations' could be a destestable, filthy, idolatrous army--  ISIS comes to mind--which has overrun Jerusalem.


20"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. 21"Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city;...

--Luke 21


15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),  16 "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.  17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house.  18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes.  19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!  20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.  21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.  22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.

--Mat 24


Jesus references Daniel 9:27 when telling us what to look for 'standing in the holy place.'   He tells those who are in Judea to flee.  The reason it is thought this is an end time prophecy and not 70ad is his comment about the great tribulation which will not be repeated in human history and which must be shortened or "no flesh would be saved"  of the elect in Israel, that is, the Jews.

thanks for posting those!! awesome verses.. I know that is how it's perceived.. i wonder, or that is, I'm one who wonders if the "holy place" isn't Jerusalem itself - "when you see the abomination which desolates" (666?) "set up in the holy place" - Jerusalem? I've wondered, but could certainly be a third temple...

..and the daily sacrifice and offering.. I get a sense of the Wailing Wall where prayers and sacrifices of thanksgiving are offered every day plus prayers written and put in the stones, offerings of a sort.. Daniel said "when you see the daily sacrifice taken away..three years seven months later" (by Hebrew count) "the abomination of desolation will be set up" - Daniel 12;11,12

And, again, we see Paul referring to this same event:


3Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. 5Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?...

--2 Thess 2:4

This one makes me think of man's theory of evolution (a ridiculous adult fairy tale) :LH: which declares God dead and man a higher power.. deciding good and evil..
   - though of course it could be a third temple..

I also think of the great falling away (of Christendom) and the "strong delusion" as that same full of holes laughable, upside down theory/faith of modern man who is blinded by his own modern miracles and wonders.. :smile:

Again, this is the army of the Antichrist, 'the man of lawlessness,'  'the son of destruction,'  which enters the temple of God and he declares himself to be God.   We know the Antichrist has a proclivity to think of himself as God, and by this time he is indwelt by Satan.

     :Chinscratch: that could be.. "so that he takes his seat in the temple of God".. this is perhaps one point in Bible prophecy which I think could be analogy.. though it's very possibly of course a third temple..

When this event happens, we are beginning the 3.5 years of the great tribulation, referred to by both Daniel and Jesus, and also known as "Jacob's trouble"  by the prophet Jeremiah [Jer 30].

it's my belief the seven year stretch Daniel spoke of is a peace treaty "accord, covenant, league" (strong's#1285) whether it is a world peace, which I tend to think it is, or just a peace truly ratified between Israel and Palestine,who has always refused, I wonder..

And the "tribulation of those days" which Jesus speaks of i tend to think of as following the three years seven months Daniel counts out in Dan 12:11,12... 

"1,290 days (3.5 hebrew years plus one 30 da month) from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, the abomination which makes desolate shall be set up. Blessed be the one who waits and comes to the 1,335th day" - which is 45 days later.

yep, i believe the "tribulation lasts 45 days" with clear ---) signs! I believe the last "ten days" is when "not able to buy and sell" escalates into "will be killed" on a global scale that is.. (if not totally global, pretty much)

"write to the angel of the church of Smyrna... you shall have ten days tribulation.."

("write to the church of Philadelphia" (brotherly love) "I will keep thee from the hour of temptation that is to come...")

Mt 24:1,2 "see all these things?" (the temple complex) "I tell you not one stone shall remain one upon another" - I know the Wailing Wall is not part of a building of the Temple complex, but a wall around the complex.. but I believe Jesus said "see all these.." - Mark 13 says "all these buildings" but Mt 24 and Luke 21 say "things".. ?  :smile:

For these things to happen, it can look like we need a third Temple in Jerusalem.  All these prophecies and more go together.  They do not stand alone to allow for personal interpretation.

Very good verses Molly! :))

[marie glen]

"wing"

H3671
כּנף
kânâph
kaw-nawf'
From H3670; an edge or extremity; specifically (of a bird or army) a wing, (of a garment or bed clothing) a flap, (of the earth) a quarter, (of a building) a pinnacle: -  + bird, border, corner, end, feather [-ed], X flying, + (one an-) other, overspreading, X quarters, skirt, X sort, uttermost part, wing ([-ed]).

    :Chinscratch: ..."a pinnacle of abomination.." ..."overspreading.." .."uttermost quarter (of the earth) pinnacle.."

    very interesting..!

[marie glen]

..if I look at myself personally I doubt I fit into a group. I'm a UR Messanic that believes fragments of many other denominations. Messanic-UR-Baptist-Quaker-Catholic-pre/post millianistic-old earther, WhiteWingist is my denomination  :laugh:

I think that "WhiteWingest" one might be best!  :laugh:

[Seth]

Perhaps we should be be concerned with this temple, and it's being built. :2c:
1Co 3:16  Know ye not that ye are a temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Amen. Jesus came to fulfill the Law and the the Prophets. The temple is being built in Jerusalem this very day. The irony is that when we concentrate on the shadow temple, war, unrest, bloodshed, and discord results in the world. Building that temple means tearing down the the third holiest place in Islam. But when we concentrate on building the temple which is New Jerusalem, peacemaking is possible with all men, Jews or Arab. No more tears, bloodshed, war or pain. No more hurt children or angry men.

Beautiful post Micah  :HeartThrob:

[micah7:9]

Perhaps we should be be concerned with this temple, and it's being built. :2c:
1Co 3:16  Know ye not that ye are a temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Amen. Jesus came to fulfill the Law and the the Prophets. The temple is being built in Jerusalem this very day. The irony is that when we concentrate on the shadow temple, war, unrest, bloodshed, and discord results in the world. Building that temple means tearing down the the third holiest place in Islam. But when we concentrate on building the temple which is New Jerusalem, peacemaking is possible with all men, Jews or Arab. No more tears, bloodshed, war or pain. No more hurt children or angry men.

Beautiful post Micah  :HeartThrob:

Amen my Friend, Amen :dsunny:

[marie glen]

..."Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there."

  I find myself thinking, ..where? what or 'which' worshippers? are in the temple... at that time?.. :Chinscratch:

2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. 3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.

  :Chinscratch: 42 months is also 1,260 days..  :Chinscratch: :Chinscratch: i'm seeing like possibly two filmstrips.. negatives.. the 1,260 days sitting atop/within the 1,290 days written by Daniel? (12;11,12)

4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. 5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6 These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want."

I'm wondering, if the two, do indeed coincide -  the 1,260 of Rev 10 and the 1,290 of Dan 12 - when they are killed.. will be 30 days before the abomination which desolates is 'set-up'... (Daniel 12:12(11) - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel+12%3A11-12&version=NKJV

There's. a lot more in those verses. than the Temple itself if following. Ronen's root word method.
The root of the Hebrew word  for measure means "protect"  "cover wth a garment".
That makes me think back at the 4 angels restraining the winds are actually. holding a clth like the cuppah roof a couple married under.

..."I will keep thee from the hour of temptation that is to try all men.." written "to the angel of the church of Philadelphia" (brotherly love)... "the sun shall not smite thee by day nor any heat.." Rev 7:16

The outer court is not measured/protected.  The outer court is the court of Gentiles.  Unbelievers. Again like the 4 angels who protect the believers but leave unbelievers unprotected.

:2c:

[Tom]

"For you are the temple of the living God, according as God said, that I will be making My home and will be walking in them, and I will be their God, and they shall be My people." (2 Corinthians 6:16)

[Tom]

Many evangelical groups—with Bible prophecy as a motivation—heartily support Israel and the building of a third temple. Some even send considerable sums of money each year for charitable causes in the nation. Similar to some in the Jewish community, they believe supporting Israel will help speed end-time events.

I feel sorry for the Jews that they think they need a building to worship God just like church folks do, but that's their thing. And I think it's kind of a crazy idea that building a new Jewish temple is going to "help speed end-time events" because I'm pretty sure God has his own timetable for his plan.

[micah7:9]

Many evangelical groups—with Bible prophecy as a motivation—heartily support Israel and the building of a third temple. Some even send considerable sums of money each year for charitable causes in the nation. Similar to some in the Jewish community, they believe supporting Israel will help speed end-time events.

I feel sorry for the Jews that they think they need a building to worship God just like church folks do, but that's their thing. And I think it's kind of a crazy idea that building a new Jewish temple is going to "help speed end-time events" because I'm pretty sure God has his own time table for his plan.

I must be in the corner.....Amen!

[WhiteWings]

..."Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there."

  I find myself thinking, ..where? what or 'which' worshippers? are in the temple... at that time?.. :Chinscratch:

I would like to hear that explained by people who believe that temple is their own body. Do they have worshippers inside of them? A court of gentiles?

2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. 3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.

  :Chinscratch: 42 months is also 1,260 days..  :Chinscratch: :Chinscratch: i'm seeing like possibly two filmstrips.. negatives.. the 1,260 days sitting atop/within the 1,290 days written by Daniel? (12;11,12)

Could be a way of pinpointing the timing because leap years are 30 days (extra month) longer.

4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. 5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6 These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want."

I'm wondering, if the two, do indeed coincide -  the 1,260 of Rev 10 and the 1,290 of Dan 12 - when they are killed.. will be 30 days before the abomination which desolates is 'set-up'... (Daniel 12:12(11) - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel+12%3A11-12&version=NKJV

They have the powers of Enoch and Eliah.
Odly enough John also wanted to bring down fire.

[jbertonbounds]

OK, I'm new to this thread at this point. I don't have it in me to read all the posts in this thread at this point, so this may be a repeat. That said:

The Modern nation of Israel is not necessarily Israel.
You can look at it however you choose, but consider this:
Back when Israel divided into two kingdoms, only two tribes split off - Judah and Benjamin.
They became the kingdom of Judah, and the other ten tribes became the kingdom of Israel.
Then later, both kingdoms were taken into captivity, Israel into Assyria, and Judah into Babylon.
After their captivities, Judah (the Judahites and Benjamites) went home to Palestine, BUT Israel (the other ten tribes) never went back.
Israel dispersed.
Where did they go?
One modern theory is that they went north and west into Europe, among other places, and eventually assimilated into the population.
This is my belief.
If this is true, then many Americans are descended, at least in part, from the ten tribes of Israel.
Now, who is this Modern nation called Israel?
For the most part, they are descendents of the Judahites and Benjamites.
They are not Israel, they are only PART of Israel - only two of the tribes.
And many of them are mixed in heredity.

That said, IMO, I do not consider the modern political entity to be THE nation of Israel as spoken of in the word.
The important thing is that, under the new covenant, it is the believers who are the new nation of Israel.
The Vine and the Branches (both natural branches and grafted-in branches).
The Savior and his ecclesia.

Now, that said, those who send money to help people in Israel put their lives back together after war tears them apart are doing the work of Jesus the christ.
Those who send money to help anyone anywhere WILL BE BLESSED!
You cannot go wrong helping others out of a genuine heart of love for other people.
As for sending money to help rebuild a temple for another religion, or to help with their nation's political agendas? I am not speaking of that.

[micah7:9]

Quote from: WhiteWings on Today at 05:09:58 PM

..."Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there."


  I find myself thinking, ..where? what or 'which' worshippers? are in the temple... at that time?.. :Chinscratch:
I would like to hear that explained by people who believe that temple is their own body. Do they have worshippers inside of them? A court of gentiles?

I have not looked into it, but perhaps they could be found in Rev. 2 and 3 :2c:

[WhiteWings]

The question is,  is Israel the people or the land?
If everyone one with a single drop of Jewish/Israelian blood was removed from Jerusalem. would you still call it Jerusalem? 

In other words Israel without Israeli is stll the promised land Israel.

[Molly]

Many evangelical groups—with Bible prophecy as a motivation—heartily support Israel and the building of a third temple. Some even send considerable sums of money each year for charitable causes in the nation. Similar to some in the Jewish community, they believe supporting Israel will help speed end-time events.

I feel sorry for the Jews that they think they need a building to worship God just like church folks do, but that's their thing. And I think it's kind of a crazy idea that building a new Jewish temple is going to "help speed end-time events" because I'm pretty sure God has his own time table for his plan.

It's not a matter of 'speeding end time events.'   We cannot really do that.  In fact, we are told the bridegroom tarries.


"Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.  2 Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish.  3 Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them,  4 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.  5 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.

--Mat 25

[Tom]

OK, I'm new to this thread at this point. I don't have it in me to read all the posts in this thread at this point, so this may be a repeat. That said:

The Modern nation of Israel is not necessarily Israel.
You can look at it however you choose, but consider this:
Back when Israel divided into two kingdoms, only two tribes split off - Judah and Benjamin.
They became the kingdom of Judah, and the other ten tribes became the kingdom of Israel.
Then later, both kingdoms were taken into captivity, Israel into Assyria, and Judah into Babylon.
After their captivities, Judah (the Judahites and Benjamites) went home to Palestine, BUT Israel (the other ten tribes) never went back.
Israel dispersed.
Where did they go?
One modern theory is that they went north and west into Europe, among other places, and eventually assimilated into the population.
This is my belief.
If this is true, then many Americans are descended, at least in part, from the ten tribes of Israel.
Now, who is this Modern nation called Israel?
For the most part, they are descendents of the Judahites and Benjamites.
They are not Israel, they are only PART of Israel - only two of the tribes.
And many of them are mixed in heredity.

That said, IMO, I do not consider the modern political entity to be THE nation of Israel as spoken of in the word.
The important thing is that, under the new covenant, it is the believers who are the new nation of Israel.
The Vine and the Branches (both natural branches and grafted-in branches).
The Savior and his ecclesia.

Now, that said, those who send money to help people in Israel put their lives back together after war tears them apart are doing the work of Jesus the christ.
Those who send money to help anyone anywhere WILL BE BLESSED!
You cannot go wrong helping others out of a genuine heart of love for other people.
As for sending money to help rebuild a temple for another religion, or to help with their nation's political agendas? I am not speaking of that.

I think you're right, bro. I think everybody should send me some money so you can be blessed.

[micah7:9]

 :Peace2:

[Molly]

The question is,  is Israel the people or the land?
If everyone one with a single drop of Jewish/Israelian blood was removed from Jerusalem. would you still call it Jerusalem? 

In other words Israel without Israeli is stll the promised land Israel.

Israel is another name for Jesus.  And, for the people of God--Jews and Gentiles.  The land is promised to Israel by God in an everlasting covenant.  Jesus and his saints--the Israel of God-- will rule and reign from Jerusalem on earth.

"Israel"

H3478
ישׂראל
yiśrâ'êl
yis-raw-ale'
From H8280 and H410; he will rule as God; Jisrael, a symbolical name of Jacob; also (typically) of his posterity: - Israel.

[Molly]

OK, I'm new to this thread at this point. I don't have it in me to read all the posts in this thread at this point, so this may be a repeat. That said:

The Modern nation of Israel is not necessarily Israel.
You can look at it however you choose, but consider this:
Back when Israel divided into two kingdoms, only two tribes split off - Judah and Benjamin.
They became the kingdom of Judah, and the other ten tribes became the kingdom of Israel.
Then later, both kingdoms were taken into captivity, Israel into Assyria, and Judah into Babylon.
After their captivities, Judah (the Judahites and Benjamites) went home to Palestine, BUT Israel (the other ten tribes) never went back.
Israel dispersed.
Where did they go?
One modern theory is that they went north and west into Europe, among other places, and eventually assimilated into the population.
This is my belief.
If this is true, then many Americans are descended, at least in part, from the ten tribes of Israel.
Now, who is this Modern nation called Israel?
For the most part, they are descendents of the Judahites and Benjamites.
They are not Israel, they are only PART of Israel - only two of the tribes.
And many of them are mixed in heredity.

That said, IMO, I do not consider the modern political entity to be THE nation of Israel as spoken of in the word.
The important thing is that, under the new covenant, it is the believers who are the new nation of Israel.
The Vine and the Branches (both natural branches and grafted-in branches).
The Savior and his ecclesia.

Now, that said, those who send money to help people in Israel put their lives back together after war tears them apart are doing the work of Jesus the christ.
Those who send money to help anyone anywhere WILL BE BLESSED!
You cannot go wrong helping others out of a genuine heart of love for other people.
As for sending money to help rebuild a temple for another religion, or to help with their nation's political agendas? I am not speaking of that.

I think you're right, bro. I think everybody should send me some money so you can be blessed.

I agree with half of what you say.  The church is the house of Israel, the birthright being given to Joseph in double portion through his two sons Ephraim and Manasseh.  Jesus came the first time as the suffering servant, Messiah ben Joseph, for the house of Israel.

Jesus will come the second time for the house of Judah, modern day country of Israel, as Messiah ben David, the Lion of the tribe of Judah.  He will destroy Judah's enemies.  Judah was given the scepter by Jacob until Shiloh come.

Many Rabbi's are aware of this and think it is referring to two Messiahs.  It is really one Messiah coming twice, so that both houses will be delivered at different times.

But, then I am a literal reader of the Bible.  It's a great story when you read it literally.


16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:

17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

--Ezekiel 37

[Tom]

..."Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there."

  I find myself thinking, ..where? what or 'which' worshippers? are in the temple... at that time?.. :Chinscratch:

I would like to hear that explained by people who believe that temple is their own body. Do they have worshippers inside of them? A court of gentiles?

2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. 3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.

  :Chinscratch: 42 months is also 1,260 days..  :Chinscratch: :Chinscratch: i'm seeing like possibly two filmstrips.. negatives.. the 1,260 days sitting atop/within the 1,290 days written by Daniel? (12;11,12)

Could be a way of pinpointing the timing because leap years are 30 days (extra month) longer.

4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. 5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6 These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want."

I'm wondering, if the two, do indeed coincide -  the 1,260 of Rev 10 and the 1,290 of Dan 12 - when they are killed.. will be 30 days before the abomination which desolates is 'set-up'... (Daniel 12:12(11) - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel+12%3A11-12&version=NKJV

They have the powers of Enoch and Eliah.
Odly enough John also wanted to bring down fire.

Regarding the question: "I would like to hear that explained by people who believe that temple is their own body. Do they have worshippers inside of them? A court of gentiles?" I think some may disagree, but I don't think we believers of the nations are the New Jerusalem temple.

[Tom]

OK, I'm new to this thread at this point. I don't have it in me to read all the posts in this thread at this point, so this may be a repeat. That said:

The Modern nation of Israel is not necessarily Israel.
You can look at it however you choose, but consider this:
Back when Israel divided into two kingdoms, only two tribes split off - Judah and Benjamin.
They became the kingdom of Judah, and the other ten tribes became the kingdom of Israel.
Then later, both kingdoms were taken into captivity, Israel into Assyria, and Judah into Babylon.
After their captivities, Judah (the Judahites and Benjamites) went home to Palestine, BUT Israel (the other ten tribes) never went back.
Israel dispersed.
Where did they go?
One modern theory is that they went north and west into Europe, among other places, and eventually assimilated into the population.
This is my belief.
If this is true, then many Americans are descended, at least in part, from the ten tribes of Israel.
Now, who is this Modern nation called Israel?
For the most part, they are descendents of the Judahites and Benjamites.
They are not Israel, they are only PART of Israel - only two of the tribes.
And many of them are mixed in heredity.

That said, IMO, I do not consider the modern political entity to be THE nation of Israel as spoken of in the word.
The important thing is that, under the new covenant, it is the believers who are the new nation of Israel.
The Vine and the Branches (both natural branches and grafted-in branches).
The Savior and his ecclesia.

Now, that said, those who send money to help people in Israel put their lives back together after war tears them apart are doing the work of Jesus the christ.
Those who send money to help anyone anywhere WILL BE BLESSED!
You cannot go wrong helping others out of a genuine heart of love for other people.
As for sending money to help rebuild a temple for another religion, or to help with their nation's political agendas? I am not speaking of that.

I think you're right, bro. I think everybody should send me some money so you can be blessed.

I agree with half of what you say.  The church is the house of Israel, the birthright being given to Joseph in double portion through his two sons Ephraim and Manasseh.  Jesus came the first time as the suffering servant, Messiah ben Joseph, for the house of Israel.

Jesus will come the second time for the house of Judah, modern day country of Israel, as Messiah ben David, the Lion of the tribe of Judah.  He will destroy Judah's enemies.  Judah was given the scepter by Jacob until Shiloh come.

Many Rabbi's are aware of this and think it is referring to two Messiahs.  It is really one Messiah coming twice, so that both houses will be delivered at different times.

But, then I am a literal reader of the Bible.  It's a great story when you read it literally.


16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:

17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

--Ezekiel 37

You quoted me, sis, but I only said, "I think you're right, bro. I think everybody should send me some money so you can be blessed."

[rosered]

Quote from: WhiteWings on Today at 05:09:58 PM

..."Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there."


  I find myself thinking, ..where? what or 'which' worshippers? are in the temple... at that time?.. :Chinscratch:
I would like to hear that explained by people who believe that temple is their own body. Do they have worshippers inside of them? A court of gentiles?

I have not looked into it, but perhaps they could be found in Rev. 2 and 3 :2c:

  I really , really
  dont think anyone   would understand   ,here is a shot  of trying


we are  designed     as the temple pattern      the outer court   inner court and holy of holies   [the Lamb &God ]     
the outer court is our flesh             ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, all    flesh defiles   the temple of which you are


  the inner court is the pattern where   Jesus though tat veil  His flesh as  torn  the barrier    between God and man  possible 

we fellowship      with one another

In Hebrews   we can tell  how the old is gone and NEW and Living way is brought   by Jesus  entering Heaven   and opened for us

   its in your heart     all things  are in   your heart     [God and &Lamb ] are ruling and regining in your heart  and we have the True oneness and   fellowship   
   with the great cloud of witnesses

  we are actually as ONE AND   WORSHIPING     GOD    IN SPIRIT AND TRUTH


THis is how we will be One  faith one baptism one     !!  of your fellow  worship God   and the huge  stumbling block is this
   for many the second coming of Christ is   already happened   for them
  and for many the   blindness  and   no faith has  kept them out   as stopped   them

and they wait  come a second time so also the Christ, once having been offered to bear the sins of many, a second time, apart from a sin-offering, shall appear, to those waiting for him -- to salvation!   Hebrews  9

  for me that is the Holy place

  our fellowship is with sion

where  the true worshipers dwell      Hebrews 12  22But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, 23to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,...

you see we are   in the place were we do not go up
   It comes down to us
ascended anytime

Jesus and Nicodemus
...12"If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13"No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man. 14"As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up;




1And he showed me a river of the water of life, pure and clear as crystal, and it went out from the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2And in the center of the street on this side and on that, upon the river, The Tree of Life which produces twelve fruits, and every month it gives its fruits and its leaves for the healing of the peoples. 3And no curse shall be there, and the throne of God and of The Lamb shall be in it, and his Servants shall serve him. 4And they shall see his face and his Name shall be upon their foreheads. 5And there shall be no night there and neither will they need lights,* lamps, or the light of the Sun, because THE LORD JEHOVAH God gives them light, and he is their King* for the eternity of eternities.
6And he said to me, "These words are trustworthy and true, and THE LORD JEHOVAH, God of The Spirit of The Holy Prophets, has sent his Angel to show his Servants what is granted to happen soon."

7"And behold, I come soon. Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book."

8I am Yohannan, who saw and heard these things. And when I saw and heard, I fell to worship before the feet of the Angel who was showing me these things. 9And he said to me: "Seer, no!* I am your fellow Servant and of your brothers the Prophets and of those who observe these words of this book. Worship God!"

10And he said to me, "Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near." 11"And he who does evil, will do evil again; he who is foul, again will be polluted; the righteous again will do righteousness and the holy will again be hallowed."

12"Behold, I come at once, and my reward is with me, and I shall give to every person according to his work." 13"I am Alap and I am Tau, The First and The Last, The Origin and The Fulfillment."*

14"Blessings to those who are doing his Commandments; their authority shall be over The Tree of Life, and they shall enter The City by the gates." 15"And outside are fornicators, murderers, idol worshipers, the defiled, sorcerers and all seers* and workers of lies."

16I, Yeshua, have sent my Angel to testify these things among you before the assemblies. I AM THE LIVING GOD, The Root and The Offspring of David, and his Companion*, and The Bright Morning Star."

17"And The Spirit and The Bride are saying, 'Come', and let him who hears, say, "Come", and let him who thirsts* come and take the water of life without charge."

18"I testify to everyone who hears the word of the prophecy of this book: Whoever will place upon these things, God shall place upon him the plagues that are written in this book." 19"And whoever subtracts from the words of the Scripture of this prophecy, God shall subtract his part from The Tree of Life and from The Holy City, those things which are written in this book."

20And when he testified these things, he said, "Yes*, I am coming soon." "Come, LORD JEHOVAH Yeshua

there is no way humanly possible for any man to recognize   Jesus Christ

   every time it was a spiritual experience    and extremely difficult     to keep  something that holy and pure from being defiled from   a carnal mind   the true enmity against the Spirit   of God and grace and   holiness

  only hope it will help open    , open our hearts to Gods love and great   glory , to be known and seen and  understood   in the hearts  , His  treasures For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

[Seth]

The question is,  is Israel the people or the land?
If everyone one with a single drop of Jewish/Israelian blood was removed from Jerusalem. would you still call it Jerusalem? 

In other words Israel without Israeli is stll the promised land Israel.

Or, is it a house? A family name which does not necessarily encompass physical descendants. Don't take this the wrong way, but think about a house as in the mafia. You can be part of that house without being blood relative if you are sworn in and counted as a member of the house.

[Seth]

Many evangelical groups—with Bible prophecy as a motivation—heartily support Israel and the building of a third temple. Some even send considerable sums of money each year for charitable causes in the nation. Similar to some in the Jewish community, they believe supporting Israel will help speed end-time events.

I feel sorry for the Jews that they think they need a building to worship God just like church folks do, but that's their thing. And I think it's kind of a crazy idea that building a new Jewish temple is going to "help speed end-time events" because I'm pretty sure God has his own time table for his plan.

It's not a matter of 'speeding end time events.'   We cannot really do that.  In fact, we are told the bridegroom tarries.


"Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.  2 Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish.  3 Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them,  4 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.  5 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.

--Mat 25

It that is case, then Christian leaders can stop trying to block peace treaties, and led peace reign, and allow God to whatever he will do.

[Seth]

..."Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there."

  I find myself thinking, ..where? what or 'which' worshippers? are in the temple... at that time?.. :Chinscratch:

I would like to hear that explained by people who believe that temple is their own body. Do they have worshippers inside of them? A court of gentiles?

2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. 3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.

  :Chinscratch: 42 months is also 1,260 days..  :Chinscratch: :Chinscratch: i'm seeing like possibly two filmstrips.. negatives.. the 1,260 days sitting atop/within the 1,290 days written by Daniel? (12;11,12)

Could be a way of pinpointing the timing because leap years are 30 days (extra month) longer.

4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. 5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6 These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want."

I'm wondering, if the two, do indeed coincide -  the 1,260 of Rev 10 and the 1,290 of Dan 12 - when they are killed.. will be 30 days before the abomination which desolates is 'set-up'... (Daniel 12:12(11) - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel+12%3A11-12&version=NKJV

They have the powers of Enoch and Eliah.
Odly enough John also wanted to bring down fire.

Regarding the question: "I would like to hear that explained by people who believe that temple is their own body. Do they have worshippers inside of them? A court of gentiles?" I think some may disagree, but I don't think we believers of the nations are the New Jerusalem temple.

New Jerusalem doesn't have a temple in the book of Revelation.

Revelation 21
22 I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.

Christ is the fulfillment of the prophets just like he said he was.

[Seth]

We are the temple and the temple is within us. The father was in Christ just as Christ was in Hs father.