Should We Support the building of the Third Temple in Jerusalem?

[Seth]

1John 3
22And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

The Jews do not believe in Jesus Christ and they are not obedient to his commandments. And just like Paul said, they are not the seed of Isaac, or of Abraham. This is what I don't like about Dispensationalism. It diminishes the importance for the Jews to believe in Christ in this life, even though it is the front and center commandment of God for everyone.

[dajomaco]

The end timers think that some how if they help defend Israel as a nation,
by helping them through violence to secure their land.
This will start the End

They for some reason are to embarrassed to share the Good News of the Gospel.
They will not ask them to look to the Cross.

The first to hear will be the last to hear then the End

How beautiful on the mountains
    are the feet of those who bring good news,
who proclaim peace,
    who bring good tidings,
    who proclaim salvation,
who say to Zion,
    "Your God reigns!"
8 Listen! Your watchmen lift up their voices;
    together they shout for joy.
When the LORD returns to Zion,
    they will see it with their own eyes.

14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"[g]
16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?"[h] 17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ. 18 But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:
"Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
    their words to the ends of the world."
19 Again I ask: Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says,
"I will make you envious by those who are not a nation;
    I will make you angry by a nation that has no understanding."[j]
20 And Isaiah boldly says,
"I was found by those who did not seek me;
    I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me."[k]
21 But concerning Israel he says,
"All day long I have held out my hands
    to a disobedient and obstinate people."[l]


The Good News does NOT include Hell

[Molly]

1John 3
22And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

The Jews do not believe in Jesus Christ and they are not obedient to his commandments. And just like Paul said, they are not the seed of Isaac, or of Abraham. This is what I don't like about Dispensationalism. It diminishes the importance for the Jews to believe in Christ in this life, even though it is the front and center commandment of God for everyone.

But this has all been explained in the Bible.  The Jews do not believe Jesus is the Messiah.   But they do worship YHWH.  It is a matter of successive revelation.  We read the whole Bible, they don't.   But Paul is quite clear about the Jews--

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.  29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.  30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience,  31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy.  32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

--Romans 11

[Seth]

1John 3
22And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

The Jews do not believe in Jesus Christ and they are not obedient to his commandments. And just like Paul said, they are not the seed of Isaac, or of Abraham. This is what I don't like about Dispensationalism. It diminishes the importance for the Jews to believe in Christ in this life, even though it is the front and center commandment of God for everyone.

But this has all been explained in the Bible.  The Jews do not believe Jesus is the Messiah.   But they do worship YHWH.  It is a matter of successive revelation.  We read the whole Bible, they don't.   But Paul is quite clear about the Jews--

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.  29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.  30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience,  31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy.  32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

--Romans 11

It's interesting that you do not deny that Dispensationalism diminishes the need for the Jews to believe in Christ in this life.

What Paul was clear about in that Romans 11 passage is the OT promise he quotes, an unconditional election to have ungodliness turned away from the Jews. His point was that, although God has defined the seed of Abraham through Christ, God has not forgotten the promise he made that they are elected to be saved from sin. So it is that all Israel shall be saved after the fullness of the Gentiles is come in.

The position of being Gods people was never based in the guarantee of the flesh, but of God's calling and it was always conditional based on obedience. Paul was not saying that they are still the seed of Abraham. They aren't. He is affirming the unconditional covenant he made to save them from ungodliness.

[Molly]

1John 3
22And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

The Jews do not believe in Jesus Christ and they are not obedient to his commandments. And just like Paul said, they are not the seed of Isaac, or of Abraham. This is what I don't like about Dispensationalism. It diminishes the importance for the Jews to believe in Christ in this life, even though it is the front and center commandment of God for everyone.

But this has all been explained in the Bible.  The Jews do not believe Jesus is the Messiah.   But they do worship YHWH.  It is a matter of successive revelation.  We read the whole Bible, they don't.   But Paul is quite clear about the Jews--

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.  29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.  30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience,  31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy.  32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

--Romans 11

It's interesting that you do not deny that Dispensationalism diminishes the need for the Jews to believe in Christ in this life.

What Paul was clear about in that Romans 11 passage is the OT promise he quotes, an unconditional election to have ungodliness turned away from the Jews. His point was that, although God has defined the seed of Abraham through Christ, God has not forgotten the promise he made that they are elected to be saved from sin. So it is that all Israel shall be saved after the fullness of the Gentiles is come in.

Paul was not saying that they are still the seed of Abraham. They aren't. He is affirming the unconditional covenant he made to save them from ungodliness.

You'll have to forgive me.  I will never understand words like 'dispensationalist.' It's not worth my time.  I'm just reading the Bible as best I can.

You are saying the Jews are not the seed of Abraham.  The seed of Abraham is Christ.  You, Seth,  know you have the seed of Abraham, meaning Christ in you the hope of glory.  The hope of glory.  What is that?  A glorified body?  You might be right that will not be given to [some of] them, I don't know.  But they will be present during the millennium because Daniel tells us [and Jesus, too] they will be in the first resurrection.



"At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.

2
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3
Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.

--Daniel 12



"I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.

--Zech 12

[dajomaco]

Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory.

11 Here is a trustworthy saying:

If we died with him,
    we will also live with him;
12 if we endure,
    we will also reign with him.
If we disown him,
    he will also disown us;
13 if we are faithless,
    he remains faithful,
    for he cannot disown himself.

[Seth]

1John 3
22And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

The Jews do not believe in Jesus Christ and they are not obedient to his commandments. And just like Paul said, they are not the seed of Isaac, or of Abraham. This is what I don't like about Dispensationalism. It diminishes the importance for the Jews to believe in Christ in this life, even though it is the front and center commandment of God for everyone.

But this has all been explained in the Bible.  The Jews do not believe Jesus is the Messiah.   But they do worship YHWH.  It is a matter of successive revelation.  We read the whole Bible, they don't.   But Paul is quite clear about the Jews--

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.  29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.  30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience,  31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy.  32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

--Romans 11

It's interesting that you do not deny that Dispensationalism diminishes the need for the Jews to believe in Christ in this life.

What Paul was clear about in that Romans 11 passage is the OT promise he quotes, an unconditional election to have ungodliness turned away from the Jews. His point was that, although God has defined the seed of Abraham through Christ, God has not forgotten the promise he made that they are elected to be saved from sin. So it is that all Israel shall be saved after the fullness of the Gentiles is come in.

Paul was not saying that they are still the seed of Abraham. They aren't. He is affirming the unconditional covenant he made to save them from ungodliness.

You'll have to forgive me.  I will never understand words like 'dispensationalist.' It's not worth my time.  I'm just reading the Bible as best I can.

You are saying the Jews are not the seed of Abraham.  The seed of Abraham is Christ.  You, Seth,  know you have the seed of Abraham, meaning Christ in you the hope of glory.  The hope of glory.  What is that?  A glorified body?  You might be right that will not be given to [some of] them, I don't know.  But they will be present during the millennium because Daniel tells us [and Jesus, too] they will be in the first resurrection.



"At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.

2
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
Some to everlasting life,
Some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3
Those who are wise shall shine
Like the brightness of the firmament,
And those who turn many to righteousness
Like the stars forever and ever.

--Daniel 12



"I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him like the bitter weeping over a firstborn.

--Zech 12

Dispensationalism is the belief that God has two people of God, and that belief in Christ is unnecessary to be called a people of God. They believe this based on the idea that genetic heritage seals them as God's people, rather than the calling, and obedience. The Hebrew Bible itself disproves that notion along with the teachings of the New Testament.

I agree that all Israel shall be saved, but that the first shall be last as Jesus said. They shall come in after the fullness of the Gentiles have come in.

[Tom]

I'm starting to feel like I'm back on christainchat.com where there is a continuous debate about Covenant Theology vs. Dispensationalism. I think the Jews were God's chosen people before we were, and we've only become so through Christ. I also believe a time will come according to God's will that the Jews will receive their Messiah. I have no desire to debate Convenant Theology vs. Dispensationalism. I think what's important is to study the word of God and interpret it according to your own understanding, and it's unnecessary to categorize that according to various kinds of "theology" or "denominations." I think it's a matter of personal perspective through personal interpretation of scripture which shouldn't divide believers.

"But, I am saying, Did not Israel know at all? First Moses is saying, I shall be provoking you to jealousy over those not a nation; Over an unintelligent nation shall I be vexing you. Yet Isaiah is very daring and is saying, I was found by those who are not seeking Me; I became disclosed to those who are not inquiring for Me. Now to Israel He is saying, The whole day I spread out My hands to a stubborn and contradicting people! I am saying, then, Does not God thrust away His people? May it not be coming to that! For I also am an Israelite, out of Abraham's seed, Benjamin's tribe. God does not thrust away His people whom He foreknew. Or have you not perceived in Elijah what the scripture is saying, as he is pleading with God against Israel? Lord, Thy prophets they kill, Thine altars they dig down, and I was left alone, and they are seeking my soul. But what is that which apprises saying to him? I left for Myself seven thousand men who do not bow the knee to the image of Baal. Thus, then, in the current era also, there has come to be a remnant according to the choice of grace. Now if it is in grace, it is no longer out of works, else the grace is coming to be no longer grace. Now, if it is out of works, it is no longer grace, else the work is no longer work. What then? What Israel is seeking for, this she did not encounter, yet the chosen encountered it. Now the rest were calloused, even as it is written, God gives them a spirit of stupor, eyes not to be observing, and ears not to be hearing, till this very day." (Romans 10:19-11:8) 

"On this behalf I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you, the nations--since you surely hear of the administration of the grace of God that is given to me for you, for by revelation the secret is made known to me (according as I write before, in brief, by which you who are reading are able to apprehend my understanding in the secret of the Christ, which, in other generations, is not made known to the sons of humanity as it was now revealed to His holy apostles and prophets): in spirit the nations are to be joint enjoyers of an allotment, and a joint body, and joint partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus, through the evangel of which I became the dispenser, in accord with the gratuity of the grace of God, which is granted to me in accord with His powerful operation." (Ephesians 3:1-7)

[Seth]

What is wrong with categorizing? I am a Christian. I also don't mind being called a Christian universalist so long as it's properly understood. If Molly does not consider herself a dispensationalist, that's totally fine. I am not calling her one. She did say " Seth, the elect are in two different dispensations with regard to their knowledge and understanding of Christ." Which, call me mad, silly, crazy is pretty much a dispensationalism viewpoint. If I am wrong, I don't mind being corrected. But the theology of dispensationalism does exist and I don't see a reason not to talk about it. Some may agree with it and others may disagree. I personally disagree. Is there a problem saying so? I think RaiderGonzo brought up a question and we are discussing it. Should we have just ignored him?

[Tom]

I didn't say categorizing is wrong. I just gave my own personal opinion when I said I think it's unnecessary to categorize "theology" because I think it can get to be divisive and counterproductive. If you want to do so, go for it, brother. I just saw so much of that Covenant Theology vs. Dispensationalism on christianchat.com that I got burned out with it, and I thought it would be much better if folks were communicating more about what they agree on. I think contention among believers can be misunderstood by some folks especially unbelievers. I've heard that "Christianity" has been like that since the beginning though. That's why the church tried to establish control with creeds and accusations of heresy. I myself am a happy heretic though who doesn't conform to any labels easily. I even hesitate to call myself a "Christian" when asked because of all that has come to mean in the world due to the distorted doctrine of the church, but I definitely believe Christ died to save all mankind and to reconcile all on earth and in the heavens to God so that God may be all in all. So you would probably call me a "Christian Universalist." You would probably say I'm guilty of "Dispensationalism" too because, from what I've read, I tend to agree more with that kind of thinking than "Covenant Theology," but, like I said, I'm not interested in debating "theology." I realize a forum is for folks to all express their own opinions which we do. If you want to debate yours, go for it. I'm not saying you're "wrong" or need to be "corrected" as you said. I'll just say I don't see some things your way once in awhile even though we agree on other things. So I think we should just agree to disagree on those things we do, but, despite our different perspectives, we are all still one in Christ. That's why I think the differences are relatively unimportant, but again I say that's just my own personal opinion. I think we're all just believers because I think most of us on this site agree that Christ died for our sins and was resurrected from the dead. After that we all have various things that we see differently. In fact some folks even see that differently because some don't think Christ really died, but that's another subject of debate depending on your "theology." I guess I'm just getting too old to want to squabble anymore over whether it's six or a half dozen or toe-MAY-toe or toe-MAH-toe. I don't take life that seriously anymore. I find some of the debates kind of amusing actually, but I don't want to offend anybody. So I just let folks do their thing and communicate about other things of interest. Then sometimes I just have to take a break from the action and enjoy some peace and quiet. That's when I really feel blessed by the spirit.   

[Seth]

I agree with much of what you said. But, I want to be clear, that I don't believe one can be "guilty" of dispensationalism. I see it as a way of understanding the scripture, but I just disagree with it and I have reasons for that. One of the is what I perceive to be a relaxation of the necessity of Jews to believe in Christ in this life, which, I am sorry, I believe is an important issue. Belief in Christ is a sticking point to the Gospel shared by the apostles and Christ himself. I don't hold anyone to guilt for their beliefs but discussing them does not necessary division. Disagreement doesn't necessarily mean division of people, just different ideas.

[Tom]

I was being facetious with the word "guilty," bro. I don't think there's "a relaxation of the necessity of Jews to believe in Christ in this life." I see it rather as an understanding that it is God who has temporarily blinded them for the purpose of bringing the nations into the fold, and, when it is his time to do so, he will bring them to Christ. I think we should share the evangel with them and all who need it, but it is God who will draw them to himself according to his will when he chooses to do so. I think these are details that we can consider intelligently as long as we do it in the spirit of love. I can see you're passionate about your beliefs. Have you discussed the evangel much with Jews?

[Seth]

I may have discussed it without knowing they were Jewish, but I created my website to discuss it with as many people as I can afford to bring there via clicks.

[Tom]

And who knows how many may be lurking here?

[Seth]

Yeah maybe.

[Tom]

I think we have a moderator who is a Messianic Jew, right?

[Tom]

I think it's just a matter of time, bro.

[Seth]

I think it's just a matter of time, bro.

Definitely. This is not a primary issue with me. Though I think Paul wrote extensively enough about it as a defense against circumcision and sabbath pushing, I think the true Gospel is salvation through Christ, and also that all will be saved.

[Tom]

I agree. The epistle to the Galatians was a warning against "judaizing." We're not proselytes of Israel. We just happened to recognize their Messiah before they did, but it's according to God's will.

[WhiteWings]

What is wrong with categorizing?

In theory, nothing because in one word you understand the mindset of the person you are talking to. But if I look at myself personally I doubt I fit into a group. I'm a UR Messanic that believes fragments of many other denominations. Messanic-UR-Baptist-Quaker-Catholic-pre/post millianistic-old earther, WhiteWingist is my denomination  :laugh:

[Molly]

There is a reason that some Christians think that a third Temple will be built at the end times.   There are various scriptures that imply this is the case.  As we get closer to imo the end, it makes sense in light of the following facts:  Our leaders are greatly pressuring Israel to make a peace treaty with Palestine.   Israel is not inclined to do this for obvious reasons.  Permission to build a third Temple on the temple mount as part of a peace treaty would greatly sweeten the pot for Israel.  Israel is all ready to go with its third Temple, including artifacts, priests, and red heifer.  They could probably get it going in a matter of months.

Some scriptures pointing to a third Temple:

Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate."

--Daniel 9:27


In this case, the 'he' in the passage is "the prince who is to come,"  otherwise known as the Antichrist.  It says he makes a 7 year treaty, which he breaks in the middle of the [week] 7 years, by stopping the sacrifices and offerings, presumably in a Temple, and pouring out desolation on the desolate [the Jews].  He causes desolation with 'the wing of abominations.'


"wing"

H3671
כּנף
kânâph
kaw-nawf'
From H3670; an edge or extremity; specifically (of a bird or army) a wing, (of a garment or bed clothing) a flap, (of the earth) a quarter, (of a building) a pinnacle: -  + bird, border, corner, end, feather [-ed], X flying, + (one an-) other, overspreading, X quarters, skirt, X sort, uttermost part, wing ([-ed]).


"abominations"

H8251
שׁקּץ    שׁקּוּץ
shiqqûts  shiqqûts
shik-koots', shik-koots'
From H8262; disgusting, that is, filthy; especially idolatrous or (concretely) an idol: - abominable filth (idol, -ation), detestable (thing).



So, the 'wing of abominations' could be a destestable, filthy, idolatrous army--  ISIS comes to mind--which has overrun Jerusalem.


20"But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. 21"Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city;...

--Luke 21


15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand),  16 "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.  17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house.  18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes.  19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!  20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.  21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.  22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.

--Mat 24


Jesus references Daniel 9:27 when telling us what to look for 'standing in the holy place.'   He tells those who are in Judea to flee.  The reason it is thought this is an end time prophecy and not 70ad is his comment about the great tribulation which will not be repeated in human history and which must be shortened or "no flesh would be saved"  of the elect in Israel, that is, the Jews.


And, again, we see Paul referring to this same event:


3Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. 5Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?...

--2 Thess 2:4


Again, this is the army of the Antichrist, 'the man of lawlessness,'  'the son of destruction,'  which enters the temple of God and he declares himself to be God.   We know the Antichrist has a proclivity to think of himself as God, and by this time he is indwelt by Satan.

When this event happens, we are beginning the 3.5 years of the great tribulation, referred to by both Daniel and Jesus, and also known as "Jacob's trouble"  by the prophet Jeremiah [Jer 30].

For these things to happen, it can look like we need a third Temple in Jerusalem.  All these prophecies and more go together.  They do not stand alone to allow for personal interpretation.

[micah7:9]

Perhaps we should be be concerned with this temple, and it's being built. :2c:
1Co 3:16  Know ye not that ye are a temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

[WhiteWings]

Rev 11:1-6 I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, "Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there. 2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. 3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. 5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6 These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want."

There's. a lot more in those verses. than the Temple itself if following. Ronen's root word method.
The root of the Hebrew word  for measure means "protect"  "cover wth a garment".
That makes me think back at the 4 angels restraining the winds are actually. holding a clth like the cuppah roof a couple married under.

The outer court is not measured/protected.  The outer court is the court of Gentiles.  Unbelievers. Again like the 4 angels who protect the believers but leave unbelievers unprotected.

:2c:

[marie glen]

Rev 11:1-6 I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, "Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there. 2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. 3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. 5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6 These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want."

There's. a lot more in those verses. than the Temple itself if following. Ronen's root word method.
The root of the Hebrew word  for measure means "protect"  "cover wth a garment".
That makes me think back at the 4 angels restraining the winds are actually. holding a clth like the cuppah roof a couple married under.

The outer court is not measured/protected.  The outer court is the court of Gentiles.  Unbelievers. Again like the 4 angels who protect the believers but leave unbelievers unprotected.

:2c:

    :thumbsup: :thumbsup: ..that's very good! I like that.. makes sense..  :Chinscratch: It feels true!

[rosered]

Rev 11:1-6 I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, "Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there. 2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. 3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. 5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6 These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want."

There's. a lot more in those verses. than the Temple itself if following. Ronen's root word method.
The root of the Hebrew word  for measure means "protect"  "cover wth a garment".
That makes me think back at the 4 angels restraining the winds are actually. holding a clth like the cuppah roof a couple married under.

The outer court is not measured/protected.  The outer court is the court of Gentiles.  Unbelievers. Again like the 4 angels who protect the believers but leave unbelievers unprotected.

:2c:

:2thumbs:

  Me too its wonderful Tony
  all of you  , this has been enlightening !! :icon_flower:   
Seeing the scriptures    unfold


  noted   Jesus said Jerusalem  twice !       that has  always  held  significance  to me , as to be saying  twice told 


under His  protection  [healing in His wings ]   etc  in the old  testament


37"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!


How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.


38"Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!

  I see this as the Lord  telling them  He always wanted to Love them   and protect them , but they never  would  seek  Him and wanted to love Him back  :sigh: