Moses and Elias talking with him

[ed]

Matthew 16
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Then comes the transfiguration.  This same statement is made just before the transfiguration in Matthew, Mark, and Luke.  Why not John?

I believe that the Son of man has come in His kingdom, on the day of Pentecost.  The above verses seem to limit the experience to those that got to see the transfiguration?

I am also interested in the significance of "Moses and Elias talking with him".

I never gave much thought to the transfiguration and its significance.

Was it a snap shot of what was to come on the day of Pentecost?

.

[Tom]

I think the whole thing was a preview of the coming eon, and it's important to remember that Moses and Elijah were just a vision so we don't get to thinking dead folks really are alive.

[sheila]

...so...you think Jesus was just talking to a vision? what about God saying to Peter,'this is my

  son,listen to him"  was that just a vision,too?  Jesus didn't really start lighting upin glory?

    what about 'all live unto God"?

[micah7:9]

...so...you think Jesus was just talking to a vision? what about God saying to Peter,'this is my

  son,listen to him"  was that just a vision,too?  Jesus didn't really start lighting upin glory?

    what about 'all live unto God"?

Just my  :2c: Mat 17:9  And as they are coming down from the mount, Jesus charged them, saying, `Say to no one the vision, till the Son of Man out of the dead may rise.'
Rotherham(i) 9 And, as they were coming down out of the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying—Unto no one, may ye tell the vision, until the Son of Man, from among the dead shall arise.
CLV(i) 9 And, at their descending out of the mountain, Jesus directs them, saying, "Now you may tell no one of the vision till the Son of Mankind may be roused from among the dead."
Diaglott(i) 9 And descending of them, from the mountain, charged them the Jesus, saying: To no one you may tell the vision, till the son of the man from dead (ones) should be raised.

It was pretty much a vision. :dsunny:

[Tom]

...so...you think Jesus was just talking to a vision? what about God saying to Peter,'this is my

  son,listen to him"  was that just a vision,too?  Jesus didn't really start lighting upin glory?

    what about 'all live unto God"?

I think Jesus being transformed was a case of their eyes being opened to see him more like he really is, and seeing Moses and Elijah was a "vision" because that's what scripture calls it.

"Now you may tell no one of the vision till the Son of Mankind may be roused from among the dead." (Matthew 17:9)

I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father. I think the dead are not alive because the body returns to the soil, the soul to the unseen, and the spirit to God. I think Moses and Elijah will eventually be resurrected, but only Christ has immortality now.

"...our Lord, Christ Jesus, which, to its own eras, the happy and only Potentate will be showing: He is King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian!" (1 Timothy 6:14-16) 

[attachment deleted by admin]

[rosered]

 
  I love the transfiguration      did a  deeper study of it   years ago and forgot most of it ...

    but the ones picked to go and  witness this amazing     thing , and they seeing the glimpse of Jesus glory to come  :HeartThrob:


  for me  and me only,   I see the    Moses / law and prophets /Elijah     as   all 3   gathered together as    witnesses  to this GLORY

Jesus  became  brilliantly White and  dazzling   for me this is the Spiritual significance     

and    Jesus  be fulfilling all the law and prophets    Do not think that I have come to revoke The Written Law or The Prophets; I am not come to revoke but to fulfill.
  this is why He   stood alone    ,  and   the Father spoke and said  this is my son hear  him !

   and  Jesus words also to   us  as to them

Love God   first and your neighbor as yourself  be controlled or determined by/rely upon    all the law and prophets


On these two commands depend/ hang all The Written Law and The Prophets.

Was it a snap shot of what was to come on the day of Pentecost?

I would  say Yes we     reap what they sowed      and labored so hard for    , the harvesting of many   as the first-fruits of the increase  of God



  I would even    say , but by faith ,. no   real proof ,   Just the work of the Cross    ,,     that the Head    being the Lord Jesus Christ'' in Authority ''      was   proving   those Law and Prophets 

  are   in Jesus Christ and reigning and ruling now

  we can see this in Daniel and Revelation as   the     song of Moses and the Song of the Lamb  are sung 

   This is all spiritual in     meaning  comparing  spiritual with spiritual  things    , such as visions   , seeing with the eyes of understanding  them ,   and in no wise   literal     as some believe .

[rosered]

...so...you think Jesus was just talking to a vision? what about God saying to Peter,'this is my

  son,listen to him"  was that just a vision,too?  Jesus didn't really start lighting upin glory?

    what about 'all live unto God"?

I think Jesus being transformed was a case of their eyes being opened to see him more like he really is, and seeing Moses and Elijah was a "vision" because that's what scripture calls it.

"Now you may tell no one of the vision till the Son of Mankind may be roused from among the dead." (Matthew 17:9)

I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father. I think the dead are not alive because the body returns to the soil, the soul to the unseen, and the spirit to God. I think Moses and Elijah will eventually be resurrected, but only Christ has immortality now.

"...our Lord, Christ Jesus, which, to its own eras, the happy and only Potentate will be showing: He is King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian!" (1 Timothy 6:14-16)

  Yes it was a very spiritual  sign  at the time !! :thumbsup: 

[ed]

  and    Jesus  be fulfilling all the law and prophets    Do not think that I have come to revoke The Written Law or The Prophets; I am not come to revoke but to fulfill.
  this is why He   stood alone    ,  and   the Father spoke and said  this is my son hear  him !

I would  say Yes we     reap what they sowed      and labored so hard for    , the harvesting of many   as the first-fruits of the increase  of God



  I would even    say , but by faith ,. no   real proof ,   Just the work of the Cross    ,,     that the Head    being the Lord Jesus Christ" in Authority "      was   proving   those Law and Prophets 

  are   in Jesus Christ and reigning and ruling now

:thumbsup:

Thanks rosered,

:dsunny:

[joeteekay]

I think the whole thing was a preview of the coming eon, and it's important to remember that Moses and Elijah were just a vision so we don't get to thinking dead folks really are alive.

I agree with you Tom. There is more here to think about. I note what Peter, James and John said concerning this vision:

Mat 17:3  And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
Mat 17:4  Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

Tabernacle is a booth. i.e. Feast of tabernacles or also referred to as the Feast of Booths. It will be kept by the nations in the next eon:

Zec 14:16  And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

[WhiteWings]

I think the whole thing was a preview of the coming eon

And that eon started shortly after the Mat 28:16 ?

[Molly]

New International Version
As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, "Don't tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead."


It happens at the feast of tabernacles, which will be the fulfillment of the mystery of God.



5Then the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land lifted up his right hand to heaven, 6and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, WHO CREATED HEAVEN AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE EARTH AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE SEA AND THE THINGS IN IT, that there will be delay no longer, 7but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets.

--Rev 10:6



Revelation 21:6
He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life.


It is an indication that God is tabernacling with the disciples as the veil is removed from them [His name shall be called Emmanuel, which means God with us] at this time, as the human body has replaced the tabernacle in the wilderness becoming the temple of God.   At the redemption of the body, we shall  be like him.




Pulpit Commentary

Verse 9. - As they came down from the mountain. The Transfiguration is supposed to have taken place at night, and the following conversation to have passed in the early morning of the next day. Tell the vision (τὸ ὅραμα, what had been seen) to no man. This was a strict and formal command. The chosen three were at present not to mention the occurrence to anyone, not even to their fellow disciples. Possibly these would hardly have believed the marvellous tale, and their unbelief would have hardened their heart; or, if they fully credited it, they might have been jealous of the preference shown to some of their company. At any rate, neither they nor others were prepared to receive the great lesson of the scene - that the old covenant had done its work, that the Law and the prophets were superseded and must make way for the new dispensation. Had the story been divulged to the people generally, they would have stumbled at the cross and Passion, which would seem no fitting sequel to this glory (see on Matthew 16:20). Until the Son of man be risen again (ἀναστῇ) from the dead. When this great event happened and was known to be the fact, there could be no doubt that Christ was God, and the tale of the Transfiguration would no longer be incredible. Thomas's confession, "My Lord and my God," would be echoed in the heart and conscience of all disciples. St. Luke, though he does not mention Christ's injunction, notifies that it was carefully observed, "They kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen." (These last words, οὐδὲν ω΅ν ἑώρακαν, explain what St. Matthew above calls "the vision," τὸ ὅραμα, the objective spectacle.) The compliance with the injunction shows that they understood something of the spiritual nature of the transaction. We may also note that the prohibition itself is presumptive evidence against the supposed mythical character of the vision.

[rosered]

I think the whole thing was a preview of the coming eon, and it's important to remember that Moses and Elijah were just a vision so we don't get to thinking dead folks really are alive.

I agree with you Tom. There is more here to think about. I note what Peter, James and John said concerning this vision:

Mat 17:3  And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
Mat 17:4  Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

Tabernacle is a booth. i.e. Feast of tabernacles or also referred to as the Feast of Booths. It will be kept by the nations in the next eon:

Zec 14:16  And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

  Hi Joe
  They said that .. yet it NEVER HAPPENED     ...
  But God said   Hear my Son , hear what the Spirit is saying  His/ Jesus , testimony IS   THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY and   than Jesus was ALONE ...

Does not anyone understand the powerful sign of this ???


Isaiah 63 God's Judgment on the Nations


...2Why is Your apparel red, And Your garments like the one who treads in the wine press?


3"I have trodden the wine trough alone, And from the peoples there was no man with Me.


I also trod them in My anger And trampled them in My wrath; And their lifeblood is sprinkled on My garments, And I stained all My raiment.

4"For the day of vengeance was in My heart, And My year of redemption has come.

Isaiah   63

If you read all of it   in its entirety  , you  will see the clues         coming from edom is Jesus coming in the flesh     and He was  bringing vengeance  of God on the high and mighty rulers and religious     warning them of the wrath to come    the whole new testament warns   of the opposing  forces   HIS TESTIMONY AND WITNESS         cannot no one see this at all ????

When He was in the transfiguration     or the glorious state we see He was   showing us the power of the HOLY SPIRIT TO COME    !! and he is   right now in this glorious state  and very spiritual     , not flesh anylonger       
  can you see this significance  ?

   the only boothes  are those whom He is   taking a hold of individually     right now  and His spiritual presence is  within them

     
  as He healed the sick afflicted and   lost !!!   

[micah7:9]

...so...you think Jesus was just talking to a vision? what about God saying to Peter,'this is my

  son,listen to him"  was that just a vision,too?  Jesus didn't really start lighting upin glory?

    what about 'all live unto God"?

I think Jesus being transformed was a case of their eyes being opened to see him more like he really is, and seeing Moses and Elijah was a "vision" because that's what scripture calls it.

"Now you may tell no one of the vision till the Son of Mankind may be roused from among the dead." (Matthew 17:9)

I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father. I think the dead are not alive because the body returns to the soil, the soul to the unseen, and the spirit to God. I think Moses and Elijah will eventually be resurrected, but only Christ has immortality now.

"...our Lord, Christ Jesus, which, to its own eras, the happy and only Potentate will be showing: He is King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian!" (1 Timothy 6:14-16)

Perhaps you misspoke, "I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father.
Joh 5:37  `And the Father who sent me Himself hath testified concerning me; ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor His appearance have ye seen;

Just me thinking :2c:

[rosered]

...so...you think Jesus was just talking to a vision? what about God saying to Peter,'this is my

  son,listen to him"  was that just a vision,too?  Jesus didn't really start lighting upin glory?

    what about 'all live unto God"?

I think Jesus being transformed was a case of their eyes being opened to see him more like he really is, and seeing Moses and Elijah was a "vision" because that's what scripture calls it.

"Now you may tell no one of the vision till the Son of Mankind may be roused from among the dead." (Matthew 17:9)

I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father. I think the dead are not alive because the body returns to the soil, the soul to the unseen, and the spirit to God. I think Moses and Elijah will eventually be resurrected, but only Christ has immortality now.

"...our Lord, Christ Jesus, which, to its own eras, the happy and only Potentate will be showing: He is King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian!" (1 Timothy 6:14-16)

Perhaps you misspoke, "I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father.
Joh 5:37  `And the Father who sent me Himself hath testified concerning me; ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor His appearance have ye seen;

Just me thinking :2c:

  There is huge confusion there
  we LOOK at whom the Lord is speaking to          and those whom  were   Jewish leaders      have never heard   the voice of God  because the  Spirit was not in them 
they were the same  of their father the devil and those things they do

even Nicodemus  come in the dark /ignorance not knowing   anything    to Jesus and He was  kind and told him the truth    and set him straight .

I know those whom are His hear His Voice ,are  of the same whom  heard the VOICE IN THE CLOUD    HEAR GOD

this is a division     , and its from God himself     Those  whom are His and those whom are not    do not KNOW ANYTHING     as dead  to the God of the Living

and will be last to   enter

[micah7:9]

Yes, they all heard a voice, Adam heard a voice, but it was not God the Father.
Joh 5:37  And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

[rosered]

Hi Micah show me  where  Adam  never heard Gods voice  in the garden ???

  How   can you say it was not God ?   when clearly it  say Adam did?
  I am willing to listen  to your    understanding .

Yes, they all heard a voice, Adam heard a voice, but it was not God the Father.
Joh 5:37  And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

31'If I testify concerning myself, my testimony is not true; 32another there is who is testifying concerning me, and I have known that the testimony that he doth testify concerning me is true;

33ye have sent unto John, and he hath testified to the truth. 34'But I do not receive testimony from man, but these things I say that ye may be saved; 35he was the burning and shining lamp, and ye did will to be glad, for an hour, in his light.

36'But I have the testimony greater than John's, for the works that the Father gave me, that I might finish them, the works themselves that I do, they testify concerning me, that the Father hath sent me.

37'And the Father who sent me Himself hath testified concerning me; ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor His appearance have ye seen; 38and His word ye have not remaining in you, because whom He sent, him ye do not believe.








Again without the WORD IN THEM   THEY CAN NEVER HEAR THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY  OR SEE HIM
 
Jesus own words only the pure in heart shall see God Matt 5        these are the only ones whom hear God and see God


please consider  whom the Lord was addressing in John 5 Jewish leaders
in John 8 he calls them    You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no  truth in them
  they     DO NOT POSSES THE WORD IN THEIR HEARTS  , because they desired to kill Jesus being   in the flesh .

[micah7:9]

"Hi Micah show me  where  Adam  never heard Gods voice  in the garden ???

  How   can you say it was not God ?   when clearly it  say Adam did?
  I am willing to listen  to your    understanding ."

Yes, they all heard a voice, Adam heard a voice, but it was not God the Father.
Joh 5:37  And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Now the bold print is what I said.....
I did not say as you, "How can you say it was not God ?"
I most certainly believe the "voice" of God is heard, but how, by whom that "voice" or sound or disclosure is offered, I do not know.
I only take the word of Jesus, "...Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

[Tom]

...so...you think Jesus was just talking to a vision? what about God saying to Peter,'this is my

  son,listen to him"  was that just a vision,too?  Jesus didn't really start lighting upin glory?

    what about 'all live unto God"?

I think Jesus being transformed was a case of their eyes being opened to see him more like he really is, and seeing Moses and Elijah was a "vision" because that's what scripture calls it.

"Now you may tell no one of the vision till the Son of Mankind may be roused from among the dead." (Matthew 17:9)

I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father. I think the dead are not alive because the body returns to the soil, the soul to the unseen, and the spirit to God. I think Moses and Elijah will eventually be resurrected, but only Christ has immortality now.

"...our Lord, Christ Jesus, which, to its own eras, the happy and only Potentate will be showing: He is King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian!" (1 Timothy 6:14-16)

Perhaps you misspoke, "I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father.
Joh 5:37  `And the Father who sent me Himself hath testified concerning me; ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor His appearance have ye seen;

Just me thinking :2c:

Brother, I think John 5:37 should be understood in the sense that those who weren't chosen among the Jews couldn't see or hear according to God's will.

"What Israel is seeking for, this she did not encounter, yet the chosen encountered it. Now the rest were calloused, even as it is written, God gives them a spirit of stupor, eyes not to be observing, and ears not to be hearing, till this very day." (Romans 11:7,8)

Here's another occasion when it seems like it's the Father who is speaking about his son, Jesus.

"Now, being baptized, Jesus straightway stepped up from the water, and lo! opened up to Him were the heavens, and He perceived the spirit of God descending as if a dove, and coming on Him. And lo! a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My Son, the Beloved, in Whom I delight."" (Matthew 3:17)

I used to have a hard time understanding how there could be a separate voice from that of Christ's because he is the word of God, but, if it wasn't the Father's voice, whose was it?

[Tom]

I think the whole thing was a preview of the coming eon

And that eon started shortly after the Mat 28:16 ?

I think the next eon starts when Christ returns.

http://www.saviourofall.org/charts/ChartOfJudgments.html

[Tom]

"For the Son of Mankind is about to be coming in the glory of His Father, with His messengers, and then He will be paying each in accord with his practice. Verily I am saying to you that there are some of those standing here who under no circumstances should be tasting death till they should be perceiving the Son of Mankind coming in His kingdom." And after six days Jesus is taking aside Peter and James and John, his brother, and is bringing them up into a high mountain, privately, and was transformed in front of them. And His face shines as the sun, yet His garments became white as the light. And lo! Moses and Elijah were seen by them, conferring with Him. Now, answering, Peter said to Jesus, "Lord, it is ideal for us to be here! If Thou art willing, I shall be making three tabernacles here, for Thee one, and for Moses one, and for Elijah one." While he is still speaking, lo! a luminous cloud overshadows them, and lo! a voice out of the cloud, saying, "This is My Son, the Beloved, in Whom I delight. Hear Him!" And, hearing it, the disciples fall on their faces and were tremendously afraid. And Jesus approached and, touching them, said, "Be roused, and fear not!" Now, lifting up their eyes, they perceived no one except Jesus Himself only. And, at their descending out of the mountain, Jesus directs them, saying, "Now you may tell no one of the vision till the Son of Mankind may be roused from among the dead."" (Matthew 16:27-17:9)

[rosered]

"Hi Micah show me  where  Adam  never heard Gods voice  in the garden ???

  How   can you say it was not God ?   when clearly it  say Adam did?
  I am willing to listen  to your    understanding ."

Yes, they all heard a voice, Adam heard a voice, but it was not God the Father.
Joh 5:37  And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Now the bold print is what I said.....
I did not say as you, "How can you say it was not God ?"
I most certainly believe the "voice" of God is heard, but how, by whom that "voice" or sound or disclosure is offered, I do not know.
I only take the word of Jesus, "...Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

  Well again I will say look at to whom Jesus was addressing this too   ,   they never heard Gods  voice at any time nor seen His shape , this is true !!

  But I  also know  of many  whom have    brother .  and the WORD testifies of it  in many places

Jesus was telling them they had not      and this is the truth     

   the Word of God is not bound

[WhiteWings]

I think the whole thing was a preview of the coming eon

And that eon started shortly after the Mat 28:16 ?

I think the next eon starts when Christ returns.

http://www.saviourofall.org/charts/ChartOfJudgments.html

How old are "some standing here" now?

Matthew 16
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

[micah7:9]

...so...you think Jesus was just talking to a vision? what about God saying to Peter,'this is my

  son,listen to him"  was that just a vision,too?  Jesus didn't really start lighting upin glory?

    what about 'all live unto God"?

I think Jesus being transformed was a case of their eyes being opened to see him more like he really is, and seeing Moses and Elijah was a "vision" because that's what scripture calls it.

"Now you may tell no one of the vision till the Son of Mankind may be roused from among the dead." (Matthew 17:9)

I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father. I think the dead are not alive because the body returns to the soil, the soul to the unseen, and the spirit to God. I think Moses and Elijah will eventually be resurrected, but only Christ has immortality now.

"...our Lord, Christ Jesus, which, to its own eras, the happy and only Potentate will be showing: He is King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian!" (1 Timothy 6:14-16)

Perhaps you misspoke, "I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father.
Joh 5:37  `And the Father who sent me Himself hath testified concerning me; ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor His appearance have ye seen;

Just me thinking :2c:

Brother, I think John 5:37 should be understood in the sense that those who weren't chosen among the Jews couldn't see or hear according to God's will.

"What Israel is seeking for, this she did not encounter, yet the chosen encountered it. Now the rest were calloused, even as it is written, God gives them a spirit of stupor, eyes not to be observing, and ears not to be hearing, till this very day." (Romans 11:7,8)

Here's another occasion when it seems like it's the Father who is speaking about his son, Jesus.

"Now, being baptized, Jesus straightway stepped up from the water, and lo! opened up to Him were the heavens, and He perceived the spirit of God descending as if a dove, and coming on Him. And lo! a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My Son, the Beloved, in Whom I delight."" (Matthew 3:17)

I used to have a hard time understanding how there could be a separate voice from that of Christ's because he is the word of God, but, if it wasn't the Father's voice, whose was it?

I was going to use the same verse but from Luke, I felt it would only stir the thought more. As to who or what "voice/sound/disclosure," it was, I don't know. But according to Jesus, it was not the Father's. Now how the Father did what He did so that the "voice/sound/disclosure," was heard, I do not know.

[micah7:9]

"Hi Micah show me  where  Adam  never heard Gods voice  in the garden ???

  How   can you say it was not God ?   when clearly it  say Adam did?
  I am willing to listen  to your    understanding ."

Yes, they all heard a voice, Adam heard a voice, but it was not God the Father.
Joh 5:37  And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Now the bold print is what I said.....
I did not say as you, "How can you say it was not God ?"
I most certainly believe the "voice" of God is heard, but how, by whom that "voice" or sound or disclosure is offered, I do not know.
I only take the word of Jesus, "...Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

  Well again I will say look at to whom Jesus was addressing this too   ,   they never heard Gods  voice at any time nor seen His shape , this is true !!

  But I  also know  of many  whom have    brother .  and the WORD testifies of it  in many places

Jesus was telling them they had not      and this is the truth     

   the Word of God is not bound

You said this, "Well again I will say look at to whom Jesus was addressing this too   ,   they never heard Gods  voice at any time nor seen His shape , this is true !!"

Jesus said, Joh 5:37  `And the Father who sent me Himself hath testified concerning me; ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor His appearance have ye seen;

Yes we hear from God, I believe that. :dsunny:

[Tom]

...so...you think Jesus was just talking to a vision? what about God saying to Peter,'this is my

  son,listen to him"  was that just a vision,too?  Jesus didn't really start lighting upin glory?

    what about 'all live unto God"?

I think Jesus being transformed was a case of their eyes being opened to see him more like he really is, and seeing Moses and Elijah was a "vision" because that's what scripture calls it.

"Now you may tell no one of the vision till the Son of Mankind may be roused from among the dead." (Matthew 17:9)

I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father. I think the dead are not alive because the body returns to the soil, the soul to the unseen, and the spirit to God. I think Moses and Elijah will eventually be resurrected, but only Christ has immortality now.

"...our Lord, Christ Jesus, which, to its own eras, the happy and only Potentate will be showing: He is King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian!" (1 Timothy 6:14-16)

Perhaps you misspoke, "I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father.
Joh 5:37  `And the Father who sent me Himself hath testified concerning me; ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor His appearance have ye seen;

Just me thinking :2c:

Brother, I think John 5:37 should be understood in the sense that those who weren't chosen among the Jews couldn't see or hear according to God's will.

"What Israel is seeking for, this she did not encounter, yet the chosen encountered it. Now the rest were calloused, even as it is written, God gives them a spirit of stupor, eyes not to be observing, and ears not to be hearing, till this very day." (Romans 11:7,8)

Here's another occasion when it seems like it's the Father who is speaking about his son, Jesus.

"Now, being baptized, Jesus straightway stepped up from the water, and lo! opened up to Him were the heavens, and He perceived the spirit of God descending as if a dove, and coming on Him. And lo! a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My Son, the Beloved, in Whom I delight."" (Matthew 3:17)

I used to have a hard time understanding how there could be a separate voice from that of Christ's because he is the word of God, but, if it wasn't the Father's voice, whose was it?

I was going to use the same verse but from Luke, I felt it would only stir the thought more. As to who or what "voice/sound/disclosure," it was, I don't know. But according to Jesus, it was not the Father's. Now how the Father did what He did so that the "voice/sound/disclosure," was heard, I do not know.

Well, I guess there's a possibility that there was a ventriloquist in the crowd, but I kind of doubt it.