Matthew 16
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Then comes the transfiguration. This same statement is made just before the transfiguration in Matthew, Mark, and Luke. Why not John?
I believe that the Son of man has come in His kingdom, on the day of Pentecost. The above verses seem to limit the experience to those that got to see the transfiguration?
I am also interested in the significance of "Moses and Elias talking with him".
I never gave much thought to the transfiguration and its significance.
Was it a snap shot of what was to come on the day of Pentecost?
.
I think the whole thing was a preview of the coming eon, and it's important to remember that Moses and Elijah were just a vision so we don't get to thinking dead folks really are alive.
...so...you think Jesus was just talking to a vision? what about God saying to Peter,'this is my
son,listen to him" was that just a vision,too? Jesus didn't really start lighting upin glory?
what about 'all live unto God"?
Quote from: sheila on October 13, 2014, 12:37:45 AM
...so...you think Jesus was just talking to a vision? what about God saying to Peter,'this is my
son,listen to him" was that just a vision,too? Jesus didn't really start lighting upin glory?
what about 'all live unto God"?
Just my :2c: Mat 17:9 And as they are coming down from the mount, Jesus charged them, saying, `
Say to no one the vision, till the Son of Man out of the dead may rise.'
Rotherham(i) 9 And, as they were coming down out of the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying—Unto
no one, may ye tell the vision, until the Son of Man, from among the dead shall arise.
CLV(i) 9 And, at their descending out of the mountain, Jesus directs them, saying, "Now you may
tell no one of the vision till the Son of Mankind may be roused from among the dead."
Diaglott(i) 9 And descending of them, from the mountain, charged them the Jesus, saying:
To no one you may tell the vision, till the son of the man from dead (ones) should be raised.
It was pretty much a vision. :dsunny:
Quote from: sheila on October 13, 2014, 12:37:45 AM
...so...you think Jesus was just talking to a vision? what about God saying to Peter,'this is my
son,listen to him" was that just a vision,too? Jesus didn't really start lighting upin glory?
what about 'all live unto God"?
I think Jesus being transformed was a case of their eyes being opened to see him more like he really is, and seeing Moses and Elijah was a "vision" because that's what scripture calls it.
"Now you may tell no one of the vision till the Son of Mankind may be roused from among the dead." (Matthew 17:9)
I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father. I think the dead are not alive because the body returns to the soil, the soul to the unseen, and the spirit to God. I think Moses and Elijah will eventually be resurrected, but only Christ has immortality now.
"...our Lord, Christ Jesus, which, to its own eras, the happy and only Potentate will be showing: He is King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian!" (1 Timothy 6:14-16)
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I love the transfiguration did a deeper study of it years ago and forgot most of it ...
but the ones picked to go and witness this amazing thing , and they seeing the glimpse of Jesus glory to come :HeartThrob:
for me and me only, I see the Moses / law and prophets /Elijah as all 3 gathered together as witnesses to this GLORY
Jesus became brilliantly White and dazzling for me this is the Spiritual significance
and Jesus be fulfilling all the law and prophets Do not think that I have come to revoke The Written Law or The Prophets; I am not come to revoke but to fulfill.
this is why He stood alone , and the Father spoke and said this is my son hear him !
and Jesus words also to us as to them
Love God first and your neighbor as yourself be controlled or determined by/rely upon all the law and prophets On these two commands
depend/ hang all The Written Law and The Prophets.
QuoteWas it a snap shot of what was to come on the day of Pentecost?
I would say Yes we reap what they sowed and labored so hard for , the harvesting of many as the first-fruits of the increase of God
I would even say , but by faith ,. no real proof , Just the work of the Cross ,, that the Head being the Lord Jesus Christ'' in Authority '' was proving those Law and Prophets
are in Jesus Christ and reigning and ruling now
we can see this in Daniel and Revelation as the song of Moses and the Song of the Lamb are sung
This is all spiritual in meaning comparing spiritual with spiritual things , such as visions , seeing with the eyes of understanding them , and in no wise literal as some believe .
Quote from: Tom on October 13, 2014, 01:08:32 AM
Quote from: sheila on October 13, 2014, 12:37:45 AM
...so...you think Jesus was just talking to a vision? what about God saying to Peter,'this is my
son,listen to him" was that just a vision,too? Jesus didn't really start lighting upin glory?
what about 'all live unto God"?
I think Jesus being transformed was a case of their eyes being opened to see him more like he really is, and seeing Moses and Elijah was a "vision" because that's what scripture calls it.
"Now you may tell no one of the vision till the Son of Mankind may be roused from among the dead." (Matthew 17:9)
I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father. I think the dead are not alive because the body returns to the soil, the soul to the unseen, and the spirit to God. I think Moses and Elijah will eventually be resurrected, but only Christ has immortality now.
"...our Lord, Christ Jesus, which, to its own eras, the happy and only Potentate will be showing: He is King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian!" (1 Timothy 6:14-16)
Yes it was a very spiritual sign at the time !! :thumbsup:
Quote from: rosered on October 13, 2014, 01:34:56 AM
and Jesus be fulfilling all the law and prophets Do not think that I have come to revoke The Written Law or The Prophets; I am not come to revoke but to fulfill.
this is why He stood alone , and the Father spoke and said this is my son hear him !
I would say Yes we reap what they sowed and labored so hard for , the harvesting of many as the first-fruits of the increase of God
I would even say , but by faith ,. no real proof , Just the work of the Cross ,, that the Head being the Lord Jesus Christ" in Authority " was proving those Law and Prophets
are in Jesus Christ and reigning and ruling now
:thumbsup:
Thanks rosered,
:dsunny:
Quote from: Tom on October 13, 2014, 12:16:28 AM
I think the whole thing was a preview of the coming eon, and it's important to remember that Moses and Elijah were just a vision so we don't get to thinking dead folks really are alive.
I agree with you Tom. There is more here to think about. I note what Peter, James and John said concerning this vision:
Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
Mat 17:4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
Tabernacle is a booth. i.e. Feast of tabernacles or also referred to as the Feast of Booths. It will be kept by the nations in the next eon:
Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Quote from: Tom on October 13, 2014, 12:16:28 AM
I think the whole thing was a preview of the coming eon
And that eon started shortly after the Mat 28:16 ?
New International Version
As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, "Don't tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead."
It happens at the feast of tabernacles, which will be the fulfillment of the mystery of God.
5Then the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land lifted up his right hand to heaven, 6and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, WHO CREATED HEAVEN AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE EARTH AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE SEA AND THE THINGS IN IT, that there will be delay no longer, 7but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets.
--Rev 10:6
Revelation 21:6
He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life.
It is an indication that God is tabernacling with the disciples as the veil is removed from them [His name shall be called Emmanuel, which means God with us] at this time, as the human body has replaced the tabernacle in the wilderness becoming the temple of God. At the redemption of the body, we shall be like him.
Pulpit Commentary
Verse 9. - As they came down from the mountain. The Transfiguration is supposed to have taken place at night, and the following conversation to have passed in the early morning of the next day. Tell the vision (τὸ ὅραμα, what had been seen) to no man. This was a strict and formal command. The chosen three were at present not to mention the occurrence to anyone, not even to their fellow disciples. Possibly these would hardly have believed the marvellous tale, and their unbelief would have hardened their heart; or, if they fully credited it, they might have been jealous of the preference shown to some of their company. At any rate, neither they nor others were prepared to receive the great lesson of the scene - that the old covenant had done its work, that the Law and the prophets were superseded and must make way for the new dispensation. Had the story been divulged to the people generally, they would have stumbled at the cross and Passion, which would seem no fitting sequel to this glory (see on Matthew 16:20). Until the Son of man be risen again (ἀναστῇ) from the dead. When this great event happened and was known to be the fact, there could be no doubt that Christ was God, and the tale of the Transfiguration would no longer be incredible. Thomas's confession, "My Lord and my God," would be echoed in the heart and conscience of all disciples. St. Luke, though he does not mention Christ's injunction, notifies that it was carefully observed, "They kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen." (These last words, οὐδὲν ω΅ν ἑώρακαν, explain what St. Matthew above calls "the vision," τὸ ὅραμα, the objective spectacle.) The compliance with the injunction shows that they understood something of the spiritual nature of the transaction. We may also note that the prohibition itself is presumptive evidence against the supposed mythical character of the vision.
Quote from: joeteekay on October 13, 2014, 05:12:09 AM
Quote from: Tom on October 13, 2014, 12:16:28 AM
I think the whole thing was a preview of the coming eon, and it's important to remember that Moses and Elijah were just a vision so we don't get to thinking dead folks really are alive.
I agree with you Tom. There is more here to think about. I note what Peter, James and John said concerning this vision:
Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
Mat 17:4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
Tabernacle is a booth. i.e. Feast of tabernacles or also referred to as the Feast of Booths. It will be kept by the nations in the next eon:
Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Hi Joe
They said that .. yet it NEVER HAPPENED ...
But God said Hear my Son , hear what the Spirit is saying His/ Jesus , testimony
IS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY and than Jesus was ALONE ...
Does not anyone understand the powerful sign of this ???
Isaiah 63 God's Judgment on the Nations
...2Why is Your apparel red, And Your garments like the one who treads in the wine press?
3
"I have trodden the wine trough alone, And from the peoples there was no man with Me. I also trod them in My anger And trampled them in My wrath; And their lifeblood is sprinkled on My garments, And I stained all My raiment.
4"For the day of vengeance was in My heart, And My year of redemption has come.
Isaiah 63
If you read all of it in its entirety , you will see the clues coming from edom is Jesus coming in the flesh and He was bringing vengeance of God on the high and mighty rulers and religious warning them of the wrath to come the whole new testament warns of the opposing forces HIS TESTIMONY AND WITNESS cannot no one see this at all ????
When He was in the transfiguration or the glorious state we see He was showing us the power of the HOLY SPIRIT TO COME !! and he is right now in this glorious state and very spiritual , not flesh anylonger
can you see this significance ?
the only boothes are those whom He is taking a hold of individually right now and His spiritual presence is within them
as He healed the sick afflicted and lost !!!
Quote from: Tom on October 13, 2014, 01:08:32 AM
Quote from: sheila on October 13, 2014, 12:37:45 AM
...so...you think Jesus was just talking to a vision? what about God saying to Peter,'this is my
son,listen to him" was that just a vision,too? Jesus didn't really start lighting upin glory?
what about 'all live unto God"?
I think Jesus being transformed was a case of their eyes being opened to see him more like he really is, and seeing Moses and Elijah was a "vision" because that's what scripture calls it.
"Now you may tell no one of the vision till the Son of Mankind may be roused from among the dead." (Matthew 17:9)
I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father. I think the dead are not alive because the body returns to the soil, the soul to the unseen, and the spirit to God. I think Moses and Elijah will eventually be resurrected, but only Christ has immortality now.
"...our Lord, Christ Jesus, which, to its own eras, the happy and only Potentate will be showing: He is King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian!" (1 Timothy 6:14-16)
Perhaps you misspoke, "I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision
but the audible voice of the Father.Joh 5:37 `
And the Father who sent me Himself hath testified concerning me; ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor His appearance have ye seen; Just me thinking :2c:
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 13, 2014, 04:32:31 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 13, 2014, 01:08:32 AM
Quote from: sheila on October 13, 2014, 12:37:45 AM
...so...you think Jesus was just talking to a vision? what about God saying to Peter,'this is my
son,listen to him" was that just a vision,too? Jesus didn't really start lighting upin glory?
what about 'all live unto God"?
I think Jesus being transformed was a case of their eyes being opened to see him more like he really is, and seeing Moses and Elijah was a "vision" because that's what scripture calls it.
"Now you may tell no one of the vision till the Son of Mankind may be roused from among the dead." (Matthew 17:9)
I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father. I think the dead are not alive because the body returns to the soil, the soul to the unseen, and the spirit to God. I think Moses and Elijah will eventually be resurrected, but only Christ has immortality now.
"...our Lord, Christ Jesus, which, to its own eras, the happy and only Potentate will be showing: He is King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian!" (1 Timothy 6:14-16)
Perhaps you misspoke, "I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father.
Joh 5:37 `And the Father who sent me Himself hath testified concerning me; ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor His appearance have ye seen;
Just me thinking :2c:
There is huge confusion there
we LOOK at whom the Lord is speaking to and those whom were
Jewish leaders have never heard the voice of God because the Spirit was not in them
they were the same of their father the devil and those things they do
even Nicodemus come in the dark /ignorance not knowing anything to Jesus and He was kind and told him the truth and set him straight .
I know those whom are His hear His Voice ,are of the same whom heard the VOICE IN THE CLOUD HEAR GOD
this is a division , and its from God himself Those whom are His and those whom are not do not KNOW ANYTHING as dead to the God of the Living
and will be last to enter
Yes, they all heard a voice, Adam heard a voice, but it was not God the Father.
Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 13, 2014, 05:01:06 PM
Hi Micah show me where Adam never heard Gods voice in the garden ???
How can you say it was not God ? when clearly it say Adam did?
I am willing to listen to your understanding .
Yes, they all heard a voice, Adam heard a voice, but it was not God the Father.
Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
31'If I testify concerning myself, my testimony is not true; 32another there is who is testifying concerning me, and I have known that the testimony that he doth testify concerning me is true;
33ye have sent unto John, and he hath testified to the truth. 34'But I do not receive testimony from man, but these things I say that ye may be saved; 35he was the burning and shining lamp, and ye did will to be glad, for an hour, in his light.
36'But I have the testimony greater than John's, for the works that the Father gave me, that I might finish them, the works themselves that I do, they testify concerning me, that the Father hath sent me.
37'And the Father who sent me Himself hath testified concerning me; ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor His appearance have ye seen; 38
and His word ye have not remaining in you, because whom He sent, him ye do not believe. Again without the
WORD IN THEM THEY CAN NEVER HEAR THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY OR SEE HIM
Jesus own words only the pure in heart shall see God Matt 5 these are the only ones whom hear God and see God
please consider whom the Lord was addressing in John 5 Jewish leaders
in John 8 he calls them You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not
holding to the truth, for there is no truth in them
they DO NOT POSSES THE WORD IN THEIR HEARTS , because they desired to kill Jesus being in the flesh .
"Hi Micah show me where Adam never heard Gods voice in the garden ???
How can you say it was not God ? when clearly it say Adam did?
I am willing to listen to your understanding ."
Yes, they all heard a voice, Adam heard a voice, but it was not God the Father.
Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Now the bold print is what I said.....
I did not say as you, "How can you say it was not God ?"
I most certainly believe the "voice" of God is heard, but how, by whom that "voice" or sound or disclosure is offered, I do not know.
I only take the word of Jesus, "...Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 13, 2014, 04:32:31 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 13, 2014, 01:08:32 AM
Quote from: sheila on October 13, 2014, 12:37:45 AM
...so...you think Jesus was just talking to a vision? what about God saying to Peter,'this is my
son,listen to him" was that just a vision,too? Jesus didn't really start lighting upin glory?
what about 'all live unto God"?
I think Jesus being transformed was a case of their eyes being opened to see him more like he really is, and seeing Moses and Elijah was a "vision" because that's what scripture calls it.
"Now you may tell no one of the vision till the Son of Mankind may be roused from among the dead." (Matthew 17:9)
I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father. I think the dead are not alive because the body returns to the soil, the soul to the unseen, and the spirit to God. I think Moses and Elijah will eventually be resurrected, but only Christ has immortality now.
"...our Lord, Christ Jesus, which, to its own eras, the happy and only Potentate will be showing: He is King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian!" (1 Timothy 6:14-16)
Perhaps you misspoke, "I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father.
Joh 5:37 `And the Father who sent me Himself hath testified concerning me; ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor His appearance have ye seen;
Just me thinking :2c:
Brother, I think John 5:37 should be understood in the sense that those who weren't chosen among the Jews couldn't see or hear according to God's will.
"What Israel is seeking for, this she did not encounter, yet the chosen encountered it. Now the rest were calloused, even as it is written, God gives them a spirit of stupor, eyes not to be observing, and ears not to be hearing, till this very day." (Romans 11:7,8)
Here's another occasion when it seems like it's the Father who is speaking about his son, Jesus.
"Now, being baptized, Jesus straightway stepped up from the water, and lo! opened up to Him were the heavens, and He perceived the spirit of God descending as if a dove, and coming on Him. And lo! a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My Son, the Beloved, in Whom I delight."" (Matthew 3:17)
I used to have a hard time understanding how there could be a separate voice from that of Christ's because he is the word of God, but, if it wasn't the Father's voice, whose was it?
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 13, 2014, 02:17:03 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 13, 2014, 12:16:28 AM
I think the whole thing was a preview of the coming eon
And that eon started shortly after the Mat 28:16 ?
I think the next eon starts when Christ returns.
http://www.saviourofall.org/charts/ChartOfJudgments.html
"For the Son of Mankind is about to be coming in the glory of His Father, with His messengers, and then He will be paying each in accord with his practice. Verily I am saying to you that there are some of those standing here who under no circumstances should be tasting death till they should be perceiving the Son of Mankind coming in His kingdom." And after six days Jesus is taking aside Peter and James and John, his brother, and is bringing them up into a high mountain, privately, and was transformed in front of them. And His face shines as the sun, yet His garments became white as the light. And lo! Moses and Elijah were seen by them, conferring with Him. Now, answering, Peter said to Jesus, "Lord, it is ideal for us to be here! If Thou art willing, I shall be making three tabernacles here, for Thee one, and for Moses one, and for Elijah one." While he is still speaking, lo! a luminous cloud overshadows them, and lo! a voice out of the cloud, saying, "This is My Son, the Beloved, in Whom I delight. Hear Him!" And, hearing it, the disciples fall on their faces and were tremendously afraid. And Jesus approached and, touching them, said, "Be roused, and fear not!" Now, lifting up their eyes, they perceived no one except Jesus Himself only. And, at their descending out of the mountain, Jesus directs them, saying, "Now you may tell no one of the vision till the Son of Mankind may be roused from among the dead."" (Matthew 16:27-17:9)
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 13, 2014, 05:49:37 PM
"Hi Micah show me where Adam never heard Gods voice in the garden ???
How can you say it was not God ? when clearly it say Adam did?
I am willing to listen to your understanding ."
Yes, they all heard a voice, Adam heard a voice, but it was not God the Father.
Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Now the bold print is what I said.....
I did not say as you, "How can you say it was not God ?"
I most certainly believe the "voice" of God is heard, but how, by whom that "voice" or sound or disclosure is offered, I do not know.
I only take the word of Jesus, "...Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Well again I will say look at to whom Jesus was addressing this too , they never heard Gods voice at any time nor seen His shape , this is true !!
But I also know of many whom have brother . and the WORD testifies of it in many places
Jesus was telling them they had not and this is the truth
the Word of God is not bound
Quote from: Tom on October 13, 2014, 05:55:58 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 13, 2014, 02:17:03 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 13, 2014, 12:16:28 AM
I think the whole thing was a preview of the coming eon
And that eon started shortly after the Mat 28:16 ?
I think the next eon starts when Christ returns.
http://www.saviourofall.org/charts/ChartOfJudgments.html
How old are "some standing here" now?
Matthew 16
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Quote from: Tom on October 13, 2014, 05:53:08 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 13, 2014, 04:32:31 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 13, 2014, 01:08:32 AM
Quote from: sheila on October 13, 2014, 12:37:45 AM
...so...you think Jesus was just talking to a vision? what about God saying to Peter,'this is my
son,listen to him" was that just a vision,too? Jesus didn't really start lighting upin glory?
what about 'all live unto God"?
I think Jesus being transformed was a case of their eyes being opened to see him more like he really is, and seeing Moses and Elijah was a "vision" because that's what scripture calls it.
"Now you may tell no one of the vision till the Son of Mankind may be roused from among the dead." (Matthew 17:9)
I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father. I think the dead are not alive because the body returns to the soil, the soul to the unseen, and the spirit to God. I think Moses and Elijah will eventually be resurrected, but only Christ has immortality now.
"...our Lord, Christ Jesus, which, to its own eras, the happy and only Potentate will be showing: He is King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian!" (1 Timothy 6:14-16)
Perhaps you misspoke, "I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father.
Joh 5:37 `And the Father who sent me Himself hath testified concerning me; ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor His appearance have ye seen;
Just me thinking :2c:
Brother, I think John 5:37 should be understood in the sense that those who weren't chosen among the Jews couldn't see or hear according to God's will.
"What Israel is seeking for, this she did not encounter, yet the chosen encountered it. Now the rest were calloused, even as it is written, God gives them a spirit of stupor, eyes not to be observing, and ears not to be hearing, till this very day." (Romans 11:7,8)
Here's another occasion when it seems like it's the Father who is speaking about his son, Jesus.
"Now, being baptized, Jesus straightway stepped up from the water, and lo! opened up to Him were the heavens, and He perceived the spirit of God descending as if a dove, and coming on Him. And lo! a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My Son, the Beloved, in Whom I delight."" (Matthew 3:17)
I used to have a hard time understanding how there could be a separate voice from that of Christ's because he is the word of God, but, if it wasn't the Father's voice, whose was it?
I was going to use the same verse but from Luke, I felt it would only stir the thought more. As to who or what "voice/sound/disclosure," it was, I don't know. But according to Jesus, it was not the Father's. Now how the Father did what He did so that the "voice/sound/disclosure," was heard, I do not know.
Quote from: rosered on October 13, 2014, 06:04:52 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 13, 2014, 05:49:37 PM
"Hi Micah show me where Adam never heard Gods voice in the garden ???
How can you say it was not God ? when clearly it say Adam did?
I am willing to listen to your understanding ."
Yes, they all heard a voice, Adam heard a voice, but it was not God the Father.
Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Now the bold print is what I said.....
I did not say as you, "How can you say it was not God ?"
I most certainly believe the "voice" of God is heard, but how, by whom that "voice" or sound or disclosure is offered, I do not know.
I only take the word of Jesus, "...Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
Well again I will say look at to whom Jesus was addressing this too , they never heard Gods voice at any time nor seen His shape , this is true !!
But I also know of many whom have brother . and the WORD testifies of it in many places
Jesus was telling them they had not and this is the truth
the Word of God is not bound
You said this, "Well again I will say look at to whom Jesus was addressing this too , they
never heard Gods voice at any time nor seen His shape , this is true !!"
Jesus said, Joh 5:37 `
And the Father who sent me Himself hath testified concerning me;
ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor His appearance have ye seen; Yes we hear from God, I believe that. :dsunny:
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 13, 2014, 06:12:39 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 13, 2014, 05:53:08 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 13, 2014, 04:32:31 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 13, 2014, 01:08:32 AM
Quote from: sheila on October 13, 2014, 12:37:45 AM
...so...you think Jesus was just talking to a vision? what about God saying to Peter,'this is my
son,listen to him" was that just a vision,too? Jesus didn't really start lighting upin glory?
what about 'all live unto God"?
I think Jesus being transformed was a case of their eyes being opened to see him more like he really is, and seeing Moses and Elijah was a "vision" because that's what scripture calls it.
"Now you may tell no one of the vision till the Son of Mankind may be roused from among the dead." (Matthew 17:9)
I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father. I think the dead are not alive because the body returns to the soil, the soul to the unseen, and the spirit to God. I think Moses and Elijah will eventually be resurrected, but only Christ has immortality now.
"...our Lord, Christ Jesus, which, to its own eras, the happy and only Potentate will be showing: He is King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian!" (1 Timothy 6:14-16)
Perhaps you misspoke, "I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father.
Joh 5:37 `And the Father who sent me Himself hath testified concerning me; ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor His appearance have ye seen;
Just me thinking :2c:
Brother, I think John 5:37 should be understood in the sense that those who weren't chosen among the Jews couldn't see or hear according to God's will.
"What Israel is seeking for, this she did not encounter, yet the chosen encountered it. Now the rest were calloused, even as it is written, God gives them a spirit of stupor, eyes not to be observing, and ears not to be hearing, till this very day." (Romans 11:7,8)
Here's another occasion when it seems like it's the Father who is speaking about his son, Jesus.
"Now, being baptized, Jesus straightway stepped up from the water, and lo! opened up to Him were the heavens, and He perceived the spirit of God descending as if a dove, and coming on Him. And lo! a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My Son, the Beloved, in Whom I delight."" (Matthew 3:17)
I used to have a hard time understanding how there could be a separate voice from that of Christ's because he is the word of God, but, if it wasn't the Father's voice, whose was it?
I was going to use the same verse but from Luke, I felt it would only stir the thought more. As to who or what "voice/sound/disclosure," it was, I don't know. But according to Jesus, it was not the Father's. Now how the Father did what He did so that the "voice/sound/disclosure," was heard, I do not know.
Well, I guess there's a possibility that there was a ventriloquist in the crowd, but I kind of doubt it.
Quote from: Tom on October 13, 2014, 06:17:35 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 13, 2014, 06:12:39 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 13, 2014, 05:53:08 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 13, 2014, 04:32:31 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 13, 2014, 01:08:32 AM
Quote from: sheila on October 13, 2014, 12:37:45 AM
...so...you think Jesus was just talking to a vision? what about God saying to Peter,'this is my
son,listen to him" was that just a vision,too? Jesus didn't really start lighting upin glory?
what about 'all live unto God"?
I think Jesus being transformed was a case of their eyes being opened to see him more like he really is, and seeing Moses and Elijah was a "vision" because that's what scripture calls it.
"Now you may tell no one of the vision till the Son of Mankind may be roused from among the dead." (Matthew 17:9)
I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father. I think the dead are not alive because the body returns to the soil, the soul to the unseen, and the spirit to God. I think Moses and Elijah will eventually be resurrected, but only Christ has immortality now.
"...our Lord, Christ Jesus, which, to its own eras, the happy and only Potentate will be showing: He is King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian!" (1 Timothy 6:14-16)
Perhaps you misspoke, "I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father.
Joh 5:37 `And the Father who sent me Himself hath testified concerning me; ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor His appearance have ye seen;
Just me thinking :2c:
Brother, I think John 5:37 should be understood in the sense that those who weren't chosen among the Jews couldn't see or hear according to God's will.
"What Israel is seeking for, this she did not encounter, yet the chosen encountered it. Now the rest were calloused, even as it is written, God gives them a spirit of stupor, eyes not to be observing, and ears not to be hearing, till this very day." (Romans 11:7,8)
Here's another occasion when it seems like it's the Father who is speaking about his son, Jesus.
"Now, being baptized, Jesus straightway stepped up from the water, and lo! opened up to Him were the heavens, and He perceived the spirit of God descending as if a dove, and coming on Him. And lo! a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My Son, the Beloved, in Whom I delight."" (Matthew 3:17)
I used to have a hard time understanding how there could be a separate voice from that of Christ's because he is the word of God, but, if it wasn't the Father's voice, whose was it?
I was going to use the same verse but from Luke, I felt it would only stir the thought more. As to who or what "voice/sound/disclosure," it was, I don't know. But according to Jesus, it was not the Father's. Now how the Father did what He did so that the "voice/sound/disclosure," was heard, I do not know.
Well, I guess there's a possibility that there was a ventriloquist in the crowd, but I kind of doubt it.
:laugh:
Quote from: Tom on October 13, 2014, 06:17:35 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 13, 2014, 06:12:39 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 13, 2014, 05:53:08 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 13, 2014, 04:32:31 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 13, 2014, 01:08:32 AM
Quote from: sheila on October 13, 2014, 12:37:45 AM
...so...you think Jesus was just talking to a vision? what about God saying to Peter,'this is my
son,listen to him" was that just a vision,too? Jesus didn't really start lighting upin glory?
what about 'all live unto God"?
I think Jesus being transformed was a case of their eyes being opened to see him more like he really is, and seeing Moses and Elijah was a "vision" because that's what scripture calls it.
"Now you may tell no one of the vision till the Son of Mankind may be roused from among the dead." (Matthew 17:9)
I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father. I think the dead are not alive because the body returns to the soil, the soul to the unseen, and the spirit to God. I think Moses and Elijah will eventually be resurrected, but only Christ has immortality now.
"...our Lord, Christ Jesus, which, to its own eras, the happy and only Potentate will be showing: He is King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian!" (1 Timothy 6:14-16)
Perhaps you misspoke, "I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father.
Joh 5:37 `And the Father who sent me Himself hath testified concerning me; ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor His appearance have ye seen;
Just me thinking :2c:
Brother, I think John 5:37 should be understood in the sense that those who weren't chosen among the Jews couldn't see or hear according to God's will.
"What Israel is seeking for, this she did not encounter, yet the chosen encountered it. Now the rest were calloused, even as it is written, God gives them a spirit of stupor, eyes not to be observing, and ears not to be hearing, till this very day." (Romans 11:7,8)
Here's another occasion when it seems like it's the Father who is speaking about his son, Jesus.
"Now, being baptized, Jesus straightway stepped up from the water, and lo! opened up to Him were the heavens, and He perceived the spirit of God descending as if a dove, and coming on Him. And lo! a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My Son, the Beloved, in Whom I delight."" (Matthew 3:17)
I used to have a hard time understanding how there could be a separate voice from that of Christ's because he is the word of God, but, if it wasn't the Father's voice, whose was it?
I was going to use the same verse but from Luke, I felt it would only stir the thought more. As to who or what "voice/sound/disclosure," it was, I don't know. But according to Jesus, it was not the Father's. Now how the Father did what He did so that the "voice/sound/disclosure," was heard, I do not know.
Well, I guess there's a possibility that there was a ventriloquist in the crowd, but I kind of doubt it.
You are being humorous now right? :dsunny:
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 13, 2014, 06:28:18 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 13, 2014, 06:17:35 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 13, 2014, 06:12:39 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 13, 2014, 05:53:08 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 13, 2014, 04:32:31 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 13, 2014, 01:08:32 AM
Quote from: sheila on October 13, 2014, 12:37:45 AM
...so...you think Jesus was just talking to a vision? what about God saying to Peter,'this is my
son,listen to him" was that just a vision,too? Jesus didn't really start lighting upin glory?
what about 'all live unto God"?
I think Jesus being transformed was a case of their eyes being opened to see him more like he really is, and seeing Moses and Elijah was a "vision" because that's what scripture calls it.
"Now you may tell no one of the vision till the Son of Mankind may be roused from among the dead." (Matthew 17:9)
I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father. I think the dead are not alive because the body returns to the soil, the soul to the unseen, and the spirit to God. I think Moses and Elijah will eventually be resurrected, but only Christ has immortality now.
"...our Lord, Christ Jesus, which, to its own eras, the happy and only Potentate will be showing: He is King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian!" (1 Timothy 6:14-16)
Perhaps you misspoke, "I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father.
Joh 5:37 `And the Father who sent me Himself hath testified concerning me; ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor His appearance have ye seen;
Just me thinking :2c:
Brother, I think John 5:37 should be understood in the sense that those who weren't chosen among the Jews couldn't see or hear according to God's will.
"What Israel is seeking for, this she did not encounter, yet the chosen encountered it. Now the rest were calloused, even as it is written, God gives them a spirit of stupor, eyes not to be observing, and ears not to be hearing, till this very day." (Romans 11:7,8)
Here's another occasion when it seems like it's the Father who is speaking about his son, Jesus.
"Now, being baptized, Jesus straightway stepped up from the water, and lo! opened up to Him were the heavens, and He perceived the spirit of God descending as if a dove, and coming on Him. And lo! a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My Son, the Beloved, in Whom I delight."" (Matthew 3:17)
I used to have a hard time understanding how there could be a separate voice from that of Christ's because he is the word of God, but, if it wasn't the Father's voice, whose was it?
I was going to use the same verse but from Luke, I felt it would only stir the thought more. As to who or what "voice/sound/disclosure," it was, I don't know. But according to Jesus, it was not the Father's. Now how the Father did what He did so that the "voice/sound/disclosure," was heard, I do not know.
Well, I guess there's a possibility that there was a ventriloquist in the crowd, but I kind of doubt it.
You are being humorous now right? :dsunny:
Humor is what keeps me going, bro, when all else fails.
Quote from: Tom on October 13, 2014, 06:29:56 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 13, 2014, 06:28:18 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 13, 2014, 06:17:35 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 13, 2014, 06:12:39 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 13, 2014, 05:53:08 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 13, 2014, 04:32:31 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 13, 2014, 01:08:32 AM
Quote from: sheila on October 13, 2014, 12:37:45 AM
...so...you think Jesus was just talking to a vision? what about God saying to Peter,'this is my
son,listen to him" was that just a vision,too? Jesus didn't really start lighting upin glory?
what about 'all live unto God"?
I think Jesus being transformed was a case of their eyes being opened to see him more like he really is, and seeing Moses and Elijah was a "vision" because that's what scripture calls it.
"Now you may tell no one of the vision till the Son of Mankind may be roused from among the dead." (Matthew 17:9)
I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father. I think the dead are not alive because the body returns to the soil, the soul to the unseen, and the spirit to God. I think Moses and Elijah will eventually be resurrected, but only Christ has immortality now.
"...our Lord, Christ Jesus, which, to its own eras, the happy and only Potentate will be showing: He is King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian!" (1 Timothy 6:14-16)
Perhaps you misspoke, "I think the "voice out of the cloud" was not a vision but the audible voice of the Father.
Joh 5:37 `And the Father who sent me Himself hath testified concerning me; ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor His appearance have ye seen;
Just me thinking :2c:
Brother, I think John 5:37 should be understood in the sense that those who weren't chosen among the Jews couldn't see or hear according to God's will.
"What Israel is seeking for, this she did not encounter, yet the chosen encountered it. Now the rest were calloused, even as it is written, God gives them a spirit of stupor, eyes not to be observing, and ears not to be hearing, till this very day." (Romans 11:7,8)
Here's another occasion when it seems like it's the Father who is speaking about his son, Jesus.
"Now, being baptized, Jesus straightway stepped up from the water, and lo! opened up to Him were the heavens, and He perceived the spirit of God descending as if a dove, and coming on Him. And lo! a voice out of the heavens, saying, "This is My Son, the Beloved, in Whom I delight."" (Matthew 3:17)
I used to have a hard time understanding how there could be a separate voice from that of Christ's because he is the word of God, but, if it wasn't the Father's voice, whose was it?
I was going to use the same verse but from Luke, I felt it would only stir the thought more. As to who or what "voice/sound/disclosure," it was, I don't know. But according to Jesus, it was not the Father's. Now how the Father did what He did so that the "voice/sound/disclosure," was heard, I do not know.
Well, I guess there's a possibility that there was a ventriloquist in the crowd, but I kind of doubt it.
You are being humorous now right? :dsunny:
Humor is what keeps me going, bro, when all else fails.
:laugh:
Quote from: rosered on October 13, 2014, 01:34:56 AM
I love the transfiguration did a deeper study of it years ago and forgot most of it ...
:laughing7: isn't that just the way!?
Quote from: rosered on October 13, 2014, 01:34:56 AM
but the ones picked to go and witness this amazing thing , and they seeing the glimpse of Jesus glory to come :HeartThrob:
for me and me only, I see the Moses / law and prophets /Elijah as all 3 gathered together as witnesses to this GLORY
Oh..! I've always wondered about the two.. in this vision.. that makes sense.. represent the law(Moses) and the prophets(Elijah) :thumbsup: :smile:
Quote from: rosered on October 13, 2014, 01:34:56 AM
....and Jesus be fulfilling all the law and prophets Do not think that I have come to revoke The Written Law or The Prophets; I am not come to revoke but to fulfill.
this is why He stood alone , and the Father spoke and said this is my son hear him !
and Jesus words also to us as to them
On these two commands depend/ hang all The Written Law and The Prophets.
Amen "to love God and also" our fellow person.. "love is the fulfilling of the law" :banana:
Quote from: rosered on October 13, 2014, 01:34:56 AM
QuoteWas it a snap shot of what was to come on the day of Pentecost?
I would say Yes
:iagree: :iagree:
Amen,, Thanks sis Marie , for bring out even more ! :thumbsup:
Quote from: Molly on October 13, 2014, 03:20:17 PM
New International Version
As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, "Don't tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead."
It happens at the feast of tabernacles, which will be the fulfillment of the mystery of God.
5Then the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land lifted up his right hand to heaven, 6and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, WHO CREATED HEAVEN AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE EARTH AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE SEA AND THE THINGS IN IT, that there will be delay no longer, 7but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets.
--Rev 10:6
amen a finishing of the works of the earth.. then later, Rev 21:3 "And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God."
He will tabernacle with man on an Earth made new in a universe made new.. :banana: :cloud9:
Quote from: Molly on October 13, 2014, 03:20:17 PM
Revelation 21:6
He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life.
Quote from: rosered on October 13, 2014, 04:30:43 PM
...But God said Hear my Son , hear what the Spirit is saying His/ Jesus , testimony IS THE SPIRIT OF PROPHECY and than Jesus was ALONE ...
Does not anyone understand the powerful sign of this ???
Isaiah 63 God's Judgment on the Nations
...2Why is Your apparel red, And Your garments like the one who treads in the wine press?
3"I have trodden the wine trough alone, And from the peoples there was no man with Me.
! :Chinscratch: very interesting! :smile:
Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day-he saw it and was glad.....
no...Father Abraham..but if someone goes to them from the dead..they will repent....
but he said to them....IF they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets..they will not
be persuaded..even if someone rises from the dead[Moses/Elijah were speaking with Jesus
about his departure]
Quote from: sheila on October 13, 2014, 07:52:52 PM
Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day-he saw it and was glad.....
no...Father Abraham..but if someone goes to them from the dead..they will repent....
but he said to them....IF they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets..they will not
be persuaded..even if someone rises from the dead[Moses/Elijah were speaking with Jesus
about his departure]
Sheila, I know it goes against what some folks were taught, including me, but I think scripture says the dead stay dead, including believers, until we're resurrected when Christ meets us in the air. I also think the story of "The Rich Man And Lazarus," which happens to be one part of a five part parable, is an example of Christ using the false teachings of the Pharisees against them.
http://concordant.org/expohtml/HumanDestiny/lazarus1.html
so the voice being talked about in this thread.. is two.. like two threads (sorry, just kidding :laughing7: )
two occasions, that is.. the voice the 3 heard on the Mountain of transfiguration that day..
Then when Jesus told some pharisees "you have never heard His voice.." right? or did He speak that to the disciples..?
Okay, gotta check..
- "For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him,[a] because He had done these things on the Sabbath. 17 But Jesus answered them.." from John 5:16,17..
continued on, and it's verse 37 where He says "but you have neither heard His voice at any time, or.."
He could have by then been also talking to the crowd, including disciples..
Who heard the voice at Jesus' baptism? some who were there, or only the Baptist?
"When all the people were baptized, it came to pass that Jesus also was baptized; and while He prayed, the heaven was opened. 22 And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, "You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.".." Luke 3:21-22
:Chinscratch: I'm thinking "you have neither heard His voice at any time" likely spoken to the Pharisees(?) who were giving Him a hard time..
Quote from: Tom on October 13, 2014, 08:11:34 PM
Quote from: sheila on October 13, 2014, 07:52:52 PM
Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day-he saw it and was glad.....
no...Father Abraham..but if someone goes to them from the dead..they will repent....
but he said to them....IF they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets..they will not
be persuaded..even if someone rises from the dead[Moses/Elijah were speaking with Jesus
about his departure]
Sheila, I know it goes against what some folks were taught, including me, but I think scripture says the dead stay dead, including believers, until we're resurrected when Christ meets us in the air. I also think the story of "The Rich Man And Lazarus," which happens to be one part of a five part parable, is an example of Christ using the false teachings of the Pharisees against them.
http://concordant.org/expohtml/HumanDestiny/lazarus1.html
I never thought of that! I know it's parable only.. Lazarus and the rich man.. but using false teachings against.. :Chinscratch: I have thought.. making fun of.. and, or using Greek high drama..
very interesting...
I also thought part of high Greek drama, in a sense.. what Irony.. "wouldn't believe, even if one were to come back from the grave and tell them" speaking of His self!! (?)
But also at the transfiguration, the account in Luke (9:31) says "and spoke of His desease" death which He should accomplish at Jerusalem.."
I've wondered if they didn't indeed appear, but having come outside of time, so in a sense had come back in time..? :o? :Chinscratch:
Quote from: marie glen on October 13, 2014, 08:14:24 PM
so the voice being talked about in this thread.. is two.. like two threads (sorry, just kidding :laughing7: )
two occasions, that is.. the voice the 3 heard on the Mountain of transfiguration that day..
Then when Jesus told some pharisees "you have never heard His voice.." right? or did He speak that to the disciples..?
Okay, gotta check..
- "For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him,[a] because He had done these things on the Sabbath. 17 But Jesus answered them.." from John 5:16,17..
continued on, and it's verse 37 where He says "but you have neither heard His voice at any time, or.."
He could have by then been also talking to the crowd, including disciples..
Who heard the voice at Jesus' baptism? some who were there, or only the Baptist?
"When all the people were baptized, it came to pass that Jesus also was baptized; and while He prayed, the heaven was opened. 22 And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, "You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.".." Luke 3:21-22
:Chinscratch: I'm thinking "you have neither heard His voice at any time" likely spoken to the Pharisees(?) who were giving Him a hard time..
I agree.
"What Israel is seeking for, this she did not encounter, yet the chosen encountered it. Now the rest were calloused, even as it is written, God gives them a spirit of stupor, eyes not to be observing, and ears not to be hearing, till this very day." (Romans 11:7,8)
Quote from: marie glen on October 13, 2014, 08:14:24 PMbut you have neither heard His voice at any time, or..
I think "voice" can also have the meaning of understanding.
Right or even believing.
Quote from: Tom on October 13, 2014, 08:11:34 PM
Quote from: sheila on October 13, 2014, 07:52:52 PM
Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day-he saw it and was glad.....
no...Father Abraham..but if someone goes to them from the dead..they will repent....
but he said to them....IF they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets..they will not
be persuaded..even if someone rises from the dead[Moses/Elijah were speaking with Jesus
about his departure]
Sheila, I know it goes against what some folks were taught, including me, but I think scripture says the dead stay dead, including believers, until we're resurrected when Christ meets us in the air. I also think the story of "The Rich Man And Lazarus," which happens to be one part of a five part parable, is an example of Christ using the false teachings of the Pharisees against them.
http://concordant.org/expohtml/HumanDestiny/lazarus1.html
I am one who does not believe the dead stay dead in the last mortal breath they take Bro Tom
I think the believers reward is JESUS BODY the promised land and they go straight into this reward
Jesus is the reward [My rewards are with Me]
I believe the dead are raise even now more so than the working Jesus was doing as the Father sent Him to do , I think its greater even now
and we may not see the dead as the same thing
a timeless truth for me means
always , not bound by time nor the will of mankind
19But Yeshua answered and said to them: "
Timeless truth I tell you: The Son cannot do anything of his own will, but the thing that he sees The Father is doing;
for those things that The Father does, these also The Son does like him. 20For The Father loves his Son and he shows him everything he does;
greater deeds than these He will show him, that you may be astonished.
21
For just as The Father raises the dead and gives them life, thus also The Son gives life to them whom he will. 22For it is not The Father who judges a man, but he has given all judgment to The Son
23That everyone should honor The Son as one honors The Father. He who does not honor The Son is not honoring The Father who sent him.24
Timeless truth I speak to you: "Whoever hears my word and trusts in him who has sent me has the eternal Life, and he comes not into judgment, but he moves from death into Life.
25
Timeless truth I speak to you:
The hour is coming, it is even now, when the dead shall hear the voice of The Son of God, and they who hear shall live. 26
For just as The Father has The Life in himself, so he has given also to The Son to have The Life in himself. 27And he has given him authority to also do judgment because he is The Son of Man. 28Do not be astonished at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29And they shall come out: those who have done good things, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil deeds, to the resurrection of judgment.30I cannot do anything of my own will, but according to that which I have heard, I judge, and my judgment is just, for I am not seeking my will, but the will of him who has sent Me.
31And if I testify about myself, my testimony is not true. 32There is another who testifies about me, and I know that his testimony
, which he testifies of me, is true. you see none can make that call , I believe Jesus here totally
and that is why no man knows not angels , even Jesus but the Father only !! each in his own order as Paul also says it about resurrection to life from the dead
Just maybe its many, do not understand the meaning of serving the Living God means ?
What does this mean to you Tom , I am just wondering why to believe the dead are all dead still ?I know the place of the dead is where the dead stay also , so we agree there is a place of the dead but I think ALL believers are not dead
,
I know the old testament says Solomon with wisdom of the earth said this about the dead , But Jesus come and speaks clearly a greater than Solomon is here and present He is the resurrection
I believe the Resurrection is always just as Jesus Christ is always , but that is just me and maybe some others I am not sure , God knows sis
Shelia I know does
Moses and the prophets,as well as Jesus Christ was whom the Lord God spoke[give His word] unto
the people. the people had said 'do not have God to speak to us,lest we die" and so God
had Moses and prophets to speak for Him to the people..sending finally the 'word of God' come
in flesh..through His son. Jesus said 'that if ye had believed Moses..ye would believe in me"
God's covenant with Abraham was to those that believed the word of God to them.......
and the promised 'seed' was Jesus Christ. when God cut the covenant with Abraham
Abraham wore himself out all day..shooing the birds from it.......he fell asleep and
great dreadful darkness come......and a smoking furnance and a torch passed between
the pieces...the smoking furnace[God on the Mount speaking with Moses/law/shiningface]
and the torch =Jesus/Elijah[prophesy spirit..torch passed to Elisha[if ye see me when I am
taken] and unto the disciples[promise Holy spirit poured out] SPEAK TO THE ROCK AND
WATER WILL POUR FORTH
though seeing they may not see,though hearing they may not understand...
beware the birds of the air..ye along the path..{Luke 8}
Quote from: marie glen on October 13, 2014, 07:35:03 PM
Quote from: Molly on October 13, 2014, 03:20:17 PM
New International Version
As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, "Don't tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead."
It happens at the feast of tabernacles, which will be the fulfillment of the mystery of God.
5Then the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land lifted up his right hand to heaven, 6and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, WHO CREATED HEAVEN AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE EARTH AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE SEA AND THE THINGS IN IT, that there will be delay no longer, 7but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets.
--Rev 10:6
amen a finishing of the works of the earth.. then later, Rev 21:3 "And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God."
He will tabernacle with man on an Earth made new in a universe made new.. :banana: :cloud9:
Quote from: Molly on October 13, 2014, 03:20:17 PM
Revelation 21:6
He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life.
Amen! :banana: :banana: :banana:
The Return of the Lord 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
--1 Thess 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_Us_E551Z4
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 13, 2014, 06:09:27 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 13, 2014, 05:55:58 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 13, 2014, 02:17:03 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 13, 2014, 12:16:28 AM
I think the whole thing was a preview of the coming eon
And that eon started shortly after the Mat 28:16 ?
I think the next eon starts when Christ returns.
http://www.saviourofall.org/charts/ChartOfJudgments.html
How old are "some standing here" now?
Matthew 16
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
But if I drive out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
--Luke 11:20
:2c:
We are the pioneer outpost of the kingdom of God which has come in part (in this age)and is coming fulness in the ages to come. "Sit thou at my right hand until I make all thine enemies a footstool for your feet". The last enemy if death. When death is subjected, God will be ALL IN ALL. When God is all in all- the kingdom will be complete throughout all creation.
In us the kingdom will be complete when God is "all in all"- in us, imo at the redemption of our bodies