Should We Support the building of the Third Temple in Jerusalem?

[Molly]

We cannot be obedient unless we are given a new heart [the heart of Christ] and unless the finger of God [the Holy Spirit] writes His laws on our new heart.  That was the whole point of the Old Covenant--to teach us just that.  But he makes a new Covenant with the house of Judah [Jews] and the house of Israel [Christians] where He [Y'shuah] does all the work.  This happens first for the Gentiles, and at the end of the age, for the Jews.  But the Jews were always part of the everlasting covenant promised to Abraham by God and this will be the fulfillment of the everlasting covenant.

First of all, the first covenant was OLAM, not everlasting. The old covenant has faded and has no power to define the identity of God's people today. This is why the covenant of circumcision changed into no longer being valid according to the flesh.

I have no disagreement that we cannot be obedient unless God gives the new heart. But that proves that identity as God's people is according to ELECTION BY GRACE not genetic heritage.

It was always by grace, Seth.  The everlasting covenant was made to Abraham by grace.  It is a gift that no man can earn. 

The covenant made on Mount Sinai does not annul the everlasting covenant.  That Sinai covenant was conditional and based on keeping the law, which the Israelites promised to do.  But, of course, we cannot do it in our own power.   That is why God reaffirmed the everlasting covenant by grace to the house of Judah and the house of Israel.  These 12 tribes are the only ones named under the covenant, have you noticed that?  A will has beneficiaries, and they are the named beneficiaries.  They are the elect.  How do we identify them?  By faith.  We are justified by faith!  That is why Martin Luther jumped out of his chair when he first read the New Testament.  Our faith alone identifies us as partakers of the everlasting covenant and heirs under the will.

Now I say that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all,  2 but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father.  3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world.  4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law,  5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

6 And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!"  7 Therefore you are no longer a slave but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

--Galatians 4

When he says, "with the house of...,"  He's talking about all of them.

God does not break His promises, which is why Paul calls them, IRREVOCABLE.

Absolutely, the election is to eventual salvation. Not conditional. But being part of Israel is conditional and always was conditional.

Exodus 19:5-6
Now IF you obey me fully and keep my covenant, THEN out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites."

Deuteronomy 28:1-2
IF you obey the LORD your God, here are the blessings that will come to you and remain with you. The LORD your God will make you his holy people. He will set you apart for himself. He took an oath and promised to do that. He promised to do it IF you would keep his commands and live exactly as he wants you to live.

Conditional.

Jeremiah 9
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will punish all them which are circumcised with the uncircumcised; Egypt, and Judah, and Edom, and the children of Ammon, and Moab, and all that are in the utmost corners, that dwell in the wilderness: for all these nations are uncircumcised, and all the house of Israel are uncircumcised in the heart.

The seed is not you or me.
The seed is Christ:

The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.

That is why those who are in Christ are the seed.   We are and so will the Jews know they are when God pours our His spirit on them at the end of the Age.

That is when they will be grafted back into the tree.

This is getting too messy for me to answer.  We have to start with a new post.  But, remember, the elect were chosen before the foundation of the world.  Although there may be phases and stages as it plays out in linear time for our edification, there is nothing conditional going on about the elect, which includes the Jews.

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,...

--Eph 1

[Seth]

The covenant made on Mount Sinai does not annul the everlasting covenant.  That Sinai covenant was conditional and based on keeping the law, which the Israelites promised to do.  But, of course, we cannot do it in our own power.   That is why God reaffirmed the everlasting covenant by grace to the house of Judah and the house of Israel.  These 12 tribes are the only ones named under the covenant, have you noticed that?  A will has beneficiaries, and they are the named beneficiaries. 

They are named as EVENTUAL beneficiaries in the prophecy that Paul mentions. They will EVENTUALLY become the people of God. But, today, there is one seed of Abraham which has always been defined by God's sovereign choice, not on the flesh, not on genetic heritage alone.

This is getting too messy for me to answer.  We have to start with a new post.  But, remember, the elect were chosen before the foundation of the world.  Although there may be phases and stages as it plays out in linear time for our edification, there is nothing conditional going on about the elect, which includes the Jews.

Nothing conditional. Ok, let's go back to the scripture.

Exodus 19:5-6
Now IF you obey me fully and keep my covenant, THEN out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites."

Deuteronomy 28:1-2
IF you obey the LORD your God, here are the blessings that will come to you and remain with you. The LORD your God will make you his holy people. He will set you apart for himself. He took an oath and promised to do that. He promised to do it IF you would keep his commands and live exactly as he wants you to live.

There is no argument that the INEVITABILITY of their re-grafting is guaranteed and irrevocable. But for today, God's people are those who have faith in Christ. God has ONE people, who he has defined NOT as the children of the flesh, but as the children of the promise.

That goes all the way back to Genesis 12. He said "unto you and your seed" BUT NOT ISHMAEL, even though Ishmael was the genetic seed of Abraham. God didn't define that until Genesis 28. That reveals that genetic heritage was NEVER A GUARANTEE to be the seed, but it was always by God's sovereignty according to his own conditions. And those conditions are further defined in the new covenant.

To affirm genetic heritage based on Genesis 12 is to necessarily include Ishmael in the promises. To exclude Ishmael is to admit that genetic heritage was never a guaranteed condition of the identity of Abraham's seed.

Therefore, not only was it never guaranteed then, it's not guaranteed today. For to be a Jew is not (that's a denial) outward according to the flesh. A Jew is one who is cirumcised in the heart according to the Spirit.

[Molly]

Seth, the elect are in two different dispensations with regard to their knowledge and understanding of Christ.

Believing Jews worship YHWH.  Well, who is YHWH?

The Jews have not read the last half of the book, --they do not yet know who they are in Christ.  You have to read the whole book.

Were we the elect before we believed?   Yes, of course we were, because we were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.

The Jews are our brothers in Christ who have been temporarily blinded to the truth for our sakes.

But it is the end of the age, imo, so it's time for us to understand who we are and who they are.

Yet the number of the children of Israel
Shall be as the sand of the sea,
Which cannot be measured or numbered.
And it shall come to pass
In the place where it was said to them,
'You are not My people,'[d]
There it shall be said to them,
'You are sons of the living God.'

11
Then the children of Judah and the children of Israel
Shall be gathered together,
And appoint for themselves one head;
And they shall come up out of the land,
For great will be the day of Jezreel!

--Hosea 1


I have to go to work.

[Seth]

The Jews are our brothers in Christ who have been temporarily blinded to the truth for our sakes.

Luke 8:21
And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.

Galatians 3
16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 29And IF ye be Christ's, THEN are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Jesus himself denied genetic heritage as a way to be his brother. His brothers are defined as the seed of Abraham. That is not based on genetic heritage and never was.

Romans 11
6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

That is a reference to Ishmael and why Ishmael is not the seed of Abraham, even though he was genetically descended.  This is how Paul is proving that "not all Israel is Israel." He is proving that by showing that just because Ishmael was a seed of Abraham, God did not use that fact to define the people of God. He CHOSE to define that according to election, not genetic heritage.

Therefore, if the non-believing Jews are brothers in Christ, then so are the non-believing Arabs, because they all descended from Abraham. If you point to Genesis 28 to show that Isaac defines the seed, that is admitting that genetic heritage never guaranteed an identification as Abraham's seed.

That happens to be the exact point Paul is making by saying that those who are Christ's are the seed of Abraham, not according to the flesh.

[dajomaco]

  WOW

Good to see you Molly and    Seth back   as well! and Micah !!   dajo  all as we go into it !!


  I love this and   am thankful for you    all  to God for His blessing

      We realize  NOT   all of Israel is Israel   IS REAL       right ?
and we all have perspectives   as  a view or prospect   in the possibility or likelihood of some future event occurring.

For me to believe this   very important  clue Paul  said plainly  for us   here today to understand is that     not all Israel is   HOLY  Spiritual   in nature but  carnal     still  and another spirit is   in operation  the old spirit in man that  opposes     Jesus Christ called the Antichrist spirit   


  just as those   , gentiles     being all   other nations are not of the Holy   ONE  and  of another   spiritual  in    nature    either


  the old   spirit    of   the old  creation    does not know love  of God    though Jesus Christ     , being the very gift of grace      given by the Father for the world   

  because they   still hate  all other nations       this    kind of  hate    is the enmity   against the HOLY SPIRIT    and only love their own kind  , not as  humans mind you , only humans are capable of loving their own and not very   good at even that .
Jesus Christ said to those whom  desired to kill Him   , forgive them Father for they    do not know what they are doing   
  the spirit in them   does not know the Love of God given   to them by the gift of grace in Jesus Christ ,  they / those spirits that desire to be known as   gods , reject   the ONE TRUE GOD     by   not having a new Spirit of Jesus Christ in them   to even be born again ,    they are of that old nature and   creation   of the wilderness

they will come in last      because they will know in the end  the Truth
   What they believe is truth    is still    a strong delusion   and the same  spirit of slumber      that was  placed in Adams heart / mind when the Lord  God
created    Eve  mother of all the living   out of His side


  and  for me , this is just my  understanding      and only what I can   get  now is    ,   until the    Bride is complete and comes out of  Jesus Christ side that was hidden in his bosom  and come out by water and blood       by the spears of those soldiers  /spirits that oppose Him as Antichrists      and can morn  him  in seeing whom they  pierced     , its was in Gods  good    mercies to do this  and show us      what man meant for evil God  showed       all of us     the good  to come from it
  You see for me  , ITS ALWAYS BEEN GOD THE FATHER    THOUGH     JESUS WOULD COME DOWN TO US AND DWELL WITH US     and not us to go up  to them       but to be surrounded  by     the Heavenly hosts / angels   and pillars  of smoke and the   fire    of Gods consuming   
always in His presence you can see the pattern   of the   wilderness        and the tabernacle    built       in this place       ,  and we know the   world is a wilderness  full of dangers and   wanderings and    where the faith of them all are tested      all the children     of Israel  died there     , till those generations died   and were no more
  we also in the same manner       die   that same  way  according  to the pattern       all things are yours  , you will also   die  many deaths     and seek a better Resurrection     the Lord will raise you up again into the new and better   and this can happen over and over again ,
Paul said I die daily ,   the DAY      is the Lords Day     and its a judgement to    remit   or retain     hold  you  or   let you grow   stronger in truth and grace  by the SPIRIT OF HOLINESS
  blessed in the sight of the Lord are the death of His saints HOLY ONES      they sure are  raised up again into a better Resurrection    this is what Paul was  desiring  and addressing       in some scriptures      , did you ever notice  he was  ever changing       and  growing in more truth and grace and not stagnating     in one place ?       
  He looked though as glass darkly in one place and in another place He was speaking of   being known  as Jesus was known   and face to face ?
and spoke with both    the tongues of man and of angels ?       and went on into more  knowledge   and      revelation/revealing  of Christ
     Perfection comes by the inward working of the Holy Spirit and truth  within your walls of salvation    [Jerusalem    the teaching of peace  , Jesus peace the good news of the gospel  for all  mankind      to be  changed and made new creatures in Christ


here we can see what spirit is in a man  that opposes  and oppresses   the HOLY SPIRIT   till   its taken out of the way



Testing the Spirits

1Beloved, every spirit believe not, but prove the spirits, if of God they are, because many false prophets have gone forth to the world;

2in this know ye the Spirit of God; every spirit that doth confess Jesus Christ in the flesh having come, of God it is,

3and every spirit that doth not confess Jesus Christ in the flesh having come, of God it is not; and this is that of the antichrist, which ye heard that it doth come, and now in the world it is already.

4Ye — of God ye are, little children, and ye have overcome them; because greater is He who [is] in you, than he who is in the world. 5They — of the world they are; because of this from the world they speak, and the world doth hear them;

6we — of God we are; he who is knowing God doth hear us; he who is not of God, doth not hear us; from this we know the spirit of the truth, and the spirit of the error.

Love Comes from God
7Beloved, may we love one another, because the love is of God, and every one who is loving, of God he hath been begotten, and doth know God;

8he who is not loving did not know God, because God is love.

9In this was manifested the love of God in us, because His Son — the only begotten — hath God sent to the world, that we may live through him;

10in this is the love, not that we loved God, but that He did love us, and did send His Son a propitiation for our sins.

11Beloved, if thus did God love us, we also ought one another to love;

12God no one hath ever seen; if we may love one another, God in us doth remain, and His love is having been perfected in us;

13in this we know that in Him we do remain, and He in us, because of His Spirit He hath given us. 14And we — we have seen and do testify, that the Father hath sent the Son — Saviour of the world;

15whoever may confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God in him doth remain, and he in God;


16and we — we have known and believed the love, that God hath in us; God is love, and he who is remaining in the love, in God he doth remain, and God in him. 17In this made perfect hath been the love with us, that boldness we may have in the day of the judgment, because even as He is, we — we also are in this world;


18fear is not in the love, but the perfect love doth cast out the fear, because the fear hath punishment, and he who is fearing hath not been made perfect in the love; 19we — we love him, because He — He first loved us;

20if any one may say — 'I love God,' and his brother he may hate, a liar he is; for he who is not loving his brother whom he hath seen, God — whom he hath not seen — how is he able to love?

21and this [is] the command we have from Him, that he who is loving God, may also love his brother.


  these things can   go on and on   
we  just know that    we must be changed        from the opposing     Jesus Christ to   allied  the  Gathering   and siding   as friends and family    into Christ   as all the new testament  witnesses  testifies to

in conflict or competition with a specified or implied subject.
"the opposing team"
synonyms:   rival, opposite, enemy, antagonistic
"opposing sides in the war"

differing from or in conflict with each other."the brothers fought on opposing sides in the war"   Ismael's  the  natural    realm and the Issac's spiritual  realm

Thinking differently    , repenting     always  be ready to   be more and more  Like    Jesus Christ the  first begotten  son of God  in the new creation   as His possession  ...   with a new regenerating     seed/ word and    Holy Spirit  renewal   this is without end
    got a little long  :sigh:  sorry

When the chief priests and the temple police saw Him, they shouted, "Crucify! Crucify!"
Pilate responded, "Take Him and crucify Him yourselves, for I find no grounds for charging Him."
7 "We have a law," the Jews replied to him, "and according to that law He must die, because He made Himself[a] the Son of God."


But they shouted, "Take Him away! Take Him away! Crucify Him!"
Pilate said to them, "Should I crucify your king?"
"We have no king but Caesar!" the chief priests answered.
16 So then, because of them, he handed Him over to be crucified.


But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and at once blood and water came out. 35 He who saw this has testified so that you also may believe. His testimony is true, and he knows he is telling the truth. 36 For these things happened so that the Scripture would be fulfilled: Not one of His bones will be broken.[j] 37 Also, another Scripture says: They will look at the One they pierced.[k]


Paul learned a lot in his walk ,he came to the conclusion that he knew one thing
Christ and him crucified .

The crucifixion with the knowing of LOVE.
To hold the crucifixion in our consciences, while administrating LOVE.

God does not reject the Jews for crucifying Christ.
They reject themselves for believing that God could not forgive them for killing messiah.
As scriptures says    They will look at the One they pierced.

No one wants to own the evil and let God overwhelm with the GOOD.

[rosered]

  Right BRO Daj
  I know that  we all crucified Him because all have sinned  :thumbsup:

Everyone knows  that  they  were first  and  now last and those last shall be first   , this is by Gods  design   ,  not mine  :winkgrin:
but all will   be saved


the Jewish nation was called to  work the vineyard  , it was than given to a nation that   was considered foolish to  them    , It prophecy being fulfilled  Isaiah   59 ,  60


     1'For the reign of the heavens is like to a man, a householder, who went forth with the morning to hire workmen for his vineyard,

2and having agreed with the workmen for a denary a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3'And having gone forth about the third hour, he saw others standing in the market-place idle,

4and to these he said, Go ye — also ye — to the vineyard, and whatever may be righteous I will give you;

5and they went away. 'Again, having gone forth about the sixth and the ninth hour, he did in like manner.

6And about the eleventh hour, having gone forth, he found others standing idle, and saith to them, Why here have ye stood all the day idle?

7they say to him, Because no one did hire us; he saith to them, Go ye — ye also — to the vineyard, and whatever may be righteous ye shall receive.

8'And evening having come, the lord of the vineyard saith to his steward, Call the workmen, and pay them the reward, having begun from the last — unto the first.


9And they of about the eleventh hour having come, did receive each a denary.


10'And the first having come, did suppose that they shall receive more, and they received, they also, each a denary

, 11and having received [it], they were murmuring against the householder, saying,


12that These, the last, wrought one hour, and thou didst make them equal to us, who were bearing the burden of the day — and the heat.


13'And he answering said to one of them, Comrade, I do no unrighteousness to thee; for a denary didst not thou agree with me?


14take that which is thine, and go; and I will to give to this, the last, also as to thee;


15is it not lawful to me to do what I will in mine own? is thine eye evil because I am good?



16So the last shall be first, and the first last, for many are called, and few chosen

[dajomaco]

 Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

Instead of helping Israel see the signs.
We should help them see the one they pierced.

[rosered]

Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

Instead of helping Israel see the signs.
We should help them see the one they pierced.

Amen,  that was  just  beautiful Bro Daj!!!   :thumbsup:


  :HeartThrob:

[Molly]

Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

Instead of helping Israel see the signs.
We should help them see the one they pierced.

Yes, the Messiah is a stumbling block to both them and us--

14"Then He shall become a sanctuary; But to both the houses of Israel, a stone to strike and a rock to stumble over, And a snare and a trap for the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 15"Many will stumble over them, Then they will fall and be broken; They will even be snared and caught."...

--Isaiah 8


--To us because we don't feel worthy and to them because they do not know who He is.  They irk us because they reject Christ and we irk them because we have grabbed hold of Him. 

The parable of the prodigal son is about the house of Israel and the house of Judah [Christians and Jews].  The house of Israel was divorced and went to slop  pigs in the nations.   The house of Judah stayed married to God and carried the law to the nations and gave birth to the Messiah.  Look at the attitude of both sons in the parable, and of the father.


The Parable of the Lost Son

11 Then He said: "A certain man had two sons.  12 And the younger of them said to his father, 'Father, give me the portion of goods that falls to me.' So he divided to them his livelihood.  13 And not many days after, the younger son gathered all together, journeyed to a far country, and there wasted his possessions with prodigal living.  14 But when he had spent all, there arose a severe famine in that land, and he began to be in want.  15 Then he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country, and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.  16 And he would gladly have filled his stomach with the pods that the swine ate, and no one gave him anything.

17 "But when he came to himself, he said, 'How many of my father's hired servants have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!  18 I will arise and go to my father, and will say to him, "Father, I have sinned against heaven and before you,  19 and I am no longer worthy to be called your son. Make me like one of your hired servants."'

20 "And he arose and came to his father. But when he was still a great way off, his father saw him and had compassion, and ran and fell on his neck and kissed him.  21 And the son said to him, 'Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight, and am no longer worthy to be called your son.'

22 "But the father said to his servants, 'Bring out the best robe and put it on him, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet.  23 And bring the fatted calf here and kill it, and let us eat and be merry;  24 for this my son was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' And they began to be merry.

25 "Now his older son was in the field. And as he came and drew near to the house, he heard music and dancing.  26 So he called one of the servants and asked what these things meant.  27 And he said to him, 'Your brother has come, and because he has received him safe and sound, your father has killed the fatted calf.'

28 "But he was angry and would not go in. Therefore his father came out and pleaded with him.  29 So he answered and said to his father, 'Lo, these many years I have been serving you; I never transgressed your commandment at any time; and yet you never gave me a young goat, that I might make merry with my friends.  30 But as soon as this son of yours came, who has devoured your livelihood with harlots, you killed the fatted calf for him.'

31 "And he said to him, 'Son, you are always with me, and all that I have is yours.  32 It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.'"


--Luke 15



It had to happen this way because of this promise made  to Abraham:


17indeed I will greatly bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your seed shall possess the gate of their enemies. 18"In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice."

--Genesis 22

[micah7:9]

Should We Support the building of the Third Temple in Jerusalem?

No. :2c:

[Seth]

 :iagree:

[dajomaco]

 :iagree:

[Seth]

I believe Israel has a right to exist as a nation. But I also believe that they have a right to make a peace treaty with Palestine to consider them a nation without being accused of violating the promises of Genesis 12. Since the seed inheritor is defined through the sons of Abraham as God chooses, and their descendants, Jesus Christ inherited the promises of Genesis 12. Therefore, Israel is free to make a treaty without being shamed and warned by Christian Zionists. I know that's not exactly the point of the OP, but I think it factors in.

Supporting the building of a new temple in the place that Jews currently understand it to have been means certain war with Islam because the Dome of the Rock must be destroyed there. That is an unnecessary war. The seed of Abraham as defined through the new covenant is being built as a temple unto itself.

[Molly]

It's not a matter of whether we should support a third temple.  It's a matter of--We should support Israel and the Jews.

Of course, the Bible predicts we won't in general because the love of many will grow cold and it will be the time of Jacob's trouble for the last 3.5 years of the tribulation.   Even so, it hurts my heart to witness it.  The Jews will once more be persecuted and scattered.






Jeremiah 30 New King James Version (NKJV)

Restoration of Israel and Judah

The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,  2 "Thus speaks the Lord God of Israel, saying: 'Write in a book for yourself all the words that I have spoken to you.  3 For behold, the days are coming,' says the Lord, 'that I will bring back from captivity My people Israel and Judah,' says the Lord. 'And I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.'"

4 Now these are the words that the Lord spoke concerning Israel and Judah.

5 "For thus says the Lord:


'We have heard a voice of trembling,
Of fear, and not of peace.

6
Ask now, and see,
Whether a man is ever in labor with child?
So why do I see every man with his hands on his loins
Like a woman in labor,
And all faces turned pale?

7
Alas! For that day is great,
So that none is like it;
And it is the time of Jacob's trouble,
But he shall be saved out of it.



8
'For it shall come to pass in that day,'
Says the Lord of hosts,
'That I will break his yoke from your neck,
And will burst your bonds;
Foreigners shall no more enslave them.

9
But they shall serve the Lord their God,
And David their king,
Whom I will raise up for them.



10
'Therefore do not fear, O My servant Jacob,' says the Lord,
'Nor be dismayed, O Israel;
For behold, I will save you from afar,
And your seed from the land of their captivity.
Jacob shall return, have rest and be quiet,
And no one shall make him afraid.

11
For I am with you,' says the Lord, 'to save you;
Though I make a full end of all nations where I have scattered you,
Yet I will not make a complete end of you.
But I will correct you in justice,
And will not let you go altogether unpunished.'

12 "For thus says the Lord:


'Your affliction is incurable,
Your wound is severe.

13
There is no one to plead your cause,
That you may be bound up;
You have no healing medicines.

14
All your lovers have forgotten you;
They do not seek you;
For I have wounded you with the wound of an enemy,
With the chastisement of a cruel one,
For the multitude of your iniquities,
Because your sins have increased.

15
Why do you cry about your affliction?
Your sorrow is incurable.
Because of the multitude of your iniquities,
Because your sins have increased,
I have done these things to you.



16
'Therefore all those who devour you shall be devoured;
And all your adversaries, every one of them, shall go into captivity;
Those who plunder you shall become plunder,
And all who prey upon you I will make a prey.

17
For I will restore health to you
And heal you of your wounds,' says the Lord,
'Because they called you an outcast saying:
"This is Zion;
No one seeks her."'



18
"Thus says the Lord:


'Behold, I will bring back the captivity of Jacob's tents,
And have mercy on his dwelling places;
The city shall be built upon its own mound,
And the palace shall remain according to its own plan.

19
Then out of them shall proceed thanksgiving
And the voice of those who make merry;
I will multiply them, and they shall not diminish;
I will also glorify them, and they shall not be small.

20
Their children also shall be as before,
And their congregation shall be established before Me;
And I will punish all who oppress them.

21
Their nobles shall be from among them,
And their governor shall come from their midst;
Then I will cause him to draw near,
And he shall approach Me;
For who is this who pledged his heart to approach Me?' says the Lord.

22
'You shall be My people,
And I will be your God.'"



23
Behold, the whirlwind of the Lord
Goes forth with fury,
A continuing whirlwind;
It will fall violently on the head of the wicked.

24
The fierce anger of the Lord will not return until He has done it,
And until He has performed the intents of His heart.


In the latter days you will consider it.

[Tom]

I feel compassion for the Jews too, sis, but I know that God is operating all according to his will which includes them being temporarily blinded until the nations receive the evangel. Then a time will come when they will have their kingdom of the heavens that they've always hoped for, and even the nations that persecuted them will be subjected to their Messiah.

[sheila]

I see great symbology in that 'golden dome[head] of the rock[stone]..image....in these times...

      babylon confusion religion[worship]...jewish people wailing at that wall[what I close no one can

open]   David desired to build God a house..but God said..'I will build you a house' unless

the Lord builds the house the workers will work on it in vain.  not a stone left upon a stone...

  a white-washed wall will bulge and fall.........Jesus builds His church upon a rock.....the[rock]

revelation that He is the Son of God revealed by God and not man....a sure foundation......

  why the foundation rock of the Dome is dissolving as we speak..........

    the 'rock' that the people of Israel should be seeking after is that spiritual rock.........

    never-the-less when He accepts them back in..it will be as life from the dead...dead works

  the works of their own hands/burnt up...and the Works of God's hands[right and left seated]

   will be their salvation.

[Seth]

It's never been a question of love. Christians are called to love EVERYONE and do good for all men.

But if it is a matter of doing good for Jews only and fighting Muslims based on theology, I don't believe Christian Zionists have a case.

[rosered]

It's never been a question of love. Christians are called to love EVERYONE and do good for all men.

But if it is a matter of doing good for Jews only and fighting Muslims based on theology, I don't believe Christian Zionists have a case.

    Either do in my opinion    Bro Seth ,
its based on the wisdom of men and Not God those things they seek as signs will be to their own destruction and the knowledge of the Muslims  will be the very Word that  ends them


  THE WORD OF GOD IS SURE and tested over and over again     just like a refining FIRE       
those   Words  do  not judge unless you are accepting     to   be  judged    are the  very core of Truth   by the HOLY SPIRIT WITNESS     !

Praying for His mercy on all    concerned       

[Seth]

 :dsunny:

[WhiteWings]

I see great symbology in that 'golden dome[head] of the rock[stone]..image....in these times..

Before the muslims conquered. Jerusalem Church of the Holy Wisdom stood on the spot the dome is now.  That church was nicknamed  "The House and the stone"  because it was build over the stone/rock/pavement Jesus stood on before Pilate......

[rosered]

I see great symbology in that 'golden dome[head] of the rock[stone]..image....in these times..

Before the muslims conquered. Jerusalem Church of the Holy Wisdom stood on the spot the dome is now.  That church was nicknamed  "The House and the stone"  because it was build over the stone/rock/pavement Jesus stood on before Pilate......

Interesting     facts  Bro  Tony 
I see them as  trying to make   an object  holy/ idol  but denying the   very  power  of their existence , Who is God Himself  :sigh:
   the Messiah is the power of God

5Who have a form of God-worship and are far from his power;


remove from you those who are such.


6For some of them are these who crawl house to house and capture women buried in sins and are led to various lusts,


7Who are always learning and are never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.



8But just as Jannes and Jambres arose against Moses, in this way also they have withstood the truth, persons who corrupt their minds and are rejected from faith


. 9But they will not proceed to their advancement, for their madness is known to every person, just as theirs was also known.
 

[Seth]

Not that I get involved in another country's politics, but I personally believe that building another temple could result in just more hardness as to what the temple signifies. It has to do with the understanding Paul shared that they shadows are not "the very thing." Without that understanding, I think the Bible shows that the shadows have a hardening effect. But WITH that understanding the shadows have a revelatory effect.

[rosered]

Not that I get involved in another country's politics, but I personally believe that building another temple could result in just more hardness as to what the temple signifies. It has to do with the understanding Paul shared that they shadows are not "the very thing." Without that understanding, I think the Bible shows that the shadows have a hardening effect. But WITH that understanding the shadows have a revelatory effect.

  I believe the true temple is the Holy ONE    JESUS CHRIST and what comes out of Him is the    true Church 

1Peter 2
4And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men,


but is choice and precious in the sight of God,

     we are coming to Him    and chosen of God   to be aSPIRITUAL HOUSE not made with hands of men  , by by the Very Spirit of God Himself

5you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6For this is contained in Scripture: "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER stone, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

[Seth]

 :iagree:

[Seth]

I think this shows that no man can actually build the temple of God with his own hands. Building another physical temple at the cost of lives and all the money and work, just to have it revealed in time that the works of their hands got them no closer to God than they were before, why would I support an effort like that? I'd rather point to Christ instead. Paul himself said that he had to consider all his former objects of pride as DUNG in order to win Christ.