Should We Support the building of the Third Temple in Jerusalem?

[Seth]

ISIS needs Jesus just like Israel. I don't think the Body owes anyone anything except to love their neighbors and to spread the ministry of reconciliation.

[marie glen]

Even long before WW2 there was anti semitic propaganda.. to the point of saying Jews drank the blood of Christian children.. I actually saw some material like this back in the 80's when some acquaintances of mine swallowed the whole 10 lost tribes thing.. and how Jews were not really Israel, but were tares, the tares.. like all are holy but one ethnicity, good grief, but they certainly were not about to listen to me (however all tribes were numbered in the census by Nehemiah.. and Anna the prophetess/widow at the temple at Jesus's circumcision, for example was not from one of the two tribes of Judah; also when Cyrus said "let all Israel, in all my empire, go home, that empire included Assyria where the 'lost ten tribes' had been carried off to).

The acquaintance's marriage crumbled.. their health crumbled.. I figure (and witnessed) in their case, they actually embraced hatred of Israel, and any kind of hatred or anti-sentiment is very detrimental to one, but especially against fellow believers and yes against (imo) Israel who God chose to birth the son of God into the world, and who has been pursued and persecuted for centuries. There's a prophecy "I will avenge their blood which I have not avenged" or something like that which makes me think of that horror the holocaust, and where (some of) modern politics which has returned to being against Israel is headed.. Part and parcel of YHWH letting men's choices, even if limited, run their course.. (Just how will the black clad vultures rise to the top? in order to carry out  Rev 20:4b? Oh I forget that's myth/analogy? won't happen..)

The valley of dead bones (Ezekiel) i believe is prophecy of the regathering of Israel to their ancient homeland... "when you see the fig tree leaf.."

[marie glen]

ISIS needs Jesus just like Israel. I don't think the Body owes anyone anything except to love their neighbors and to spread the ministry of reconciliation.

I cannot think that it can be 'wrong' to be against the actions of Isis.. or to have been against hitler, pol pot, stalin, and a whole host of others, under which millions of innocents, or that is everyday folks, suffered quite terribly..

[Seth]

I believe the Bible teaches that ALL sin is corrosive and destructive. Their marriage could have failed for the very presence of hate itself, regardless of who it was directed at. My personal opinion.

[Seth]

ISIS needs Jesus just like Israel. I don't think the Body owes anyone anything except to love their neighbors and to spread the ministry of reconciliation.

I cannot think that it can be 'wrong' to be against the actions of Isis.. or to have been against hitler, pol pot, stalin, and a whole host of others, under which millions of innocents, or that is everyday folks, suffered quite terribly..

I am against the actions of anyone who hates and kills.

[dajomaco]

but Israel prayed to YHWH and won


Can Israel pray as a nation to GOD?

When a nation prays to God don't they need to pray to the same God.

As an American which God would you pray to
Protestant Jesus
Catholic Virgin Mary
Muslims Allah Sunni  Shiite
Jewish orthodox
Jewish liberal.

As an individual can you represent a whole nation in prayer?

[Seth]

ISIS needs Jesus just like Israel. I don't think the Body owes anyone anything except to love their neighbors and to spread the ministry of reconciliation.

I cannot think that it can be 'wrong' to be against the actions of Isis.. or to have been against hitler, pol pot, stalin, and a whole host of others, under which millions of innocents, or that is everyday folks, suffered quite terribly..

And by the way, if at any time Israel rounds up a bunch of people and slaughters them, I would be against that too, and would fear no reprisal from God because there is no condemnation for anyone who is in Christ who walks according to the Spirit.

[marie glen]

ISIS needs Jesus just like Israel. I don't think the Body owes anyone anything except to love their neighbors and to spread the ministry of reconciliation.

I cannot think that it can be 'wrong' to be against the actions of Isis.. or to have been against hitler, pol pot, stalin, and a whole host of others, under which millions of innocents, or that is everyday folks, suffered quite terribly..

And by the way, if at any time Israel rounds up a bunch of people and slaughters them, I would be against that too, and would fear no reprisal from God because there is no condemnation for anyone who is in Christ who walks according to the Spirit.

Absolutely.. :thumbsup:

[Tom]

Amen

[marie glen]

but Israel prayed to YHWH and won


Can Israel pray as a nation to GOD?

When a nation prays to God don't they need to pray to the same God.

As an American which God would you pray to
Protestant Jesus
Catholic Virgin Mary
Muslims Allah Sunni  Shiite
Jewish orthodox
Jewish liberal.

As an individual can you represent a whole nation in prayer?

I just read this a facebook friend posted.. it's her own words.. so i just had to come back and post it..

"Europe is raging with antisemitism while buckling under to sharia law... the Mideast is immersed in a blood bath... and we are apologizing to the leaders of the ideology that is making this happen.
As a student of history, I'm here to tell you this is NOT GOOD. WWII began in a similar fashion. When the world turns against the Jews and embraces madmen.... as their saviors..."

I have read much of the Koran..

[Seth]

I am personally very confused about this line:

When the world turns against the Jews and embraces madmen.... as their saviors

Is the opposite of that to turn TO the Jews as their saviors? What BOTH the Muslims and Jews have turned their backs on is JESUS.

[dajomaco]

but Israel prayed to YHWH and won


Can Israel pray as a nation to GOD?

When a nation prays to God don't they need to pray to the same God.

As an American which God would you pray to
Protestant Jesus
Catholic Virgin Mary
Muslims Allah Sunni  Shiite
Jewish orthodox
Jewish liberal.

As an individual can you represent a whole nation in prayer?

I just read this a facebook friend posted.. it's her own words.. so i just had to come back and post it..

"Europe is raging with antisemitism while buckling under to sharia law... the Mideast is immersed in a blood bath... and we are apologizing to the leaders of the ideology that is making this happen.
As a student of history, I'm here to tell you this is NOT GOOD. WWII began in a similar fashion. When the world turns against the Jews and embraces madmen.... as their saviors..."

I have read much of the Koran..

I think if you have won your freedom by WAR.
Then you must protect your freedom by WAR.
The best protection is Offence

[Tom]

Well, I think there are many gods in this world, but I pray to the living God who is the same God as the one written about in the Hebrew scriptures. That doesn't make me Jewish though. I was raised in the Roman Catholic Church, but that doesn't make me Catholic either because I left that church a long time ago. Catholics will tell you they don't worship Mary, but then why should they pray to her because scripture says her son is who is the only mediator between God and man? I say this being the son of a man who prays to Mary on his rosary everyday. I used to worry about him going to hell, but that was as crazy as the Catholic Church telling me my mom was going to hell for being a Methodist. Jews, Christians, and Muslims all claim to be children of Abraham, but scripture says not all his children of the flesh are children of God, only the children of the promise. We of the nations have been made joint partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus (Ephesians 3:6). I'm not "against the Jews," Muslims, Catholics, or Protestants "for it is not ours to wrestle with blood and flesh, but with the sovereignties, with the authorities, with the world-mights of this darkness, with the spiritual forces of wickedness among the celestials" (Ephesians 6:12). I think there are militants in many religions including all of the ones I've mentioned. Muslims are killing Muslims over who should take over for Muhammad, and he died a long time ago. The ones that seem to be causing the most destruction in the news these days are the Islamic State, but there seem to be bad vibes among some folks in all religions. I saw a YouTube video the other day of a Christian guy on the street in Israel getting mistreated by some orthodox Jews. There are some Catholics and Protestants that still hate each other in Ireland. I don't think any of these folks are doing what God told them to do.

"You will love your associate as yourself." (Leviticus 19:18)

"You shall love your associate as yourself." (Romans 13:9)

"You shall love your associate as yourself." (Galatians 5:14)

[rosered]

  This I do not touch , but  ask May the Lord Judge in His mercy for all concerned



loving your enemies  means   loving those whom hate you  , what good is it to love your own ?  everyone does that  ,  and  to  choose sides  shows partiality  and respect of persons


and if the Adversary did rise against himself, and hath been divided, he cannot be made to stand, but hath an end.

[RaiderGonzo]

Can you support Israel nationally and politically?

Or is Nationalism dead if you're a Universalist?

[Tom]

I think I pay plenty of taxes to support the USA. I'm not interested in supporting any other nation. I don't think believing in universal reconciliation has anything to do with politics.

[RaiderGonzo]

The reason I ask that question Tom, is because a lot of folks believe that supporting a nation, such as Israel per say, is in fact supporting Bible prophecy. But if as like the Parable of Lazarus, the rich man did not live up to its part of the deal, and so the poor man became the beneficiary, how then can the "State" of Israel still be considered in the inheritance spoken about Biblically?

[eaglesway]

Paul prayed for Israel to find Messiah. He taught us to pray for those who are in authority so that peace would prevail through order so that the gospel could go forth. I don't think he instructed anyone to support the rebellions of the Jews against Rome, or to support geo-political initiatives to advance prophecies.

All such man- powered efforts lead to chaos, and God does use chaos to bring man to the end of his posturing and scheming and killing- but we are the solution only when we "see the kingdon" and pray, "Your kingdom come, Your will be done on earth as it is in heaven".

Seeing the signs of the times in geo-political events is a worthy thing, imo but seeking to put our hands to things that are too great for our understanding(except maybe unless specifically led by the Spirit in some prophetic way) is a recipe for heartache and disaster, imo.

[Tom]

The reason I ask that question Tom, is because a lot of folks believe that supporting a nation, such as Israel per say, is in fact supporting Bible prophecy. But if as like the Parable of Lazarus, the rich man did not live up to its part of the deal, and so the poor man became the beneficiary, how then can the "State" of Israel still be considered in the inheritance spoken about Biblically?

I think prophecy about Israel in scripture will come to pass, and I know God chose them for his special purpose. I'm glad they got their homeland back. I think it's sad they don't know their Messiah, but it's all according to God's will. A time will come when they will no longer be persecuted by their enemies surrounding them, and Christ will actually subject those nations from Israel.

[micah7:9]

There is a totally different Israel today.

[dajomaco]

The end times used to be as exciting as Hell.

I could ignore the guilt of not telling my neighbors about Jesus,
because God was coming and wiping them all out any way.

Then this terrible game of pretending to LOVE my neighbor as myself would be over.

[eaglesway]

The end times used to be as exciting as Hell.

I could ignore the guilt of not telling my neighbors about Jesus,
because God was coming and wiping them all out any way.

Then this terrible game of pretending to LOVE my neighbor as myself would be over.

LOL "The end-times used to be as exciting as hell".... Great. Love it ;o)

[micah7:9]

The end times used to be as exciting as Hell.

I could ignore the guilt of not telling my neighbors about Jesus,
because God was coming and wiping them all out any way.

Then this terrible game of pretending to LOVE my neighbor as myself would be over.

LOL "The end-times used to be as exciting as hell".... Great. Love it ;o)

:rolllol: :rolllol:

[eaglesway]

I remember being a brand new Christian at 20 years old, and running into literature by Southwest Bible Church, a fundamentalist group dispensing radical "end times now" tracts and booklets.

I was in a panic for months. I was driving my (unbelieving) family insane. I was walking in fear not faith. I was making decisions based on false information. I became a wreck :o)

Now I am 60. I think during my walk I have seen several international "end times now"scares.

Well, when it all hits the fan I guess there will be someone standing around saying "I told you so!- but that wont mean they were really prophets or even knew Jesus.

There will always be people saying "That's it! That's the sign of the end" and surely it draws near, but

Simple math says there will be someone like those folks who freaked me out when I was 20 thumping their backs as if they brought it on by their faith- like the guys who were prophesying that Pheonix and Las Vegas were going to get destroyed by nuclear terrorism a few years ago. Big shots in the apostles/prophets movement getting major dough at Christians conventions to get believers all worked up and under there thumbs.

91:1 He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High
Shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of the Lord, "He is my refuge and my fortress;
My God, in Him I will trust."
3 Surely He shall deliver you from the snare of the fowler[a]
And from the perilous pestilence.
4 He shall cover you with His feathers,
And under His wings you shall take refuge;
His truth shall be your shield and buckler.
5 You shall not be afraid of the terror by night,
Nor of the arrow that flies by day,
6 Nor of the pestilence that walks in darkness,
Nor of the destruction that lays waste at noonday.
7 A thousand may fall at your side,
And ten thousand at your right hand;
But it shall not come near you.
8 Only with your eyes shall you look,
And see the reward of the wicked.
9 Because you have made the Lord, who is my refuge,
Even the Most High, your dwelling place.

"Woe unto you who say "The day of the Lord, the day of the Lord! For the day of the Lord will be to you like when a man runs from a bear and meets a lion"(Amos)

Get in the secret place of the most high! That's the solution to the end times!
"Fear not what they call conspiriacy, Fear me" says the Lord.

He is the only safety, the only clear word, the only sure refuge, the only victory.

[eaglesway]

Isaiah 8:12-13
"Do not say, 'A conspiracy,' Concerning all that this people call a conspiracy, Nor be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled. The Lord of hosts, Him you shall hallow; Let Him be your fear, And let Him be your dread.