Jesus receiving the Holy Spirit without measure

[micah7:9]

Altho I dont neccessarily disagree with your post, it is pretty clear to me 1 Tim 6:16 is speaking of the Father. Jesus has been seen, after His glorification. It is YHWH who "alone is immortal and dwells in unapproachable light". Jesus died, He is the first fruits from the dead. He is not qualified(imo) for the description who is alone is immortal", Jesus died and was raised from the dead, resurrected by the Spirit of holiness, the same Spirit that will "quicken our mortal bodies".

I would like to see a little contextual and linguistic evidence for the distinction between "resurrected" and "vivified". I am not sure that distinction is sustainable across the New Testament usage of anastasis (resurrection).

I don't have much time to reply because I have to go take care of some business today, but, since scripture says Christ is the only one immortalized so far when he was resurrected, it seems to me there is a difference because all the other folks who were resurrected died again. Dead believers will be resurrected and vivified when Christ meets all believers in the air, and dead unbelievers will be resurrected for judgment at the great white throne, die again the second death, and then be resurrected and vivified when death is abolished, right? I'm sorry for the quick reply with no scripture references, but I've got to run. I'll be back in touch later today.

PS: I think 1 Timothy 6:16 refers to Christ because it seems like only mortals can be immortalized. The light blinded Saul which is why Christ couldn't be seen. I'll be back this evening. God bless you, brother.

1 Timothy 6:16 refers to the Father :dsunny:

[marie glen]

There is only One resurrection.

hi! do you have some verses? ..or? I'm interested to find how you have come to that conclusion :gsmile:

:Chinscratch: :Chinscratch: Revelation 20:5 New King James Version (NKJV)

"5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."
--------------------------------------

"7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison.." (from 8-12) "and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners... to gather them together to battle... And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet [imo, institutions of man active at Jesus' return] are. And they will be tormented day and night..
...Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them." 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books."

---------------------------------------------

Revelation 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years."

                :Peace2: God bless! :smile:

[micah7:9]

There is only One resurrection.

hi! do you have some verses? ..or? I'm interested to find how you have come to that conclusion :gsmile:

:Chinscratch: :Chinscratch: Revelation 20:5 New King James Version (NKJV)

"5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."
--------------------------------------

"7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison.." (from 8-12) "and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners... to gather them together to battle... And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet [imo, institutions of man active at Jesus' return] are. And they will be tormented day and night..
...Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them." 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books."

---------------------------------------------

Revelation 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years."

                :Peace2: God bless! :smile:

My mistake dont really know what I was thinking :sigh: :sigh:

[Tom]

and dead unbelievers will be resurrected for judgment at the great white throne, die again the second death, and then be resurrected and vivified when death is abolished, right?

I hate to be a buttinskee, but this sounds so cold.... some of those folks have never, ever heard of Jesus.. no matter what the 2nd death/lake of fire is, it doesn't sound like a day at the park.. why if it's God's choice and choosing who is "elect" and who isn't, why should most of they suffer any more than we did on our way to repentance? {to all believers everywhere, imagine your self being resurrected from your grave when you were an unbeliever..}

For the hard core habitual haters of God.. okay.. fine.. hitler.. pol pot.. etc, etc.. jes sayin.. :hiya:
why isn't judgment day seen as an age..? what? resurrection? boom.. you're in the lake of fire.. it don't set right.. doesn't click.. jes don't jive.. imo, that is!
                       :Peace2:

I'm sorry Marie. I didn't mean to post something that "sounds so cold" as you say. I was just trying to be brief because I was in a hurry. I was just trying to make a point that I think resurrection and being vivified are two different things. I don't know if any other version of scripture uses the word "vivified," but the Concordant Version uses it to mean giving life beyond death (immortality) which is what I think only Christ has received so far (1 Timothy 6:16), what believers will receive when Christ meets us in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17), and all mankind will receive at the consummation of the eons (1 Corinthians 15:20-28). I understand what you're saying about "the second death-the lake of fire." I think God is merciful in his judgments, and the "great white throne" will be no exception. I can tell that you're a compassionate woman by your concern for the unbelievers who, according to God's will, were not chosen for eonian life. When I was kid in the Catholic Church, I couldn't understand why God wouldn't let infants who die into heaven. That was back when the Catholic Church still pushed the idea of Limbo. I really got an attitude when I was told that my mom would be going to hell because she was a Methodist. It's no wonder I got out of that church as soon as I could and tried every crazy thing I could seeking the truth because I knew that couldn't be it. I think a lot of folks have a distorted idea about "the lake of fire" by assuming it is pain inflicted as a punishment for unbelievers. I think the only torment will be when unbelievers see the Lord and realize how they let him down, and the degree of that will vary according to each one's sins. I think death will come quickly, and the dead will not be conscious to suffer any pain because the dead know nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5). I think the fire is just a purifying agent. Here's a link with some good information.

http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheProblemOfEvil/evil029.html

[micah7:9]

and dead unbelievers will be resurrected for judgment at the great white throne, die again the second death, and then be resurrected and vivified when death is abolished, right?

I hate to be a buttinskee, but this sounds so cold.... some of those folks have never, ever heard of Jesus.. no matter what the 2nd death/lake of fire is, it doesn't sound like a day at the park.. why if it's God's choice and choosing who is "elect" and who isn't, why should most of they suffer any more than we did on our way to repentance? {to all believers everywhere, imagine your self being resurrected from your grave when you were an unbeliever..}

For the hard core habitual haters of God.. okay.. fine.. hitler.. pol pot.. etc, etc.. jes sayin.. :hiya:
why isn't judgment day seen as an age..? what? resurrection? boom.. you're in the lake of fire.. it don't set right.. doesn't click.. jes don't jive.. imo, that is!
                       :Peace2:

Day G2250
figuratively a period (always defined more or less clearly by the context): - age, + alway, (mid-) day (by day, [-ly]), + for ever, judgment, (day) time, while, years.

[Seth]

Personally, I believe, rather than knowing nothing, I believe the second death causes torment, testing, suffering loss and ultimately purification and repentance.

[eaglesway]

Here is where I will get a storm of disagreement, but since this a forum and I am only sharing my opinion- here goes :o)

I believe in the will of man and consequences that arise because of it. IMO those who "die in their sins" do so because they reject the light(whether you believe God causes them to do that or not is immaterial to what I am going to say).

The Lake of fire is for those whose names are not written in the book of life(WHATEVER YOU THINK THAT MEANS), for those who are to tread in the winepress of the wrath of God(Rev 14:10), for those unto whom Jesus says on the Day, "Depart from me.....into the fire prepared for the devil and his angels".

In this life, there is a level of flux concerning sin. A person may repent, unrepent, repent again and then re-repent- this is clear in the OT and the NT. Their status as regards the welness of soul that comes from fellowship with God "in the vine" can change.(parable of the lost sheep)

In my theory of it, those who die outside of this "salvation" will have a "harder way to go" than they would have had they relented to the conviction, the drawing, the knock upon the door in this life.

They, by their rejection of God during their time in the body, sealed themselves in their sinful state.

The reason it is better to cut off your hand, if it causing you to sin, now and enter the kingdom of heaven "maimed"(having suffered a loss- but for the sake of righteousness) is that the process of being separated from that iniquity that is "sealed in the tomb" in death is this- the lake of fire(rev 20), the winepress of the wrath of God(rev 14:10), aionian kolassis(correction) or aionian pur(fire)(mt 25:46)- as Jesus said, "Depart for me into the fire prepared for the adversary and His messengers"- imo it is a "harder way" to be brought to your knees than yielding to the Holy Spirit in this life.

This, at any rate, is the only way the warnings of Christ and all the apostles about the fire to come, the Day, etc- makes any sense to me. :2c:

[Seth]

 :iagree:

I personally think it's an experience brought about by their own actions for the purpose of revealing that God's way is much better.

[sheila]

I distinctly remember in my mid 20's..being told this ' you can listen to me and learn the easier way,

  or not listen and learn the hard way..BUT LEARN YOU WILL.

...it almost seemed like God was continuing the early discipline of my Mom......who,when it was time

  and I was due a 'switching'.I was told..that if I ran from it..I would get it twice as bad..   spare the rod/discipline

  type of thing.

   the thing is..down here..we 'catch hell' in one way or another....suffer for doing 'good' or suffer double

  for doing evil.   the kingdom of darkness will make sure'no good deed will go unpunished' sso that

suffering for obedience may be worked out for us...and Father will make sure any 'works of the devil"

brought forth by us are dealt with.

  we all[men] shall pass under the rod of the shepherd,like sheep......Ezekiel 20;37 Judgement and resoration

.....I will take note of you when you pass under my rod and will bring you into the bond of the covenant.

[rosered]

:iagree:

I personally think it's an experience brought about by their own actions for the purpose of revealing that God's way is much better.

  I too agree,  its the fruits of our doings  on how we are judged   by      mankind as well as the Lord ,    and anyone who does NOT believe this   ,is still in the dark    in my opinion ,


Know  one could know the joy I felt when the Lord  let  understand this parable /teaching   and take it to HEART!

  Apply it in the most personal manner  , so many more scriptures opened up     for me as well    , we can only speak from our personal experiences    as beings ,  both    natural and spiritual in  natures     , 
For me its the    Adam     whom eats of the tree of knowledge of good and evil    , KNOWING    both experiences  and its fruits /  results   of    those doings     



 
Matt  12 33"Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit. 34"You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart.

I had no idea  how a Near Death Experience       on You Tube   would effect me     so profoundly    I dont know if I am allowed to put this up   or if you could take this with a  grain of salt      I just know I cried     and cried
  with relief  in the end  , I cried with His sincerity    in    Jesus Christ   His savoir

  All I know is God is just and fair  and righteous    in all His ways  , everyone of them      , if this is someones  imaginations        than     the point was taken   very strongly    to make a believer  in the Lord  Jesus Christ    from an atheist        who did not believe in God   nor confessed Him    as Lord    to being so humbled and  has a testimony   to the Glory of God   though Jesus Christ        I dont dweel on it , but it did make me think    as to every idle   word spoken   shall also be   accounted for ...   

   some kind of holding tank   a personal prison  spoken of in    Peter and  Jude   without details   , a place unseen, a lost land , that is better off forgotten   that   was revealed  in details by    this one    I guess its up to us to   try and understand     the consequences    of  bad fruit   of our doings
I know God in His  mercy   will  end all suffering    ONE DAY     when God will be all in All   , but until that time comes   we wait on the Lord
If this is too terrible   we  can sure remove the link      quickly
 




    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MPHGt9LmfA   

[rosered]

I distinctly remember in my mid 20's..being told this ' you can listen to me and learn the easier way,

  or not listen and learn the hard way..BUT LEARN YOU WILL.

...it almost seemed like God was continuing the early discipline of my Mom......who,when it was time

  and I was due a 'switching'.I was told..that if I ran from it..I would get it twice as bad..   spare the rod/discipline

  type of thing.

   the thing is..down here..we 'catch hell' in one way or another....suffer for doing 'good' or suffer double

  for doing evil.   the kingdom of darkness will make sure'no good deed will go unpunished' sso that

suffering for obedience may be worked out for us...and Father will make sure any 'works of the devil"

brought forth by us are dealt with.

  we all[men] shall pass under the rod of the shepherd,like sheep......Ezekiel 20;37 Judgement and resoration

.....I will take note of you when you pass under my rod and will bring you into the bond of the covenant.

  Wow !!   I had no idea    you would say this    and it goes with   what was  placed on my heart to at least  try to share with others   
  not knowing    is easier than knowing some things   

  But our hope is in Jesus Christ    and we do not loose heart     ,  for His wrath is  for a moment  and His mercy endures    always


Young's Literal Translation
Mourning Turned into Dancing
1A Psalm. — A song of the dedication of the house of David. I exalt Thee, O Jehovah, For Thou hast drawn me up, and hast not let mine enemies rejoice over me.

2Jehovah my God, I have cried to Thee, And Thou dost heal me.

3Jehovah, Thou hast brought up from Sheol my soul, Thou hast kept me alive, From going down [to] the pit.

4Sing praise to Jehovah, ye His saints, And give thanks at the remembrance of His holiness,

5For — a moment [is] in His anger, Life [is] in His good-will, At even remaineth weeping, and at morn singing.

6And I — I have said in mine ease, 'I am not moved — to the age.

7O Jehovah, in Thy good pleasure, Thou hast caused strength to remain for my mountain,' Thou hast hidden Thy face — I have been troubled.

8Unto Thee, O Jehovah, I call, And unto Jehovah I make supplication.

9'What gain [is] in my blood? In my going down unto corruption? Doth dust thank Thee? doth it declare Thy truth?

10Hear, O Jehovah, and favour me, O Jehovah, be a helper to me.'

11Thou hast turned my mourning to dancing for me, Thou hast loosed my sackcloth, And girdest me [with] joy.

12So that honour doth praise Thee, and is not silent, O Jehovah, my God, to the age I thank Thee!

  :icon_flower:

[Seth]

the thing is..down here..we 'catch hell' in one way or another....suffer for doing 'good' or suffer double

  for doing evil.   the kingdom of darkness will make sure'no good deed will go unpunished' sso that

suffering for obedience may be worked out for us...and Father will make sure any 'works of the devil"

brought forth by us are dealt with.

  we all[men] shall pass under the rod of the shepherd,like sheep......Ezekiel 20;37 Judgement and resoration

.....I will take note of you when you pass under my rod and will bring you into the bond of the covenant.

:iagree:

God is wise. He has everything at his disposal to to complete his works.  :HeartThrob:

[Tom]

:iagree:

I personally think it's an experience brought about by their own actions for the purpose of revealing that God's way is much better.

  I too agree,  its the fruits of our doings  on how we are judged   by      mankind as well as the Lord ,    and anyone who does NOT believe this   ,is still in the dark    in my opinion ,


Know  one could know the joy I felt when the Lord  let  understand this parable /teaching   and take it to HEART!

  Apply it in the most personal manner  , so many more scriptures opened up     for me as well    , we can only speak from our personal experiences    as beings ,  both    natural and spiritual in  natures     , 
For me its the    Adam     whom eats of the tree of knowledge of good and evil    , KNOWING    both experiences  and its fruits /  results   of    those doings     



 
Matt  12 33"Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit. 34"You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart.

I had no idea  how a Near Death Experience       on You Tube   would effect me     so profoundly    I dont know if I am allowed to put this up   or if you could take this with a  grain of salt      I just know I cried     and cried
  with relief  in the end  , I cried with His sincerity    in    Jesus Christ   His savoir

  All I know is God is just and fair  and righteous    in all His ways  , everyone of them      , if this is someones  imaginations        than     the point was taken   very strongly    to make a believer  in the Lord  Jesus Christ    from an atheist        who did not believe in God   nor confessed Him    as Lord    to being so humbled and  has a testimony   to the Glory of God   though Jesus Christ        I dont dweel on it , but it did make me think    as to every idle   word spoken   shall also be   accounted for ...   

   some kind of holding tank   a personal prison  spoken of in    Peter and  Jude   without details   , a place unseen, a lost land , that is better off forgotten   that   was revealed  in details by    this one    I guess its up to us to   try and understand     the consequences    of  bad fruit   of our doings
I know God in His  mercy   will  end all suffering    ONE DAY     when God will be all in All   , but until that time comes   we wait on the Lord
If this is too terrible   we  can sure remove the link      quickly
 




    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MPHGt9LmfA

That video kind of reminded me of an experience I had. I left my body and was up above looking down at myself in a hospital bed until I started rushing through a spooky dark tunnel and then suddenly came into the brightest light I'd ever seen, brighter than the sun, but it didn't hurt my eyes. In the light, there was no spoken language, but I just intuitively experienced total peace and unconditional love. When I found myself back in my body in the hospital bed, I felt compelled to look in the drawer of the bedside stand, and there was nothing in it but a Gideon Bible. I wasn't familiar with scripture because I was raised Catholic, but I picked up that book and started to read it. I became overwhelmed with emotion at the realization that God really was speaking to me through the words in that book. I don't share this story very often because I don't want folks to think they need to have an out of body experience to believe that scripture is the word of God, but folks who have had this kind of experience all seem to come back with the same kind of realization that the spiritual realm is for real and God really is light and love. It seems we also all think we're given these experiences to share God's love with others. We shouldn't be thought of as special for having received these revelations because we are just channels through whom the holy spirit of God flows to those we're with. If God spoke through a donkey, we shouldn't be proud. I know much has been said about how some folks think these experiences are just hallucinations caused by brain chemistry. I experienced hallucinations before I had the experience I'm talking about here, and, just like everybody else who has had them, I thought the experience was not like a dream or a hallucination but more like ultimate reality. It really seemed more real than reality, but that's hard to communicate to someone who hasn't had the same kind of experience. I also believe I was guided by holy spirit to look in that drawer and pick up that Gideon Bible to read just as I also believe years later holy spirit mysteriously bounced me from a die hard King James website to a universal reconciliation site which began to clear up all the confusion I had up to that time due to distorted religious thinking. I have come to think a person's prior belief system does have some effect on how we perceive profound spiritual experiences, but I think we are given them to share with others as a sign that there is more to life than we see in the material world. Modern physics has revealed that the material world on which the atheists base their faith is really somewhat of an illusion that is controlled by an invisible force that seems to be a super intelligent mind when perceived on the quantum level. That's what we believers call God. Atheists mistakenly believe it is the laws of physics themselves that are the source of all because they don't realize there has to be a law maker responsible for the laws. The reason I think these types of spiritual experiences are perceived through our preconceived concepts is I now believe so called "hell" is simply the unseen state of dead souls not a torture chamber of whatever one may perceive. That's why I don't get shook up when I see videos like this about folks experiencing so called "hell." Mystical experiences are more common than most people realize, and they are perceived differently in different cultures. I used to be into Zen and then Tao. I left those philosophies behind because I came to the realization that, even though they seemed to reveal some truth about the universe, they're shortsighted because they don't reveal the source of all which transcends the universe and has a personal relationship with us through his son, Jesus Christ, who is not one of the so called ascended masters of new age philosophy but the word of God become flesh who died for the sins of the whole world and was resurrected and the first to be immortalized. I think the ecstasy achieved through meditation that is not focused on the word of God is shortsighted because you don't really understand the whole truth. You achieve ecstasy by orgasm, but you don't necessarily intellectually connect that to God even though you might be shouting "Oh God!" while you're experiencing it. Atheists don't realize we believers experience God on an intellectual level as well as spiritual because our faith is based on rational evidence that we interpret with our reason. For example, it's obvious God is the author of the DNA code that is present in all living things because the only source known to produce code is an intelligent mind not a random undirected process like evolution. Atheists who admit this say it must have been space aliens, but, if that's the case, where did their DNA come from? That doesn't explain how life began. Someone had to program the first living thing with DNA code. Human intelligence produces symbols for letters and numbers and even computer code but nothing as complex as the DNA code. Where does intelligence come from? I think it's irrational to believe it "evolved" from a rock. Atheistic scientists don't know what caused life to begin, and they don't know what consciousness is. Spirit is the power of life, action, and intelligence. God is spirit. Atheists just assume believers have blind faith, but I say it's the atheists who have blind faith in the material world because they don't perceive the power operating it. I think that's only because God has blinded them to it temporarily, but they will eventually also see the light. I think this is for the same reason that we experience evil even though we have seen the light. I think God is manifesting his power of love overcoming evil for the whole universe to see. I think we believers all have experiences in our lives that are signs that we interpret to mean that God is real and operating in our lives. I think the guy in this video experienced this version of "hell" because most of us were taught that our "immortal" souls will be tortured there for our sins unless we do what the church says, but I don't believe that anymore. I now think so called "hell" is really just the unseen state of dead souls where they are oblivious to anything because scripture says souls die and the dead know nothing. I think the death state is God's way of compressing perception of time because the last moment a person experiences consciousness while alive will probably seem like it is immediately followed by the moment that dead person becomes alive again in the presence of the Lord. From what I've seen, most folks who have so called "near death experiences" say they experience what could be described as heaven rather than "hell," but I think even these are perceived through our prism of past religious training and worldview. I think every person has a unique experience of the manifestation of the activity of spirit that we call life. I think we are a display of the power of God for the universe to see. It could be called the ultimate drama, but the older I get the more it seems like a comedy. After the Catholic Church told me my mom was going to hell for being a Methodist, and I left the church to seek the truth, my experience showed me that God is love, and the word of God is truth. That's what I share with those who listen. Don't let your religion cause you to lose faith in God because God loves you and will eventually even cause unbelievers, some who may be your loved ones, to realize that too when all are immortalized, reconciled with God through Christ, and God is all in all.     

[rosered]

I thought the experience was not like a dream or a hallucination but more like ultimate reality. It really seemed more real than reality, but that's hard to communicate to someone who hasn't had the same kind of experience. I also believe I was guided by holy spirit to look in that drawer and pick up that Gideon Bible to read just as I also believe years later holy spirit mysteriously bounced me from a die hard King James website to a universal reconciliation site which began to clear up all the confusion I had up to that time due to distorted religious thinking. I have come to think a person's prior belief system does have some effect on how we perceive profound spiritual experiences, but I think we are given them to share with others as a sign that there is more to life than we see in the material world. Modern physics has revealed that the material world on which the atheists base their faith is really somewhat of an illusion that is controlled by an invisible force that seems to be a super intelligent mind when perceived on the quantum level. That's what we believers call God. Atheists mistakenly believe it is the laws of physics themselves that are the source of all because they don't realize there has to be a law maker responsible for the laws. The reason I think these types of spiritual experiences are perceived through our preconceived concepts is I now believe so called "hell" is simply the unseen state of dead souls not a torture chamber of whatever one may perceive. That's why I don't get shook up when I see videos like this about folks experiencing so called "hell."

Thanks so much  Bro  Tom for sharing whats in your heart !!  , I  thought it was beautiful and your honest .

  God looks on the heart  :HeartThrob:

I do believe when God deals  with some one   in those ways they are changed   and many doubts removed

I too believe some of the  hellish experiences are     preconceived notions    and to do with   religious   upbringings  and a warped sense of   who  God  the Father really is  :sigh:

  But this man Bryan   Melvin ,    really   got to   me , His absolute  sincere    confession   was  a blessing   , I felt  he was not fake in the least   

I sure cannot say that about some of those stories   on You Tube .


I agree with you     in the sense of God who is love shall overcome all evil with good  !!

    God bless you my friend   :HeartThrob:

[Tom]

I understand why he got to you. It's hard to describe one's mystical experience without some emotion because it affects you deeply, and those you tell about it who are sensitive to the spirit can't help being affected by it also. God bless you too Rose.