Hi I was wondering about Jesus as our Savior and atonement and perfect example in the gospels
His birth of being conceived of the Holy Spirit and also explaining it to Nicodemus in John 4 Of how everyone born of the Spirit
I did wonder if this is only in the new testament and were the prophets of Old born of the Spririt also ? I do not think so because they were moved but not born of it , this was God doing His strange act ? By the new and open showing A Cornerstone in Zion Jesus Christ coming to earth and dwell with men making them the Holy temple of which you are , by Jesus being the Holy and Only foundation to build upon and so very much more than this
Why He had to go away that the Comforter would come .
(1 Corinthians 3:10-15; 1 Peter 2:4-12)
14Therefore, hear a word of Jehovah, ye men of scorning, Ruling this people that [is] in Jerusalem.
15Because ye have said: 'We have made a covenant with death, And with Sheol we have made a provision, An overflowing scourge, when it passeth over, Doth not meet us, Though we have made a lie our refuge, And in falsehood have been hidden.'
16Therefore, thus said the Lord Jehovah: 'Lo, I am laying a foundation in Zion, A stone — a tried stone, a corner stone precious, a settled foundation, He who is believing doth not make haste.
17And I have put judgment for a line, And righteousness for a plummet, And sweep away doth hail the refuge of lies, And the secret hiding-place do waters overflow.
18And disannulled hath been your covenant with death, And your provision with Sheol doth not stand, An overflowing scourge, when it passeth over, Then ye have been to it for a treading-place.
19From the fulness of its passing over it taketh you, For morning by morning it passeth over, By day and by night, And it hath been only a trembling to consider the report.
20For shorter hath been the bed Than to stretch one's self out in, And the covering hath been narrower Than to wrap one's self up in.
21For as [at] mount Perazim rise doth Jehovah, As [at] the valley in Gibeon He is troubled, To do His work — strange [is] His work, And to do His deed — strange [is] His deed.'
22And now, show not yourselves scorners, Lest strong be your bands, For a consumption, that is determined, I have heard, by the Lord, Jehovah of Hosts, [Is] for all the land.
Very little is said of this in the new testament except by Peter saying they were moved by the Holy Spirit
2 Peter 1
...20But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, 21for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.
Jesus was born and conceived of Holy Spirit , but did not have the Spirit without measure till the Baptism
I say this because of the scriptures that testify of how the child Jesus waxed strong in Spirit
Luke 2:40-52
40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
41 Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover.
42 And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast.
I wonder if it was during the baptism that He received the Spirit without measure to fulfill all righteousness ? , I ask this because Jesus was distressed till it was done to separate and divide the dead from the living , the hot and cold so to speak and fulfill all righteousness
says both the Spirit of God and Spirit of Christ
A Living Hope
...10As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow. 12It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven-- things into which angels long to look.
this verse
Luke 12 ;49 Not Peace, But Division
49"I have come to cast fire upon the earth; and how I wish it were already kindled! 50"But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished!
Because its than the the cloud and Dove and VOICE OF GOD SAID , THIS IS MY BELOVED SON HEAR HIM !
11'I indeed do baptize you with water to reformation, but he who after me is coming is mightier than I, of whom I am not worthy to bear the sandals, he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire, 12whose fan [is] in his hand, and he will thoroughly cleanse his floor, and will gather his wheat to the storehouse, but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.'
The Baptism of Jesus
(Mark 1:9-11; Luke 3:21-22; John 1:29-34)
13Then cometh Jesus from Galilee upon the Jordan, unto John to be baptized by him,
14but John was forbidding him, saying, 'I have need by thee to be baptized — and thou dost come unto me!'
15But Jesus answering said to him, 'Suffer now, for thus it is becoming to us to fulfill all righteousness,' then he doth suffer him.
16And having been baptized, Jesus went up immediately from the water, and lo, opened to him were the heavens, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon him,
17and lo, a voice out of the heavens, saying, 'This is My Son — the Beloved, in whom I did delight.'
This is so interesting to me right now ,. because I wondered for a long time how this all was done and yet never knew the order nor reasons why exactly ?
I know in order to receive your inheritance , one must die first and that being one of the many mysteries and reasons why Jesus died and rose in 3 days to fulfill the New Covenant Jesus would make it possible for mankind to know and dwell with God , His Spirit and Truth within them
while here by faith
This being one of the reasons when Jesus returned He only went to the ones whom knew Him already as a human being , and now we know Jesus Chrsit by the flesh no longer , nor anyone born of the Spirit of God though Jesus Christ , this regenerating of the seed is Christ and begin to make all things new and in order
He could have appeared to all men at that time perhaps , but than faith would not be faith and being born of faith is a BIG PART of Being born again and to be made a new creature in Christ .
I corrected some of this they drank from the same spiritual rock Jesus
I know Jesus going away though the baptism of death CROSS would bring THE HOLY SPIRIT IN POWER to those breathed upon
Romans 6 ;4Dead to Sin, Alive to God
...3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
This is kind of relating to the begettin joke in the other thread. I know I'm going to catch some heat for this, but I think Jesus was talking to Nicodemus about Israel being begotten anew in the coming eon, but we in Christ are a new creation.
"So that, if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation: the primitive passed by. Lo! there has come new!" (2 Corinthians 5:127)
I realize...
"For whoever are baptized into Christ, put on Christ, in Whom there is no Jew nor yet Greek, there is no slave nor yet free, there is no male and female, for you all are one in Christ Jesus. Now if you are Christ's, consequently you are of Abraham's seed, enjoyers of the allotment according to the promise." (Galatians 3:27-29)
"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is anything, but a new creation." (Galatians 6:15)
So there is no distinction "in Christ" between us and Jewish believers, but I think those in Israel who aren't "in Christ" are who was being referred to when Jesus spoke to Nicodemus about being begotten anew.
"We have found an unholy temple, an unspiritual priesthood, and now we are introduced to an ignorant teacher! Intense application to a single text book for a whole life had not taught him the elements of the truth! Nicodemus, however, was impressed with the Lord's works, little as he understood His words. Like the rest, he takes literally what is figurative. He should have known from Ezekiel, the prophet, that Israel could not enter the kingdom without a new spirit (Eze.36:26).
Spiritual regeneration, the one imperative condition, apart from which the kingdom cannot be entered, is utterly beyond his erudition. All that he considered vital was physical relationship with the favored nation.
The Lord did not give out regeneration as good news, but as bad news. This is not the gospel, even for the Circumcision. The evangel is always concerned with God and His Christ, never with man and his needs or efforts. Of the latter nothing good can be said, no evangel can be formulated. The new birth is not an evangel in any sense. It makes a demand he has no means of meeting.
For one like Nicodemus, expecting to enter the kingdom by physical generation, it would be quite a blow to demand spiritual regeneration. Men are utterly helpless in regard to their physical generation. They can do no more to accomplish their spiritual regeneration. It is the sovereign work of God's spirit.
Searching as the figure is, it does not probe nearly so deeply into human helplessness as the truth for the present economy of God's grace. Now, if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation (2 Co.5:17). In spirit, we skip the era of the kingdom, the renascence, and enter the new creation, over a thousand years later. A new birth will fit them for a life on earth during the millennial eon. The new creation fits us for our celestial destiny. They will receive a rejuvenation of the faculties, we will be changed at the resurrection and receive powers and capacities far beyond our present possibilities. Regeneration keeps company with repentance and baptism. The new creation accompanies the dispensation of the conciliation (2Co.5:18)." (Concordant Commentary pg.143)
Col. 1:19 For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.
Eph 4 He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.
Acts 2:32 This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore having been exalted [ag]to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear.
Quote from: Tom on October 01, 2014, 08:02:49 PM
This is kind of relating to the begettin joke. I know I'm going to catch some heat for this, but I think Jesus was talking to Nicodemus about Israel being begotten anew in the coming eon, but we in Christ are a new creation.
"So that, if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation: the primitive passed by. Lo! there has come new!" (2 Corinthians 5:127)
I realize...
"For whoever are baptized into Christ, put on Christ, in Whom there is no Jew nor yet Greek, there is no slave nor yet free, there is no male and female, for you all are one in Christ Jesus. Now if you are Christ's, consequently you are of Abraham's seed, enjoyers of the allotment according to the promise." (Galatians 3:27-29)
"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is anything, but a new creation." (Galatians 6:15)
So there is no distinction "in Christ" between us and Jewish believers, but I think those in Israel who aren't "in Christ" are who was being referred to when Jesus spoke to Nicodemus about being begotten anew.
"We have found an unholy temple, an unspiritual priesthood, and now we are introduced to an ignorant teacher! Intense application to a single text book for a whole life had not taught him the elements of the truth! Nicodemus, however, was impressed with the Lord's works, little as he understood His words. Like the rest, he takes literally what is figurative. He should have known from Ezekiel, the prophet, that Israel could not enter the kingdom without a new spirit (Eze.36:26).
Spiritual regeneration, the one imperative condition, apart from which the kingdom cannot be entered, is utterly beyond his erudition. All that he considered vital was physical relationship with the favored nation.
The Lord did not give out regeneration as good news, but as bad news. This is not the gospel, even for the Circumcision. The evangel is always concerned with God and His Christ, never with man and his needs or efforts. Of the latter nothing good can be said, no evangel can be formulated. The new birth is not an evangel in any sense. It makes a demand he has no means of meeting.
For one like Nicodemus, expecting to enter the kingdom by physical generation, it would be quite a blow to demand spiritual regeneration. Men are utterly helpless in regard to their physical generation. They can do no more to accomplish their spiritual regeneration. It is the sovereign work of God's spirit.
Searching as the figure is, it does not probe nearly so deeply into human helplessness as the truth for the present economy of God's grace. Now, if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation (2 Co.5:17). In spirit, we skip the era of the kingdom, the renascence, and enter the new creation, over a thousand years later. A new birth will fit them for a life on earth during the millennial eon. The new creation fits us for our celestial destiny. They will receive a rejuvenation of the faculties, we will be changed at the resurrection and receive powers and capacities far beyond our present possibilities. Regeneration keeps company with repentance and baptism. The new creation accompanies the dispensation of the conciliation (2Co.5:18)." (Concordant Commentary pg.143)
1 Pet 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you
I think we have been born again by the word implanted, and the new creation we are becoming is growing, first the shoot then the stalk....unto the full head of grain(eonian life) because of what we have already received in the new birth.
I realize that's the common understanding. That's why I said I knew I'd catch heat for saying what I did. I used to believe the same thing. I don't think it's something for fellow believers to get upset about though because I think we're going to disagree about various interpretations of scripture once in awhile. What we agree on is the death, entombment, and resurrection of Christ which is basic to our faith, and some have even been given the revelation of universal reconciliation. We're all family though, and families are going to have their disagreements. God bless you, bro.
PS: I just think we should agree to disagree on certain things because we all have our own perspective according to how we interpret scripture, and we should concentrate on what we agree on.
One of the things I heard from the New Testament classes I audited was that there was a diversity of opinion about various things among early believers, and it really can't be said that Christianity was just one doctrine. It seems that has continued throughout history despite the fact that the church accused those who disagreed with its doctrine of heresy. I think it is the church that doesn't conform to scripture though. Even those who believe scripture use various translations and have different interpretations. I think we're all supposed to love each other even though we don't agree on everything because we're all really one in spirit with Christ and the Father. I think we're all chosen to be ambassadors for Christ to those who need to be conciliated with God. Universal reconciliation is something it seems most believers are unaware of because of the doctrine they've been taught in the church. So we get a hard time from believers and unbelievers, but, as long as we share the truth in love, folks will be blessed whether they realize it or not. I just read online, according to the Jehovah Witnesses, Satan and his demons were cast down to earth from heaven 100 years ago today. How's that for a unique interpretation of scripture? I had to laugh when I read that because I've been accused of being a Jehovah Witness online.
Christ said we would be known by our love for one another (John 13:35). Some of us talked about peace and love back in the sixties, but I don't think some really understood the true source of that. Legal reefer came too late for me, but now I know you don't need it or any other enchantment to experience peace and love. It's not a matter of altered perception. It's a matter of faith. That's why I'm not concerned with debating various issues pertaining to scripture interpretation. I just enjoy being in the body of Christ because I know, even though we don't agree on everything, we really are all a family of loving living souls.
Hi,
Back from visiting my grandson & daughter come to see us . :HeartThrob:
Thanks Tom and Eaglesway /John
I am sorry Tom I read this but do not understand it :mblush:
I need to read it slowly and more completely
I always felt the twelve tribes of Israel are being judged right now ?
Because Jesus is sitting on His Throne now at the right hand of the Father ?
Matt 19 And Jesus said to them, 'Verily I say to you, that ye who did follow me, in the regeneration, when the Son of Man may sit upon a throne of his glory, shall sit -- ye also -- upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel;
some agree its now in the new realm that is going on was we speak and some say it is yet to appear
I dont really know exactly , But my faith as it as its truth now and the regeneration is happening graves opened
I Agree John that when He rose up and is the first-fruits of those who slept Matt 27 ;52
King James Bible
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Holman Christian Standard Bible
The tombs were also opened and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised.
International Standard Version
tombs were opened, and many saints who had died were brought back to life.
NET Bible
And tombs were opened, and the bodies of many saints who had died were raised.
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Tombs were opened, and many bodies of the Saints who were sleeping arose.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
The tombs were opened, and the bodies of many holy people who had died came back to life.
Jubilee Bible 2000
and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who slept arose
King James 2000 Bible
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints that slept arose,
American King James Version
And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
American Standard Version
and the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints that had fallen asleep were raised;
Douay-Rheims Bible
And the graves were opened: and many bodies of the saints that had slept arose,
Darby Bible Translation
and the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints fallen asleep arose,
English Revised Version
and the tombs were opened; and many bodies of the saints that had fallen asleep were raised;
Webster's Bible Translation
And the graves were opened, and many bodies of saints who slept, arose,
Weymouth New Testament
the tombs opened; and many of God's people who were asleep in death awoke.
World English Bible
The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised;
Young's Literal Translation
and the tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who have fallen asleep, arose,
and Is now the Lord of the dead and the living and Judging His House as the seals are opening
I did not realize that this subject was so varied different from one another ? :mblush:
I think folks resurrected back then all died again. There's a difference between being resurrected and vivified or immortalized. Only Christ has been immortalized so far (1 Timothy 6:16). Believers are next when Christ meets us in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17), and unbelievers will be vivified at the consummation of the eons when death is abolished (1 Corinthians 15:26). Most believers think, when you die, you go right to heaven or hell because the church adopted Plato's philosophy of immortality of the soul, but scripture says souls die (Ezekiel 18:4,20). That lie originally came from the serpent in the garden (Genesis 3:4). I think the judging of the twelve tribes of Israel will happen in the renascence or regeneration in the future because those to whom Christ spoke are dead now.
"Yet Jesus said to them, "Verily, I am saying to you, that you who follow Me, in the renascence whenever the Son of Mankind should be seated on the throne of His glory, you also shall sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."" (Matthew 19:28)
The same Greek word "paliggenesias" used for renascence there is used again in Titus though.
"Yet when the kindness and fondness for humanity of our Saviour, God, made its advent, not for works which are wrought in righteousness which we do, but according to His mercy, He saves us, through the bath of renascence and renewal of holy spirit, which He pours out on us richly through Jesus Christ, our Saviour, that, being justified in that One's grace, we may be becoming enjoyers, in expectation, of the allotment of life eonian." (Titus 3:5-7)
The Greek "dei humas(P) gennethenai anothen" in John 3:7 is translated as "Ye must be born again"(KJV), "It behoveth you to be born from above"(YLT), and "You(plural) must be begotten anew"(CLV).
The Greek "anagennesas hemas" in 1 Peter 1:3 is translated as "begotten us again"(KJV), "beget us again"(YLT), and "regenerates us"(CLV). I do not see the Greek "anothen" used in John 3:7 translated as "again" or "anew" in this verse.
Quote
So there is no distinction "in Christ" between us and Jewish believers, but I think those in Israel who aren't "in Christ" are who was being referred to when Jesus spoke to Nicodemus about being begotten anew.
Hi I just see those as still under the slavery of the Law of Moses or ''eating of '' the tree of Knowledge of good and evil.... and yet to come to Christ
I do see those set free in Christ as new creatures in Him and ''eating of '' the the Tree of Life
So we do have a different aspect on them things :Peace2: no worries though
I am alright with it though , God bless Tom
I agree about those in Israel "yet to come to Christ" because I think a day will come when they can't deny him anymore when he shows up again. God bless you too, sis.
Quote from: Tom on October 02, 2014, 01:38:47 AM
I agree about those in Israel "yet to come to Christ" because I think a day will come when they can't deny him anymore when he shows up again. God bless you too, sis.
just a note.. on how Jesus said about/to Israel (Jerusalem) "You shall not see me again until you say 'blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD." and I think this is why Rev 12:17 is Israel, and also Paul saying "if their" (Israel's) "falling away was salvation, what shall their gathering in be but life from the dead?" - which of course correlates to verses in Thessalonians chapter 4.. "those who are alive and remain at His return will not preceed those asleep in Christ, but the dead in Christ will rise first and then those still alive and remaining believers, will meet them in the sir at His return and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (then Zech 14:4, His feet touch down on Mt of Olives.."
..and I guess I believe all "must be born again" and that puts us "in Christ" and is how "all things in heaven and earth" will be "gathered into Jesus"... I'm not sure I'm understanding the other stances if it was other stances being expressed in this thread :smile: I don't think I was following (understanding)..
I'm sorry if I caused any confusion Marie.
Quote from: rosered on October 01, 2014, 04:25:37 PM
He could have appeared to all men at that time perhaps , but than faith would not be faith and being born of faith is a BIG PART of Being born again and to be made a new creature in Christ .
[/b]
I think faith (trust)
is part of the lesson..
It's my belief our heavenly Father is still creating mankind.. not done creating yet.. And that He could see all possibilities stretched out before Him before He did one act of creation, and that He then chose every way He has done things and chosen, in order to bring about the very best of all possibilities..
Why did He wait so long and only create the universe and man and woman not only after the first (bound to occur) rebel thought occurred but after it had matured into outright rebellion, trickery and sedition??
- i think so we all.. angel and man, would take this unavoidable journey/lesson, together all at once and for all eternity of the eternities.. Unavoidable that is, if there's to be thinking ability / rational creatures..
For with thinking ability, sooner or later comes the ability to make choices (albeit very limited). But I think God is both life and perfection, so to choose anything other than what He does in any teeny way is to become imperfect, the opposite of life, and thus all things fade.. (except He, who iS perfect).
But what was His other option? No rational creatures? ...ever?
At the confusing of the languages and scattering of the ethnicities at Babble Tower.. God said (to the Son I presume) "see they are all one" (working together) "and soon nothing will be impossible to them, let us go down therefor and confuse their languages so they will leave off from this building of the tower"... it's my belief that was a way of saying.. everything would progress too fast, self destruction by mankind would occur way before any thing had been proven..
Father and Son could step in, and could have stepped in, at any time and miraculously turned all around.. but perhaps there is something they want to prove beyond a doubt to all hearts and minds for all ages..
And also, I believe He could see all 'souls' which would be born and live, and had it all been stopped sooner (than it would by its natural conclusion).. say even a hundred years ago, where would you and I be? ..And He loves you and I! :smile: (imperfect tho we now still be). His patience is totally mind blowing..!
Quote from: Tom on October 02, 2014, 04:02:59 AM
I'm sorry if I caused any confusion Marie.
No problem Tom! It's totally not too hard to do! :laughing7: :laughing7: The Lord bless! :smile:
Quote from: Tom on October 02, 2014, 12:08:09 AM
I think folks resurrected back then all died again. There's a difference between being resurrected and vivified or immortalized. Only Christ has been immortalized so far (1 Timothy 6:16). Believers are next when Christ meets us in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17), and unbelievers will be vivified at the consummation of the eons when death is abolished (1 Corinthians 15:26).
I agree Tom. :thumbsup:
Altho I dont neccessarily disagree with your post, it is pretty clear to me 1 Tim 6:16 is speaking of the Father. Jesus has been seen, after His glorification. It is YHWH who "alone is immortal and dwells in unapproachable light". Jesus died, He is the first fruits from the dead. He is not qualified(imo) for the description who is alone is immortal", Jesus died and was raised from the dead, resurrected by the Spirit of holiness, the same Spirit that will "quicken our mortal bodies".
I would like to see a little contextual and linguistic evidence for the distinction between "resurrected" and "vivified". I am not sure that distinction is sustainable across the New Testament usage of anastasis (resurrection).
Quote from: eaglesway on October 02, 2014, 05:39:06 AM
Altho I dont neccessarily disagree with your post, it is pretty clear to me 1 Tim 6:16 is speaking of the Father. Jesus has been seen, after His glorification. It is YHWH who "alone is immortal and dwells in unapproachable light". Jesus died, He is the first fruits from the dead. He is not qualified(imo) for the description who is alone is immortal", Jesus died and was raised from the dead, resurrected by the Spirit of holiness, the same Spirit that will "quicken our mortal bodies".
I would like to see a little contextual and linguistic evidence for the distinction between "resurrected" and "vivified". I am not sure that distinction is sustainable across the New Testament usage of anastasis (resurrection).
:thumbsup: , That is how I feel JOHN , they are physically dead , no more dust of the earth in Adam Gen 2 in this manner God has kept the promise of keeping the law of the knowledge of good and evil
Jesus says make the tree good and its fruit good or make the tree corrupt as its fruits , we know by the fruits bearing
Jesus come to reveal the Heat of the Father , that life was beyond the curse and that tree we are all born in
IN CHRIST you will Live , the Head is all of those first fruits [or Those appointed and anointed in the SPIRIT AND TRUTH ]TREE OF LIFE
As the Body of Christ assembles or is being built even now in the worldly chaos by GODS SPIRIT , not by anything but My Spirit says the Lord Zech 4^6
Then he replied to me, "This is this message from the LORD to Zerubbabel: 'Not by valor nor by strength, but only by my Spirit,' says the LORD of the Heavenly Armies.
Knowing there is no glorying except in the Lord God and what HE HAS DONE and is doing .
If we could be overcoming evil with good , We know its the goodness of God doing this , Jesus even said why do you call me good? . there is no one good but God ...
ALL SOURCE of life IS GOD
So we dont get in to the idol worship of one another or think to highly of one or the other ,
or thinking holy men are holy because of obedience!!! Obedience has its reward and that is MORE OF JESUS whom is in God SPIRIT AND TRUTH to be made whole /perfect .
The biggest mistake I can see is the movement of those thinking , its God awaking up in them and begin to self worship and call it God :(
That is all over the place
and a very sad " set up " trick of satan , the adversary, a sense of pride in mankind and its delusional thinking
and does not only fool themselves but other poor gullible lives to run after them
man worshiping man and calling it God :sigh:
The very best anyone can do and what I believe is , Have faith God will do as He promises and wait on the Lord ,
Yes ,so many places tell us to have patience and wait for them prayers answered a true worshiper of God is in the SPIRIT AND TRUTH only
and you only see its results and the quickening , it is like a wave of powerful knowing and warmth of being ALIVE IN CHRIST , along with this amazing humble and so so thankful gratefulness of love coursing though your being of connection to Him !
I say GLORY TO GOD IN THE HIGHEST!!! :HeartThrob:
Many can hardly wait to receive the fullness of the end Because the Lord of hosts is doing a marvelous perfect work in a very evil rampant world
Quote from: marie glen on October 02, 2014, 04:14:13 AM
Quote from: rosered on October 01, 2014, 04:25:37 PM
He could have appeared to all men at that time perhaps , but than faith would not be faith and being born of faith is a BIG PART of Being born again and to be made a new creature in Christ .
[/b]
I think faith (trust) is part of the lesson..
It's my belief our heavenly Father is still creating mankind.. not done creating yet.. And that He could see all possibilities stretched out before Him before He did one act of creation, and that He then chose every way He has done things and chosen, in order to bring about the very best of all possibilities..
Why did He wait so long and only create the universe and man and woman not only after the first (bound to occur) rebel thought occurred but after it had matured into outright rebellion, trickery and sedition??
- i think so we all.. angel and man, would take this unavoidable journey/lesson, together all at once and for all eternity of the eternities.. Unavoidable that is, if there's to be thinking ability / rational creatures..
For with thinking ability, sooner or later comes the ability to make choices (albeit very limited). But I think God is both life and perfection, so to choose anything other than what He does in any teeny way is to become imperfect, the opposite of life, and thus all things fade.. (except He, who iS perfect).
But what was His other option? No rational creatures? ...ever?
At the confusing of the languages and scattering of the ethnicities at Babble Tower.. God said (to the Son I presume) "see they are all one" (working together) "and soon nothing will be impossible to them, let us go down therefor and confuse their languages so they will leave off from this building of the tower"... it's my belief that was a way of saying.. everything would progress too fast, self destruction by mankind would occur way before any thing had been proven..
Father and Son could step in, and could have stepped in, at any time and miraculously turned all around.. but perhaps there is something they want to prove beyond a doubt to all hearts and minds for all ages..
And also, I believe He could see all 'souls' which would be born and live, and had it all been stopped sooner (than it would by its natural conclusion).. say even a hundred years ago, where would you and I be? ..And He loves you and I! :smile: (imperfect tho we now still be). His patience is totally mind blowing..!
Faith , hope and Love being the greatest POWER of connection , known to mankind by the SPIRIT OF TRUTH !!
The eyes of the Seven Spirits of God are searching in the earth our bodies right now looking for those 3 things !
I tell you,
he will grant justice to them quickly! But when the Son of Man returns,
how many will he find on the earth who have faith?"
Faith is the confidence that what
we hope for will actually happen;
it gives us assurance about things we cannot see. the Christ in you the HOPE of Glory , Glory to God the Father the same honor Jesus knew though obedience , that perfect connection of a Father and Son-ship relationship that has no error or sin/ guilt in it !!
and LOVE adoring affection that only increases the bond /unity of perfection for ever and always
Love is the bond of perfection !! :HeartThrob:
Its the faith , hope and love of worship in the Spirit of Truth in the most simplest terms
Quote from: eaglesway on October 02, 2014, 05:39:06 AM
Altho I dont neccessarily disagree with your post, it is pretty clear to me 1 Tim 6:16 is speaking of the Father. Jesus has been seen, after His glorification. It is YHWH who "alone is immortal and dwells in unapproachable light". Jesus died, He is the first fruits from the dead. He is not qualified(imo) for the description who is alone is immortal", Jesus died and was raised from the dead, resurrected by the Spirit of holiness, the same Spirit that will "quicken our mortal bodies".
I would like to see a little contextual and linguistic evidence for the distinction between "resurrected" and "vivified". I am not sure that distinction is sustainable across the New Testament usage of anastasis (resurrection).
I don't have much time to reply because I have to go take care of some business today, but, since scripture says Christ is the only one immortalized so far when he was resurrected, it seems to me there is a difference because all the other folks who were resurrected died again. Dead believers will be resurrected and vivified when Christ meets all believers in the air, and dead unbelievers will be resurrected for judgment at the great white throne, die again the second death, and then be resurrected and vivified when death is abolished, right? I'm sorry for the quick reply with no scripture references, but I've got to run. I'll be back in touch later today.
PS: I think 1 Timothy 6:16 refers to Christ because it seems like only mortals can be immortalized. The light blinded Saul which is why Christ couldn't be seen. I'll be back this evening. God bless you, brother.
Quote from: Tom on October 02, 2014, 04:45:09 PM
and dead unbelievers will be resurrected for judgment at the great white throne, die again the second death, and then be resurrected and vivified when death is abolished, right?
I hate to be a buttinskee, but this sounds so cold.... some of those folks have never, ever heard of Jesus.. no matter what the 2nd death/lake of fire is, it doesn't sound like a day at the park.. why if it's God's choice and choosing who is "elect" and who isn't, why should most of they suffer any more than we did on our way to repentance? {to all believers everywhere, imagine your self being resurrected from your grave when you were an unbeliever..}
For the hard core habitual haters of God.. okay.. fine.. hitler.. pol pot.. etc, etc.. jes sayin.. :hiya:
why isn't judgment day seen as an age..? what? resurrection? boom.. you're in the lake of fire.. it don't set right.. doesn't click.. jes don't jive.. imo, that is!
:Peace2:
As far as I know there are three kinds of death described in the Bible
1. Physical death
2. Metaphysical death (death in sin)
3. Metaphysical death (death to sin, death of death by the Spirit through faith)
Personally I believe that #2 leads to #3 as with the Prodigal Son. And when repentance comes, it signifies that the wall of Isaiah 30 has crashed to the ground along with the breach in the wall (sin) and in so doing all death will be destroyed at the moment of repentance. Death has a way of turning people against it when it destroys everything around it, and thus consumes itself to nothing.
Personally that's how I believe the death and the grave are thrown into the second death. When the wall of strength crashes to the ground, the breach goes down with it, repentance follows and thus all death is destroyed.
Quote from: Tom on October 02, 2014, 04:45:09 PM
Quote from: eaglesway on October 02, 2014, 05:39:06 AM
Altho I dont neccessarily disagree with your post, it is pretty clear to me 1 Tim 6:16 is speaking of the Father. Jesus has been seen, after His glorification. It is YHWH who "alone is immortal and dwells in unapproachable light". Jesus died, He is the first fruits from the dead. He is not qualified(imo) for the description who is alone is immortal", Jesus died and was raised from the dead, resurrected by the Spirit of holiness, the same Spirit that will "quicken our mortal bodies".
I would like to see a little contextual and linguistic evidence for the distinction between "resurrected" and "vivified". I am not sure that distinction is sustainable across the New Testament usage of anastasis (resurrection).
I don't have much time to reply because I have to go take care of some business today, but, since scripture says Christ is the only one immortalized so far when he was resurrected, it seems to me there is a difference because all the other folks who were resurrected died again. Dead believers will be resurrected and vivified when Christ meets all believers in the air, and dead unbelievers will be resurrected for judgment at the great white throne, die again the second death, and then be resurrected and vivified when death is abolished, right? I'm sorry for the quick reply with no scripture references, but I've got to run. I'll be back in touch later today.
PS: I think 1 Timothy 6:16 refers to Christ because it seems like only mortals can be immortalized. The light blinded Saul which is why Christ couldn't be seen. I'll be back this evening. God bless you, brother.
1 Timothy 6:16 refers to the Father :dsunny:
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 02, 2014, 07:34:06 PM
There is only One resurrection.
hi! do you have some verses? ..or? I'm interested to find how you have come to that conclusion :gsmile:
:Chinscratch: :Chinscratch: Revelation 20:5 New King James Version (NKJV)
"5 But the rest of the dead
did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."
--------------------------------------
"7 Now
when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison.." (from
8-12) "and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners... to gather them together to battle... And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet [imo, institutions of man active at Jesus' return] are. And
they will be tormented day and night..
...Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them."
12 And I saw
the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books."
---------------------------------------------
Revelation 20:6 "
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years."
:Peace2: God bless! :smile:
Quote from: marie glen on October 02, 2014, 08:17:43 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on October 02, 2014, 07:34:06 PM
There is only One resurrection.
hi! do you have some verses? ..or? I'm interested to find how you have come to that conclusion :gsmile:
:Chinscratch: :Chinscratch: Revelation 20:5 New King James Version (NKJV)
"5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."
--------------------------------------
"7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison.." (from 8-12) "and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners... to gather them together to battle... And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet [imo, institutions of man active at Jesus' return] are. And they will be tormented day and night..
...Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them." 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books."
---------------------------------------------
Revelation 20:6 "Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years."
:Peace2: God bless! :smile:
My mistake dont really know what I was thinking :sigh: :sigh:
Quote from: marie glen on October 02, 2014, 06:37:46 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 02, 2014, 04:45:09 PM
and dead unbelievers will be resurrected for judgment at the great white throne, die again the second death, and then be resurrected and vivified when death is abolished, right?
I hate to be a buttinskee, but this sounds so cold.... some of those folks have never, ever heard of Jesus.. no matter what the 2nd death/lake of fire is, it doesn't sound like a day at the park.. why if it's God's choice and choosing who is "elect" and who isn't, why should most of they suffer any more than we did on our way to repentance? {to all believers everywhere, imagine your self being resurrected from your grave when you were an unbeliever..}
For the hard core habitual haters of God.. okay.. fine.. hitler.. pol pot.. etc, etc.. jes sayin.. :hiya:
why isn't judgment day seen as an age..? what? resurrection? boom.. you're in the lake of fire.. it don't set right.. doesn't click.. jes don't jive.. imo, that is!
:Peace2:
I'm sorry Marie. I didn't mean to post something that "sounds so cold" as you say. I was just trying to be brief because I was in a hurry. I was just trying to make a point that I think resurrection and being vivified are two different things. I don't know if any other version of scripture uses the word "vivified," but the Concordant Version uses it to mean giving life beyond death (immortality) which is what I think only Christ has received so far (1 Timothy 6:16), what believers will receive when Christ meets us in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17), and all mankind will receive at the consummation of the eons (1 Corinthians 15:20-28). I understand what you're saying about "the second death-the lake of fire." I think God is merciful in his judgments, and the "great white throne" will be no exception. I can tell that you're a compassionate woman by your concern for the unbelievers who, according to God's will, were not chosen for eonian life. When I was kid in the Catholic Church, I couldn't understand why God wouldn't let infants who die into heaven. That was back when the Catholic Church still pushed the idea of Limbo. I really got an attitude when I was told that my mom would be going to hell because she was a Methodist. It's no wonder I got out of that church as soon as I could and tried every crazy thing I could seeking the truth because I knew that couldn't be it. I think a lot of folks have a distorted idea about "the lake of fire" by assuming it is pain inflicted as a punishment for unbelievers. I think the only torment will be when unbelievers see the Lord and realize how they let him down, and the degree of that will vary according to each one's sins. I think death will come quickly, and the dead will not be conscious to suffer any pain because the dead know nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5). I think the fire is just a purifying agent. Here's a link with some good information.
http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheProblemOfEvil/evil029.html
Quote from: marie glen on October 02, 2014, 06:37:46 PM
Quote from: Tom on October 02, 2014, 04:45:09 PM
and dead unbelievers will be resurrected for judgment at the great white throne, die again the second death, and then be resurrected and vivified when death is abolished, right?
I hate to be a buttinskee, but this sounds so cold.... some of those folks have never, ever heard of Jesus.. no matter what the 2nd death/lake of fire is, it doesn't sound like a day at the park.. why if it's God's choice and choosing who is "elect" and who isn't, why should most of they suffer any more than we did on our way to repentance? {to all believers everywhere, imagine your self being resurrected from your grave when you were an unbeliever..}
For the hard core habitual haters of God.. okay.. fine.. hitler.. pol pot.. etc, etc.. jes sayin.. :hiya:
why isn't judgment day seen as an age..? what? resurrection? boom.. you're in the lake of fire.. it don't set right.. doesn't click.. jes don't jive.. imo, that is!
:Peace2:
Day G2250
figuratively a period (always defined more or less clearly by the context): - age, + alway, (mid-) day (by day, [-ly]), + for ever, judgment, (day) time, while, years.
Personally, I believe, rather than knowing nothing, I believe the second death causes torment, testing, suffering loss and ultimately purification and repentance.
Here is where I will get a storm of disagreement, but since this a forum and I am only sharing my opinion- here goes :o)
I believe in the will of man and consequences that arise because of it. IMO those who "die in their sins" do so because they reject the light(whether you believe God causes them to do that or not is immaterial to what I am going to say).
The Lake of fire is for those whose names are not written in the book of life(WHATEVER YOU THINK THAT MEANS), for those who are to tread in the winepress of the wrath of God(Rev 14:10), for those unto whom Jesus says on the Day, "Depart from me.....into the fire prepared for the devil and his angels".
In this life, there is a level of flux concerning sin. A person may repent, unrepent, repent again and then re-repent- this is clear in the OT and the NT. Their status as regards the welness of soul that comes from fellowship with God "in the vine" can change.(parable of the lost sheep)
In my theory of it, those who die outside of this "salvation" will have a "harder way to go" than they would have had they relented to the conviction, the drawing, the knock upon the door in this life.
They, by their rejection of God during their time in the body, sealed themselves in their sinful state.
The reason it is better to cut off your hand, if it causing you to sin, now and enter the kingdom of heaven "maimed"(having suffered a loss- but for the sake of righteousness) is that the process of being separated from that iniquity that is "sealed in the tomb" in death is this- the lake of fire(rev 20), the winepress of the wrath of God(rev 14:10), aionian kolassis(correction) or aionian pur(fire)(mt 25:46)- as Jesus said, "Depart for me into the fire prepared for the adversary and His messengers"- imo it is a "harder way" to be brought to your knees than yielding to the Holy Spirit in this life.
This, at any rate, is the only way the warnings of Christ and all the apostles about the fire to come, the Day, etc- makes any sense to me. :2c:
:iagree:
I personally think it's an experience brought about by their own actions for the purpose of revealing that God's way is much better.
I distinctly remember in my mid 20's..being told this ' you can listen to me and learn the easier way,
or not listen and learn the hard way..BUT LEARN YOU WILL.
...it almost seemed like God was continuing the early discipline of my Mom......who,when it was time
and I was due a 'switching'.I was told..that if I ran from it..I would get it twice as bad.. spare the rod/discipline
type of thing.
the thing is..down here..we 'catch hell' in one way or another....suffer for doing 'good' or suffer double
for doing evil. the kingdom of darkness will make sure'no good deed will go unpunished' sso that
suffering for obedience may be worked out for us...and Father will make sure any 'works of the devil"
brought forth by us are dealt with.
we all[men] shall pass under the rod of the shepherd,like sheep......Ezekiel 20;37 Judgement and resoration
.....I will take note of you when you pass under my rod and will bring you into the bond of the covenant.
Quote from: Seth on October 03, 2014, 03:05:46 AM
:iagree:
I personally think it's an experience brought about by their own actions for the purpose of revealing that God's way is much better.
I too agree, its the fruits of our doings on how we are judged by mankind as well as the Lord , and anyone who does NOT believe this ,is still in the dark in my opinion ,
Know one could know the joy I felt when the Lord let understand this parable /teaching and take it to HEART!
Apply it in the most personal manner , so many more scriptures opened up for me as well , we can only speak from our personal experiences as beings , both natural and spiritual in natures ,
For me its the Adam whom eats of the tree of knowledge of good and evil , KNOWING both experiences and its fruits / results of those doings
Matt 12 33"Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit. 34"You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart.
I had no idea how a Near Death Experience on You Tube would effect me so profoundly I dont know if I am allowed to put this up or if you could take this with a grain of salt I just know I cried and cried
with relief in the end , I cried with His sincerity in Jesus Christ His savoir
All I know is God is just and fair and righteous in all His ways , everyone of them , if this is someones imaginations than the point was taken very strongly to make a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ from an atheist who did not believe in God nor confessed Him as Lord to being so humbled and has a testimony to the Glory of God though Jesus Christ I dont dweel on it , but it did make me think as to every idle word spoken shall also be accounted for ...
some kind of holding tank a personal prison spoken of in Peter and Jude without details , a place unseen, a lost land , that is better off forgotten that was revealed in details by this one I guess its up to us to try and understand the consequences of bad fruit of our doings
I know God in His mercy will end all suffering ONE DAY when God will be all in All , but until that time comes we wait on the Lord
If this is too terrible we can sure remove the link quickly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MPHGt9LmfA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MPHGt9LmfA)
Quote from: sheila on October 03, 2014, 03:18:00 PM
I distinctly remember in my mid 20's..being told this ' you can listen to me and learn the easier way,
or not listen and learn the hard way..BUT LEARN YOU WILL.
...it almost seemed like God was continuing the early discipline of my Mom......who,when it was time
and I was due a 'switching'.I was told..that if I ran from it..I would get it twice as bad.. spare the rod/discipline
type of thing.
the thing is..down here..we 'catch hell' in one way or another....suffer for doing 'good' or suffer double
for doing evil. the kingdom of darkness will make sure'no good deed will go unpunished' sso that
suffering for obedience may be worked out for us...and Father will make sure any 'works of the devil"
brought forth by us are dealt with.
we all[men] shall pass under the rod of the shepherd,like sheep......Ezekiel 20;37 Judgement and resoration
.....I will take note of you when you pass under my rod and will bring you into the bond of the covenant.
Wow !! I had no idea you would say this and it goes with what was placed on my heart to at least try to share with others
not knowing is easier than knowing some things
But our hope is in Jesus Christ and we do not loose heart , for His wrath is for a moment and His mercy endures always
Young's Literal Translation
Mourning Turned into Dancing
1A Psalm. — A song of the dedication of the house of David. I exalt Thee, O Jehovah, For Thou hast drawn me up, and hast not let mine enemies rejoice over me.
2Jehovah my God, I have cried to Thee, And Thou dost heal me.
3Jehovah, Thou hast brought up from Sheol my soul, Thou hast kept me alive, From going down [to] the pit.
4Sing praise to Jehovah, ye His saints, And give thanks at the remembrance of His holiness,
5For — a moment [is] in His anger, Life [is] in His good-will, At even remaineth weeping, and at morn singing.
6And I — I have said in mine ease, 'I am not moved — to the age.
7O Jehovah, in Thy good pleasure, Thou hast caused strength to remain for my mountain,' Thou hast hidden Thy face — I have been troubled.
8Unto Thee, O Jehovah, I call, And unto Jehovah I make supplication.
9'What gain [is] in my blood? In my going down unto corruption? Doth dust thank Thee? doth it declare Thy truth?
10Hear, O Jehovah, and favour me, O Jehovah, be a helper to me.'
11Thou hast turned my mourning to dancing for me, Thou hast loosed my sackcloth, And girdest me [with] joy.
12So that honour doth praise Thee, and is not silent, O Jehovah, my God, to the age I thank Thee!
:icon_flower:
Quotethe thing is..down here..we 'catch hell' in one way or another....suffer for doing 'good' or suffer double
for doing evil. the kingdom of darkness will make sure'no good deed will go unpunished' sso that
suffering for obedience may be worked out for us...and Father will make sure any 'works of the devil"
brought forth by us are dealt with.
we all[men] shall pass under the rod of the shepherd,like sheep......Ezekiel 20;37 Judgement and resoration
.....I will take note of you when you pass under my rod and will bring you into the bond of the covenant.
:iagree:
God is wise. He has everything at his disposal to to complete his works. :HeartThrob:
Quote from: rosered on October 03, 2014, 03:19:44 PM
Quote from: Seth on October 03, 2014, 03:05:46 AM
:iagree:
I personally think it's an experience brought about by their own actions for the purpose of revealing that God's way is much better.
I too agree, its the fruits of our doings on how we are judged by mankind as well as the Lord , and anyone who does NOT believe this ,is still in the dark in my opinion ,
Know one could know the joy I felt when the Lord let understand this parable /teaching and take it to HEART!
Apply it in the most personal manner , so many more scriptures opened up for me as well , we can only speak from our personal experiences as beings , both natural and spiritual in natures ,
For me its the Adam whom eats of the tree of knowledge of good and evil , KNOWING both experiences and its fruits / results of those doings
Matt 12 33"Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for the tree is known by its fruit. 34"You brood of vipers, how can you, being evil, speak what is good? For the mouth speaks out of that which fills the heart.
I had no idea how a Near Death Experience on You Tube would effect me so profoundly I dont know if I am allowed to put this up or if you could take this with a grain of salt I just know I cried and cried
with relief in the end , I cried with His sincerity in Jesus Christ His savoir
All I know is God is just and fair and righteous in all His ways , everyone of them , if this is someones imaginations than the point was taken very strongly to make a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ from an atheist who did not believe in God nor confessed Him as Lord to being so humbled and has a testimony to the Glory of God though Jesus Christ I dont dweel on it , but it did make me think as to every idle word spoken shall also be accounted for ...
some kind of holding tank a personal prison spoken of in Peter and Jude without details , a place unseen, a lost land , that is better off forgotten that was revealed in details by this one I guess its up to us to try and understand the consequences of bad fruit of our doings
I know God in His mercy will end all suffering ONE DAY when God will be all in All , but until that time comes we wait on the Lord
If this is too terrible we can sure remove the link quickly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MPHGt9LmfA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MPHGt9LmfA)
That video kind of reminded me of an experience I had. I left my body and was up above looking down at myself in a hospital bed until I started rushing through a spooky dark tunnel and then suddenly came into the brightest light I'd ever seen, brighter than the sun, but it didn't hurt my eyes. In the light, there was no spoken language, but I just intuitively experienced total peace and unconditional love. When I found myself back in my body in the hospital bed, I felt compelled to look in the drawer of the bedside stand, and there was nothing in it but a Gideon Bible. I wasn't familiar with scripture because I was raised Catholic, but I picked up that book and started to read it. I became overwhelmed with emotion at the realization that God really was speaking to me through the words in that book. I don't share this story very often because I don't want folks to think they need to have an out of body experience to believe that scripture is the word of God, but folks who have had this kind of experience all seem to come back with the same kind of realization that the spiritual realm is for real and God really is light and love. It seems we also all think we're given these experiences to share God's love with others. We shouldn't be thought of as special for having received these revelations because we are just channels through whom the holy spirit of God flows to those we're with. If God spoke through a donkey, we shouldn't be proud. I know much has been said about how some folks think these experiences are just hallucinations caused by brain chemistry. I experienced hallucinations before I had the experience I'm talking about here, and, just like everybody else who has had them, I thought the experience was not like a dream or a hallucination but more like ultimate reality. It really seemed more real than reality, but that's hard to communicate to someone who hasn't had the same kind of experience. I also believe I was guided by holy spirit to look in that drawer and pick up that Gideon Bible to read just as I also believe years later holy spirit mysteriously bounced me from a die hard King James website to a universal reconciliation site which began to clear up all the confusion I had up to that time due to distorted religious thinking. I have come to think a person's prior belief system does have some effect on how we perceive profound spiritual experiences, but I think we are given them to share with others as a sign that there is more to life than we see in the material world. Modern physics has revealed that the material world on which the atheists base their faith is really somewhat of an illusion that is controlled by an invisible force that seems to be a super intelligent mind when perceived on the quantum level. That's what we believers call God. Atheists mistakenly believe it is the laws of physics themselves that are the source of all because they don't realize there has to be a law maker responsible for the laws. The reason I think these types of spiritual experiences are perceived through our preconceived concepts is I now believe so called "hell" is simply the unseen state of dead souls not a torture chamber of whatever one may perceive. That's why I don't get shook up when I see videos like this about folks experiencing so called "hell." Mystical experiences are more common than most people realize, and they are perceived differently in different cultures. I used to be into Zen and then Tao. I left those philosophies behind because I came to the realization that, even though they seemed to reveal some truth about the universe, they're shortsighted because they don't reveal the source of all which transcends the universe and has a personal relationship with us through his son, Jesus Christ, who is not one of the so called ascended masters of new age philosophy but the word of God become flesh who died for the sins of the whole world and was resurrected and the first to be immortalized. I think the ecstasy achieved through meditation that is not focused on the word of God is shortsighted because you don't really understand the whole truth. You achieve ecstasy by orgasm, but you don't necessarily intellectually connect that to God even though you might be shouting "Oh God!" while you're experiencing it. Atheists don't realize we believers experience God on an intellectual level as well as spiritual because our faith is based on rational evidence that we interpret with our reason. For example, it's obvious God is the author of the DNA code that is present in all living things because the only source known to produce code is an intelligent mind not a random undirected process like evolution. Atheists who admit this say it must have been space aliens, but, if that's the case, where did their DNA come from? That doesn't explain how life began. Someone had to program the first living thing with DNA code. Human intelligence produces symbols for letters and numbers and even computer code but nothing as complex as the DNA code. Where does intelligence come from? I think it's irrational to believe it "evolved" from a rock. Atheistic scientists don't know what caused life to begin, and they don't know what consciousness is. Spirit is the power of life, action, and intelligence. God is spirit. Atheists just assume believers have blind faith, but I say it's the atheists who have blind faith in the material world because they don't perceive the power operating it. I think that's only because God has blinded them to it temporarily, but they will eventually also see the light. I think this is for the same reason that we experience evil even though we have seen the light. I think God is manifesting his power of love overcoming evil for the whole universe to see. I think we believers all have experiences in our lives that are signs that we interpret to mean that God is real and operating in our lives. I think the guy in this video experienced this version of "hell" because most of us were taught that our "immortal" souls will be tortured there for our sins unless we do what the church says, but I don't believe that anymore. I now think so called "hell" is really just the unseen state of dead souls where they are oblivious to anything because scripture says souls die and the dead know nothing. I think the death state is God's way of compressing perception of time because the last moment a person experiences consciousness while alive will probably seem like it is immediately followed by the moment that dead person becomes alive again in the presence of the Lord. From what I've seen, most folks who have so called "near death experiences" say they experience what could be described as heaven rather than "hell," but I think even these are perceived through our prism of past religious training and worldview. I think every person has a unique experience of the manifestation of the activity of spirit that we call life. I think we are a display of the power of God for the universe to see. It could be called the ultimate drama, but the older I get the more it seems like a comedy. After the Catholic Church told me my mom was going to hell for being a Methodist, and I left the church to seek the truth, my experience showed me that God is love, and the word of God is truth. That's what I share with those who listen. Don't let your religion cause you to lose faith in God because God loves you and will eventually even cause unbelievers, some who may be your loved ones, to realize that too when all are immortalized, reconciled with God through Christ, and God is all in all.
QuoteI thought the experience was not like a dream or a hallucination but more like ultimate reality. It really seemed more real than reality, but that's hard to communicate to someone who hasn't had the same kind of experience. I also believe I was guided by holy spirit to look in that drawer and pick up that Gideon Bible to read just as I also believe years later holy spirit mysteriously bounced me from a die hard King James website to a universal reconciliation site which began to clear up all the confusion I had up to that time due to distorted religious thinking. I have come to think a person's prior belief system does have some effect on how we perceive profound spiritual experiences, but I think we are given them to share with others as a sign that there is more to life than we see in the material world. Modern physics has revealed that the material world on which the atheists base their faith is really somewhat of an illusion that is controlled by an invisible force that seems to be a super intelligent mind when perceived on the quantum level. That's what we believers call God. Atheists mistakenly believe it is the laws of physics themselves that are the source of all because they don't realize there has to be a law maker responsible for the laws. The reason I think these types of spiritual experiences are perceived through our preconceived concepts is I now believe so called "hell" is simply the unseen state of dead souls not a torture chamber of whatever one may perceive. That's why I don't get shook up when I see videos like this about folks experiencing so called "hell."
Thanks so much Bro Tom for sharing whats in your heart !! , I thought it was beautiful and your honest .
God looks on the heart :HeartThrob:
I do believe when God deals with some one in those ways they are changed and many doubts removed
I too believe some of the hellish experiences are preconceived notions and to do with religious upbringings and a warped sense of who God the Father really is :sigh:
But this man Bryan Melvin , really got to me , His absolute sincere confession was a blessing , I felt he was not fake in the least
I sure cannot say that about some of those stories on You Tube .
I agree with you in the sense of God who is love shall overcome all evil with good !!
God bless you my friend :HeartThrob:
I understand why he got to you. It's hard to describe one's mystical experience without some emotion because it affects you deeply, and those you tell about it who are sensitive to the spirit can't help being affected by it also. God bless you too Rose.