the Age-Lasting Lake of Fire

[marie glen]

I'm working on a study on verses to support that the Lake of Fire is not "for ever and ever" but is "age-during"

For clarity, I believe the Lake of Fire age follows the age/day of Judgment which I believe will be a great day of review & atonement. A pounding home of the lesson if you will. I figure it makes sense if our Lord's 1st advent was prophesied by and fulfilled by the ancient spring Holy Days, then His long 2nd advent are prophesied by the Autumn ones of Trumpets, Day of Atonement and Tabernacles (when the Father Himself will Tabernacle with man upon an earth He made new) and that they have not yet been fulfilled.. although of course, He is our atonement..

I know "forever" is not in Strong's, etc.. but is "ever" with for thrown in, and is more accurately "age-lasting". But I am on the look out for verses.. If they come to mind.. thanks!
              :smile:

[Lazarus Short]

Keep in mind, Marie, that the concept of "forever" is a modern construct, somewhat alien to the thinking of the ancients - kind of like the concepts of "zero" and "infinity," which did not exist in ancient times, at least not explicitly.

I'm probably going to take a beating over that...

[Searching_For_The_Truth]

Keep in mind, Marie, that the concept of "forever" is a modern construct, somewhat alien to the thinking of the ancients - kind of like the concepts of "zero" and "infinity," which did not exist in ancient times, at least not explicitly.

I'm probably going to take a beating over that...

I also heard that back then eternity didn't necessarily mean "never ending" but rather "age lasting". I don't think you are off base on that

[eaglesway]

the whole aionios/aion/age-during issue must be looked at in the light of the Hebrew word "olam" from which "aion" is translated- imo.

[micah7:9]

YES.

[Tom]

I'm working on a study on verses to support that the Lake of Fire is not "for ever and ever" but is "age-during"

For clarity, I believe the Lake of Fire age follows the age/day of Judgment which I believe will be a great day of review & atonement. A pounding home of the lesson if you will. I figure it makes sense if our Lord's 1st advent was prophesied by and fulfilled by the ancient spring Holy Days, then His long 2nd advent are prophesied by the Autumn ones of Trumpets, Day of Atonement and Tabernacles (when the Father Himself will Tabernacle with man upon an earth He made new) and that they have not yet been fulfilled.. although of course, He is our atonement..

I know "forever" is not in Strong's, etc.. but is "ever" with for thrown in, and is more accurately "age-lasting". But I am on the look out for verses.. If they come to mind.. thanks!
              :smile:

Let me first say that I think everybody has their own interpretation of scripture, and the following is simply mine. I claim no authority. I only believe in the authority of the word of God.

The phrase "tormented day and night for ever and ever" is an inaccurate translation that specifically refers only to the Adversary, the wild beast, and the false prophet.

"And the Adversary who is deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and sulphur, where the wild beast and where the false prophet are also. And they shall be tormented day and night for the eons of the eons." (Revelation 20:10)

The Adversary, the wild beast, and the false prophet will be tormented because they are supernatural beings not subject to death. Unbelievers will stand before the "great white throne" and be cast into "the second death-the lake of fire," but they will not be "tormented day and night for the eons of the eons" because they will be dead. Death is not another form of life. It seems unnecessary to say, but the dead are not conscious.

"The living know that they shall die, But the dead know nothing whatsoever." (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

Scripture says the soul dies.

"The soul that is sinning--it does die." (Ezekiel 18:4)
"The soul that does sin--it does die." (Ezekiel 18:20)

In light of those scriptures, I think it's clear that, when 1 Peter 4:6 says "an evangel is brought to the dead," they were alive when that happened.

Immortality of the soul is the philosophy of Plato, adopted as church doctrine, that originally came from the serpent's lie in the garden of Eden.

"And saying is the serpent to the woman, 'Not to die shall you be dying.'" (Genesis 3:4) 

Christ alone has immortality.

"He is King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian! Amen!" (1 Timothy 6:15,16)

Unbelievers cast into the lake of fire will be dead and not experience "eonian life" in Christ, but they will be made alive at the consummation of the eons when death is abolished.

"For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified. Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence; thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power. For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy is being abolished: death." (1 Corinthians 15:22-26)

http://www.saviourofall.org/charts/ChartOfJudgments.html

This doesn't refer to the lake of fire, but it seems necessary to say due to some confusion between the great white "throne," "thronon," and the "dais," "bematos."

Believers will not stand before the great white throne to be condemned to the second death-the lake of fire because we will have eonian life in Christ. Believers will "be manifested in front of the dais of Christ, that each should be requited for that which he puts into practice through the body, whether good or bad." (2 Corinthians 5:10)

"According to the grace of God which is being granted to me, as a wise foreman I lay a foundation, yet another is building on it. Yet let each one beware how he is building on it. For other foundation can no one lay beside that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone is building on this foundation gold and silver, precious stones, wood, grass, straw, each one's work will become apparent, for the day will make it evident, for it is being revealed by fire. And the fire, it will be testing each one's work--what kind it is. If anyone's work will be remaining which he builds on it, he will get wages. If anyone's work shall be burned up, he will forfeit it, yet he shall be saved, yet thus, as through fire." (1 Corinthians 3:10-15)

Only the believer's "work shall be burned up" if it's not good doctrine being taught. So we all should be careful to make sure our teaching is based on the foundation that Paul established and not some distorted evangel such as church doctrine.

I repeat that this is my interpretation of scripture. Yours may differ. I apologize, Marie, if it seems like I strayed off topic, but I thought the information was relevant because there seems to be much confusion about the lake of fire.

[Searching_For_The_Truth]

I'm working on a study on verses to support that the Lake of Fire is not "for ever and ever" but is "age-during"

For clarity, I believe the Lake of Fire age follows the age/day of Judgment which I believe will be a great day of review & atonement. A pounding home of the lesson if you will. I figure it makes sense if our Lord's 1st advent was prophesied by and fulfilled by the ancient spring Holy Days, then His long 2nd advent are prophesied by the Autumn ones of Trumpets, Day of Atonement and Tabernacles (when the Father Himself will Tabernacle with man upon an earth He made new) and that they have not yet been fulfilled.. although of course, He is our atonement..

I know "forever" is not in Strong's, etc.. but is "ever" with for thrown in, and is more accurately "age-lasting". But I am on the look out for verses.. If they come to mind.. thanks!
              :smile:

Let me first say that I think everybody has their own interpretation of scripture, and the following is simply mine. I claim no authority. I only believe in the authority of the word of God.

The phrase "tormented day and night for ever and ever" is an inaccurate translation that specifically refers only to the Adversary, the wild beast, and the false prophet.

"And the Adversary who is deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and sulphur, where the wild beast and where the false prophet are also. And they shall be tormented day and night for the eons of the eons." (Revelation 20:10)

The Adversary, the wild beast, and the false prophet will be tormented because they are supernatural beings not subject to death. Unbelievers will stand before the "great white throne" and be cast into "the second death-the lake of fire," but they will not be "tormented day and night for the eons of the eons" because they will be dead. Death is not another form of life. It seems unnecessary to say, but the dead are not conscious.

"The living know that they shall die, But the dead know nothing whatsoever." (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

Scripture says the soul dies.

"The soul that is sinning--it does die." (Ezekiel 18:4)
"The soul that does sin--it does die." (Ezekiel 18:20)

In light of those scriptures, I think it's clear that, when 1 Peter 4:6 says "an evangel is brought to the dead," they were alive when that happened.

Immortality of the soul is the philosophy of Plato, adopted as church doctrine, that originally came from the serpent's lie in the garden of Eden.

"And saying is the serpent to the woman, 'Not to die shall you be dying.'" (Genesis 3:4) 

Christ alone has immortality.

"He is King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian! Amen!" (1 Timothy 6:15,16)

Unbelievers cast into the lake of fire will be dead and not experience "eonian life" in Christ, but they will be made alive at the consummation of the eons when death is abolished.

"For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified. Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence; thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power. For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy is being abolished: death." (1 Corinthians 15:22-26)

http://www.saviourofall.org/charts/ChartOfJudgments.html

This doesn't refer to the lake of fire, but it seems necessary to say due some confusion between the great white "throne," "thronon," and the "dais," "bematos."

Believers will not stand before the great white throne to be condemned to the second death-the lake of fire because we will have eonian life in Christ. Believers will "be manifested in front of the dais of Christ, that each should be requited for that which he puts into practice through the body, whether good or bad." (2 Corinthians 5:10)

"According to the grace of God which is being granted to me, as a wise foreman I lay a foundation, yet another is building on it. Yet let each one beware how he is building on it. For other foundation can no one lay beside that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone is building on this foundation gold and silver, precious stones, wood, grass, straw, each one's work will become apparent, for the day will make it evident, for it is being revealed by fire. And the fire, it will be testing each one's work--what kind it is. If anyone's work will be remaining which he builds on it, he will get wages. If anyone's work shall be burned up, he will forfeit it, yet he shall be saved, yet thus, as through fire." (1 Corinthians 3:10-15)

Only the believer's "work shall be burned up" if it's not good doctrine being taught. So we all should be careful to make sure our teaching is based on the foundation that Paul established and not some distorted evangel such as church doctrine.

I repeat that this is my interpretation of scripture. Yours may differ. I apologize, Marie, if it seems like I strayed off topic, but I thought the information was relevant because there seems to be much confusion about the lake of fire.

The False Prophet and the Anti Christ have a human form. Right now the False Prophet is very likely Pope Francis and the Anti Christ will make his appearance soon. However, the real question is whether they are spirit beings in human form or humans from the very start. How do we know we are not spirit beings either?

[Tom]

I'm working on a study on verses to support that the Lake of Fire is not "for ever and ever" but is "age-during"

For clarity, I believe the Lake of Fire age follows the age/day of Judgment which I believe will be a great day of review & atonement. A pounding home of the lesson if you will. I figure it makes sense if our Lord's 1st advent was prophesied by and fulfilled by the ancient spring Holy Days, then His long 2nd advent are prophesied by the Autumn ones of Trumpets, Day of Atonement and Tabernacles (when the Father Himself will Tabernacle with man upon an earth He made new) and that they have not yet been fulfilled.. although of course, He is our atonement..

I know "forever" is not in Strong's, etc.. but is "ever" with for thrown in, and is more accurately "age-lasting". But I am on the look out for verses.. If they come to mind.. thanks!
              :smile:

Let me first say that I think everybody has their own interpretation of scripture, and the following is simply mine. I claim no authority. I only believe in the authority of the word of God.

The phrase "tormented day and night for ever and ever" is an inaccurate translation that specifically refers only to the Adversary, the wild beast, and the false prophet.

"And the Adversary who is deceiving them was cast into the lake of fire and sulphur, where the wild beast and where the false prophet are also. And they shall be tormented day and night for the eons of the eons." (Revelation 20:10)

The Adversary, the wild beast, and the false prophet will be tormented because they are supernatural beings not subject to death. Unbelievers will stand before the "great white throne" and be cast into "the second death-the lake of fire," but they will not be "tormented day and night for the eons of the eons" because they will be dead. Death is not another form of life. It seems unnecessary to say, but the dead are not conscious.

"The living know that they shall die, But the dead know nothing whatsoever." (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

Scripture says the soul dies.

"The soul that is sinning--it does die." (Ezekiel 18:4)
"The soul that does sin--it does die." (Ezekiel 18:20)

In light of those scriptures, I think it's clear that, when 1 Peter 4:6 says "an evangel is brought to the dead," they were alive when that happened.

Immortality of the soul is the philosophy of Plato, adopted as church doctrine, that originally came from the serpent's lie in the garden of Eden.

"And saying is the serpent to the woman, 'Not to die shall you be dying.'" (Genesis 3:4) 

Christ alone has immortality.

"He is King of kings and Lord of lords, Who alone has immortality, making His home in light inaccessible, Whom not one of mankind perceived nor can be perceiving, to Whom be honor and might eonian! Amen!" (1 Timothy 6:15,16)

Unbelievers cast into the lake of fire will be dead and not experience "eonian life" in Christ, but they will be made alive at the consummation of the eons when death is abolished.

"For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified. Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence; thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power. For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy is being abolished: death." (1 Corinthians 15:22-26)

http://www.saviourofall.org/charts/ChartOfJudgments.html

This doesn't refer to the lake of fire, but it seems necessary to say due some confusion between the great white "throne," "thronon," and the "dais," "bematos."

Believers will not stand before the great white throne to be condemned to the second death-the lake of fire because we will have eonian life in Christ. Believers will "be manifested in front of the dais of Christ, that each should be requited for that which he puts into practice through the body, whether good or bad." (2 Corinthians 5:10)

"According to the grace of God which is being granted to me, as a wise foreman I lay a foundation, yet another is building on it. Yet let each one beware how he is building on it. For other foundation can no one lay beside that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone is building on this foundation gold and silver, precious stones, wood, grass, straw, each one's work will become apparent, for the day will make it evident, for it is being revealed by fire. And the fire, it will be testing each one's work--what kind it is. If anyone's work will be remaining which he builds on it, he will get wages. If anyone's work shall be burned up, he will forfeit it, yet he shall be saved, yet thus, as through fire." (1 Corinthians 3:10-15)

Only the believer's "work shall be burned up" if it's not good doctrine being taught. So we all should be careful to make sure our teaching is based on the foundation that Paul established and not some distorted evangel such as church doctrine.

I repeat that this is my interpretation of scripture. Yours may differ. I apologize, Marie, if it seems like I strayed off topic, but I thought the information was relevant because there seems to be much confusion about the lake of fire.

The False Prophet and the Anti Christ have a human form. Right now the False Prophet is very likely Pope Francis and the Anti Christ will make his appearance soon. However, the real question is whether they are spirit beings in human form or humans from the very start. How do we know we are not spirit beings either?

"Spirit beings" seem to be able to appear in various forms. Satan is said to be the "ancient serpent" (Revelation 12:9) and "transfigured into a messenger of light" (2 Corinthians 11:14). I assume the "false prophet" and "wild beast" are "spirit beings" because they don't die in "the lake of fire" like the mortals will. Scripture says we're "living souls" (Genesis 2:7), not "spirit beings," and souls die (Ezekiel 18:4,20). We humans seem to be the only ones subject to death. I was raised in the Roman Catholic Church, but I left it in my teens because I knew something wasn't right even though I wasn't familiar with scripture yet. I'm aware that there are folks who think the pope is the "false prophet" or the "anti-christ." I think the Protestant Church didn't purge all the false doctrine during the Reformation. So, when I say I don't believe church doctrine, I'm talking about both Catholic and Protestant. I think they're both just the same remnant of the religious arm of the Roman Empire established to control people with fear of their immortal souls being tortured in fire forever. Scripture says souls die. So souls are not immortal. Only "the Adversary, the wild beast, and the false prophet" will be tormented "for the eons of the eons" because they must not be subject to death (Revelation 20:10). I'm aware that scripture says those who worship the "wild beast and its image" will be "tormented," and "the fumes of their torment are ascending for the eons of the eons" (Revelation 14:11). But I think the living souls who are not in Christ will be tormented only until they die because scripture says souls die. "The lake of fire" is "the second death" (Revelation 20:14). I realize there is much difference in interpretation of scripture especially when it comes to Revelation, but I think "the second death" is just like the first death meaning no consciousness to be able to experience torment (Ecclesiastes 9:5). Death is not the final state of mankind though because all will be vivified at the consummation of the eons.

"For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified. Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence; thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power. For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy is being abolished: death." (1 Corinthians 15:22-26)

This is all just my own personal interpretation of scripture. You may not agree. I say don't take my word or anybody else's word for it. Read an accurate translation of scripture, and let the power of the holy spirit of God reveal the truth to you. What else I will say is that I don't dwell on Revelation because I have an expectation of being saved from the coming indignation and knowing that even unbelievers will eventually be saved from death at the consummation of the eons when God will be all in all (1 Corinthians 15:20-28).

[lastpost]

I may not agree with some of the beliefs of this Francis, but I see many fruits of peace and love which I have yet to see in many his critics; and I should be overcome with joy if the spirit of this man should visit me when I give service in an Abiding Place in God's Household.

I should welcome Francis as a brother with open arms, as I am sure he would do me - when all-important dogmas created by the mind of man that separated brother from brother, over which battles were fought so vehemently, are swept over the borders of purity and dissipate into nothingness in the Light of the Love of Christ.

I am truly grateful to the Master for His guiding truths - they truly set one free.

So simple, He calls down the ages: "Take up thy cross and follow Me!" Amen.

[lostnbroken]

what does this mean if all are restored in the new heaven and earth:

"In Revelation 22, AFTER the restoration of all things - the defeat of the last enemy, death, which is cast into the lake of fire, and after satan, the beast and the false prophet are thrown in also, and after He makes all things new (21:5), we see these words - "he who is unrighteous let him be unrighteous still, and he who is filthy let him be filthy still, and he who is righteous let him be declared righteous still, and he who is sanctified, let him be sanctified still". And further, there is 22:15 "and without are the dogs and the sorcerers, and the whoremongers, murderers, idolaters, and everyone who is loving and doing a lie". So it appears to me there are still plenty of souls whose fate is sealed as lost here, never to be allowed into the eternal Tabernacle of God."

if all will be restored then why are they still outside even here? are there any other scriptures, apart from what is derived in paul's epistles, showing people coming out of lake of fire to be healed and then be with god? 

[Tom]

what does this mean if all are restored in the new heaven and earth:

"In Revelation 22, AFTER the restoration of all things - the defeat of the last enemy, death, which is cast into the lake of fire, and after satan, the beast and the false prophet are thrown in also, and after He makes all things new (21:5), we see these words - "he who is unrighteous let him be unrighteous still, and he who is filthy let him be filthy still, and he who is righteous let him be declared righteous still, and he who is sanctified, let him be sanctified still". And further, there is 22:15 "and without are the dogs and the sorcerers, and the whoremongers, murderers, idolaters, and everyone who is loving and doing a lie". So it appears to me there are still plenty of souls whose fate is sealed as lost here, never to be allowed into the eternal Tabernacle of God."

if all will be restored then why are they still outside even here? are there any other scriptures, apart from what is derived in paul's epistles, showing people coming out of lake of fire to be healed and then be with god?

You say, "So it appears to me there are still plenty of souls whose fate is sealed as lost here, never to be allowed into the eternal Tabernacle of God."

I think you're making a false assumption there, sis.

Just because Revelation was stuck at the end of the Bible doesn't mean it's the end of the story. The end is actually described in 1 Corinthians 15:28.

The lake of fire is the second death, and, when death is abolished, the dead in the lake of fire will be vivified meaning all mankind will be saved from death.

"We rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believers." (1 Timothy 4:10)

"I became a dispenser, in accord with the administration of God, which is granted to me for you, to complete the word of God." (Colossians 1:25)

"through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens" (Colossians 1:20)

"Yet now Christ has been roused from among the dead, the Firstfruit of those who are reposing. For since, in fact, through a man came death, through a Man, also, comes the resurrection of the dead. For even as, in Adam, all are dying, thus also, in Christ, shall all be vivified. Yet each in his own class: the Firstfruit, Christ; thereupon those who are Christ's in His presence; thereafter the consummation, whenever He may be giving up the kingdom to His God and Father, whenever He should be nullifying all sovereignty and all authority and power. For He must be reigning until He should be placing all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy is being abolished: death. For He subjects all under His feet. Now whenever He may be saying that all is subject, it is evident that it is outside of Him Who subjects all to Him. Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all." (1 Corinthians 15:20-28)

http://www.saviourofall.org/charts/ChartOfJudgments.html

[Seth]

You say, "So it appears to me there are still plenty of souls whose fate is sealed as lost here, never to be allowed into the eternal Tabernacle of God."

I think you're making a false assumption there, sis.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
i was quoting somebody else there.... wanting to believe  for everything and everyone....

Revelation 20-22 shows the establishment of the perfected kingdom on earth which has been given reign over everything. A most telling aspect of the description of New Jerusalem is that while the lake of fire is outside, the gates are described as being continually open. The prophecies in the OT tended to end the same way, describing a judgement on Israel and the subsequent establishment of New Jerusalem through Christ. Revelation is following form.

The fruit of that establishment, as Tom said is prophesied in 1 Cor 15, and many other places. In fact late in Chapter 22 you see the Spirit and the Bride (New Jerusalem) preaching the free gospel of life to all those outside. It's pretty useful, therefore, that the gates are open.

[Tom]

You say, "So it appears to me there are still plenty of souls whose fate is sealed as lost here, never to be allowed into the eternal Tabernacle of God."

I think you're making a false assumption there, sis.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
i was quoting somebody else there.... wanting to believe  for everything and everyone....

Sorry about that. Hush my mouth.

[Seth]

Another way to say "eis aion aion" would be "through the age of the age." To me, that's not eternal. The fact that there are leaves for the healing of the nations is pretty telling. Why would people already healed and have inherited the city need healing? You need healing when you are sick, not well.

[lostnbroken]

this gives hope  :HeartThrob:

[Tom]

so whoever is in the lof then can come out and be healed with the leaves?

et says that hebrews and unforgivable sins prove no one can ever come out of lof....

so still also trying to understand why "ages of ages" is not the equivalent of eternity...i see how aion/eon equals age but when phrased as "ages and ages" or "to ages" how does this mean limited....ages can go on forever? really wanting to understand this in my heart...

why do some us think lof is literal[either lava or dead sea] and others insists it is spiritual? i am sorry for so many questions but need to know.... at least everyone does agree god intends it to be for cleansing instead of mere vengeance which never ends...

The Greek "aion," literally "eon," is a finite period of time, and the Greek "aionion," literally "eonian," is its adjective which can not describe eternity because that is is infinite time. Therefore the word "eternal" is an inaccurate translation of "aionion." The "ages" or "eons" do not go on forever as you say because scripture speaks of the consummation which is described in 1 Corinthians 15:20-28, and the consummations of the eons are described in 1 Corinthians 10:11. As you say some folks have a more figurative interpretation of Revelation and indeed the whole Bible. That's a matter of personal perspective. I think scripture like all literature should be basically interpreted literally except when it becomes necessary to interpret it figuratively, but I don't mess with folks who have a more figurative interpretation because I figure that's between them and God. I guess we'll all find out what's up some day when we're in the presence of the Lord.   

[Tom]

PS: The "ages of the ages" or "eons of the eons" are the last two eons as shown in the image accessed by this link.

http://www.saviourofall.org/charts/ChartOfJudgments.html

[WhiteWings]

Hi lnb,

I already told you, nobody on this forum will agree. And I'll you tell your what I already told you in PM. This time a few more verses because it's only 1:32am instead of 4:00am now
:snor:

what does this mean if all are restored in the new heaven and earth:

"In Revelation 22, AFTER the restoration of all things - the defeat of the last enemy, death, which is cast into the lake of fire, and after satan, the beast and the false prophet are thrown in also, and after He makes all things new (21:5), we see these words - "he who is unrighteous let him be unrighteous still, and he who is filthy let him be filthy still, and he who is righteous let him be declared righteous still, and he who is sanctified, let him be sanctified still". And further, there is 22:15 "and without are the dogs and the sorcerers, and the whoremongers, murderers, idolaters, and everyone who is loving and doing a lie". So it appears to me there are still plenty of souls whose fate is sealed as lost here, never to be allowed into the eternal Tabernacle of God."

if all will be restored then why are they still outside even here? are there any other scriptures, apart from what is derived in paul's epistles, showing people coming out of lake of fire to be healed and then be with god?

Continue reading.....

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come! And the one hearing let him say, Come! And the one thirsting, let him come; and the one desiring, let him take of the water of life freely.

That verse is about the people outside the city because those inside tasted the Water long ago.



Rev 22:2 In the midst of its street and of the city, on this side and that side of the river, was a tree of life producing twelve fruits: according to one month each yielding its fruit. And the leaves of the tree were for healing of the nations.

That verse is written before the one you quoted but they happen at the same time. Many people see Rev 21:1 (or earlier) as sealing the fate of everyone. God on earth enemy defeat and cast in hell etc.
But the verses I quoted, show people from outside are entering New Jerusalem and are invited to enter New Jerusalem.

Many also assume outside the city is just another word for hell. If so why are the city gates open? New Yerusalem inhabitants are going for a picknick at the shores of a vast sulfer pit?
Nobody fears the people from hell will enter the city?
Nobody fears that because open gates means no danger. It means peace. That's how things were back then. I case of danger the city gates were closed. It doesn't take a big brain to figure out that the billions of people in hell are constantly trying to get out of hell and inside the city.
Well they would if the whole hell concept wasn't a satanic lie....



1 Cor. 15:22-28 as compared with the new heaven and new earth of Revelation 20-22:     


     In 1 Cor. 15:22-28, we have:
     No more rule
     No more authority
     No more power
     No more enemies
     No more reigning
     All subjected
     No more death, death destroyed.
     All made alive, immortal

     In Revelation 20-22, we have:
     Still rule (20:6; 22:5)
     Son still reigns (22:1-5; 11:5)
     Authority (21:24,25)
     Power (21:24,25; 22:2
     Kings (21:24-26)
     Saints reign (22:5)
     Second death still exists (21:5)
     The nations still mortal (22:2)

[WhiteWings]

this gives hope  :HeartThrob:

The Bible isn't about hope because hope is about possibilities.
The Bible is about facts.
One of those facts is that the Good Shepherd will seek, find and return that lost sheep to the flock.

[Tom]

this gives hope  :HeartThrob:

The Bible isn't about hope because hope is about possibilities.
The Bible is about facts.
One of those facts is that the Good Shepherd will seek, find and return that lost sheep to the flock.

I agree. That's why I prefer the Concordant Version translation "expectation" rather than "hope."

[joeteekay]

The Apostle Peter preached about  hope:

1Pe_1:3  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe_1:13  Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
1Pe_1:21  Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
1Pe_3:15  But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
1Jn_3:3  And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

[lostnbroken]

thank you...he hates sins and loves everyone and wants to heal all one day....this means all our lost unsaved ancestors can be made whole and new again...  :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

thank you...he hates sins and loves everyone and wants to heal all one day....this means all our lost unsaved ancestors can be made whole and new again...  :HeartThrob:

Not only can they, but they will.  :HeartThrob:

[joeteekay]

Expectation and hope are the same or close to the same:


G1680 ἐλπίς - Strong's Greek Lexicon Number

Strong's #G1679

LSJ Gloss:
ἐλπίς
hope, expectation
Strong's:
ἐλπίς
expectation (abstractly or concretely) or confidence
Derivation: from a primary ἔλπω (to anticipate, usually with pleasure);
KJV Usage: faith, hope.


Thayer:

1) expectation of evil, fear
2) expectation of good, hope
2a) in the Christian sense
2a1) joyful and confident expectation of eternal salvation
3) on hope, in hope, having hope
3a) the author of hope, or he who is its foundation
3b) the thing hoped for

[Tom]

so whoever is in the lof then can come out and be healed with the leaves?

et says that hebrews and unforgivable sins prove no one can ever come out of lof....

so still also trying to understand why "ages of ages" is not the equivalent of eternity...i see how aion/eon equals age but when phrased as "ages and ages" or "to ages" how does this mean limited....ages can go on forever? really wanting to understand this in my heart...

why do some us think lof is literal[either lava or dead sea] and others insists it is spiritual? i am sorry for so many questions but need to know.... at least everyone does agree god intends it to be for cleansing instead of mere vengeance which never ends...

The words "forever" and "forever and ever" are inaccurate translations also. The Greek words "aion" and "aionion" have been translated several different ways in popular versions of scripture to give the impression of "eternal" time, but scripture is concerned with "eonian" time from the creation to the consummation. We're not told what happens after the consummation, but we can trust God that he will be "all in all." That gives us an "expectation" of immortality blessed to the max with God's love.