Can a believer go to the Lake of Fire?

[gregoryfl]

1 John 1:5
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Exactly my point brother. There is nothing outside of him.

[Seth]

Matthew 25:30
And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

[gregoryfl]

Matthew 25:30
And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Yes, and this experience of outer darkness is not outside of the God whom heaven and the heaven of heaven cannot contain. Even the darkness which is fallen man's experience, is seen by the all seeing God, for even that darkness is light to him.

[Seth]

There is no darkness in God whatsoever. Those who are In outer darkness do not have the water of life. They are in death. That's why the Spirit and the Bride preach to them.

New Jerusalam is not just God, but God dwelling among his people. Outside are murderers liars etc. Those things produce death. New Jerusalem provides the water of life.

[dajomaco]

But the Day of the Lord will come like a thief;[a] on that day the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, the elements will burn and be dissolved, and the earth and the works on it will be disclosed. 11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, it is clear what sort of people you should be in holy conduct and godliness 12 as you wait for and earnestly desire the coming[c] of the day of God. The heavens will be on fire and be dissolved because of it, and the elements will melt with the heat. 13 But based on His promise, we wait for the new heavens and a new earth, where righteousness will dwell.


We work daily in the elements with the elements.
If all the elements melt and are dissolved how can we prove our work.

Are churches made of elements?

[micah7:9]

It is just AWESOME that The Father will in the End.... WILL have all His children, the obedient and the disobedient, saved [sōzō]  - heal[ed], preserve[ed], save[d], be (make) whole. Such LOVE... amid all the ugly that is going on in just my generation. Is just AWESOME LOVE! :2c:

He Is RISEN! :dsunny:

[rosered]

Matthew 25:30
And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Yes, and this experience of outer darkness is not outside of the God whom heaven and the heaven of heaven cannot contain. Even the darkness which is fallen man's experience, is seen by the all seeing God, for even that darkness is light to him.

Psalms 139 11If I say, "Surely the darkness will overwhelm me, And the light around me will be night," 12Even the darkness is not dark to You, And the night is as bright as the day. Darkness and light are alike to You. 13For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother's womb

[Seth]

Dajomaco. What did John see after he saw a new heaven and new earth?  :Chinscratch:

[Seth]

Matthew 25:30
And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Yes, and this experience of outer darkness is not outside of the God whom heaven and the heaven of heaven cannot contain. Even the darkness which is fallen man's experience, is seen by the all seeing God, for even that darkness is light to him.

Psalms 139 11If I say, "Surely the darkness will overwhelm me, And the light around me will be night," 12Even the darkness is not dark to You, And the night is as bright as the day. Darkness and light are alike to You. 13For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother's womb

And yet there is no darkness within him. Not making that up.

Isaiah 50
10 Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
11 Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of YOUR fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

Walk in the darkness with regard to MAN'S light. There is no such darkness in God as that which is lightness to a man according to the fire that man kindles.

[gregoryfl]

And all of those, both being IN the city, and being OUTSIDE the city, is not speaking about those who are in God and those who are out of God, as though God is confined to the space we call the New Jerusalem, for he is depicted in type and shadow as the ENTIRE promised land, not just Jerusalem. The darkness people experience is the experience of those in God, in whom they live and move and have their being, yet do so in the darkness of those who's eyes are closed to the reality. This is not a literal darkness in God, for none exists in him.

This is why Yeshua commissioned Paul to 'open the eyes of the Gentiles, turning them from DARKNESS', a darkness caused by closed eyes, a perception, not a true reality.

[Seth]

Part of the promised land is GEHENNA.

God's people reside within the Gates of Jerusalem. Outside is a fire. Jerusalem is the bride of Christ. The "sinners of Zion" cannot reside there. They are in outer darkness AS COMPARED to the light which the tree of life provides.

[Seth]

The idea that everyone is already in God, which I will leave for another discussion, does not address whether or not the fire of the LOF is linked to Isaiah 9 or not. Sin produces DEATH no matter what. The water of life is internal to the bride not external. At least not the way John describes it.

[gregoryfl]

Part of the promised land is GEHENNA.

God's people reside within the Gates of Jerusalem. Outside is a fire. Jerusalem is the bride of Christ. The "sinners of Zion" cannot reside there. They are in outer darkness AS COMPARED to the light which the tree of life provides.

Yes, Gehenna is also an expression of God, depicted as such for his own purpose. According to the pictures presented in the types and shadows, I agree, and the early believers also, that they cannot reside in the New Jerusalem while in that state. This is a depicted picture helping us to understand though, and not literal places and locations, some of which are in God, some of which are not. These are all speaking about experiences, all in God, as I have come to understand it. I am fine and know perfectly well that you see things differently brother, but I am simply sharing what I am to relate to Rose and anyone else who sees it similarly to myself.

[rosered]

Matthew 25:30
And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Yes, and this experience of outer darkness is not outside of the God whom heaven and the heaven of heaven cannot contain. Even the darkness which is fallen man's experience, is seen by the all seeing God, for even that darkness is light to him.

Psalms 139 11If I say, "Surely the darkness will overwhelm me, And the light around me will be night," 12Even the darkness is not dark to You, And the night is as bright as the day. Darkness and light are alike to You. 13For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother's womb

And yet there is no darkness within him. Not making that up.

Isaiah 50
10 Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.
11 Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of YOUR fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow.

Walk in the darkness with regard to MAN'S light. There is no such darkness in God as that which is lightness to a man according to the fire that man kindles.

   Hi Seth   ,  you I do understand if that light be darkness how great is the darkness , the Light of the eye that must remain single  or that light is deceiving  the believer 

 
But I believe   a few of us  are talking   that nothing is impossible for God and is all in all     
  and yet you are giving us the  sequence in which   God will be all in all     
  and both    ways are   right , but  have just skipped though the process ?    :friendstu:

  the Lake of Fire has very little  said about it  , Just as Micah    gave those verses   in TWO   places 1 Cor 3 and Rev 20   
it has to do with death and we know    hell/ Gehenna  and death are cast into the lake of fire  ?

     and   you  have  said its Gehenna      outside the gates  of Jerusalem

  yes but   are you are calling the lake of fire,  Gehenna,  a specific  place  ?

I may internalize a lot    , ingesting  the scriptures
  For this i apologize  to you   
I am listening to the best of my ability     :HeartThrob:


   

[gregoryfl]

As an understanding of what I mean, I could put it this way.

All of that which is in the promised land is bound up in my experience of God and his Son, the tangible reality of that land.

If I experience a hatred for God and act wickedly in a love of darkness, then my experience of God here as well as in the future could be likened to Gehinnom, or the marshes and swamps in the Dead Sea region.

If I experience periods of wondering where God is, and being in need of hearing from him, then my experience of God could be likened to the Arabah wilderness.

If I experience times of closeness with God, peace and communion, what some would call 'mountaintop experiences', then my experience of God could be likened to Jerusalem.

If I experience refreshment and tranquility with God, then my experience of God could be likened to the waters coming from Mount Herman.

If I experience times of overflowing abundance, then my experience of God could be likened to the overflowing Jordan river during the rainy season.

If I experience times of apprehending and understanding more of our Savior and Master Yeshua through meditation and study, I can liken that to the iron and copper in the hills waiting to be found.

This is the sum of what I see as being in the New Jerusalem, being in outer darkness, being in Gehenna, the lake of fire, the holy mountain, or any of the other myriads of pictures Father has painted for us. These are the experiences of the same God, expressed in the many varied ways.

[micah7:9]

Psa 18:11  He maketh darkness His secret place, Round about Him His tabernacle, Darkness of waters, thick clouds of the skies.

Psa 91:1  He that dwelleth in the secret place of the Most High Shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
Psa 91:2  I will say of Jehovah, He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in whom I trust.
Psa 91:3  For he will deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, And from the deadly pestilence.

Just a thought :Peace2:

[micah7:9]

And all of those, both being IN the city, and being OUTSIDE the city, is not speaking about those who are in God and those who are out of God, as though God is confined to the space we call the New Jerusalem, for he is depicted in type and shadow as the ENTIRE promised land, not just Jerusalem. The darkness people experience is the experience of those in God, in whom they live and move and have their being, yet do so in the darkness of those who's eyes are closed to the reality. This is not a literal darkness in God, for none exists in him.

This is why Yeshua commissioned Paul to 'open the eyes of the Gentiles, turning them from DARKNESS', a darkness caused by closed eyes, a perception, not a true reality.

:dsunny:

[micah7:9]

As an understanding of what I mean, I could put it this way.

All of that which is in the promised land is bound up in my experience of God and his Son, the tangible reality of that land.

If I experience a hatred for God and act wickedly in a love of darkness, then my experience of God here as well as in the future could be likened to Gehinnom, or the marshes and swamps in the Dead Sea region.

If I experience periods of wondering where God is, and being in need of hearing from him, then my experience of God could be likened to the Arabah wilderness.

If I experience times of closeness with God, peace and communion, what some would call 'mountaintop experiences', then my experience of God could be likened to Jerusalem.

If I experience refreshment and tranquility with God, then my experience of God could be likened to the waters coming from Mount Herman.

If I experience times of overflowing abundance, then my experience of God could be likened to the overflowing Jordan river during the rainy season.

If I experience times of apprehending and understanding more of our Savior and Master Yeshua through meditation and study, I can liken that to the iron and copper in the hills waiting to be found.

This is the sum of what I see as being in the New Jerusalem, being in outer darkness, being in Gehenna, the lake of fire, the holy mountain, or any of the other myriads of pictures Father has painted for us. These are the experiences of the same God, expressed in the many varied ways.

:thumbsup:

[sheila]

 and now..ALL THINGS ARE YOURS [1 Cor 3;22] whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world

  or life or death or the present or the future-ALL ARE YOURS,and you are of Christ and Christ

  is of God.

[gregoryfl]

Psa 18:11  He maketh darkness His secret place, Round about Him His tabernacle, Darkness of waters, thick clouds of the skies.

Psa 91:1  He that dwelleth in the secret place of the Most High Shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
Psa 91:2  I will say of Jehovah, He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in whom I trust.
Psa 91:3  For he will deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, And from the deadly pestilence.

Just a thought :Peace2:

:thumbsup:

[gregoryfl]

There is no darkness in God whatsoever. Those who are In outer darkness do not have the water of life. They are in death. That's why the Spirit and the Bride preach to them.

New Jerusalam is not just God, but God dwelling among his people. Outside are murderers liars etc. Those things produce death. New Jerusalem provides the water of life.

:iagree:

[Seth]

Psa 18:11  He maketh darkness His secret place, Round about Him His tabernacle, Darkness of waters, thick clouds of the skies.

Psa 91:1  He that dwelleth in the secret place of the Most High Shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
Psa 91:2  I will say of Jehovah, He is my refuge and my fortress; My God, in whom I trust.
Psa 91:3  For he will deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, And from the deadly pestilence.

Just a thought :Peace2:

Darkness as compared to light of man. But when Apostle John says that "he is the light, and no darkness is in him" I think he is talking about a different kind of darkness.

[rosered]

Part of the promised land is GEHENNA.

God's people reside within the Gates of Jerusalem. Outside is a fire. Jerusalem is the bride of Christ. The "sinners of Zion" cannot reside there. They are in outer darkness AS COMPARED to the light which the tree of life provides.

Yes, Gehenna is also an expression of God, depicted as such for his own purpose. According to the pictures presented in the types and shadows, I agree, and the early believers also, that they cannot reside in the New Jerusalem while in that state. This is a depicted picture helping us to understand though, and not literal places and locations, some of which are in God, some of which are not. These are all speaking about experiences, all in God, as I have come to understand it. I am fine and know perfectly well that you see things differently brother, but I am simply sharing what I am to relate to Rose and anyone else who sees it similarly to myself.

  Thank you     , much appreciated    ,   That is as I see it the HOLY SPIRIT   is not bound to anything   either
    But there is a process and some may experience     little in this life and    some may experience much  ,     many are called but few are chosen , and  this is for another discussion     ,  elect  called   
  are the elect special and  other poor suffering     folks are not? , this is hard for me to understand   really  :sigh:

    yet salvation will come to them   by Jesus Christ  in the end  ,but  Peter mentions making your election sure    2Peter 1
 

[Seth]

Why is it hard to see the elect as special? I ask that as someone who does not claim to be the elect. But I think clearly that God has set aside unto himself a peculiar people, a holy nation, a royal priesthood.

Didn't Jacob have a dream about the grain bowing down and was admonished by his own father?

[rosered]

As an understanding of what I mean, I could put it this way.

All of that which is in the promised land is bound up in my experience of God and his Son, the tangible reality of that land.

If I experience a hatred for God and act wickedly in a love of darkness, then my experience of God here as well as in the future could be likened to Gehinnom, or the marshes and swamps in the Dead Sea region.

If I experience periods of wondering where God is, and being in need of hearing from him, then my experience of God could be likened to the Arabah wilderness.

If I experience times of closeness with God, peace and communion, what some would call 'mountaintop experiences', then my experience of God could be likened to Jerusalem.

If I experience refreshment and tranquility with God, then my experience of God could be likened to the waters coming from Mount Herman.

If I experience times of overflowing abundance, then my experience of God could be likened to the overflowing Jordan river during the rainy season.

If I experience times of apprehending and understanding more of our Savior and Master Yeshua through meditation and study, I can liken that to the iron and copper in the hills waiting to be found.

This is the sum of what I see as being in the New Jerusalem, being in outer darkness, being in Gehenna, the lake of fire, the holy mountain, or any of the other myriads of pictures Father has painted for us. These are the experiences of the same God, expressed in the many varied ways.

  :thumbsup:     Yes all things !!!

nd now..ALL THINGS ARE YOURS [1 Cor 3;22] whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world

  or life or death or the present or the future-ALL ARE YOURS,and you are of Christ and Christ

  is of God.

:thumbsup:  all them experiences      are apart  of the works of God though Christ changing us    all    :HeartThrob: