is jesus god

[cranny]

do universalists believe that jesus is god? if not why not?

[Lazarus Short]

Laz does.  Unitarian Universalists - maybe not.

[eaglesway]

Hi Cranny,

This site does not embrace Unitarian Universalism/all religions/versions of God lead to salvation/eternal life etc. Jesus Christ is Lord and the only name given under heaven through which a person may be saved. As far as Jesus being God and the general topic of the Godhead, there is a thread for that discussion where you could read the range of opinions held by different members of the site. I have to find it tho, will post it tomoro sometime. It is a "hot-button" issue that gets divisive, so it would be better for you peruse the thread than hav the discussion renewed here.    Thanks, John

[Jason76]

Jehovah's witnesses believe Jesus is not God, due to the fact Judaism is monotheistic.  But I don't really agree with that interpretation.

[eaglesway]

Sorry I forgot to post this.


http://tentmaker.org/forum/arguments-against-universal-salvation/re-here's-something-i-just-read/

There is a LOT of opinion and discussion and theory on the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost in this thread, if you have the patience to wade through it.

[WhiteWings]

do universalists believe that jesus is god? if not why not?

Define God.....
If you are meaning trinity, then my answer is that there is zero support for that in the Bible.

:2c:

[rosered]

do universalists believe that jesus is god? if not why not?

Define God.....
If you are meaning trinity, then my answer is that there is zero support for that in the Bible.

:2c:

OH the mystery,    and   still not understanding  clearly

I do not know  much at all   , but this ...........
  just as,   origin  has a  clear  and simple   , yet   perfect meaning  , so does Jesus Christ   as being the WORD OF GOD / that proceeds out of the mouth of GOD and origin  , to understand the description in words    and their '' ROOT '' meanings   , we can see from scriptures   Just how Jesus was created  and come out of God  , something hidden being revealed   to us and ,
THIS NAME   alone has power over sin/error  and its origin    the devil lies  and death by murder Murder is the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human, and generally this premeditated state of mind distinguishes murder from other forms of unlawful homicide (such as manslaughter).

As the loss of a human being may inflict grief upon the individuals close to the victim, and the commission of a murder is highly detrimental to the good order within society, most societies both present and in antiquity have considered it a most serious crime worthy of the harshest of punishment. In most countries, a person convicted of murder is typically given a long prison sentence, possibly a life sentence where permitted, and in some countries, the death penalty may be imposed for such an act – though this practice is becoming less common.[1]

now these are the terms used to describe  in plain English     , but we know in the old testament       it was   a death sentence if you killed  and the devil /satan
  was  going to  cause  suffering and death

But we know now by the new   Jesus Christ  has the power over death and   does  show us   death has no power over HIM  for He brings back to  LIFE  AGAIN from death ...






or·i·gin
ˈôrəjən/Submit
noun
1.
the point or place where something begins, arises, or is derived.
"a novel theory about the origin of oil"
synonyms:   beginning, start, commencement, origination, genesis, birth, dawning, dawn, emergence, creation, birthplace, cradle; source, basis, cause, root(s); formal radix
 
So is Jesus God ?   
  though origin   YES! 
Says He was Sent , but He did come out of God  , so its this a part or piece of God  manifested to SHOW   us God , If you have seen me   , you have seen the Father

You cannot see a Spirit with a natural eye , you can only see the results of a Spirit   ,  described like the Wind /breath   ,      you can see its  power when it blows across a field   the  blades of grass move   , as we move
  or water  when the wind blows it ripples    and has movement      to the outer most  edges
 
or in cities when the wind moves with force it  tears down  and moves with great force   what is standing   and scatters   its contents abroad

  We can see in the weather all the time   and in Job   we can tell  its the Lord and His Voice  moving  all things in   His power and glory   and some in Revelation

The Stir of the Spirit moves  things out of its place ...

[ed]

do universalists believe that jesus is god? if not why not?

Hey cranny.

Some universalists are trinitarian.
Some universalists are not trinitarian.

I've been in both camps and have seen Christ as Lord in both camps.

Those who hold to the trinity do so because they are convinced by scripture.  Those who hold to non-trinity do so because they are convinced by scripture.

The key is that doctrine does not lord over the follower of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is lord, and doctrine is not.

The reason that the debate goes on is the ever present carnal desire to make doctrine lord.

There are good studies in both directions and I am sure they are findable on the internet.

Those who hold that Jesus Christ is not God, hold that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, who was born into the world, suffered as man, was without sin, died for the sins of the world, is risen, and ever present at the right hand of God, and in the believer, through the Holy Spirit.  Sounds a lot like trinity but, distinctly not.

[micah7:9]

God is a deity, a title, not a name. At least that is how I understand it.

[rosered]

do universalists believe that jesus is god? if not why not?

Hey cranny.

Some universalists are trinitarian.
Some universalists are not trinitarian.

I've been in both camps and have seen Christ as Lord in both camps.

Those who hold to the trinity do so because they are convinced by scripture.  Those who hold to non-trinity do so because they are convinced by scripture.

The key is that doctrine does not lord over the follower of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is lord, and doctrine is not.

The reason that the debate goes on is the ever present carnal desire to make doctrine lord.

There are good studies in both directions and I am sure they are findable on the internet.

Those who hold that Jesus Christ is not God, hold that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, who was born into the world, suffered as man, was without sin, died for the sins of the world, is risen, and ever present at the right hand of God, and in the believer, though the Holy Spirit.  Sounds a lot like trinity but is distinctly not.

  well said Ed as usual  :thumbsup

  MARK :28One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, "What commandment is the foremost of all?" 29Jesus answered, "The foremost is, 'HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;


30AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.

Father  I are one   John 10    ...29"My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30"I and the Father are one." 31The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him.

I believe the HOLY SPIRIT     is the Father and SON and they are ONE GOD

and LORD / Master of ALL

[rosered]

God is a deity, a title, not a name. At least that is how I understand it.

  Yes Micah
   good thoughts !!

    A title and name Just as Jesus Christ ,a name  by which is no greater under heaven by which  we must be saved

   But   for me its  describing   in mere human terms    '' a force to be reckoned with ''  causing Change   

  A force is any influence which tends to change the motion of an object.

[1] In other words, a force can cause an object with mass to change its velocity (which includes to begin moving from a state of rest), i.e., to accelerate. Force can also be described by intuitive concepts such as a push or a pull. A force has both magnitude and direction, making it a vector quantity. It is measured in the SI unit of newtons and represented by the symbol F.

The original form of Newton's second law states that the net force acting upon an object is equal to the rate at which its momentum changes with time. If the mass of the object is constant, this law implies that the acceleration of an object is directly proportional to the net force acting on the object,

is in the direction of the net force, and is inversely proportional to the mass of the object. As a formula, this is expressed as:

\vec{F} = m \vec{a}
where the arrows imply a vector quantity possessing both magnitude and direction.

Related concepts to force include: thrust, which increases the velocity of an object; drag, which decreases the velocity of an object;

and torque which produces changes in rotational speed of an object.

In an extended body, each part usually applies forces on the adjacent parts; the distribution of such forces through the body is the so-called mechanical stress. Pressure is a simple type of stress. Stress usually causes deformation of solid materials, or flow in fluids.

[bushy]

do universalists believe that jesus is god? if not why not?

Jesus is the son of God, He is the son of man, He is one with the Father. We can get a tired brain trying to understand God since he is infinite. I assume we will eventually come to know Him better and better but never completely.

[rosered]

do universalists believe that jesus is god? if not why not?

Jesus is the son of God, He is the son of man, He is one with the Father. We can get a tired brain trying to understand God since he is infinite. I assume we will eventually come to know Him better and better but never completely.

  :thumbsup:  I do believe there is a heavenly language  and knowledge      that one day we can all   experience !!!
  but for now  faith seems to be   very precious to God    in   the    here and now     and no  human terms     comes close   to knowing fully the Glory of God

[Lazarus Short]

If you really want to be a Trinitarian, consider that Father + Son + Holy Spirit = three.  Further, since the Revelation says there are Seven Spirits, then Father + Son + Spirits = Nine.  A Trinity of Trinities.  I believe God to be multi-layered and multi-dimensional.

[eaglesway]

God is a deity, a title, not a name. At least that is how I understand it.

Imo when referring to YHWH, God is  more than a title.

Isaiah 65:16 Whoever invokes a blessing in the land will do so by the one true God; whoever takes an oath in the land will swear by the one true God. For the past troubles will be forgotten and hidden from my eyes.

John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

1 Thess. 1:9 They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, 10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

[micah7:9]

God is a deity, a title, not a name. At least that is how I understand it.

Imo when referring to YHWH, God is  more than a title.

Isaiah 65:16 Whoever invokes a blessing in the land will do so by the one true God; whoever takes an oath in the land will swear by the one true God. For the past troubles will be forgotten and hidden from my eyes.

John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

1 Thess. 1:9 They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, 10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

I don't see how that changes God from a title, God is deity. JEHOVAH God.
Deu 6:4  `Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah;
Baal was a god, Dagon was a god.
2Co 4:4  in whom the god of this age ....

[Graph1159]

For me a key passage is Colossians 1:15-16

"He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; for in him all things in heaven and on earth were created" (NRSV).

Notice that it says Jesus is THE image of the invisible God. God is invisible and beyond our comprehension, and there is nobody other than Jesus who fully represents God in a way that creation can see or relate to. This is why worshiping Jesus is not idolatry. The problem with idolatry is that it takes an element of creation which only partially represents God and treats it as if it is fully God (Romans 1:23).

The idea I see in Col. 1 is that Jesus is the complete representation of The Father. I don't make any claims beyond this, and I believe this is the only thing you have to accept about Christ's essence to be faithful to the Scriptures. Trinitarians go a step further and say that Jesus = God the Father = The Holy Spirit, but there are three persons. I don't know if that relationship is true or not, but I don't think it's necessary to know for sure.

[rosered]

For me a key passage is Colossians 1:15-16

"He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; for in him all things in heaven and on earth were created" (NRSV).

Notice that it says Jesus is THE image of the invisible God. God is invisible and beyond our comprehension, and there is nobody other than Jesus who fully represents God in a way that creation can see or relate to. This is why worshiping Jesus is not idolatry. The problem with idolatry is that it takes an element of creation which only partially represents God and treats it as if it is fully God (Romans 1:23).

The idea I see in Col. 1 is that Jesus is the complete representation of The Father. I don't make any claims beyond this, and I believe this is the only thing you have to accept about Christ's essence to be faithful to the Scriptures. Trinitarians go a step further and say that Jesus = God the Father = The Holy Spirit, but there are three persons. I don't know if that relationship is true or not, but I don't think it's necessary to know for sure.

   Thanks ,  great verses   and    good and clear   Graph  , well said . :thumbsup:

   

[micah7:9]

For me a key passage is Colossians 1:15-16

"He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; for in him all things in heaven and on earth were created" (NRSV).

Notice that it says Jesus is THE image of the invisible God. God is invisible and beyond our comprehension, and there is nobody other than Jesus who fully represents God in a way that creation can see or relate to. This is why worshiping Jesus is not idolatry. The problem with idolatry is that it takes an element of creation which only partially represents God and treats it as if it is fully God (Romans 1:23).

The idea I see in Col. 1 is that Jesus is the complete representation of The Father. I don't make any claims beyond this, and I believe this is the only thing you have to accept about Christ's essence to be faithful to the Scriptures. Trinitarians go a step further and say that Jesus = God the Father = The Holy Spirit, but there are three persons. I don't know if that relationship is true or not, but I don't think it's necessary to know for sure.

Don't want to get into this trinity thing again, but simply do a search and see how many times God or the Holy Spirit is called a "person." :dsunny:

[rosered]

For me a key passage is Colossians 1:15-16

"He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; for in him all things in heaven and on earth were created" (NRSV).

Notice that it says Jesus is THE image of the invisible God. God is invisible and beyond our comprehension, and there is nobody other than Jesus who fully represents God in a way that creation can see or relate to. This is why worshiping Jesus is not idolatry. The problem with idolatry is that it takes an element of creation which only partially represents God and treats it as if it is fully God (Romans 1:23).

The idea I see in Col. 1 is that Jesus is the complete representation of The Father. I don't make any claims beyond this, and I believe this is the only thing you have to accept about Christ's essence to be faithful to the Scriptures. Trinitarians go a step further and say that Jesus = God the Father = The Holy Spirit, but there are three persons. I don't know if that relationship is true or not, but I don't think it's necessary to know for sure.

Don't want to get into this trinity thing again, but simply do a search and see how many times God or the Holy Spirit is called a "person." :dsunny:

:thumbsup:

  I dont think it is  3 separate beings or persons   Micah
    long ago      a group of folks  went into many  scriptures       and found
  a very  wonderful  lot of scriptures  that cleared up alot of things

It was to do with      God was  always ONE    and  with Jesus and when Jesus was sent   here as   a  human  /    son of man , many try to discredit that     Jesus was even here as a human being    , but I believe He was

   and  during the time Jesus walked the earth   , the Holy Spirit   was not given , till Jesus returned to the Father   and the HOLY SPIRIT   was breathed on the disciples      when Jesus come back in Spirit form  to bring in the new covenant    /witness  and make it    a reality   
   Now the Father and Son   Jesus Christ the Word made flesh  , but now its not the same flesh   and Those gathered  into   God are the HOLY SPIRIT   /Spirit of TRUTH

  I wish I had saved all those verses   and the studies   
  I just quickly   put up the jest of it
It may not make sense  the way I explained it  :sigh:   I do struggle with wording things
  Now if one was wanting to   search for themselves they  may also come to the same conclusion   

[eaglesway]

Sorry I forgot to post this.


http://tentmaker.org/forum/arguments-against-universal-salvation/re-here's-something-i-just-read/

There is a LOT of opinion and discussion and theory on the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost in this thread, if you have the patience to wade through it.

The Trinity versus Whatever discussion was a banned topic for a long time. Eventually, there were a couple threads opened up where the discussion was allowed on the condition that it stayed congenial- which of course it didnt. This discussion HAS been congenial to this point- but still, I see no need for rehashing the Godhead discussion here. I posted the thread where I feel it was most completely hashed, and I would suggest if someone is curious they go to that thread and read it. I would also suggest that is anyone wants to discuss it further, they continue the discussion there, so that we dont go all redundant here. :o)

[micah7:9]

For you via EW  and for you to pursue if you wish.    http://tentmaker.org/forum/arguments-against-universal-salvation/re-here's-something-i-just-read/

[rosered]

wow , over a year ago Micah !!  :Chinscratch:  I remember that  , many , many pages ..