Christian Life and the Law with regard to Acts 15

[Seth]

Since we on the forum have had spirited discussion on the Law recently, I thought I would open a thread to discuss Acts 15, and something I noticed in the text. The context behind Acts 15 is that Jews were were teaching that Paul was against the Law of Moses, which if you read Romans 7 carefully is clearly untrue. Paul just understood the difference between following moral codes for a purified heart, and following the Spirit for a purified heart according to Grace.

Nevertheless, the Jews were offended. So, the church got together to discuss this difficult issue in Acts 15.

Acts 15
28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials: 29 that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell."

Ok, so I hear that this scripture is proof that Christians today cannot eat meat sacrificed to idols (notice it doesn't mention the description of the meat as being pork or shellfish, just make sure it's not sacrificed to idols) and blood (therefore no blood sausage you Brits! or things which are strangled (we gotta be Kosher). Not only that, Acts 15 is also used to assert that Christians are bound to other laws within Moses.

Apostle Paul is famously the one preached that meat sacrificed to idols is permissible. So, many people tend to assume that Paul allowed a compromise in his doctrine by being part of the Council of Jerusalem and seemingly not providing objection to what the church was handing down to the Gentiles. But Paul did not allow idol meat in all cases either, or at least he recommended against it in certain cases. Please observe:

1 Corinthians 8
7 However not all men have this knowledge (that idols are nothing and God is one); but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

So, when the possibility of doing HARM to another person is opened by exercising Gospel freedoms, Paul recommends self-regulated restrictions on for the sake of someone whose faith could be harmed when they don't understand that sacrificial meat is actually fine to eat.

In the case of Acts 15, the issue was not pagans, but Jews. They were offended. Since Paul taught to live peacefully with all men, what could the solution be? Force the freedoms into the surrounding cultures? Or, willingly and lovingly restrict ourselves for their sakes? I think it's the latter.

The Christians in Acts 15, particularly Peter, are crystal clear. Salvation from sin does not come by the Law of Moses, but by GRACE. Peter says,

Acts 15
8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; 9 and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

It's really easy to overlook and miss that scripture in among an analysis of Acts 15. You cannot apply greater purification on the heart by Law that Grace somehow doesn't cover. For those who teach that Peter preached Law to the saints in his epistles, this pretty much destroys that teaching because Peter taught the same grace that Paul taught. Paul taught in Titus 2:11 that Grace teaches us to abandon ungodliness. The Law could not achieve that end. Here, Peter is teaching that the cleansing of the heart by faith occurs because of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does the cleaning. Faith is how we access this Grace (Romans 5).

Notice, though, that when they arrive at their recommendations for the Gentile believers, what they say, but particularly what they label these Laws as being:

Acts 15
28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater BURDEN than these essentials: 29 that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell."

Do you ever wonder why they didn't select what Jesus called the two greatest commandments? Love eachother. Love God. That doesn't come up here. Why?

Notice how he doesn't say "lay upon you no greater life giving written ordinances than these essentials." No, he says "lay upon you no greater BURDEN." Why a burden? Well, they just got through explaining that the Law of Moses was a YOKE, a hard burden to bear. So why did they place these particular burdens on the Gentiles? Again, because the Jews were offended. Notice what Paul does with Timothy just one chapter later in Acts 16.

Acts 16
3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.

So it's really as simple as this: Timothy was circumcised because Jews. Not because it was a commandment from God to Timothy for Timothy's purification of heart, or righteousness by faith. That occurs by the Spirit. Timothy was circumcised because that's what Jews were looking for to keep him out. They wanted to preach the Gospel, and they didn't want circumcision to be a barrier to that. With that in mind here is the reason the church placed this kind of BURDEN upon the Gentiles:

Acts 15
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

It's the same reason Timothy was circumcised: because Jews. They were told to do these things "because Moses of old has been preached in EVERY (yes even Gentile) cities since the old times." The church is telling the Gentiles to live at peace with the Jews. Now, notice that "fornication" is included in these BURDENS. How can such a righteous commandment be called a burden? The same way that in Romans 7 the written ordinance "do not covet" can become a burden. When you look to Laws for righteousness, "do not covet" becomes a burden because the sin within you becomes too much to battle.

Grace is what will cause you be cleansed from within, by the Spirit. However, some Gentiles struggled with this, and the church is letting them know that Jews are hearing certain things that the Law does not permit, and if they Gentiles continue in these things, the Jews will be offended and it will place an undo burden upon the Gentile church. Fornication is not permitted but that is because the carnal mind is doomed when we walk according to the SPIRIT, not because we are under Law.

As I have said before, NO Christian is under written codes. We are all under the inspiration of the Spirit to walk in righteousness. You can have blood sausage when you are in Britain (if you go for that kind of thing), but pay mind to those who are with you and around you in the culture. Be smart about your freedoms, because while the Law of Moses can never purify your heart, just know that there are others around you who strongly believe in those Laws. That is what I believe Acts 15 is all about. Thank you for taking the time to read my thoughts about this.

[sheila]

TY for psting it Seth, I read these very scriptures while the 'debate' was going on.

  GOD,WHO KNOWS THE HEART,SHOWED THAT HE ACCEPTED THEM BY GIVING THE HOLY SPIRIT TO THEM

  JUST AS HE DID TO US.HE MADE NO DISTINCTION BETWEEN US AND THEM,FOR HE PURIFIED THEIR

  HEARTS BY FAITH.

    NOW THEN.......WHY DO YOU TRY TO TEST GOD...........BY PUTTING ON THE NECKS OF THE DISCIPLES

   A YOKE THAT NEITHER WE OR OUR FATHER'S HAVE BEEN ABLE TO BEAR.

[Seth]

 :thumbsup: :dsunny:

[lastpost]

Thank you Seth for taking the care and time to provide this thought-provoking article.

I see Jesus / Yeshua as demonstrating the acceptance of culture, in that He did not throw out the religious Law of the culture into which He was born, but He fulfilled it.

From Christ comes the liberty of the spirit, but with the responsibilities of the spirit.

Responsibility for a duty to others encased in flesh (e.g. feed My lambs...)
Responsibility for a duty to oneself (e.g. moderation in all things...)
Responsibility for a duty to God (e.g. love God...).

I believe that good manners are heavenly. A rude manner leads to disharmony and everywhere lurks that serpent looking for the smallest chance to start a war.

[Seth]

HI Lastpost,
I have actually been pondering the idea of "fulfilled" as opposed to "destroyed." When I looked up the term for "fulfilled" it has a connotation of being filled up (like a glass of water is full up). It also means "completed" or "finished."

So, Jesus completed or finished the Law inasmuch as a glass of water can be finished filling up a glass.

In my ETer days, we were taught about the indwelling of the Spirit, but the n with respect to the Law, it's treated as though Jesus is external from us. I see this in various forms of UR that I disagree with. That Jesus finished/completed the Law, therefore no obedience is required, sometimes not even faith is required (because Jesus died for the sin of unbelief, which he did).

The thing is, if we remember that Christ is within us, then the fulfiller of the Law is within us too. What is he doing within us, but still walking as a fulfillment of the LAW. That is why I believe that the Bible says "He who loves has fulfilled the Law." Meaning the completion of the Law is within us so that we may walk in love, not in disobedience.

In order to do this, Jesus put himself to death at the hand of his enemy, and was resurrected as a life giving Spirit. This way, to avoid destroying the Law, he may put us to death Spiritually so that we may be resurrected as born again under a New Covenant, which does not require righteousness according to the Letter, but walking in the Spirit. Thus, the Law is not destroyed, but the righteousness of the Law lives on within us.

[eaglesway]

IMO both destroyed and fulfilled apply. When you build an arch, supports hold the arch until the capstone is set in place. Once that happens, the arch is complete- or fulfilled. The supports are knocked down and destroyed.

Jesus is the capstone by which the two have been made into one. He who ascended on high so that He could fill all things, also holds all things together by the power of His word, the word of faith which we preach, that if you confess Jesus Chist has Lord and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved/made whole- delivered out of Adam and incorporated into the one new man.

[Seth]

So do you believe the Law.of Moses was destroyed? What about the prophets?

[eaglesway]

Yes, the law contained in ordinances was nailed to a tree. The shadows that pointed unto Christ vanished away at His advent. The prophets were all fulfilled, because they spoke of Him and spoke for Him in their generations.

[Seth]

Why do you believe that Jesus contrasts "destroy" against "fulfill" as though he means to draw a distinction? So if Jesus came to destroy, what do I do with his statement "I came not to destroy." Why wouldn't Jesus say, "I came to fulfill and therefore to destroy?" I am not saying I disagree that we are no longer under ordinances; obviously not. But I am saying that Jesus seems pretty clear that he came to NOT do something with regard to the Law. What would that be?

[eaglesway]

I think the word annul might be better. To transcend something, to supplant it with a higher law, makes it of no effect. Death will be destroyed by becoming of no effect by being "swallowed up" by immortality.

1 Cor 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

[eaglesway]

As I see it, the law has been destroyed/annulled in those who have received the higher law(grace) that transcends and fulfills it.

[Seth]

I actually see a difference between destroy and annul. I think the law is still around in written form and I think people are still place in themselves under it and I think that it's still accusing them of the sinfulness they have and I think that it's still leading people to Christ as a schoolmaster.even though I think it is an old for believers to gain righteousness from it I still think it has a purpose for today. As Paul said, do you the law can be used lawfully. we can still use it for instruction in righteousness as all Scripture can be.the law is still there for people to fall away from grace and have to learn lessons the hard way about how to be in righteousness.

maybe when Jesus came to say I came not to destroy the law he was addressing their expectations of the destruction of the law being that the law itself was the problem and not their inner selves.

[Seth]

in fact you can even see paul using the law in Romans 2 to convict Judaizers of hypocrisy.

[eaglesway]

he is speaking as one who becomes all things to all men, but don't you think Paul clearly teaches that the law has been made of no effect, anulled, nailed to a cross?

He speaks from the law to demonstrate the insufficiency of the law

This is how the principalities and powers were disarmed and the keys to hell and death taken(imo)

[eaglesway]

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

[micah7:9]

Since we on the forum have had spirited discussion on the Law recently, I thought I would open a thread to discuss Acts 15, and something I noticed in the text. The context behind Acts 15 is that Jews were were teaching that Paul was against the Law of Moses, which if you read Romans 7 carefully is clearly untrue. Paul just understood the difference between following moral codes for a purified heart, and following the Spirit for a purified heart according to Grace.

Nevertheless, the Jews were offended. So, the church got together to discuss this difficult issue in Acts 15.

Acts 15
28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials: 29 that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell."

Ok, so I hear that this scripture is proof that Christians today cannot eat meat sacrificed to idols (notice it doesn't mention the description of the meat as being pork or shellfish, just make sure it's not sacrificed to idols) and blood (therefore no blood sausage you Brits! or things which are strangled (we gotta be Kosher). Not only that, Acts 15 is also used to assert that Christians are bound to other laws within Moses.

Apostle Paul is famously the one preached that meat sacrificed to idols is permissible. So, many people tend to assume that Paul allowed a compromise in his doctrine by being part of the Council of Jerusalem and seemingly not providing objection to what the church was handing down to the Gentiles. But Paul did not allow idol meat in all cases either, or at least he recommended against it in certain cases. Please observe:

1 Corinthians 8
7 However not all men have this knowledge (that idols are nothing and God is one); but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

So, when the possibility of doing HARM to another person is opened by exercising Gospel freedoms, Paul recommends self-regulated restrictions on for the sake of someone whose faith could be harmed when they don't understand that sacrificial meat is actually fine to eat.

In the case of Acts 15, the issue was not pagans, but Jews. They were offended. Since Paul taught to live peacefully with all men, what could the solution be? Force the freedoms into the surrounding cultures? Or, willingly and lovingly restrict ourselves for their sakes? I think it's the latter.

The Christians in Acts 15, particularly Peter, are crystal clear. Salvation from sin does not come by the Law of Moses, but by GRACE. Peter says,

Acts 15
8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; 9 and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith. 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

It's really easy to overlook and miss that scripture in among an analysis of Acts 15. You cannot apply greater purification on the heart by Law that Grace somehow doesn't cover. For those who teach that Peter preached Law to the saints in his epistles, this pretty much destroys that teaching because Peter taught the same grace that Paul taught. Paul taught in Titus 2:11 that Grace teaches us to abandon ungodliness. The Law could not achieve that end. Here, Peter is teaching that the cleansing of the heart by faith occurs because of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does the cleaning. Faith is how we access this Grace (Romans 5).

Notice, though, that when they arrive at their recommendations for the Gentile believers, what they say, but particularly what they label these Laws as being:

Acts 15
28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater BURDEN than these essentials: 29 that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell."

Do you ever wonder why they didn't select what Jesus called the two greatest commandments? Love eachother. Love God. That doesn't come up here. Why?

Notice how he doesn't say "lay upon you no greater life giving written ordinances than these essentials." No, he says "lay upon you no greater BURDEN." Why a burden? Well, they just got through explaining that the Law of Moses was a YOKE, a hard burden to bear. So why did they place these particular burdens on the Gentiles? Again, because the Jews were offended. Notice what Paul does with Timothy just one chapter later in Acts 16.

Acts 16
3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.

So it's really as simple as this: Timothy was circumcised because Jews. Not because it was a commandment from God to Timothy for Timothy's purification of heart, or righteousness by faith. That occurs by the Spirit. Timothy was circumcised because that's what Jews were looking for to keep him out. They wanted to preach the Gospel, and they didn't want circumcision to be a barrier to that. With that in mind here is the reason the church placed this kind of BURDEN upon the Gentiles:

Acts 15
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

It's the same reason Timothy was circumcised: because Jews. They were told to do these things "because Moses of old has been preached in EVERY (yes even Gentile) cities since the old times." The church is telling the Gentiles to live at peace with the Jews. Now, notice that "fornication" is included in these BURDENS. How can such a righteous commandment be called a burden? The same way that in Romans 7 the written ordinance "do not covet" can become a burden. When you look to Laws for righteousness, "do not covet" becomes a burden because the sin within you becomes too much to battle.

Grace is what will cause you be cleansed from within, by the Spirit. However, some Gentiles struggled with this, and the church is letting them know that Jews are hearing certain things that the Law does not permit, and if they Gentiles continue in these things, the Jews will be offended and it will place an undo burden upon the Gentile church. Fornication is not permitted but that is because the carnal mind is doomed when we walk according to the SPIRIT, not because we are under Law.

As I have said before, NO Christian is under written codes. We are all under the inspiration of the Spirit to walk in righteousness. You can have blood sausage when you are in Britain (if you go for that kind of thing), but pay mind to those who are with you and around you in the culture. Be smart about your freedoms, because while the Law of Moses can never purify your heart, just know that there are others around you who strongly believe in those Laws. That is what I believe Acts 15 is all about. Thank you for taking the time to read my thoughts about this.

Very good :dsunny:

[Seth]

he is speaking as one who becomes all things to all men, but don't you think Paul clearly teaches that the law has been made of no effect, anulled, nailed to a cross?

He speaks from the law to demonstrate the insufficiency of the law

This is how the principalities and powers were disarmed and the keys to hell and death taken(imo)

Yes, I do see that, but I also see how nailing the Law to the cross also signifies how the righteousness of the Law is connected to the crucifixion of the flesh, death of the sinful flesh = love, which fulfills the Law.

[eaglesway]

In see the crucifixion of the flesh as an act of faith- reckoning it dead- realizing the world has been crucified unto me and I unto the world. The law therefore no longer comes into play at all. It is by grace through faith. if the law is alive it is only because my flesh is still alive, I am still "working"-and that is about faith as well. My flesh only dies when I rest in the finished work of Christ. Then the Spirit flows from the well in the innermost being and the victory over sin is complete by the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus, which is(agreed)- love.

[Seth]

I don't think the flesh dies by resting in the finished work of the cross. Not that we shouldn't do that, but I think the flesh dies through baptism, the Spirit which you mentioned and I agree with. It's not that I believe the Law comes into play but that there is the righteousness of the Law to be fulfilled in us. That's what I mean about how the one who is the fulfilled of the Law is still living in us still being that fulfillment. That's why I believe that we don't make void the Law through faith, but we establish it, not the letter written in ordinances but the righteousness of the Law which is contained in "love your neighbor." For he who loves has fulfilled the law.

I doubt we are in disagreement. I don't think the Law is destroyed though. Yes. Those who are led by the spirit are free from Law. But I don't think Jesus destroyed something that he literally said he wasn't going to destroy. So there had to be a connotation of "destroy" that doesn't coincide with "annul."

[eaglesway]

Also, just by way of explaining my perspectives, I form my views from what I regard(not saying I am right) as the plain statements of scripture. I really believe Paul understood Jesus so I accept his explanations(because they are scripture) and feel I must incorporate them into my overall view. I don't think there is any opposition between Jesus, Paul, Peter, James and John. I believe their words are seamlessly interwoven into the whole counsel of God, and that all their words must be accepted. To me anything less is cut out of whole cloth.

So if two portions of scripture seem to contradict, I don't choose one and reject the other- I look for a point where they integrate in a wider cosmos than previously considered, because all scripture is God-breathed and profitable for instruction and edification.

[eaglesway]

I think the ONLY WAY the flesh dies is resting in the finished work of the cross.

[Seth]

I believe it starts with belief, but the Spirit is the true killer of the flesh. I understand that from.Romans 6..

I also believe this because Christ did not do something that he said he wouldn't, that I believe his usage of "destroy" is unique from annul, as in the connotation. I am not seeking to raise one scripture above another.

[Seth]

Looking back at our exchange, I honestly don't think we have much of a disagreement in core and essence. I think that when Jesus said "I came not to destroy but to fulfill," I think he was hinting at their own expectations of what it means to no longer be under the Law. I think the word "fulfill" is a reference to the Law being annulled but replaced with that higher walk in the Spirit that you were referencing. I think the Israelites didn't understand what it means for the Law not to be in affect. Jesus didn't come to throw out that which is holy, and leave behind the sin in the flesh, but to replace the written ordinances with a better way of walking, one by which they could attain the life that was so illusive under the written commandments. Part of what Jesus did was to teach them that the problem was not with the Law, but the sin that was within them. That is what needed to be destroyed in order to be freed from the Law.

I think it's a matter of connotation about what the Jews expected. What I see happening in Scripture is that Jesus destroys US not the Law, and by doing so, resurrects us under a new Covenant, thereby annulling the application of the Law in the form of written codes. I don't think Jesus came to destroy what is holy, but that which is not holy. Seems to be a matter of nuance to me, but I think it's an important nuance.

[eaglesway]

The Spirit works through faith. The promises are realized through entering our Sabbath. "He that has entered the rest has ceased from his own works"...

"He that believes in me, out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water- this He spoke of the Spirit, which they that believe on Him should receive...."

Not wishing to argue over differences in terminology, but I believe the key to the release of the Spirit is faith...

Gal3:3 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

6 Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "All the nations will be blessed in you." 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.

10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them." 11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "The righteous man shall live by faith." 12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "He who practices them shall live by them." 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree"— 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

[Seth]

The Spirit works through faith. The promises are realized through entering our Sabbath. "He that has entered the rest has ceased from his own works"...

"He that believes in me, out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water- this He spoke of the Spirit, which they that believe on Him should receive...."

Not wishing to argue over differences in terminology, but I believe the key to the release of the Spirit is faith...

Gal3:3 You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

6 Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. 7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. 8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "All the nations will be blessed in you." 9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.

10 For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them." 11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "The righteous man shall live by faith." 12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "He who practices them shall live by them." 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree"— 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

No disagreement here.