Law/laws/sabbath (split from OSAS)

[Seth]

God bless you, FAL

:banana:  :HeartThrob:

[FreeAtLast]

FreeAtLast has said in the Sin thread: "brother the scripture says that he KEPT THE LAW    Commandments     statues     this is how he obeyed Yah voice--in that he kept THE LAW that was given unto him we obey his voice also and obey what he has given unto us the same way"

There are two views which have been discussed in this thread

1) That the Sabbath is a custom that we can choose to keep or not, but has no connection to obedience to God for Christians, or
2) The Sabbath is a commandment to God from the 10 Commandments that those who hear his voice must also obey

These are mutually exclusive arguments. That is why I find it funny that FreeAtLast is giving multiple thumbs up to Ronen, when Ronen was denying his argument. Nobody but FreeAtLAst has made any argument that the Sabbath is a commandment for Christians to obey if they hear God's voice.

Abraham kept all his commandments,statues and laws--you are arguing with Yah not me--that what the scripture said--I was just quoting that unto you

[Seth]

Just to harken back:

Me: RONEN, do you believe that observing a literal Sabbath is a matter of obedience to a God which all Christians should remain obedient to? Not obeying God is bad.
Ronen: Not at all. For me to do that will end up in death, just as with any other mitzvah, including love.

Amen to that.  :iagree:

[FreeAtLast]

Just to harken back:

Me: RONEN, do you believe that observing a literal Sabbath is a matter of obedience to a God which all Christians should remain obedient to? Not obeying God is bad.
Ronen: Not at all. For me to do that will end up in death, just as with any other mitzvah, including love.

Amen to that.  :iagree:

yea--were not the ones doing it--it is Yahshua within us that does it

under the law we were trying to do it of none avail

it has been made clear that the new testament church did all those Sabbaths--yet not them doing it but Yahshua in them --He is the Hope of Glory !!!


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:   also :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

Just to harken back:

Me: RONEN, do you believe that observing a literal Sabbath is a matter of obedience to a God which all Christians should remain obedient to? Not obeying God is bad.
Ronen: Not at all. For me to do that will end up in death, just as with any other mitzvah, including love.

Amen to that.  :iagree:

yea--were not the ones doing it--it is Yahshua within us that does it

under the law we were trying to do it of none avail

it has been made clear that the new testament church did all those Sabbaths--yet not them doing it but Yahshua in them --He is the Hope of Glory !!!


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:   also :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

That would necessarily mean that if ANY Christian does not observe Sabbath day as a literal day, then either Christ has decided not to influence them to do it, OR that he is influencing them, but they are not hearing his voice, and are therefore not obeying. So your clarification doesn't change the underlying argument that Christ is causing us to obey God by observing a literal Sabbath.

Again, the Sabbath is not a commandment for Christians to obey.

Whether or not the early Church continued a CUSTOM of it is debatable but wholly irrelevant here. The question is OBEDIENCE.

The literal Sabbath day is not a matter of obedience.

[FreeAtLast]

Just to harken back:

Me: RONEN, do you believe that observing a literal Sabbath is a matter of obedience to a God which all Christians should remain obedient to? Not obeying God is bad.
Ronen: Not at all. For me to do that will end up in death, just as with any other mitzvah, including love.

Amen to that.  :iagree:

yea--were not the ones doing it--it is Yahshua within us that does it

under the law we were trying to do it of none avail

it has been made clear that the new testament church did all those Sabbaths--yet not them doing it but Yahshua in them --He is the Hope of Glory !!!


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:   also :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

That would necessarily mean that if ANY Christian does not observe Sabbath day as a literal day, then either Christ has decided not to influence them to do it, OR that he is influencing them, but they are not hearing his voice, and are therefore not obeying. So your clarification doesn't change the underlying argument that Christ is causing us to obey God by observing a literal Sabbath.

Again, the Sabbath is not a commandment for Christians to obey.

Whether or not the early Church continued a CUSTOM of it is debatable but wholly irrelevant here. The question is OBEDIENCE.

The literal Sabbath day is not a matter of obedience.

I believe the new testament church was led by the Spirit to do what they done--that which is good that is.

either that or they just followed after traditions and were of no hope.

Yahshua did those things while in the flesh--he told his disciples to do those things--he gave the Spirit after his departure--the spirit led them the same as Yahshua did in the flesh----this is the reason why they done what they did


Yahshua in us---the Hope of Glory :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

I believe the new testament church was led by the Spirit to do what they done--that which is good that is.

either that or they just followed after traditions and were of no hope.

Yahshua did those things while in the flesh--he told his disciples to do those things--he gave the Spirit after his departure--the spirit led them the same as Yahshua did in the flesh----this is the reason why they done what they did


Yahshua in us---the Hope of Glory :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

"He told his disciples to do those things."

That would make not doing it a matter of disobedience to commandments.

What you are saying would have the dark and logically necessary implication that if Christians are not observing Sabbath as a literal day then they are NOT going where the Spirit leads, and are NOT obedient to the Lord, and are NOT hearing his voice.

I feel sorry for the poor woman who has to work on Sabbath day, who feels she might have to quit her job due to your doctrines.

[FreeAtLast]

I believe the new testament church was led by the Spirit to do what they done--that which is good that is.

either that or they just followed after traditions and were of no hope.

Yahshua did those things while in the flesh--he told his disciples to do those things--he gave the Spirit after his departure--the spirit led them the same as Yahshua did in the flesh----this is the reason why they done what they did


Yahshua in us---the Hope of Glory :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

"He told his disciples to do those things."

That would make not doing it a matter of disobedience to commandments.

What you are saying would have the dark and logically necessary implication that if Christians are not observing Sabbath as a literal day then they are NOT going where the Spirit leads, and are NOT obedient to the Lord, and are NOT hearing his voice.

I feel sorry for the poor woman who has to work on Sabbath day, who feels she might have to quit her job due to your doctrines.

Yahshua told them that if they love him to keep his commandments--they did have commandments they were told to keep

they that are of the world--loves the ways of the world
they that are of Yah love the Ways of Yah

the Spirit leads into the ways of Yah---not the world

they are his doctrines not mine--tell that to the new testament church and see their reaction--if they were alive here now :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

Yes the commandments were laid out by John "Believe in Jesus, and love your neighbor."  Not "Believe in Jesus and love your neighbor, and observe sabbath literally, and be physically circumcised, and tithe, and wash your hands, and do the festivals etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

-----------

See, at least the Israelites all lived under the Law as a matter of theocracy. So their society supported literal Sabbath observance. I feel sorry for the Christians who have to struggle under laws that are not for them in a society that does not support them.

[eaglesway]

This is really very simple. Paul made it clear here.

Col 2:16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

Paul understood Jesus clearly- having received the gospel from Him by direct revelation, which Paul declared, to the elders at Ephesus gathered at Mlietus in Acts 20, to have been the whole counsel of God.

[eaglesway]

In accordance with that scripture I am going to lock this thread for a day or maybe two, for a sabbath rest :o)