Law/laws/sabbath (split from OSAS)

[Seth]

Some of the prophets had the Spirit, but that does not mean they were converted by it.

John 7
37In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

So, the manifestation of the Spirit as a river of water by which man may come to Christ and drink and out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water, was not available until Christ was glorified. This is why the crucifixion was necessary. Otherwise it wasn't necessary for Christ to be resurrected to give these rivers of water to anyone else who wanted it.

None can receive the Holy Spirit unless they believe in Christ (Acts 2:38). But they murdered Christ instead because Christ said that they did not believe.

No Prophet in the old testament as I recall had the spirit indwelling--they only had the spirit come upon them to do the ministry they were given--not came to indwell.

Hebrews 4 talks of the 7th day Sabbath rest----the jews in Ezekiel didn't have the rest you are talking about because messiah had never come neither had the spirit been given to indwell people.

point is that the writer of Hebrews said that the rest that the jews of Ezekiel had still REMAINED unto that present time--and for them not to fall after the same example of their unbelief--the rest remained for the people of God in the new testament just  as it was in the old testament

basically don't pollute his Sabbaths,walk in his statues and commandments or fall after the same example of unbelief  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

Have you ever read the prophecy that Hebrews 4 is referencing?

Psalm 95
8"Do not harden your hearts as you did at Meribah,[a]
    as you did that day at Massah in the wilderness,
9 where your ancestors tested me;
    they tried me, though they had seen what I did.
10 For forty years I was angry with that generation;
    I said, 'They are a people whose hearts go astray,
    and they have not known my ways.'
11 So I declared on oath in my anger,
    'They shall not enter my rest.'"

Hebrews is not referring to the 10 commandment ordinance of the Sabbath, but to the failure ofIsrael to enter into the promised land. Just as Paul spiritualized the Sabbath as being a shadow of the body of Christ, so also did David and the author of Hebrews spiritualize the promised land as being God's rest.

Numbers 14:22-23
Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice; Surely they shall not see the land which I swore unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it.


The Bible says that "Israel is God's first born son."

Both the LAND and the literal sabbath day represent (being shadows) the body of Christ. Christ really meant it when he said that the scriptures testify ABOUT HIM.

[FreeAtLast]

Some of the prophets had the Spirit, but that does not mean they were converted by it.

John 7
37In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

So, the manifestation of the Spirit as a river of water by which man may come to Christ and drink and out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water, was not available until Christ was glorified. This is why the crucifixion was necessary. Otherwise it wasn't necessary for Christ to be resurrected to give these rivers of water to anyone else who wanted it.

None can receive the Holy Spirit unless they believe in Christ (Acts 2:38). But they murdered Christ instead because Christ said that they did not believe.

No Prophet in the old testament as I recall had the spirit indwelling--they only had the spirit come upon them to do the ministry they were given--not came to indwell.

Hebrews 4 talks of the 7th day Sabbath rest----the jews in Ezekiel didn't have the rest you are talking about because messiah had never come neither had the spirit been given to indwell people.

point is that the writer of Hebrews said that the rest that the jews of Ezekiel had still REMAINED unto that present time--and for them not to fall after the same example of their unbelief--the rest remained for the people of God in the new testament just  as it was in the old testament

basically don't pollute his Sabbaths,walk in his statues and commandments or fall after the same example of unbelief  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

Have you ever read the prophecy that Hebrews 4 is referencing?

Psalm 95
8"Do not harden your hearts as you did at Meribah,[a]
    as you did that day at Massah in the wilderness,
9 where your ancestors tested me;
    they tried me, though they had seen what I did.
10 For forty years I was angry with that generation;
    I said, 'They are a people whose hearts go astray,
    and they have not known my ways.'
11 So I declared on oath in my anger,
    'They shall not enter my rest.'"

Hebrews is not referring to the 10 commandment ordinance of the Sabbath, but to the failure ofIsrael to enter into the promised land. Just as Paul spiritualized the Sabbath as being a shadow of the body of Christ, so also did David and the author of Hebrews spiritualize the promised land as being God's rest.

Numbers 14:22-23
Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice; Surely they shall not see the land which I swore unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it.


The Bible says that "Israel is God's first born son."

Both the LAND and the literal sabbath day represent (being shadows) the body of Christ. Christ really meant it when he said that the scriptures testify ABOUT HIM.

did you also read Ezekiel 20---says the same things as psalms does---but psalms say his ways  and Ezekiel tells you what his ways are--Sabbaths,Statues

Ezekiel 20 gives you more plainer vision of the context--indeed it is talking about the 7th day Sabbath rest that remained for the people of God in new testament just as it did for those in Ezekiel --and the warning was not to fall after the same unbelief --what was their unbelief--polluted his Sabbaths,despising his Statues---


read Ezekiel 20---this is the portion of scripture that the writer is quoting from--

how can you labor to enter that rest if you have it everyday ?? you cant

you labor to enter that rest in the 6 days of the week and finally enter it on the 7th    :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

When did God warn them that he would not allow them to keep the literal Sabbath day? That doesn't even make sense. He ORDERED them to keep the Sabbath day.

Jesus was very clear that the scriptures testify about HIM. That means that BOTH the Sabbath and the promised land representative CHRIST.

That is why Jesus says COME TO ME and I will give you rest. Anyone who.enters into Christ has come into the fulfillment of both the promised land and the shadows and are therefore not violating the Sabbath by honoring it as a literal day.

[FreeAtLast]

When did God warn them that he would not allow them to keep the literal Sabbath day? That doesn't even make sense. He ORDERED them to keep the Sabbath day.

Jesus was very clear that the scriptures testify about HIM. That means that BOTH the Sabbath and the promised land representative CHRIST.

That is why Jesus says COME TO ME and I will give you rest. Anyone who.enters into Christ has come into the fulfillment of both the promised land and the shadows and are therefore not violating the Sabbath by honoring it as a literal day.

still you must deal with Hebrews 4 in context--and that context is 7th day Sabbath rest

they were warned to NOT to do as the jews in Ezekial did--what did they do ?/ they polluted the 7th day rest,despised his statues.

that same rest that they had in Eze. still remained for the people of yah in Hebrews--that's what he said--and for them to not fall after the same unbelief--its very clear to me---you cant say it wasn't saying the 7th day rest--they both had that in old and new

if you say it is a spiritual rest its talking about--I say not possible because the jews of Eze. didn't have the spirit indwelling for that kind of rest

So therefore it could not be remaining for new testament believers if the old never had it ??

the old had the 7th day rest and it remained as the writer said for the people of Yah even in Hebrews time  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

Ezekiel 20 proves the same thing as I was saying

Ezekiel 20
13 "'Yet the people of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness. They did not follow my decrees but rejected my laws—by which the person who obeys them will live—and they utterly desecrated my Sabbaths. So I said I would pour out my wrath on them and destroy them in the wilderness. 14 But for the sake of my name I did what would keep it from being profaned in the eyes of the nations in whose sight I had brought them out. 15 Also with uplifted hand I swore to them in the wilderness that I would not bring them into the land I had given them—a land flowing with milk and honey, the most beautiful of all lands.

So, we know a few things

1) The Old Testament speaks of Christ
1) Hebrews 4 is a reference to the Holy Land
2) The Holy land is God's rest
3) Jesus is our rest
4) The Holy Land is a shadow of Jesus
5) The Jews were held from entering the literal land for not following statutes

Fast forward to the New Covenant. Jesus declares himself to be God's rest and requires us to enter into him by what means?

Galatians 3
2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?

Well, of course, Paul's point is that it wasn't works of the Law by which we receive the promise, but faith. As it happens there is a statute for Christians about that.

1 John 3:23
And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

We DON'T enter into God's rest by the works of the Law. This is BASIC STUFF. The Jews had their statutes, and absent their obedience they did not enter into the land. CHRISTIANS have one statute to receive Christ: BELIEVE.

[FreeAtLast]

Ezekiel 20 proves the same thing as I was saying

Ezekiel 20
13 "'Yet the people of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness. They did not follow my decrees but rejected my laws—by which the person who obeys them will live—and they utterly desecrated my Sabbaths. So I said I would pour out my wrath on them and destroy them in the wilderness. 14 But for the sake of my name I did what would keep it from being profaned in the eyes of the nations in whose sight I had brought them out. 15 Also with uplifted hand I swore to them in the wilderness that I would not bring them into the land I had given them—a land flowing with milk and honey, the most beautiful of all lands.

So, we know a few things

1) The Old Testament speaks of Christ
1) Hebrews 4 is a reference to the Holy Land
2) The Holy land is God's rest
3) Jesus is our rest
4) The Holy Land is a shadow of Jesus
5) The Jews were held from entering the literal land for not following statutes

Fast forward to the New Covenant. Jesus declares himself to be God's rest and requires us to enter into him by what means?

Galatians 3
2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?

Well, of course, Paul's point is that it wasn't works of the Law by which we receive the promise, but faith. As it happens there is a statute for Christians about that.

1 John 3:23
And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

We DON'T enter into God's rest by the works of the Law. This is BASIC STUFF. The Jews had their statutes, and absent their obedience they did not enter into the land. CHRISTIANS have one statute to receive Christ: BELIEVE.

your still not dealing with Hebrews 4    :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

how can something remain for some that others had--if they never had the indwelling spirit ???
if you have that rest already---why labor to enter something you already have ??

falling after the same example--Hebrews dealt with the 7th day rest
eze dealt with the 7th day rest

that same rest that eze jews had  remained for the Hebrew people of Yah

what do you say about these comments I just made ??

[FreeAtLast]

Ezekiel 20 proves the same thing as I was saying

Ezekiel 20
13 "'Yet the people of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness. They did not follow my decrees but rejected my laws—by which the person who obeys them will live—and they utterly desecrated my Sabbaths. So I said I would pour out my wrath on them and destroy them in the wilderness. 14 But for the sake of my name I did what would keep it from being profaned in the eyes of the nations in whose sight I had brought them out. 15 Also with uplifted hand I swore to them in the wilderness that I would not bring them into the land I had given them—a land flowing with milk and honey, the most beautiful of all lands.

So, we know a few things

1) The Old Testament speaks of Christ
1) Hebrews 4 is a reference to the Holy Land
2) The Holy land is God's rest
3) Jesus is our rest
4) The Holy Land is a shadow of Jesus
5) The Jews were held from entering the literal land for not following statutes

Fast forward to the New Covenant. Jesus declares himself to be God's rest and requires us to enter into him by what means?

Galatians 3
2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?

Well, of course, Paul's point is that it wasn't works of the Law by which we receive the promise, but faith. As it happens there is a statute for Christians about that.

1 John 3:23
And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

We DON'T enter into God's rest by the works of the Law. This is BASIC STUFF. The Jews had their statutes, and absent their obedience they did not enter into the land. CHRISTIANS have one statute to receive Christ: BELIEVE.

your still not dealing with Hebrews 4    :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

how can something remain for some that others had--if they never had the indwelling spirit ???
if you have that rest already---why labor to enter something you already have ??

falling after the same example--Hebrews dealt with the 7th day rest
eze dealt with the 7th day rest

that same rest that eze jews had  remained for the Hebrew people of Yah

what do you say about these comments I just made ??

sure they were not brought in the land---why  ??? because of their unbelief in doing some horrible things

polluting the Sabbaths
despising his statues

that same rest they had and polluted remained for the Hebrew people of Yah--don't fall after their example ???

[Seth]

First, here is the statute necessary for entering into the rest.

Hebrews 4
3 Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,

SO, we enter into sabbath-rest by believing in Jesus:

Hebrews 4
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from their works,[e] just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

So, Just as Jesus said: Come to me and I will give you rest, and Paul said that the Sabbath is a shadow of the body of Christ, the Sabbath rest represents no longer leaning on our own righteousness which is by the Law, but to rest from our own works of the Law in the Spirit, which inspires us to love our neighbor.

sure they were not brought in the land---why  ??? because of their unbelief in doing some horrible things

polluting the Sabbaths
despising his statues

that same rest they had and polluted remained for the Hebrew people of Yah--don't fall after their example ???

Today, the statute is "believe." That is how you enter into sabbath rest, NOT by works of the law, like observing Sabbath as a literal day. Sabbath is a reality in Christ which the shadow foretold.

[FreeAtLast]

First, here is the statute necessary for entering into the rest.

Hebrews 4
3 Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,

SO, we enter into sabbath-rest by believing in Jesus:

Hebrews 4
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from their works,[e] just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

So, Just as Jesus said: Come to me and I will give you rest, and Paul said that the Sabbath is a shadow of the body of Christ, the Sabbath rest represents no longer leaning on our own righteousness which is by the Law, but to rest from our own works of the Law in the Spirit, which inspires us to love our neighbor.

sure they were not brought in the land---why  ??? because of their unbelief in doing some horrible things

polluting the Sabbaths
despising his statues

that same rest they had and polluted remained for the Hebrew people of Yah--don't fall after their example ???

Today, the statute is "believe." That is how you enter into sabbath rest, NOT by works of the law, like observing Sabbath as a literal day. Sabbath is a reality in Christ which the shadow foretold.

we who believe do enter into that rest----that's what he said--true   :dsunny:

Now he also said    Let US(those who believe)labor to enter into that rest---?????if we already entered that rest and have it--how can we possibly labor for it  :eek:

Those that enter that rest have ceased from their works just as Yah did---????if we cease from our works--where does the let us labor to enter come in ??

see this spiritual rest--which is true in the proper light--does not apply to this context--cannot apply---too many contradictions for it to do so.


Now on the other hand with the 7th day Sabbath rest---what can we say ??

Let us labor to enter it(work 6 days of labor and enter the 7th day Sabbath rest)
we who believe do enter into it(once a week)
we cease from our works when we enter this rest(we don't work or labor on the 7th day Sabbath )

see how there are no contradictions with the 7th day Sabbath rest ???all fits in nicely---unlike the one above  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

You got caught up in the Old English.

The word "labor" is from this:

Cognate: 4704 spoudázō – properly, be swift (go fast, be speedy); (figuratively) to move speedily by showing full diligence

It means to have HASTE and be diligent, not to add works of the Law in order to maintain your promise of the Spirit. The promise of the Spirit is given according to faith, not by works of the Law.

[FreeAtLast]

You got caught up in the Old English.

The word "labor" is from this:

Cognate: 4704 spoudázō – properly, be swift (go fast, be speedy); (figuratively) to move speedily by showing full diligence

It means to have HASTE and be diligent, not to add works of the Law in order to maintain your promise of the Spirit. The promise of the Spirit is given according to faith, not by works of the Law.

you added in that other part of adding works of the law--that's no where in this context at all

Just proves the same anyway--let us speedily enter into that rest--again how can you speedily enter something that you suppose to already have ????

again---we who believe enter that rest --can you speedily enter in after you already have it--no need to enter is there ???

according to your view that you are saying--the writer says that we have already entered if we belief--then comes back and says let US(believers) speedily enter in to that rest

still too many contradictions---doesn't even make sense at all    :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

Look again:

Hebrews 4
3 Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,

"So I declared on oath in my anger,
    'They shall never enter my rest.'"
And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world. 4 For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: "On the seventh day God rested from all his works." 5 And again in the passage above he says, "They shall never enter my rest."

6 Therefore since it still remains for some to enter that rest, and since those who formerly had the good news proclaimed to them did not go in because of their disobedience, 7 God again set a certain day, calling it "Today."

First of all, the fact that sabbath-rest is offered TODAY undoes your previous assertion that we must wait for the second coming of Christ for it. It's available TODAY.

Secondly, why do you keep claiming that he is talking to people who already have it, when he is clear that IT STILL REMAINS for some to enter into that rest. It logically follows, therefore, that since we enter into God's rest by faith, that he is talking to some people that do not have faith. He is using the words "let us" because he wants THE ENTIRE body of Israel to believe (hastily) and enter into the rest.

[FreeAtLast]

Some of the prophets had the Spirit, but that does not mean they were converted by it.

John 7
37In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

So, the manifestation of the Spirit as a river of water by which man may come to Christ and drink and out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water, was not available until Christ was glorified. This is why the crucifixion was necessary. Otherwise it wasn't necessary for Christ to be resurrected to give these rivers of water to anyone else who wanted it.

None can receive the Holy Spirit unless they believe in Christ (Acts 2:38). But they murdered Christ instead because Christ said that they did not believe.

No Prophet in the old testament as I recall had the spirit indwelling--they only had the spirit come upon them to do the ministry they were given--not came to indwell.

Hebrews 4 talks of the 7th day Sabbath rest----the jews in Ezekiel didn't have the rest you are talking about because messiah had never come neither had the spirit been given to indwell people.

point is that the writer of Hebrews said that the rest that the jews of Ezekiel had still REMAINED unto that present time--and for them not to fall after the same example of their unbelief--the rest remained for the people of God in the new testament just  as it was in the old testament

basically don't pollute his Sabbaths,walk in his statues and commandments or fall after the same example of unbelief  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

Have you ever read the prophecy that Hebrews 4 is referencing?

Psalm 95
8"Do not harden your hearts as you did at Meribah,[a]
    as you did that day at Massah in the wilderness,
9 where your ancestors tested me;
    they tried me, though they had seen what I did.
10 For forty years I was angry with that generation;
    I said, 'They are a people whose hearts go astray,
    and they have not known my ways.'
11 So I declared on oath in my anger,
    'They shall not enter my rest.'"

Hebrews is not referring to the 10 commandment ordinance of the Sabbath, but to the failure ofIsrael to enter into the promised land. Just as Paul spiritualized the Sabbath as being a shadow of the body of Christ, so also did David and the author of Hebrews spiritualize the promised land as being God's rest.

Numbers 14:22-23
Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice; Surely they shall not see the land which I swore unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it.


The Bible says that "Israel is God's first born son."

Both the LAND and the literal sabbath day represent (being shadows) the body of Christ. Christ really meant it when he said that the scriptures testify ABOUT HIM.

how do you explain the writer saying let US enter in that rest--when the writer and the believers had already believed ???

we who do believe enter that rest--how can they speedily enter that rest after they have believed and entered already ???

please give attention to these 2 questions   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[FreeAtLast]

Some of the prophets had the Spirit, but that does not mean they were converted by it.

John 7
37In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

So, the manifestation of the Spirit as a river of water by which man may come to Christ and drink and out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water, was not available until Christ was glorified. This is why the crucifixion was necessary. Otherwise it wasn't necessary for Christ to be resurrected to give these rivers of water to anyone else who wanted it.

None can receive the Holy Spirit unless they believe in Christ (Acts 2:38). But they murdered Christ instead because Christ said that they did not believe.

No Prophet in the old testament as I recall had the spirit indwelling--they only had the spirit come upon them to do the ministry they were given--not came to indwell.

Hebrews 4 talks of the 7th day Sabbath rest----the jews in Ezekiel didn't have the rest you are talking about because messiah had never come neither had the spirit been given to indwell people.

point is that the writer of Hebrews said that the rest that the jews of Ezekiel had still REMAINED unto that present time--and for them not to fall after the same example of their unbelief--the rest remained for the people of God in the new testament just  as it was in the old testament

basically don't pollute his Sabbaths,walk in his statues and commandments or fall after the same example of unbelief  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

Have you ever read the prophecy that Hebrews 4 is referencing?

Psalm 95
8"Do not harden your hearts as you did at Meribah,[a]
    as you did that day at Massah in the wilderness,
9 where your ancestors tested me;
    they tried me, though they had seen what I did.
10 For forty years I was angry with that generation;
    I said, 'They are a people whose hearts go astray,
    and they have not known my ways.'
11 So I declared on oath in my anger,
    'They shall not enter my rest.'"

Hebrews is not referring to the 10 commandment ordinance of the Sabbath, but to the failure ofIsrael to enter into the promised land. Just as Paul spiritualized the Sabbath as being a shadow of the body of Christ, so also did David and the author of Hebrews spiritualize the promised land as being God's rest.

Numbers 14:22-23
Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice; Surely they shall not see the land which I swore unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it.


The Bible says that "Israel is God's first born son."

Both the LAND and the literal sabbath day represent (being shadows) the body of Christ. Christ really meant it when he said that the scriptures testify ABOUT HIM.

how do you explain the writer saying let US enter in that rest--when the writer and the believers had already believed ???

we who do believe enter that rest--how can they speedily enter that rest after they have believed and entered already ???

please give attention to these 2 questions   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

well I must be going for a bit--

Brother I really do enjoy our conversations whether we agree or not  ---Blessings--- :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of Yah---this is stating that the rest still remains for the people of Yah in that day just as it did in the eze days

If there remaineth a rest for the people of God, then it therefore remains for them to enter in, because his point is that some persist in unbelief. That means the author was saying that some do not believe but persist in unbelief so there remains a rest FOR THEM TO ENTER (they haven't yet), through faith.

The "rest" was made available when Jesus Christ was resurrected, and there remains a rest for them if they believe TODAY. This was symbolized by the promised land that they were not able to enter. God swore that they would not enter into his sabbath rest (the body of Jesus Christ), and you can see that prophecy true today by the fact that they are blinded to the truth and therefore unable to enter into his rest by faith.

still the writer is saying let us enter that rest--which means they don't have it all the time--or they would not have to enter it again

11 Let us labour (be hasty) therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

The commandment to believe is the ONLY statute by which we enter into his rest under the new covenant. So the criteria to lose his rest is to "fall into the example of unbelief." So to regain rest in Christ we must not faulter in our faith. When we go to the Law, that is exactly what we do. Then, we fall from Grace which teaches us to say no to ungodliness because the Law is not of faith.

So if we fall away from faith unto the works of the Law, we will not be able to grow in Grace, because Christ (our sabbath rest) will avail us nothing, and rather than rest from our works and have Christ be our inward righteousness within, we will be fallen from Grace.

[lastpost]

It is educational to witness different viewpoints. For myself, entering the rest of God through Christ, is having the privilege of active service by the grace of the Spirit of Christ the Restorer; to serve Him is my rest, and not to be able to serve Him is to deny me my spiritual birthright which is unrest. This means that I do not wish for a dreamy floating life in eternity, but rather a full and evermore progressive life of devoted service to the Lord of Life filled with His Spirit - Joy of Joys.

For myself, Christ is my Law, He is my Saviour, and faith in Christ removes all fear because even thinking of Christ fills one with His love. I do not depend upon any other laws, just the laws that come from God through Christ, which I perceive according to my perception - which are not statutes as such, but laws there are and they create sin when broken. He has set me free. I have such abundance with Christ it overshadows following religious laws of the type of observing the Sabbath.

Oh, what a brilliant and perfect plan by God, a simple Gift for all humanity if only the human mind was not so complicated. I do not expect others to see things exactly the way I see them, I have an understanding of Christ's life and 'Christian spiritual laws', and it is not tied to scriptural legalism, and to wrap it up in some sentences, if I may, it is like this.

I believe that the life of Christ must be taken as a whole with His death, as One, as united and inseparable; and that not to do so misses a wealth of spiritual treasure which He brought as multiple helps to simplify the path that man complicates for himself. Christ declared truth and lived by it too.

I see that Christ expressed a perfect and deep love which was self-sacrificing, and it was emblazoned upon the highest height for humanity to see, so that it, humanity, could know its God; He expressed that love because He was that love. Christ hoisted aloft the standard of self-sacrifice and self-denial, charity and love.

Today, it is there as a Pattern for a generation to attempt to imitate. Jesus Christ lovingly toiled during His time in the body for the humanity that He did indeed love with a true love, like no other could love; a love which for the most part was unrequited, the pain of which far exceeded in intensity any pain the Physical could inflict.

I believe that should it wish to do so, mankind can see the earnestness of Christ's purpose amongst men, the loving labour of His life; in Christ is seen a simple sincerity; He is distinguished and lifted up above all others by His pure life and perfect thought. If men and women are shown that it is the perfect Way for their imitation, they can pledge their time and their energies to His Divine example, assured that there is no higher law of love. Christ in the flesh was Purity Incarnate.

I see that Christ used reason - His perfect mind met the minds of men and women with reason; He placed before them life and death, He provided knowledge of an eternity where death is not seen; He dignified the nature of humanity and made known its noble attributes; an unfolding life of hope was gifted by Him not just to a pleading people who were crushed by a failed priesthood and a cruel earthly authority, but to humanity today desperately in need of a reasoned Pattern into which they can place their complete faith.

I see in Christ the perfect Saviour - a Saviour in every manner and direction. Salvation for all humanity was paid for by His Blood. From His life came the betterment of humanity, and as far as I am concerned, His life was also part of humanity's salvation. To me, Christ fulfilled the religious law into which He was born; He demonstrated by teaching and example the end of such a law, which was Himself, the Great Completer, the Anointed Accomplisher - and He exposed the commandments from which the rituals of the law sprang. I see that for Christ Himself, He was the fulfilment of the law rather than its abolition. At the heart of Mosaic law was truth, and Christ revealed it, He declared it, He stated in a few sentences the truth upon which the whole law was based. The blind hypocrisy, endless speculation, and empty ritualistic materialism of the upholders of the religion which Christ found Himself amongst, covered the truth like filthy clothes; the facade of the priests was removed, and instead Christ brought forth into daylight the beautiful Divine Truth which had been entombed for an age. Now that truth is written into the hearts and minds of those who love Him - and that love goes to all of humanity.

What I see is that Christ made possible the testing and assessing, by a man or a woman, of his or her religion or way of life, by the examination of the manifesting fruits; He provided the means as to how men could probe deep within their hearts in order that their lives be inspected and judged; He showed ways for the self-investigation of motives. As Truth Incarnate He instructed those who watched and listened that they should be truthful; His commandments and teachings ensured that man should always strive for a heart which is honest and has true intent; that man should show mercy and self-denial, purity and humility. What Christ taught, He displayed it Himself to perfection before man.

Christ reformed in the social sphere as well as the religious sphere. He uplifted people in body and spirit; revealed false claimants as wild animals, exposed deceit, dishonesty and pretence. He spoke the truth and exposed the lies; from God He came and set people free with the truth, He wanted to remove the cruel whips of tyrants' hearts from the backs of down-trodden slaves. He was the Christ of God and He spent His time healing people, elevating people, pouring out the truth on people, calling to people for honest repentance and inner transformation. This, amongst other things, He called the things of His Father for which He was responsible to carry out.

Christ went about the Business which was His Father's: "...preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God (Mark 1:14-15)" - which included helping man's lot at least tangibly in this life, providing a way to free man from narrow-mindedness, selfishness and bigotry; He called for people to be inwardly honest and repent of their sins; of the Hereafter He declared a Better Life and provided a glimpse of it. He dealt with the past, the present and the future, yet He pointed people to their daily life, leaving tomorrow to look after itself - it was a process of life.

According to my understanding, Christ taught of a spiritual life, a life which was for the soul within the body, but He also taught about a duty, while the spirit is earth-bound, to ones fellows, brothers and sisters, old, young, poor and broken-hearted. He chose to live as a common person amongst the poor, needy and destitute and showed them dignity like a beautiful hedgerow flower amongst the weeds; He taught in their homes truths which they were able to take in, lessons of a simple nature which they needed; those of worldly wisdom He hardly went amongst, whose orthodox respectability blinded them to truth. Yet those who could listen heard Jesus Christ teach, and their hearts and minds were set ablaze with love, they desired something better than they had, and Christ gave them direction on how they might have it; He gave man something which could provide his necessities, something which could reach that which he lacked; it was a teaching for humanity; He took that which was buried under a pile of materialism created by man and He spiritualised it. Man had altered truth and He straightened it out.

As for myself, I will take Jesus as my Guide, as my Law. What I do know is that He has bound Himself with me for eternity, my spirit with His Spirit, the Christ Spirit. Where this little earth is concerned, I care about the simple Christ Jesus, the most spiritually dynamic Entity this world has ever been graced with, the Gentle Jesus who represents a God so Mighty that man can only begin to fathom Him during this short fragment of existence he calls life.

I know of progress, something which I consider essential in a spiritual life, and which I hear Christ talking about. I am not content with the present because content only belongs to a past if well-spent, which, along with lessons I perceive I have yet to conquer, spurs me on in the present that I might progress in the future. I think it a serious danger if one should think they have arrived at finality - it leads to retrogression inevitably, in my opinion, for someone who arrives at a stage where they think there is nothing else for them to learn, well, they have no lessons left to learn, or so they think. Choice sentences which people favour do not alter this most basic and fundamental understanding for myself; in the life of Christ is found that which works; in the life of man is found that which stops it working - I refer to the lesser self of man with his fear, his desire to be right, his desire to be applauded, his desire for power. I believe that the Light of the bright Spheres of God soon dries up the doctrines of men and then each finds themself as they really are, open to the sight of all - and in my opinion, the meaning of judgement shall then be truly understood.

In His Peace, He who is the Master of Life.

For myself, He is Life itself, or rather He is One with the Supreme God and I am kept safe in God in Christ. He is the Guide and He never leaves, although He allows for the individual to pick up his own cross so he might learn his own lessons that he may know the zest of eternal life in its fullness.

[Shev]

It is educational to witness different viewpoints. For myself, entering the rest of God through Christ, is having the privilege of active service by the grace of the Spirit of Christ the Restorer; to serve Him is my rest, and not to be able to serve Him is to deny me my spiritual birthright which is unrest. This means that I do not wish for a dreamy floating life in eternity, but rather a full and evermore progressive life of devoted service to the Lord of Life filled with His Spirit - Joy of Joys.

For myself, Christ is my Law, He is my Saviour, and faith in Christ removes all fear because even thinking of Christ fills one with His love. I do not depend upon any other laws, just the laws that come from God through Christ, which I perceive according to my perception - which are not statutes as such, but laws there are and they create sin when broken. He has set me free. I have such abundance with Christ it overshadows following religious laws of the type of observing the Sabbath.

Oh, what a brilliant and perfect plan by God, a simple Gift for all humanity if only the human mind was not so complicated. I do not expect others to see things exactly the way I see them, I have an understanding of Christ's life and 'Christian spiritual laws', and it is not tied to scriptural legalism, and to wrap it up in some sentences, if I may, it is like this.

I believe that the life of Christ must be taken as a whole with His death, as One, as united and inseparable; and that not to do so misses a wealth of spiritual treasure which He brought as multiple helps to simplify the path that man complicates for himself. Christ declared truth and lived by it too.

I see that Christ expressed a perfect and deep love which was self-sacrificing, and it was emblazoned upon the highest height for humanity to see, so that it, humanity, could know its God; He expressed that love because He was that love. Christ hoisted aloft the standard of self-sacrifice and self-denial, charity and love.

Today, it is there as a Pattern for a generation to attempt to imitate. Jesus Christ lovingly toiled during His time in the body for the humanity that He did indeed love with a true love, like no other could love; a love which for the most part was unrequited, the pain of which far exceeded in intensity any pain the Physical could inflict.

I believe that should it wish to do so, mankind can see the earnestness of Christ's purpose amongst men, the loving labour of His life; in Christ is seen a simple sincerity; He is distinguished and lifted up above all others by His pure life and perfect thought. If men and women are shown that it is the perfect Way for their imitation, they can pledge their time and their energies to His Divine example, assured that there is no higher law of love. Christ in the flesh was Purity Incarnate.

I see that Christ used reason - His perfect mind met the minds of men and women with reason; He placed before them life and death, He provided knowledge of an eternity where death is not seen; He dignified the nature of humanity and made known its noble attributes; an unfolding life of hope was gifted by Him not just to a pleading people who were crushed by a failed priesthood and a cruel earthly authority, but to humanity today desperately in need of a reasoned Pattern into which they can place their complete faith.

I see in Christ the perfect Saviour - a Saviour in every manner and direction. Salvation for all humanity was paid for by His Blood. From His life came the betterment of humanity, and as far as I am concerned, His life was also part of humanity's salvation. To me, Christ fulfilled the religious law into which He was born; He demonstrated by teaching and example the end of such a law, which was Himself, the Great Completer, the Anointed Accomplisher - and He exposed the commandments from which the rituals of the law sprang. I see that for Christ Himself, He was the fulfilment of the law rather than its abolition. At the heart of Mosaic law was truth, and Christ revealed it, He declared it, He stated in a few sentences the truth upon which the whole law was based. The blind hypocrisy, endless speculation, and empty ritualistic materialism of the upholders of the religion which Christ found Himself amongst, covered the truth like filthy clothes; the facade of the priests was removed, and instead Christ brought forth into daylight the beautiful Divine Truth which had been entombed for an age. Now that truth is written into the hearts and minds of those who love Him - and that love goes to all of humanity.

What I see is that Christ made possible the testing and assessing, by a man or a woman, of his or her religion or way of life, by the examination of the manifesting fruits; He provided the means as to how men could probe deep within their hearts in order that their lives be inspected and judged; He showed ways for the self-investigation of motives. As Truth Incarnate He instructed those who watched and listened that they should be truthful; His commandments and teachings ensured that man should always strive for a heart which is honest and has true intent; that man should show mercy and self-denial, purity and humility. What Christ taught, He displayed it Himself to perfection before man.

Christ reformed in the social sphere as well as the religious sphere. He uplifted people in body and spirit; revealed false claimants as wild animals, exposed deceit, dishonesty and pretence. He spoke the truth and exposed the lies; from God He came and set people free with the truth, He wanted to remove the cruel whips of tyrants' hearts from the backs of down-trodden slaves. He was the Christ of God and He spent His time healing people, elevating people, pouring out the truth on people, calling to people for honest repentance and inner transformation. This, amongst other things, He called the things of His Father for which He was responsible to carry out.

Christ went about the Business which was His Father's: "...preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God (Mark 1:14-15)" - which included helping man's lot at least tangibly in this life, providing a way to free man from narrow-mindedness, selfishness and bigotry; He called for people to be inwardly honest and repent of their sins; of the Hereafter He declared a Better Life and provided a glimpse of it. He dealt with the past, the present and the future, yet He pointed people to their daily life, leaving tomorrow to look after itself - it was a process of life.

According to my understanding, Christ taught of a spiritual life, a life which was for the soul within the body, but He also taught about a duty, while the spirit is earth-bound, to ones fellows, brothers and sisters, old, young, poor and broken-hearted. He chose to live as a common person amongst the poor, needy and destitute and showed them dignity like a beautiful hedgerow flower amongst the weeds; He taught in their homes truths which they were able to take in, lessons of a simple nature which they needed; those of worldly wisdom He hardly went amongst, whose orthodox respectability blinded them to truth. Yet those who could listen heard Jesus Christ teach, and their hearts and minds were set ablaze with love, they desired something better than they had, and Christ gave them direction on how they might have it; He gave man something which could provide his necessities, something which could reach that which he lacked; it was a teaching for humanity; He took that which was buried under a pile of materialism created by man and He spiritualised it. Man had altered truth and He straightened it out.

As for myself, I will take Jesus as my Guide, as my Law. What I do know is that He has bound Himself with me for eternity, my spirit with His Spirit, the Christ Spirit. Where this little earth is concerned, I care about the simple Christ Jesus, the most spiritually dynamic Entity this world has ever been graced with, the Gentle Jesus who represents a God so Mighty that man can only begin to fathom Him during this short fragment of existence he calls life.

I know of progress, something which I consider essential in a spiritual life, and which I hear Christ talking about. I am not content with the present because content only belongs to a past if well-spent, which, along with lessons I perceive I have yet to conquer, spurs me on in the present that I might progress in the future. I think it a serious danger if one should think they have arrived at finality - it leads to retrogression inevitably, in my opinion, for someone who arrives at a stage where they think there is nothing else for them to learn, well, they have no lessons left to learn, or so they think. Choice sentences which people favour do not alter this most basic and fundamental understanding for myself; in the life of Christ is found that which works; in the life of man is found that which stops it working - I refer to the lesser self of man with his fear, his desire to be right, his desire to be applauded, his desire for power. I believe that the Light of the bright Spheres of God soon dries up the doctrines of men and then each finds themself as they really are, open to the sight of all - and in my opinion, the meaning of judgement shall then be truly understood.

In His Peace, He who is the Master of Life.

For myself, He is Life itself, or rather He is One with the Supreme God and I am kept safe in God in Christ. He is the Guide and He never leaves, although He allows for the individual to pick up his own cross so he might learn his own lessons that he may know the zest of eternal life in its fullness.

Beautiful post, brother!    :dsunny:

[Seth]

 :thumbsup: :dsunny:

[FreeAtLast]

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of Yah---this is stating that the rest still remains for the people of Yah in that day just as it did in the eze days

If there remaineth a rest for the people of God, then it therefore remains for them to enter in, because his point is that some persist in unbelief. That means the author was saying that some do not believe but persist in unbelief so there remains a rest FOR THEM TO ENTER (they haven't yet), through faith.

The "rest" was made available when Jesus Christ was resurrected, and there remains a rest for them if they believe TODAY. This was symbolized by the promised land that they were not able to enter. God swore that they would not enter into his sabbath rest (the body of Jesus Christ), and you can see that prophecy true today by the fact that they are blinded to the truth and therefore unable to enter into his rest by faith.

still the writer is saying let us enter that rest--which means they don't have it all the time--or they would not have to enter it again

11 Let us labour (be hasty) therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

The commandment to believe is the ONLY statute by which we enter into his rest under the new covenant. So the criteria to lose his rest is to "fall into the example of unbelief." So to regain rest in Christ we must not faulter in our faith. When we go to the Law, that is exactly what we do. Then, we fall from Grace which teaches us to say no to ungodliness because the Law is not of faith.

So if we fall away from faith unto the works of the Law, we will not be able to grow in Grace, because Christ (our sabbath rest) will avail us nothing, and rather than rest from our works and have Christ be our inward righteousness within, we will be fallen from Grace.

The writer still says let US(himself included)   did the writer fall from grace also and need to return ??

can you enter that rest more than once ??

I believe the wrtier was paul--paul had already believed before he wrote this and he was stedfast in the faith

So how can paul say let US(himself included)speedily enter this rest if he was already in that rest???

this is a question you have failed to answer--many contradictions arises in the way you are saying it.   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

didn't I already demonstrate how we made fall out of his rest?

[FreeAtLast]

didn't I already demonstrate how we made fall out of his rest?

so you are saying that Paul was in a fallen state is why he said let US  ????

[FreeAtLast]

didn't I already demonstrate how we made fall out of his rest?

also just what is the works we have ceased from ??  :dsunny:

[Seth]

the author of Hebrews was not suggesting that he was a  in a fallen state. The word us does not always have to mean that the person is referring to himself personally. That is a huge linguistic mistake that you are making. a basketball coach that says come on guys let's hustle doesn't mean that he himself is not hustling.However it is possible to fall from grace and have Christ avail nothing. It's not that I believe that the author of Hebrews had done that but neither do I believe that the word us must mean that he referred to himself personally.

[Seth]

didn't I already demonstrate how we made fall out of his rest?

also just what is the works we have ceased from ??  :dsunny:

we are to cease from our labors so that God can make us the workmanship of Christ and Christ can work through us instead so that we become the righteousness of Christ that is by faith.

[FreeAtLast]

the author of Hebrews was not suggesting that he was a  in a fallen state. The word us does not always have to mean that the person is referring to himself personally. That is a huge linguistic mistake that you are making. a basketball coach that says come on guys let's hustle doesn't mean that he himself is not hustling.However it is possible to fall from grace and have Christ avail nothing. It's not that I believe that the author of Hebrews had done that but neither do I believe that the word us must mean that he referred to himself personally.

For unto  US  was the gospel preached as well as unto them

was the gospel preached to paul // of course  the  US is all inclusive in the context of Hebrews 4   all the believers including paul himself  :dsunny: :dsunny: