Sin

[Seth]

Sometimes I don't love my neighbor, which is a sin. But rather than follow the moral codes to love my neighbor again, I repent to the Lord and the Lord cleanses my heart by the washing of the Spirit and inspires me to love again.

do you go by manmade laws and obey them ??  do you break the speed limit ???

Those Laws were not written by God himself. The one who authored the Law committed his own righteousness to written form. But that righteousness existed before the written from. Therefore if God inspires us to love, we don't need the written commandments to do it.

God predates the written word. Love existed before the Law of Moses. Therefore, Abraham was not lawless when he walked in obedience to God without the written word.

[FreeAtLast]

when somenes life depends on your'e getting to the hospital....the ambulance and police

  disregard the stopsigns and speed limits...the law gives way to love of life.

:iagree: :iagree:   with that totally but their is still a law present  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

Abraham without THE LAW ???

Genesis 26:5

Because that Abraham obeyed my voice,and kept my charge,my COMMANDMENTS,my STATUES,and my LAWS

Abraham had THE LAW and kept it according to scripture---just because yah didn't inform us before Moses time that he actually gave his LAW to his people---doesn't mean they didn't have it--scripture reveals this very same thing  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

He obeyed his VOICE. As I said, God wrote the Law, but he predates the written commandments. So by following God's voice, Abraham was conformed to love without needing written commandments.

[Seth]

when somenes life depends on your'e getting to the hospital....the ambulance and police

  disregard the stopsigns and speed limits...the law gives way to love of life.

:iagree: :iagree:   with that totally but their is still a law present  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

Not a written code. Inspiration of the Spirit. If the Spirit lives within you, you don't need a written code.

[FreeAtLast]

Sometimes I don't love my neighbor, which is a sin. But rather than follow the moral codes to love my neighbor again, I repent to the Lord and the Lord cleanses my heart by the washing of the Spirit and inspires me to love again.

do you go by manmade laws and obey them ??  do you break the speed limit ???

Those Laws were not written by God himself. The one who authored the Law committed his own righteousness to written form. But that righteousness existed before the written from. Therefore if God inspires us to love, we don't need the written commandments to do it.

God predates the written word. Love existed before the Law of Moses. Therefore, Abraham was not lawless when he walked in obedience to God without the written word.

side stepped the question brother   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

you do keep the speed limit because you don't want a ticket--if you break it--then you break the law

if this applies to the man mad laws--how much more does the Most High and his ways apply ??

[FreeAtLast]

Abraham without THE LAW ???

Genesis 26:5

Because that Abraham obeyed my voice,and kept my charge,my COMMANDMENTS,my STATUES,and my LAWS

Abraham had THE LAW and kept it according to scripture---just because yah didn't inform us before Moses time that he actually gave his LAW to his people---doesn't mean they didn't have it--scripture reveals this very same thing  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

brother the scripture says that he KEPT THE LAW    Commandments     statues     this is how he obeyed Yah voice--in that he kept THE LAW that was given unto him

we obey his voice also and obey what he has given unto us the same way  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

He obeyed his VOICE. As I said, God wrote the Law, but he predates the written commandments. So by following God's voice, Abraham was conformed to love without needing written commandments.

brother the scripture says that he KEPT THE LAW    Commandments     statues     this is how he obeyed Yah voice--in that he kept THE LAW that was given unto him

we obey his voice also and obey what he has given unto us the same way  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

side stepped the question brother

you do keep the speed limit because you don't want a ticket--if you break it--then you break the law

if this applies to the man mad laws--how much more does the Most High and his ways apply ??

Your question failed to recognize the difference between God and man, and therefore the difference between man made laws and God's laws. You cannot make a correlation between man and God without recognizing that God can live within us. The author of the speeding laws cannot live within us.

If the author of the law is able to live inside us, we don't need the written commandment, only inspiration of the author.

brother the scripture says that he KEPT THE LAW    Commandments     statues     this is how he obeyed Yah voice--in that he kept THE LAW that was given unto him

we obey his voice also and obey what he has given unto us the same way  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

We do that by inspiration of the Spirit, not by written codes. As I said, the Spirit will not steer us wrong. Abraham did not live by written codes, yet his actions were not lawless. The Law is only for the lawless, not for the obedient.

[FreeAtLast]

side stepped the question brother

you do keep the speed limit because you don't want a ticket--if you break it--then you break the law

if this applies to the man mad laws--how much more does the Most High and his ways apply ??

Your question failed to recognize the difference between God and man, and therefore the difference between man made laws and God's laws. You cannot make a correlation between man and God without recognizing that God can live within us. The author of the speeding laws cannot live within us.

If the author of the law is able to live inside us, we don't need the written commandment, only inspiration of the author.

brother the scripture says that he KEPT THE LAW    Commandments     statues     this is how he obeyed Yah voice--in that he kept THE LAW that was given unto him

we obey his voice also and obey what he has given unto us the same way  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

We do that by inspiration of the Spirit, not by written codes. As I said, the Spirit will not steer us wrong. Abraham did not live by written codes, yet his actions were not lawless. The Law is only for the lawless, not for the obedient.

I shall close our conversation with this comment straight from the written word  :dsunny:

Yah has put his LAWS into our minds and have written them in our hearts---my dear friend if you are of Yah--then you have the written codes in your mind  and written in your heart---and the Spirit leads you accordingly to that which is written in your heart(those codes you talk about)  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

I'll clarify further. I live under the written code of the speeding laws, because man cannot live within man. I don't live under the written codes of the Old Testament because God can live within me, making those written codes unnecessary for righteousness. Like I said, "I don't follow moral codes. The Spirit inspires me to love." God's written codes are only for the lawless, not the obedient, because those who follow the Spirit are not under the law. The Spirit guides their walk instead, without the law, and the author of the Law will not guide them wrongly.

God will inspire them to not covet, not murder, not to steal. That's not because they are under the written codes, but because they are inspired by the Spirit.

We might as well get to what you are really after. Does God inspire us to follow the Sabbath? I would say yes, in a spiritual way, just as with circumcision. The Sabbath is a shadow of the body of Christ, which is come as a reality to believers. Therefore, all believers who are in the body are automatically within the Sabbath at all times.

[sheila]

 1 Timothy 1;9  we know thatthe law is good if one uses it properly,we also know

  that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels. The ungodly

and sinful,the unholy and irreligious;for those who kill their fathers or mothers,for


murderers and adulterers and perverts,for slavetraders and liars and perjurors

and for whatever is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the glorious

gospel of the blessed God which he entrusted to me.


   see warning against false teachers of the law.   To the church in Ephesus/letter to

  ephesians.  there is a subtil differnce between the gospel and the teachers of the law

spoken of in the scriptures here.

       May the Lord Bless us to make these fine distinctions clear for all our edification

 

[FreeAtLast]

1 Timothy 1;9  we know thatthe law is good if one uses it properly,we also know

  that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels. The ungodly

and sinful,the unholy and irreligious;for those who kill their fathers or mothers,for


murderers and adulterers and perverts,for slavetraders and liars and perjurors

and for whatever is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the glorious

gospel of the blessed God which he entrusted to me.


   see warning against false teachers of the law.   To the church in Ephesus/letter to

  ephesians.  there is a subtil differnce between the gospel and the teachers of the law

spoken of in the scriptures here.

       May the Lord Bless us to make these fine distinctions clear for all our edification

Romans 3:10  As it is written,There is NONE righteous,NO,not one

The law was given because ALL were unrighteous   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

That's a bit of an oversimplification because Paul also taught that while we are not.righteousness of ourselves, we can be made righteous through faith, and inspiration of the Spirit rather than Law. Titus 2

[FreeAtLast]

1 Timothy 1;9  we know thatthe law is good if one uses it properly,we also know

  that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels. The ungodly

and sinful,the unholy and irreligious;for those who kill their fathers or mothers,for


murderers and adulterers and perverts,for slavetraders and liars and perjurors

and for whatever is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the glorious

gospel of the blessed God which he entrusted to me.


   see warning against false teachers of the law.   To the church in Ephesus/letter to

  ephesians.  there is a subtil differnce between the gospel and the teachers of the law

spoken of in the scriptures here.

       May the Lord Bless us to make these fine distinctions clear for all our edification

also--- :dsunny:

Under THE LAW says   thou shalt die
Grace says Thou shalt Live without the keeping of the Law

as paul explains--just because we are under grace and not under Law--doesn't give us the right to transgress that which is Holy and Good

Im a teacher of grace just like Paul was---But I don't do away with that which is Holy and Good because I shalt have life instead of death by grace---the spirit leads us to that lifestyle of Holiness and Righteousness   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

Again read Titus 2. Grace causes us to behave morally not the Law.

[joeteekay]

Yes LAW and THE LAW are completely different. Below is a post I made a few months ago:

God is the Creator of law.  Since all is of God (Rom. 11:36, I Cor. 8:6, I Cor. 11:12, 2Co 5:18) all laws are of God, both physical and spiritual.  Laws are required for the coherent functioning of the physical and spiritual realm.  However there are various aspects to the word LAW.

In the NT law has various aspects.  It is described as law. or the law or the law of...(i.e. the law of the husband). This is significant IMO.  I believe we have to consider why the Apostles, especially Paul and John sometimes refer to "law" and other times to "the law".  Are they indicating to us that there is a difference?  When we find just the word law (without the definite article) , it is referring to the universal law of God.  When we find "the law" (with the definite article) in the NT it usually is referring to the Law of Moses..  To see this distinction, one needs to use a translation based on the original writings such as the Concordant Literal version, Rotherham's Emphasized bible,  Young's Literal translation or the Emphatic Diaglott.  Widely used translations such as NKJV, AV, NIV, etc. do not make a distinction between law and the law.

Law always existed and therefore sin exists.  There never was a time when there was no law.  Adam and Eve sinned.  Sin is the transgression of law (the original does not have "the law" like popular translations).  When one reads the first chapter of Romans, it is evident that people transgressed God's universal Law (love) long before "the law" came into effect.

2Co 3:6  Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter (law of Moses), but of the spirit (God's universal law of love): for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2Co 3:7  But if the ministration of death (law of Moses), written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8  How shall not the ministration of the spirit (God's universal law of love) be rather glorious?
2Co 3:9  For if the ministration of condemnation  (law of Moses)be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness (God's universal law of love) exceed in glory.
2Co 3:10  For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect (law of Moses), by reason of the glory that excelleth.
2Co 3:11  For if that which is done away was glorious (law of Moses), much more that which remaineth (God's universal law of love) is glorious.

[Seth]

Good post.  :thumbsup:

Love has always existed, predating the Law of Moses, and therefore the righteousness OF the Law must be fulfilled in us. I would add that the Spirit isn't just a Law, but the living, sentient, all mighty God within us, the very author of righteousness, our guide. We talk about Christ within us, but sometimes I think the awesomeness of it gets lost in translation.

Titus 2
11 For the GRACE of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12 It teaches (paiduo - chastens) us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

So if Grace does all that, then what happens if we add the written codes?

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Context shows he is talking about the Law of Moses. What happens if you fall from grace? Then it will not teach you to say no to ungodliness. You will try to follow the law, but you will fail as with Romans 7. You will not be able to do the good you want to do, because you will have fallen from GRACE. You will be attempting to add your own righteousness, which is by the Law, to the righteousness of Christ within, which is of faith.

Nobody will be judged by God for not observing a weekly Sabbath, because we are not justified by Law. God will not punish the justified for not observing the law, because we are justified APART from the Law and conformed to the image of Christ by GRACE.

[sheila]

the only problem I can see with that,FAL, is the holy lifestyle[sabbath keeping/gathering]

  should cause someone to not use the law lawfully...and judge their brother of whom

  every day is esteemed the same] for it was His purpose to break down the wall of

  seperation between those born under law and the gentiles,as also partakers of His grace

and the free gift of eternal life. and for that reason the Holy spirit added nothing more

necessary then..abstaining frm idols,blood and fornication. So if  you condemned them

through that lawof the Sabbath./in effect murdering the innocent.and did not realize

that Christ was their Sabbath..you would be using the law unlawfully[sin] and also

be sinning in not obeying His commandment to judge not lest ye be judged..and sin

against His revealed will of making of the two/one new man in Christ..neither Greek or

jew or male/female etc......

  we all have our own personal preferences  and life-style,customs etc..and it can

  be a slippery slope when wego beyond what the Holy spirit declared necessary...

  for then it becomes doctrines of men.

  for ex; a religious denomination I was in declared I attend 5 meetings a week,go

  out in service at least 2 1/2 hours a week,conduct a personal bible study with my

child for at least one hour a week. study and read their literature before the meetings

  join a theocratic bible ministry school and do presentations of assignments unto

the congregation.

if you failed to do all of the above you were looked down on and esteemed as less.

  no holidays/b'days,thanksgiving,xmas,national holidays.

    when I cooked turkey and dressing[cause my husband insisted he wanted to eat it] I

was counseled...don't eat the meal with him..eat alone in the kitchen.....

    I have a real aversion to legalistic man made doctrines, I guess you can say I am

  very sensitive to them..as all this and more was heaped up on me..and become

  impossible to bear. I also worked full time,mowed the yard,housework,canning etc..

  no wonder I became physically ill under that load.

   Paul said that he knew certain men would come in and not treat the flock tenderly...

  and I got a good dose of that there.

   encourage to good works in the faith... give proper food at proper time,not beat as a

wicked servant does.       

                                                   :dsunny: