What does this word mean to you ?
Is there a clear bible definition to what Sin actually is ?
if you Sin what are you doing ?
1st John 3:4----is the true biblical definition of Sin
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also THE LAW,for SIN is the transgression of THE LAW(notice THE in front of LAW)
verse6--whosoever abideth in him sinneteth not(does not transgress THE LAW)whosoever sinneth(transgresses THE LAW)hath not seen him,neither known him.
if you keep reading down further it speaks even more.
this is what Sin is and the definition of it means to me---and what it meant to the new testament Church
So everytime you see the word Sin---you can put in its place (Transgression of THE LAW) :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
I agree with that definition. The great thing about following the Spirit for righteousness, rather than moral codes, is that the Spirit inspires love, and love does not transgress the Law.
Galatians 5
13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself." 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.
16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[c] you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
Quote from: Seth on August 26, 2014, 07:08:41 PM
I agree with that definition. The great thing about following the Spirit for righteousness, rather than moral codes, is that the Spirit inspires love, and love does not transgress the Law.
Galatians 5
13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. 14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself." 15 If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.
16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[c] you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
so you are saying that you actually keep THE LAW through LOVE ???
I am saying I don't keep moral codes, but the Spirit inspires me to love my neighbor.
Quote from: Seth on August 26, 2014, 07:24:26 PM
I am saying I don't keep moral codes, but the Spirit inspires me to love my neighbor.
Paul said in Romans 3:30-31 that we are justified through faith
Do we then make void THE LAW through faith ??? Yah forbid Yea we establish THE LAW
when you make void something it is done away(not of any use) Paul taught that the law was NOT made void(not done away with)through faith
But it is our Faith that THE LAW is established
it is very clear that John said if you transgress THE LAW(break it)then that is what Sin is
if you don't go out and steal from your neighbor--then you are establishing the law through faith--you are keeping it in LOVE
if you don't go out and commit adultery against your neighbor--you are establishing the law through faith--keeping it in LOVE
Shall I go on and on--it all keeps coming back to this LOVE is why we do what we do now and not because of Bondage of the law
the only thing that has changed is that it is through faith and LOVE that we do it now and not under bondage of THE LAW :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
of course being led by the Spirit to do so :dsunny: :dsunny:
QuotePaul said in Romans 3:30-31 that we are justified through faith
Do we then make void THE LAW through faith ??? Yah forbid Yea we establish THE LAW
when you make void something it is done away(not of any use) Paul taught that the law was NOT made void(not done away with)through faith
But it is our Faith that THE LAW is established
That's because faith brings the Holy Spirit. The Spirit inspires love and love does not transgress the Law. So, again, we don't follow moral codes. It's inspiration of the Spirit daily without being under the Law.
Quoteif you don't go out and steal from your neighbor--then you are establishing the law through faith--you are keeping it in LOVE
If you don't go out and steal from your neighbor, it is because the Spirit has inspired love in your heart, not because you follow moral codes. That is how the law is established without being under it.
If you didn't know how to read, and never knew the moral codes of the law of Moses, you could still establish the Law by inspiration of the Spirit without following moral codes, simply by being inspired to love your neighbor.
Love does not transgress the Law, but neither do you need to follow moral codes in order to love.
Quote from: Seth on August 26, 2014, 07:43:31 PM
If you didn't know how to read, and never knew the moral codes of the law of Moses, you could still establish the Law by inspiration of the Spirit without following moral codes, simply by being inspired to love your neighbor.
Love does not transgress the Law, but neither do you need to follow moral codes in order to love.
you are saying the same thing I am---but you don't want to admit it :dsunny: :dsunny:
its by LOVE--but you are still keeping THE LAW--although you are not doing it under the bondage of the law but by the Spirit who directs you to do so
Quoteyou are saying the same thing I am---but you don't want to admit it
its by LOVE--but you are still keeping THE LAW--although you are not doing it under the bondage of the law but by the Spirit who directs you to do so
No, I am saying something completely different. Love is not done by keeping the Law. Love is done by following the Spirit, but love happens to not transgress the Law.
You said "You don't know how to properly LOVE without guidelines" and that is where I completely disagree. You can properly love by inspiration of the Spirit. You don't need to follow written guidelines. If you do, then the inspiration of the Spirit is not enough for you. But it is for me.
Quote from: Seth on August 26, 2014, 07:51:57 PM
Quoteyou are saying the same thing I am---but you don't want to admit it
its by LOVE--but you are still keeping THE LAW--although you are not doing it under the bondage of the law but by the Spirit who directs you to do so
No, I am saying something completely different. Love is not done by keeping the Law. Love is done by following the Spirit, but love happens to not transgress the Law.
You said "You don't know how to properly LOVE without guidelines" and that is where I completely disagree. You can properly love by inspiration of the Spirit. You don't need to follow written guidelines. If you do, then the inspiration of the Spirit is not enough for you. But it is for me.
so if LOVE just happens to lead you to not break the law--its an accident ? that it does that ?
let me ask you a question-- are you grieved by that Spirit you speak of when you Sin ??
Quote from: Seth on August 26, 2014, 07:51:57 PM
Quoteyou are saying the same thing I am---but you don't want to admit it
its by LOVE--but you are still keeping THE LAW--although you are not doing it under the bondage of the law but by the Spirit who directs you to do so
No, I am saying something completely different. Love is not done by keeping the Law. Love is done by following the Spirit, but love happens to not transgress the Law.
You said "You don't know how to properly LOVE without guidelines" and that is where I completely disagree. You can properly love by inspiration of the Spirit. You don't need to follow written guidelines. If you do, then the inspiration of the Spirit is not enough for you. But it is for me.
and the way you make it sound is that we never needed the written word after the Spirit came in us ??? Did Yahshua say that to his disciples ??he told them to search the scriptures--the spirit will not lead you against the written word--if it does--you got an unholy spirit.
exactly Seth! Jesus was accused of breaking the Sabbath because He healed on the
sabbath...it is lawful to do good works of the Father on the Sabbath.
for the Sabbath was created for the benefit of man,not man for the benefit of the
Sabbath......it was unlawful to eat the bread of the presence unless you were a preist..
but when David and his men were hungered they ate it.
there is no law against love. GOD HAS DECLARED THAT PERFECT LOVE BE FREE
and not bound in any way,or by any commandment.
Jesus touched lepers to heal them..something unlawful for a high Preist......see
the parable of the good samaritan...and how the commandments on seperation
caused those bound by them to not show love.[sin spring up and kill love]
Perfect love keeps no account of the injury,no record of sin..it blots it out and
covers it with love..like a garment that clothes someones nakedness and shame and sin.
He said 'ye must be perfect as your'e heavenly Father is perfect." Jerusalem Above
the Free Woman is of which we must all be born again.
those who love are born of God.
Quoteso if LOVE just happens to lead you to not break the law--its an accident ? that it does that ?
Love doesn't lead anyone to break laws. You can't break a law you are not under. Love causes people to treat each other with respect and kindness and does not seek for itself. What Law could you break if do those things?
Quotelet me ask you a question-- are you grieved by that Spirit you speak of when you Sin ??
If I sin, the Spirit convicts my conscience, and returns me to love my neighbor. I am under the Spirit not the letter.
Quoteand the way you make it sound is that we never needed the written word after the Spirit came in us ??? Did Yahshua say that to his disciples ??he told them to search the scriptures--the spirit will not lead you against the written word--if it does--you got an unholy spirit.
I am not saying not to search scriptures. What I am saying is that you don't need the written word in order to be inspired by God to love your neighbor.
If you did, someone who couldn't read could never love. But if the Spirit inspired him to love, he could do it without the ability to read.
Quote from: Seth on August 26, 2014, 07:58:50 PM
Quoteso if LOVE just happens to lead you to not break the law--its an accident ? that it does that ?
Love doesn't lead anyone to break laws. You can't break a law you are not under. Love causes people to treat each other with respect and kindness and does not seek for itself. What Law could you break if do those things?
Quotelet me ask you a question-- are you grieved by that Spirit you speak of when you Sin ??
If I sin, the Spirit convicts my conscience, and returns me to love my neighbor. I am under the Spirit not the letter.
Quoteand the way you make it sound is that we never needed the written word after the Spirit came in us ??? Did Yahshua say that to his disciples ??he told them to search the scriptures--the spirit will not lead you against the written word--if it does--you got an unholy spirit.
I am not saying not to search scriptures. What I am saying is that you don't need the written word in order to be inspired by God to love your neighbor.
If you did, someone who couldn't read could never love. But if the Spirit inspired him to love, he could do it without the ability to read.
are you under any law ??
you always mention loving your neighbor---which is right :dsunny:
you never mention Loving Yah like Yahshua did at the same time he said to love your neighbor ???
why is this ?
I don't quite understand--Yahshua put them both together and you only use 1 of them ?
Quote from: sheila on August 26, 2014, 07:58:44 PM
exactly Seth! Jesus was accused of breaking the Sabbath because He healed on the
sabbath...it is lawful to do good works of the Father on the Sabbath.
for the Sabbath was created for the benefit of man,not man for the benefit of the
Sabbath......it was unlawful to eat the bread of the presence unless you were a preist..
but when David and his men were hungered they ate it.
there is no law against love. GOD HAS DECLARED THAT PERFECT LOVE BE FREE
and not bound in any way,or by any commandment.
Jesus touched lepers to heal them..something unlawful for a high Preist......see
the parable of the good samaritan...and how the commandments on seperation
caused those bound by them to not show love.[sin spring up and kill love]
Perfect love keeps no account of the injury,no record of sin..it blots it out and
covers it with love..like a garment that clothes someones nakedness and shame and sin.
He said 'ye must be perfect as your'e heavenly Father is perfect." Jerusalem Above
the Free Woman is of which we must all be born again.
those who love are born of God.
Amen Sheila,
The sabbath is a shadow of the body of Christ. Therefore those who are in the body of Christ can never break it.
Quoteare you under any law ??
I am not under any written moral codes.
Quote
you always mention loving your neighbor---which is right :dsunny:
you never mention Loving Yah like Yahshua did at the same time he said to love your neighbor ???
why is this ?
I don't quite understand--Yahshua put them both together and you only use 1 of them ?
The Spirit inspires us to love my neighbor and love God. Not because we are under written commandments. I only mention loving one's neighbor because Jesus equates loving him with feeding his sheep.
so do you ever commit Sin ??
Sometimes I don't love my neighbor, which is a sin. But rather than follow the moral codes to love my neighbor again, I repent to the Lord and the Lord cleanses my heart by the washing of the Spirit and inspires me to love again.
love covers sin..it doesn't try to expose it.....love love's your'e brother as yourself..
Joseph was considered right by God because he elected to nothold Mary up to public
shame for her perceived sin. Same with Japeth and Shem with Noah when he was
uncovered...Jesus said to the woman caught in the act of sin..woman,where are your'e
accusors? He had sent them away by revealing their hypocrisy to them[judge not lest
ye be judged] She said 'no man,Lord" He said 'neither do I accuse you...go and sin
no more" Under the law at the mouth of two or three wittness's a man was
condemned without mercy. Sacrifice and offerings I did not desire,but in mercy was my
delight.
Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
Deuteronomy 6:5 Thou shalt love Yah thy God with all thine heart,soul,might.
Taken directly from within the Law--both are corresponding to the keeping of ALL of his commandments,statues,Laws(10 commandments
in everything Yahshua ever said he quoted it from the old testament--just as the apostles done also.
whether youll receive it or not--these 2 LOVE commandments came directly from THE LAW
again--we do not do because we are under the law Bondage but under grace and the Spirit leads us into Righteousness :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
Quote from: Seth on August 26, 2014, 08:15:01 PM
Sometimes I don't love my neighbor, which is a sin. But rather than follow the moral codes to love my neighbor again, I repent to the Lord and the Lord cleanses my heart by the washing of the Spirit and inspires me to love again.
do you go by manmade laws and obey them ?? do you break the speed limit ???
You could not know that breaking the speed limit was without a sign to let you know the limit not to break
the spirit is gonna lead you according to the written word has already told you--through the written word is how the Spirit reveals truth--without the written word man would have nothing to be revealed unto him through the spirit--that's why Yah gave it and the Spirit unto us :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
Quote from: FreeAtLast on August 26, 2014, 08:24:38 PM
Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
Deuteronomy 6:5 Thou shalt love Yah thy God with all thine heart,soul,might.
Taken directly from within the Law--both are corresponding to the keeping of ALL of his commandments,statues,Laws(10 commandments
in everything Yahshua ever said he quoted it from the old testament--just as the apostles done also.
whether youll receive it or not--these 2 LOVE commandments came directly from THE LAW
again--we do not do because we are under the law Bondage but under grace and the Spirit leads us into Righteousness :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
They actually came from God himself, the Spirit, before they were written down. So, as I have been saying, without being under moral codes such as you have quoted, God inspires us to love. God does not steer us wrong. We can love without written codes.
Just as Abraham obeyed without the Law.
Genesis 3;21 and the Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and Eve,and
covered their nakedness....
when somenes life depends on your'e getting to the hospital....the ambulance and police
disregard the stopsigns and speed limits...the law gives way to love of life.
Quote from: Seth on August 26, 2014, 08:30:22 PM
Quote from: FreeAtLast on August 26, 2014, 08:24:38 PM
Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
Deuteronomy 6:5 Thou shalt love Yah thy God with all thine heart,soul,might.
Taken directly from within the Law--both are corresponding to the keeping of ALL of his commandments,statues,Laws(10 commandments
in everything Yahshua ever said he quoted it from the old testament--just as the apostles done also.
whether youll receive it or not--these 2 LOVE commandments came directly from THE LAW
again--we do not do because we are under the law Bondage but under grace and the Spirit leads us into Righteousness :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
They actually came from God himself, the Spirit, before they were written down. So, as I have been saying, without being under moral codes such as you have quoted, God inspires us to love. God does not steer us wrong. We can love without written codes.
Just as Abraham obeyed without the Law.
Abraham without THE LAW ???
Genesis 26:5
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice,and kept my charge,my COMMANDMENTS,my STATUES,and my LAWS
Abraham had THE LAW and kept it according to scripture---just because yah didn't inform us before Moses time that he actually gave his LAW to his people---doesn't mean they didn't have it--scripture reveals this very same thing :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
Quote from: FreeAtLast on August 26, 2014, 08:29:13 PM
Quote from: Seth on August 26, 2014, 08:15:01 PM
Sometimes I don't love my neighbor, which is a sin. But rather than follow the moral codes to love my neighbor again, I repent to the Lord and the Lord cleanses my heart by the washing of the Spirit and inspires me to love again.
do you go by manmade laws and obey them ?? do you break the speed limit ???
Those Laws were not written by God himself. The one who authored the Law committed his own righteousness to written form. But that righteousness existed before the written from. Therefore if God inspires us to love, we don't need the written commandments to do it.
God predates the written word. Love existed before the Law of Moses. Therefore, Abraham was not lawless when he walked in obedience to God without the written word.
Quote from: sheila on August 26, 2014, 08:36:44 PM
when somenes life depends on your'e getting to the hospital....the ambulance and police
disregard the stopsigns and speed limits...the law gives way to love of life.
:iagree: :iagree: with that totally but their is still a law present :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
Quote from: FreeAtLast on August 26, 2014, 08:37:04 PM
Abraham without THE LAW ???
Genesis 26:5
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice,and kept my charge,my COMMANDMENTS,my STATUES,and my LAWS
Abraham had THE LAW and kept it according to scripture---just because yah didn't inform us before Moses time that he actually gave his LAW to his people---doesn't mean they didn't have it--scripture reveals this very same thing :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
He obeyed his VOICE. As I said, God wrote the Law, but he predates the written commandments. So by following God's voice, Abraham was conformed to love without needing written commandments.
Quote from: FreeAtLast on August 26, 2014, 08:38:41 PM
Quote from: sheila on August 26, 2014, 08:36:44 PM
when somenes life depends on your'e getting to the hospital....the ambulance and police
disregard the stopsigns and speed limits...the law gives way to love of life.
:iagree: :iagree: with that totally but their is still a law present :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
Not a written code. Inspiration of the Spirit. If the Spirit lives within you, you don't need a written code.
Quote from: Seth on August 26, 2014, 08:37:46 PM
Quote from: FreeAtLast on August 26, 2014, 08:29:13 PM
Quote from: Seth on August 26, 2014, 08:15:01 PM
Sometimes I don't love my neighbor, which is a sin. But rather than follow the moral codes to love my neighbor again, I repent to the Lord and the Lord cleanses my heart by the washing of the Spirit and inspires me to love again.
do you go by manmade laws and obey them ?? do you break the speed limit ???
Those Laws were not written by God himself. The one who authored the Law committed his own righteousness to written form. But that righteousness existed before the written from. Therefore if God inspires us to love, we don't need the written commandments to do it.
God predates the written word. Love existed before the Law of Moses. Therefore, Abraham was not lawless when he walked in obedience to God without the written word.
side stepped the question brother :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
you do keep the speed limit because you don't want a ticket--if you break it--then you break the law
if this applies to the man mad laws--how much more does the Most High and his ways apply ??
Quote from: Seth on August 26, 2014, 08:39:09 PM
Quote from: FreeAtLast on August 26, 2014, 08:37:04 PM
Abraham without THE LAW ???
Genesis 26:5
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice,and kept my charge,my COMMANDMENTS,my STATUES,and my LAWS
Abraham had THE LAW and kept it according to scripture---just because yah didn't inform us before Moses time that he actually gave his LAW to his people---doesn't mean they didn't have it--scripture reveals this very same thing :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
brother the scripture says that he KEPT THE LAW Commandments statues this is how he obeyed Yah voice--in that he kept THE LAW that was given unto him
we obey his voice also and obey what he has given unto us the same way :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
He obeyed his VOICE. As I said, God wrote the Law, but he predates the written commandments. So by following God's voice, Abraham was conformed to love without needing written commandments.
brother the scripture says that he KEPT THE LAW Commandments statues this is how he obeyed Yah voice--in that he kept THE LAW that was given unto him
we obey his voice also and obey what he has given unto us the same way :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
Quoteside stepped the question brother
you do keep the speed limit because you don't want a ticket--if you break it--then you break the law
if this applies to the man mad laws--how much more does the Most High and his ways apply ??
Your question failed to recognize the difference between God and man, and therefore the difference between man made laws and God's laws. You cannot make a correlation between man and God without recognizing that God can live within us. The author of the speeding laws cannot live within us.
If the author of the law is able to live inside us, we don't need the written commandment, only inspiration of the author.
Quote from: FreeAtLast on August 26, 2014, 08:44:12 PM
brother the scripture says that he KEPT THE LAW Commandments statues this is how he obeyed Yah voice--in that he kept THE LAW that was given unto him
we obey his voice also and obey what he has given unto us the same way :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
We do that by inspiration of the Spirit, not by written codes. As I said, the Spirit will not steer us wrong. Abraham did not live by written codes, yet his actions were not lawless. The Law is only for the lawless, not for the obedient.
Quote from: Seth on August 26, 2014, 08:46:04 PM
Quoteside stepped the question brother
you do keep the speed limit because you don't want a ticket--if you break it--then you break the law
if this applies to the man mad laws--how much more does the Most High and his ways apply ??
Your question failed to recognize the difference between God and man, and therefore the difference between man made laws and God's laws. You cannot make a correlation between man and God without recognizing that God can live within us. The author of the speeding laws cannot live within us.
If the author of the law is able to live inside us, we don't need the written commandment, only inspiration of the author.
Quote from: FreeAtLast on August 26, 2014, 08:44:12 PM
brother the scripture says that he KEPT THE LAW Commandments statues this is how he obeyed Yah voice--in that he kept THE LAW that was given unto him
we obey his voice also and obey what he has given unto us the same way :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
We do that by inspiration of the Spirit, not by written codes. As I said, the Spirit will not steer us wrong. Abraham did not live by written codes, yet his actions were not lawless. The Law is only for the lawless, not for the obedient.
I shall close our conversation with this comment straight from the written word :dsunny:
Yah has put his LAWS into our minds and have written them in our hearts---my dear friend if you are of Yah--then you have the written codes in your mind and written in your heart---and the Spirit leads you accordingly to that which is written in your heart(those codes you talk about) :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
I'll clarify further. I live under the written code of the speeding laws, because man cannot live within man. I don't live under the written codes of the Old Testament because God can live within me, making those written codes unnecessary for righteousness. Like I said, "I don't follow moral codes. The Spirit inspires me to love." God's written codes are only for the lawless, not the obedient, because those who follow the Spirit are not under the law. The Spirit guides their walk instead, without the law, and the author of the Law will not guide them wrongly.
God will inspire them to not covet, not murder, not to steal. That's not because they are under the written codes, but because they are inspired by the Spirit.
We might as well get to what you are really after. Does God inspire us to follow the Sabbath? I would say yes, in a spiritual way, just as with circumcision. The Sabbath is a shadow of the body of Christ, which is come as a reality to believers. Therefore, all believers who are in the body are automatically within the Sabbath at all times.
1 Timothy 1;9 we know thatthe law is good if one uses it properly,we also know
that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels. The ungodly
and sinful,the unholy and irreligious;for those who kill their fathers or mothers,for
murderers and adulterers and perverts,for slavetraders and liars and perjurors
and for whatever is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the glorious
gospel of the blessed God which he entrusted to me.
see warning against false teachers of the law. To the church in Ephesus/letter to
ephesians. there is a subtil differnce between the gospel and the teachers of the law
spoken of in the scriptures here.
May the Lord Bless us to make these fine distinctions clear for all our edification
Quote from: sheila on August 26, 2014, 09:09:49 PM
1 Timothy 1;9 we know thatthe law is good if one uses it properly,we also know
that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels. The ungodly
and sinful,the unholy and irreligious;for those who kill their fathers or mothers,for
murderers and adulterers and perverts,for slavetraders and liars and perjurors
and for whatever is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the glorious
gospel of the blessed God which he entrusted to me.
see warning against false teachers of the law. To the church in Ephesus/letter to
ephesians. there is a subtil differnce between the gospel and the teachers of the law
spoken of in the scriptures here.
May the Lord Bless us to make these fine distinctions clear for all our edification
Romans 3:10 As it is written,There is NONE righteous,NO,not one
The law was given because ALL were unrighteous :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
That's a bit of an oversimplification because Paul also taught that while we are not.righteousness of ourselves, we can be made righteous through faith, and inspiration of the Spirit rather than Law. Titus 2
Quote from: sheila on August 26, 2014, 09:09:49 PM
1 Timothy 1;9 we know thatthe law is good if one uses it properly,we also know
that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels. The ungodly
and sinful,the unholy and irreligious;for those who kill their fathers or mothers,for
murderers and adulterers and perverts,for slavetraders and liars and perjurors
and for whatever is contrary to the sound doctrine that conforms to the glorious
gospel of the blessed God which he entrusted to me.
see warning against false teachers of the law. To the church in Ephesus/letter to
ephesians. there is a subtil differnce between the gospel and the teachers of the law
spoken of in the scriptures here.
May the Lord Bless us to make these fine distinctions clear for all our edification
also--- :dsunny:
Under THE LAW says thou shalt die
Grace says Thou shalt Live without the keeping of the Law
as paul explains--just because we are under grace and not under Law--doesn't give us the right to transgress that which is Holy and Good
Im a teacher of grace just like Paul was---But I don't do away with that which is Holy and Good because I shalt have life instead of death by grace---the spirit leads us to that lifestyle of Holiness and Righteousness :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:
Again read Titus 2. Grace causes us to behave morally not the Law.
Yes LAW and THE LAW are completely different. Below is a post I made a few months ago:Quote from: joeteekay on July 30, 2014, 09:05:14 PM
God is the Creator of law. Since all is of God (Rom. 11:36, I Cor. 8:6, I Cor. 11:12, 2Co 5:18) all laws are of God, both physical and spiritual. Laws are required for the coherent functioning of the physical and spiritual realm. However there are various aspects to the word LAW.
In the NT law has various aspects. It is described as law. or the law or the law of...(i.e. the law of the husband). This is significant IMO. I believe we have to consider why the Apostles, especially Paul and John sometimes refer to "law" and other times to "the law". Are they indicating to us that there is a difference? When we find just the word law (without the definite article) , it is referring to the universal law of God. When we find "the law" (with the definite article) in the NT it usually is referring to the Law of Moses.. To see this distinction, one needs to use a translation based on the original writings such as the Concordant Literal version, Rotherham's Emphasized bible, Young's Literal translation or the Emphatic Diaglott. Widely used translations such as NKJV, AV, NIV, etc. do not make a distinction between law and the law.
Law always existed and therefore sin exists. There never was a time when there was no law. Adam and Eve sinned. Sin is the transgression of law (the original does not have "the law" like popular translations). When one reads the first chapter of Romans, it is evident that people transgressed God's universal Law (love) long before "the law" came into effect.
2Co 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter (law of Moses), but of the spirit (God's universal law of love): for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
2Co 3:7 But if the ministration of death (law of Moses), written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
2Co 3:8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit (God's universal law of love) be rather glorious?
2Co 3:9 For if the ministration of condemnation (law of Moses)be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness (God's universal law of love) exceed in glory.
2Co 3:10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect (law of Moses), by reason of the glory that excelleth.
2Co 3:11 For if that which is done away was glorious (law of Moses), much more that which remaineth (God's universal law of love) is glorious.
Good post. :thumbsup:
Love has always existed, predating the Law of Moses, and therefore the righteousness OF the Law must be fulfilled in us. I would add that the Spirit isn't just a Law, but the living, sentient, all mighty God within us, the very author of righteousness, our guide. We talk about Christ within us, but sometimes I think the awesomeness of it gets lost in translation.
Titus 2
11 For the GRACE of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12 It teaches (paiduo - chastens) us to say "No" to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
So if Grace does all that, then what happens if we add the written codes?
Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Context shows he is talking about the Law of Moses. What happens if you fall from grace? Then it will not teach you to say no to ungodliness. You will try to follow the law, but you will fail as with Romans 7. You will not be able to do the good you want to do, because you will have fallen from GRACE. You will be attempting to add your own righteousness, which is by the Law, to the righteousness of Christ within, which is of faith.
Nobody will be judged by God for not observing a weekly Sabbath, because we are not justified by Law. God will not punish the justified for not observing the law, because we are justified APART from the Law and conformed to the image of Christ by GRACE.
the only problem I can see with that,FAL, is the holy lifestyle[sabbath keeping/gathering]
should cause someone to not use the law lawfully...and judge their brother of whom
every day is esteemed the same] for it was His purpose to break down the wall of
seperation between those born under law and the gentiles,as also partakers of His grace
and the free gift of eternal life. and for that reason the Holy spirit added nothing more
necessary then..abstaining frm idols,blood and fornication. So if you condemned them
through that lawof the Sabbath./in effect murdering the innocent.and did not realize
that Christ was their Sabbath..you would be using the law unlawfully[sin] and also
be sinning in not obeying His commandment to judge not lest ye be judged..and sin
against His revealed will of making of the two/one new man in Christ..neither Greek or
jew or male/female etc......
we all have our own personal preferences and life-style,customs etc..and it can
be a slippery slope when wego beyond what the Holy spirit declared necessary...
for then it becomes doctrines of men.
for ex; a religious denomination I was in declared I attend 5 meetings a week,go
out in service at least 2 1/2 hours a week,conduct a personal bible study with my
child for at least one hour a week. study and read their literature before the meetings
join a theocratic bible ministry school and do presentations of assignments unto
the congregation.
if you failed to do all of the above you were looked down on and esteemed as less.
no holidays/b'days,thanksgiving,xmas,national holidays.
when I cooked turkey and dressing[cause my husband insisted he wanted to eat it] I
was counseled...don't eat the meal with him..eat alone in the kitchen.....
I have a real aversion to legalistic man made doctrines, I guess you can say I am
very sensitive to them..as all this and more was heaped up on me..and become
impossible to bear. I also worked full time,mowed the yard,housework,canning etc..
no wonder I became physically ill under that load.
Paul said that he knew certain men would come in and not treat the flock tenderly...
and I got a good dose of that there.
encourage to good works in the faith... give proper food at proper time,not beat as a
wicked servant does.
:dsunny: