Rephaim

[joeteekay]

The Hebrew word Rephaim has been translated into various English words, depending on the opinion of the translators.  There is very little agreement amongst the translators as to the "best" translation.  From the Hebrew Bible Lexicon:

H7496 rapha rawfaw from H7495 in the sense of H7503 n m pl

According to Strong's Exhaustive Concordance we find:

Strong's H7496 from7495 in the sense of 7508; prop. lax, i.e. (fig.) a ghost (as dead); in plur. only): - dead, deceased.

Strong's H7495 a prim. root; prop. to mend (by stitching), i.e. (fig.) to  cure: -cure, (cause to) heal, phyician, repair, X thoroughly , make whole. See 7503.

Strong's H7503 a prim. root; to slacken (in many applications, lit. or fig.): - abate, cease, consume, draw [toward evening], fail. (be) faint, be (wax) feeble, forsake, idle, leave, let alone (go down), (be) slack, stay, be still, be slothful, (be) weak (-en). See 7495

Also  a definition from—Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
1) ghosts of the dead, shades, spirits.

It is clear that there is no agreement on this word by scholars. Translations like ghosts, shades, spirits, ghosts of the dead are inaccurate IMO. Look at how this word Hebrew word Rephaim (H7496) is used in scripture and how it may explain this thing called a soul and relatred to the Hebrew H5315- nephesh and the Greek-G5590 - psuche).

What happens to the soul at death? There are various opinions.  The more common idea is that the soul disappears at death.  The body disintegrates and returns to dust and the spirit in man returns to God who gave it.  Thus the soul no longer exists. Is this true?

Gen 2:7  end of verse ... and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living (H2416 - chay) soul (H5315 - nephesh ).

Look at the way this same word H5315 is used in Lev. 19:28,  21:1,  22:4 and in Num 5:2, 6:11 and 9: 6,7, 10. Can nephesh only be a living soul?  Well it seems it can also be a dead soul according to these scriptures.

Selecting one of these as an example :

Lev 21:1  (KJV) And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto the priests the sons of Aaron, and say unto them, There shall none be defiled for the dead among his people:

Lev 21:1  (CLV) Yahweh said to Moses:Speak to the priests, the sons of Aaron, and say to them:No one shall defile himself for a deceased soul among his kinsmen

A deceased soul is the same as a dead nephesh.  The other scriptures referred to in Lev. and Num. refer to nephesh as being dead. Therefore a soul (nephesh) can be either alive or dead.

Look at the word Rephaim!

Here are the scriptures in which rephaim is found. Job 26:5  Ps. 88:10  Prov. 2:18  Prov. 9:18  Prov. 21:16  Isa. 14:9  Isa. 26:19

Look at two: Ps 88:10 and Isa 26:19

Psa 88:10 (KJV)  Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead (H4191- mooth - most often used for the dead)? shall the dead (H7496 rephaim) arise and praise thee? Sela

Psa 88: 10 (Young's)  To the dead (H4191) dost Thou do wonders? Do Rephaim  (H7496) rise? do they thank Thee? Selah.

And in Isaiah:

Isa 26:19 (KJV) Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead (H7496).

Isaiah 26:19  (Rotherham's Emphasised)  Thy dead, shall come to life again, My dead body, they shall arise,—Awake and shout for joy, ye that dwell in the dust For, a dew of light, is thy dew, And, earth, to the shades (H7496) shall give birth.

Isa 26:19 (CLV)  Live shall your death-doomed! Their carcasses shall rise! Awake and jubilate, tabernaclers of the soil! For a night mist of lights is your night mist. And the land is causing the healers (H7496) to fall."

No real agreement here among various translations.  But could we not conclude that H7496 (rephaim) has a meaning connected with those who are dead and in hades (imperceptible).  Yes, some may argue that all this is allegorical or metaphorical.  Perhaps, but I think not IMO.

So the question comes up: why a resurrection of the dead? Resurrection of what? The dead!  Who are the dead?  Scripture tells us the dead shall be raised incorruptible.  The dead sleep.  So are the dead rephaim?

Dan 12:2  (KJV)  And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Dan 12:2  (CLV)  From those sleeping in the soil of the ground many shall awake, these to eonian life and these to reproach for eonian repulsion

And these New Testament scriptures collaborate those in the Old Testament.

I Pet 1:9 (KJV) Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Act_26:8  (KJV) Why should it be thought a thing incredible with you, that God should raise the dead?

Act 26:8  (CLV) Why is it being judged unbelievable by you, if God is rousing the dead?

1 Co_6:14  (KJV) And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.

1 Cor 6:14 (CLV)  Now God rouses the Lord also, and will be rousing us up through His power."

2Co_4:14 (KJV)  Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.

2 Cor 4:14  (CLV)  being aware that He Who rouses the Lord Jesus will be rousing us also, through Jesus, and will be presenting us together with you."

Eph_5:14  (KJV)  Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

Eph_5:14  "(CLV)  Wherefore He is saying, 'Rouse! O drowsy one, and rise from among the dead, and Christ shall dawn upon you!'

So can it be that rephaim means a deceased soul. IMO I think so.

[WhiteWings]

They are Nephlim offspring; so part of my reply is about Nephlim.

NEPHLIM

Ancient Hebrew had no vowels, only consonants.
The suffix "im" is how Hebrew writes plural. In the most ancient spelling that suffix was "m"  (no i/vowel)

Singular of ne-ph-l-m is ne-ph-l
The most ancient spelling of ne-ph-l   is  n-ph-l
The most ancient spelling of naphal     is n-ph-l
So sometimes it's argued nephlim is a 'modern' plural of the most ancient form of the word napal which means to fall.
That's the reason nephilim is quite often translated as "fallen ones", "the fallen", and similar.


Num 13:33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants
First giants:     ne-phy-l-m ==> Cannot mean fallen because it means to ancient root word is n-phy-l  and not n-ph-l  ==> "Giant"
Second giants: ne-ph  -l-m  ===> "To fall" or "giant"


So it can be reasoned the above verse can be translated in two ways:
a] Num 13:33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants
b] Num 13:33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the fallen ones

There is a grammatical problem with translation b].
While "to fall" is a possible translation for  ne-ph-l, "fallen" is not because of other Hebrew grammar rules.


Let's take "to pray" as an example.

- I pray
- He prays
- They are praying
- They prayed
- to pray
- The praying ones

The word "pray" morphs according to English grammar rules.
The last two examples are important for this discussion.
According to English grammar rules "The pray ones" is not correct and should be "The praying ones"
Similar rules apply to Hebrew. "Fallen ones" would be spelled as "nephulim"
Note the "u" instead of the "i".

So both occurrences of giant in Numbers 13:33 comply with the above grammar rule.



The first occurrence of giants complies with another grammar rule.

Only nephilim would be an adjective form of n-ph-l / naphal "fallen ones" can be a correct translation; but that causes problems elsewhere.
Let's look at the complete verse.
Num 13:33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

A regular human looks like a tiny grasshopper in the sight of a giant. But what would that comparison mean if the verse was translated as "fallen ones"?
That we are less or more fallen? That makes no sense...


Adding a little more context. The spies report the Nephlim are huge and (therefore) too strong to defeat. Just taking a look at regular sized humans doesn't show their fallen (spiritual) state. Great stature also is about size.
Num 13
30 And Caleb stilled the people before Moses, and said, Let us go up at once, and possess it; for we are well able to overcome it.
31 But the men that went up with him said, We be not able to go up against the people; for they are stronger than we.
32 And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched to the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eats up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature.
33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.


1 Enoch 15:1-12 Explains when a Nephlim dies his spirit leaves the body and becomes an "evil spirit" or "demon" that can't leave earth.


2Sam 5:18 The Philistines also came and spread themselves in the valley of Rephaim.

H7497
Rephaim
רפה  /  רפא
râphâ'  /  râphâh
BDB Definition:
1) giants, Rephaim
1a) old tribe of giants
Part of Speech: noun proper, of tribe, gentilic
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: from H7495 in the sense of invigorating
Same Word by TWOT Number: 2198d


Job 26
5 The shades/dead/spirits in the underworld are shaking; the waters and those living in them.
6 The underworld is uncovered before him, and Destruction has no veil.

Psalm 8:10 10 Will thou show wonders to the shades/dead/spirits? Shall those who are deceased arise and praise thee? Selah. (Did Jesus preach to the Rephaim?)

Isa 14:9 Sheol from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming; it stirreth up the shades/dead/spirits for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.



H7496




We also learn that these beings came down ―in the days of Jared and descended to Mount Hermon. The name Hermon (pronounced khermon in Hebrew), is formed from the Hebrew term kherem, which is a word that means ―destruction and is the Hebrew equivalent for Islam's jihad—―holy war.


these sites were all predominantly populated by descendants of the nephilim, the offspring of the unions of Genesis 6:1-4

Leviticus 27:28-29 But no devoted thing (kherem) that a man devotes (kharam, the verbal root) to the LORD, of anything that he has, whether man or beast, or of his inherited field, shall be sold or redeemed; every devoted thing (kherem) is most holy to the LORD. No one devoted (kherem), who is to be devoted for destruction (kharam) from mankind, shall be ransomed; he shall surely be put to death


The idea of kherem was that everything designated as put under kherem was to be treated as a sacrifice to Yahweh—to be utterly destroyed and burned.

The most ancient non consonant spelling of kherem is kh-r-m.
Geographical names usually have a "n" prefix.
kh-r-m-n is the non consonant spelling of Mount Hermon



Dead
רפא
râphâ'
BDB Definition:
1) ghosts of the dead, shades, spirits
Part of Speech: noun masculine plural
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: from H7495 in the sense of H7503
Same Word by TWOT Number: 2198c


-   Og = Rephaim (Deut 3:11)
-   Emim = Anakim sized Rephaim. Zamzummins are giants.  (Deut 2:8-30)
-   Anakim are Nephlim decendants  (Number 13:25:33)
-   There is a link between Mt Hermon and the Rephaim (Joshua 12:1-5)
-   Amorites were very tall  (Amos 2:9-10)
-   Shades/dead/spirits are deceased Rephaim




Rephaim lived in Ashtaroh and Edrei. Those cities are located in the Bashan region which in Ugaritic is called Bathan. Bathan in Ugaratic and Hebrew means "serpent".
Bashan was commonly known as place of the serpent. In Ugaric literature that Raphaim are called kings and gods. The most ancient Hebrew had only constonants and spelled kings as mlkm. In Ugarit mlkm had the meaning of Milkom=Molech.
The mlkm were considered gods of the underworld. (Hades is the Greek god of the underworld. Hivites in the most old spelling also has a meaning similar to snake.

Gehenna=Ge-Hinnom=Valley of Hinnom = Valley of wailing (baby sacrifices)
Joshua 15:8 shows the land of the Rephaim overlaps Gehenna.
The Valley of the Rephaim lies between Jerusalem and Bethlehem. Its northern end opens into the Valley of Hinnom (Gehenna), which is immediately south of Jerusalem.

[eaglesway]

Where is the connection between Nephiim and Rephaim making them the same? I see that in Numbers 13:33 that the word is the same, so I agree, I don't see it as fallen ones......same words and no contextual impetus to give them two different meanings in one sentence....giants, sons of giants.

[eaglesway]

Also I wonder if the name(Rephaim) comes from their practices. In other words, we know from the scriptures that the Nephilim were literal giants. But since the valley of Rephaim borders Gehinnom and we know from Chronicles/Kings that it was there that the Israelites burned children for Molech/Milcom, perhaps it was a tribal name given the people Israel drew this practice from. Sometimes the metaphorical name, like calling someone a devil, because of their wicked deeds, doesnt mean that they were an actual devil....but it also doesnt mean, because the name was applied metaphorically to that person, that there are no real devils. Looking back through eons at a few sentences it is hard to tell. For instance, the Nephilim were called "mighty men of renown" in one version but in another they are called the mighty men "of old". In Hebrew they were "mighty men olam", olam being the word for beyond the horizon; the inference being(perhaps) that they are barely seen through the veil of antiquity.

Josiah turned the valley of ge hinnom into a dump, a place of perpetual burning of detestable things like the dead bodies of animals, when he went in a broke down the pillars to Ashtaroth and the altars of Molech(i think, from memory it seems).

Perhaps they were named Rephaim, or "Shades" because they would come in the nght and steal children for their fires.

Interesting that Jesus uses similar imagery speaking of the Pharisees who "covered land and sea" to make a proselyte just to make them twice the "child of geenes" or gehenna as themselves. This had to be the worst insult possible to them, because it brought in all the metaphors and literal history of the horrible practices of the israelites as they bowed down to Milcom and walked in the ways of the Rephaim.

I found a connection between Rephaim and Nephilim in Deut 2:10, where it says the Anakim(sons of Anak, Nephilim Numbers 13) were "regarded as Rephaim".

Interesting stuff.

[eaglesway]

There is a prophecy of what Josiah did in Ge Hinnom in 1 Kings 13:2. Seems Jereboam was the one who brought this evil practice into Israel and Mannaseh revived it after Hezekiah died. The prophecy is fulfilled in 2 kings chapter 23, and Gehenna was born as a place of "perpetual burning", a toxic materials depository :o)

[WhiteWings]

There is no direct link/verse. But there are several hints.
For example they are all giants.
Emim are Rephaim. Both are the size of Anakim.
Anakim are Nephlim descendants.  A tribe (that's perhaps no longer pure blood Nephlim)
The Bible clearly writes about sons of God mating with humans. That's directly linked to giants. Does that mean there can't be other giants from another source? In theory there can be 100's of events that produced giants, but wasn't written down in the Bible.

Sometimes things have to be assumed. Otherwise, we can just as well start doubting that King Ogg was a giant. We are only told his iron bed was 6x13 feet. Maybe Ogg was a midget that just loved to have a lot of teddy bears with him in bed. :winkgrin:

Also keep in mind, we are told the Nephlim also existed after the flood. But I can't find no after-the-flood verse directly using Nephlim.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: My  :2c:.....souls are "shades" just like a bushel basket hides the light of a candle. The soul is the "shade" of the Christ spirit within, the darkness/field He is hidden in. The Word says He hides Himself in thick darkness, and He makes darkness His pavilions (same word translated as tabernacles elsewhere).

If you apply that thought of the basket to Matt. 13, the parable of the wheat and the tares, the removing out of His Kingdom (in us, the shade) of all things that do iniquity, is as taking a "stave" of a bushel basket off at a time. If you continued in this endeavor (pick up your cross daily), eventually you would have to come to the end of the staves, and then mortality (shade) would be swallowed up of light/immortality.

The end of Matt. 13 describes the end of the process of the angels (messages or messengers) removing the "staves" this way...."and then shall the sun of righteousness arise with healing in His wings". Wings here is a reference to the braided cords on the High Priest's garment, which marks it as the ministry of Melchisedek being formed.

The word anti-Christ literally means "against" Christ. They are literally against, as in covering up next to, Christ in us. We are the GRAVE He is wanting to resurrect up out of, and we don't have to die physically for Him to do it. Romans 8 talks about His manifestation or unveiling in us.

The carnal mind is the HEAD-STONE (stony heart enmity against God) that "marks" the place where we lay, because it has our name/nature on it. The mark in the forehead we are to receive is the mind of Christ (the WHITE STONE = law fulfilled taking the darkness/death out of it/the alabaster box), which is the receiving of HIS name/nature, with the accompanying proof of an everlasting life/anointing.

There is no true life apart from Christ, which is what Him breathing into his nostrils designated. The Hebrew word for living in Genesis, as in Adam became a living soul, comes from root words that mean, flowing water, to breathe, preserve alive, quicken, refresh.

And so we read in the NT that "times of refreshing" shall come, literally, we receive more of the breath of life into our souls, with every inspiration, which is how we are translated out of the kingdom of darkness/carnal mind/soulish life, and into the kingdom of light/mind of Christ/Spirit breathed life. This is why it says we are changed from (lesser) glory (soulish/terrestrial) to (greater) glory (spiritual/celestial).

But because God's Spirit will not tarry with man always, and we keep falling short of the completed glory of God, we die, which is the "divorce" of soul and spirit. The Word is the double edged sword of the Spirit, it both kills (the flesh) and makes alive (quickens the spirit). My  :2c: Blessings....

[Cardinal]

Also keep in mind, we are told the Nephlim also existed after the flood. But I can't find no after-the-flood verse directly using Nephlim.

:cloud9: How about the angels reserved in chains of darkness in Jude? I see them there, and I see them as having been released already. My  :2c: Blessings....

[eaglesway]

numbers 13:33

[eaglesway]

A soul in the dark, in death, is a shade. A soul in the light is a lamp. (get it ?:laughing7:)

[eaglesway]

But dey is both souls no matter what you call em :o)

[WhiteWings]

Also keep in mind, we are told the Nephlim also existed after the flood. But I can't find no after-the-flood verse directly using Nephlim.

:cloud9: How about the angels reserved in chains of darkness in Jude? I see them there, and I see them as having been released already. My  :2c: Blessings....

Actually, imo, there is a (linguistic) link between them and the locusts from Revelation.
Would make sense. All was fine in Eden. Then things went downhill because of Nephlim. God flooded the place to get rid of them; but according to His own words, not all of them.  They surface again when scouting the land, Joshua's battles and likely as Goliath. Then finally in Revelation God starts weeding them out of the garden  :winkgrin:

The angels of Jude are locked up. In Rev an angel (I think it's Abaddon/Hades) gets the key to release them. That's Judgement day. Nephlim flooding the earth like it was in the day of Noah.

[eaglesway]

ewww, yuck!

[eaglesway]

Glad we're all gonna get Raptured before that happens  :laughing7:

[WhiteWings]

But dey is both souls no matter what you call em :o)

Depends.....

There are 3 spellings of life.
Two of the spellings have God involved (Man and animal)
The third spelling not.
So while they both may be souls, they may not be so from a Biblical perspective.

[eaglesway]

I was only speaking within the parameters of human souls ;o)

[Cardinal]

A soul in the dark, in death, is a shade. A soul in the light is a lamp. (get it ?:laughing7:)

:cloud9: Yeah, I think so.....? A light in the soul is a lamp, just like the earthen pitchers with torches in them.

[Cardinal]

Glad we're all gonna get Raptured before that happens  :laughing7:

:cloud9: Hey, remember, it says as it was in the days of Noah. In Noah's day, only the wicked left the earth.  :Pray:  :laughing7:

[eaglesway]

Don't put no shade over your lamp, or somethin like that :o)

[eaglesway]

Glad we're all gonna get Raptured before that happens  :laughing7:

:cloud9: Hey, remember, it says as it was in the days of Noah. In Noah's day, only the wicked left the earth.  :Pray:  :laughing7:

And they didnt realize it until the ark was closed and they were all taken away. Wow, I just saw somethin.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I'm listening.... :Chinscratch: :winkgrin:

[eaglesway]

On the Day you die, lil virgin, you might want to have your Lamp full, cause the door is gonna close and you wanna find your way there before it does.

The ark is closed when we depart this life. Aint no re-incarnation. If you dint come in, get under the blood, kolassis awaits. Tares get carried away in death, wheat gets gathered into the garner.

If you are under the blood, don't be hangin out judgin, lazin around, not payin attention(to the prophetic word like a lamp shinin in a dark place), or you might get locked out and carried away too ;o)


God, come get these tares outta here, PLEASE! LOL

No son, not till the harvest ;o)

Today if you hear His voice, harden not your heart, Today is the Day of salvation.

[eaglesway]

Death allows the tares to be gathered and burned. Death is the harvest. Like we were talking about with your vision and my theory. Every one wakes up in the day. For those who die daily, there will be no need to gather tares for burning. For those who hide from death, the tares are growing strong and tall, waiting for the harvest.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Yes Amen! Death is what brings about the resurrection, and the resurrection is the harvest! It's the double edged sword. It is given unto to man ONCE to die, and then the judgment. Die to self, and the curses of the Egyptians will not be added to you, INCLUDING the death of the firstborn son. FIRST BORN of the FLESH, then born of the Spirit. Blessings....

[eaglesway]

We can't imagine people burning their babies, but we carry them to the dump in bags before they are born by the millions, Lord have mercy on our nation. Josiah burned the bones of the priest and ground them into powder upon the ruins of the altars of the Rephaim.