1 Cor. 14:34-35 Yes or No?

[eaglesway]

I would agree that if a nation or a people fights wars to promote some religious version of Christianity, or seeks in anyway to coerce people into "the truth" they are not in the full truth. However, I do not think this supports the larger framework of reasoning you hang on it concerning the OT. Jesus quoted the prophets of the OT continuosly. What He expressed to the rulers of Israel and the preisthood of Israel was that they DID NOT UNDErSTAND the law and the prophets, or honestly seek to fulfill the Word of God through them. In no place did He indicate that the words of the prophets were not of God.

As you stated, in that age, God was training the child. Jesus said this as well. "Moses gave you divorce for the hardness of your hearts, but I say....."

Certainly there are still children today. Paul clearly speaks to carnal "babes". Paul also continually quotes the OT in order to make his point clear AND TO PROVIDE THE CONTINUITY OF REVELATION FROM THE OT TO THE NT.

Again, as I said previously, OT and NT are designations of man.

Jesus speaks, in fact, of the prophets and how Israel killed the prophets, "from righteous Abel to Zechariah whom you slew between the porch and the altar".

Some of your conclusions about sonship are correct, but the disconect here is your opinion of the scriptures of the prophets, which is incorrect.

[donken]

I would agree that if a nation or a people fights wars to promote some religious version of Christianity, or seeks in anyway to coerce people into "the truth" they are not in the full truth. However, I do not think this supports the larger framework of reasoning you hang on it concerning the OT. Jesus quoted the prophets of the OT continuosly. What He expressed to the rulers of Israel and the preisthood of Israel was that they DID NOT UNDErSTAND the law and the prophets, or honestly seek to fulfill the Word of God through them. In no place did He indicate that the words of the prophets were not of God.

As you stated, in that age, God was training the child. Jesus said this as well. "Moses gave you divorce for the hardness of your hearts, but I say....."

Certainly there are still children today. Paul clearly speaks to carnal "babes". Paul also continually quotes the OT in order to make his point clear AND TO PROVIDE THE CONTINUITY OF REVELATION FROM THE OT TO THE NT.

Again, as I said previously, OT and NT are designations of man.

Jesus speaks, in fact, of the prophets and how Israel killed the prophets, "from righteous Abel to Zechariah whom you slew between the porch and the altar".

Hi.  I think there may be a misunderstanding about what I am saying.  I am not saying the whole O.T. is not credible.  What I am saying is the the O.T. has works of the flesh in it and works of the Spirit in it, all attributed and believed by all men of olden times to be GOD's spirit entirely.The evil done in the O.T. was believed to be okay and a witness of God's Spirit by Moses and the prophets and all Israel and pretty will all Christianity until lately.  The O.T. is both flesh and spirit in nature and in works and in belief and in understanding.

The very fact that you quoted the idea that Moses gave Divorce BUT JESUS said something different, implying that what Moses taught all believed about God was NOT OF GOD.  Moses "gave", not God said.  The old testament is divided by the witness of Jesus Christ.  The things in the O.T. and all like deeds that caused Jesus' death in being fulfilled are of the flesh, the prince of this world that Jesus said was coming and had NOTHING IN HIM.  The good only is of God, and the evil and the scriptures that speak of anything like that happened to Jesus in crucifying or "maiming and killing" Him is of the "devil" or sin and is not of the Holiness of God.  Divide the scriptures we are told.  Good, life, blessing are all of one spirit.  Death, cursing, evil are all of a DIFFERENT SPIRIT THAN GOD.

Jesus abolished the enmity on the cross we are told.  The enmity is the lusts of the flesh, which are the spirit of war, killing, robbery, pride, etc.  He did not allow any lusts of the flesh be witnessed in Him through his affliction and death on the cross.  They are divided out, what we need to have circumcised OUT of our Heart.

Jesus said you have heard it said an eye for an eye, but I say unto you you do not resist evil {in doing so}.  The evil that needs to be resisted is IN US, as the enmity against God's Spirit that is in man automatically at birth because of being "short of the glory of God".   You know no baby can ever be the glory of God as a baby and the baby has to GROW INTO that likeness with God as the father in due time.

Jesus is saying eye for eye in the manner of men is NOT OF GOD, not like GOD, etc.  Not of the Spirit of Eternal Life at all.

If we do not "hear" this, we are still going to be spiritually blind.   God deals with the seeing. {understanding correctly}.  Here is Jesus' own words.  Joh_6:32  Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, **Moses gave you not that bread from heaven;*** but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

The implication, clearly, is that the TRUE BREAD is not what Moses {and Israel and all the prophets} gave.  Just as today when the bible is read and there is difference of opinion about what is meant, it is OPINION of the "speaker or writer" that is being given.  The people of the old testament thought everything that happened was done by God or of God's Spirit and desire.  God stones the "sinner" with a spiritual stone, Christ.  He does not kill anyone or cause the death of anyone by HIS SPIRIT.  The "enemy" is death, is it not.  It is to be abolished, is it not?  Well, there is nothing that is of the eternal spirit that is abolished, spirit without end. 
,Joh_6:32  Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
Joh_6:33  For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Joh_6:41  The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
Joh_6:50  This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
Joh_6:51  I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
Joh_6:58  This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
Joh_6:33  For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Joh_6:41  The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
Joh_6:50  This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
Joh_6:51  I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
Joh_6:58  This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

donken

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Just taking another stab at this.....correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears to me, at least, that what you are saying is that the things that YOU view as evil in the OT are not of the Spirit of God, even if it says God did them.

The cross is the most evil thing imaginable, yet God said if the enemy had known what He was doing with it, he would not have crucified the King of glory.

And Caiaphas the High Priest, a man born under the "evil law" it was noted PROPHESIED THROUGH THE HOLY GHOST, pertaining to the death of Jesus being needful. It seems to me that God had no problem doing what He wanted with who He wanted, from Aleph to Tav, even if it in the APPEARANCE realm, looks evil. But He uses ALL THINGS, including evil, for good for those that love the Lord. As the cross proved, He is also the only one who can use evil to destroy evil.

God was of a truth totally in control as all the OT witnesses prove such as Moses who God told to throw down his rod, with Moses fully knowing that his rod had his generations inscribed on it all the way back to Adam, who came from God, meaning that He had him to throw down his authority as a firstfruits (in pattern as the firstfruits IS the Christ, the ROD/upright of God), and as such his life, just like the Son of God did to become a man hanging on a tree.

Moses did it in faith, and as a result of taking on the image of sinful flesh (cursed is everyone that hangs upon a tree) the evil and death became subject to him, ie. mortality was swallowed up of life.

Without this "faith with works" action of Moses, he would not have been able to be used of God for the rest of the mighty things He did through him, without the very same judgments touching him (for he needed Christ to be his covering also and Christ "appeared" and showed him the pattern). We know that if we die with Him, we shall also be raised with Him..... and, that we must first be humbled before we can receive.

Now tell me how God CANNOT be in control of that situation that unfolded or do you really believe Moses just "happened" by the spirit of man to walk out the pattern? I tell you again, you give the spirit of man WAY too much credit, IMO. Blessings.....

[donken]

Hello Cardinal.  You said...    Just taking another stab at this.....correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears to me, at least, that what you are saying is that the things that YOU view as evil in the OT are not of the Spirit of God, even if it says God did them.****

Yes, that is correct. What we get is the very same thing we get here on the forum and from different denominations in Christianity.  We get the belief of the writer\speaker, period.  No one writes what they do not believe the meanings are or should be, if they are sincere and all we get from scripture and pastors etc. is what THEY believe.  Same with the scriptures.  The O.T. believers, and Christians "in the night" that came and is now over thought God did everything and was in control of all things.  Therefore, anything done must have been done by God, they thought.  they also walked\lived this way and believed this way.

Ecclesiastes says time and chance happen to all.  "IF" one believes this is scripture, then we have to conclude I beieve, that nothing can happen "by chance" if God was really ruling.  In fact we know that we are waiting for the Kingdom of Christ to "appear" and be alive or in existence in the world, so it is not yet in dominion.  Ie.. it is AFTER he comes that we will know the truth {true light}.  He is here as a thief in our night, already.

Re your comment **if the enemy knew what he was doing he would not crucify Jesus, as you stated in your post to me. 

The wisdom of God IN ONE is what causes one to not crucify Jesus TO THEMSELVES any longer, 1 Corinthians 2:8.ff    If the princes of this world had known the wisdom of GOD they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.  The same thing can be said for us as Christians.  Simply because of all our differences of opinion we can understand we do not know the full wisdom of God either.  WE are the ones who crucify Jesus to ourselves AFRESH, as Heb. 6:6 implies, by being a false witness about Jesus at some times and saying we are Christian witnesses etc.   This is why we need to be corrected or made correct\perfected BY GOD as HIS SON that he raises sort of like a human parent raised their children.  The inside is to be made clean in this period of time, and like the days of Noah, we are not really believing it is now coming like a FLOOD, the flood of the spirit poured upon us from on high. 

Also, we can see that it is the "princes of this world" that crucified Jesus by that statement in Corinthians.  And, if one considers Satan the enemy, then if he knew the wisdom of GOD would he not have done it.  So, we can say, Satan obviously DOES NOT KNOW GOD. Of course, that would only be if each one of us thought or thinks or believes that Satan is a prince or the prince of this world.   Jesus did say, the prince of this world comes and has nothing in me.

But who slew Jesus was men doing what they believed God would do or wants.

Isa_7:15  Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
Isa_7:16  For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.

I think we can agree that there is an evil to be refused and a good to be chosen... by us.  And, we are to do that in believing about God also.  Do that in our mind and in dividing the scriptures properly and we will find God, removed from all the evil.   Anything done or threatened to be done in the old testament that you would find evil to you if done to you, no matter whether you "deserved it" or not, you can accept as the work of "SATAN", the prince of this world and not the works of the Spirit of God.  As to the prince of this world, who did God allow to have dominion?  Let THEM have dominion, speaking of natural mankind, the child. 
Ecc_10:16  Woe to thee, O land, when thy king is a child, and thy princes eat in the morning!

Moses believed in war and killing men as being "okay", and he was a faithful man.  Faithful to what HE believed at the time, and the only thing he really knew at the time.  There is absolutely no condemnation in me about anyone or any revered scripture person, but they were not mature and could not be mature at that time, just like a 5 year old child can not be mature when he is five.  He just does not know enough to understand things clearly.  Today we do, all of us in the western nations at least.  Moses did what he believed in "faith" yes, but not in the truth about GOD.   Scripture also says that if they follow the angel they follow {spirit of Moses} God will eventually SEND THEN HIS ANGEL to lead them into the promises, later.

Exo_23:20  Behold, I send ***an*** Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
Exo_23:23  For **mine** Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.

Deu_18:15  The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
Act_3:22  For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. 

Hear that other prophet in ALL or everything HE says.  Anything different that Jesus says from what Moses and the prophets say, is to be "a cast away" now.
So, we can ask, what need was there for another "prophet" if Moses' witness was the final true one.  Who is the first man???

Moses did not give us the true bread from heaven Jesus said.
God bless, donken

[eaglesway]

I agree that Moses did not give us the bread from heaven, as would anyone on the forum I think. This does not mean, however, that the OT is the word of man.

It is the word of God and the "bread of heaven"- Jesus, illuminated it, incorporated it, and transcended it.

[donken]

Hello Cardinal.   I have to go out right now so I will {hopefully} reply to more of your post later.  You have to say that these things and posts definitely bring a firestorm of quick activity.

I hope you went to some churches in times past that were perhaps pentecostal, believed in tongues and or prophecy, and so on.  All in those churches believe they are baptized with the Spirit and so on, and I am not saying they are not.  I am saying that you may know that many many things were prophesied to people and events were prophesied and words of knowledge and so on.  Many were also bogus, well intentioned and believed, but carnal minded.  I am not saying that the scriptures are not valid, what I am saying is that the Spirit of understanding them IS NOT CORRECT.  Even the prophets only understood according to their own spirit, worldly. 

Even the high priest in Jesus' day and Saul are said to have "prophesied"  It does not mean they knew what the words meant TO GOD, only what they meant to them according to their worldly spirited understanding.  The O.T. figures were CARNAL and understood carnally or naturally.  That is what I am saying.

We need to understand the scripture according to how the spirit of life, eternal life, fulfills them all.  The words then have a different meaning and application entirely, the words about destruction are no longer believed or understood as being physical at all.  The "hidden manna" is the spiritual life producing understanding of ALL the words.

Thanks for your patience with something you obviously do not care to listen to, perhaps.  {in the day of the Lord we are able to see things by THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD, Jesus Christ.} Any other understanding of the words than what Jesus witnessed is carnal, and we are not "believing" Jesus, as in ONLY JESUS is the way.
God bless.  Ken.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Hi donken.....it's not that I don't care to listen to it. I am ALWAYS listening for His Spirit to quicken anything in every post that comes across here. I have said it before and I'll say it again. I don't read to learn, I read to HEAR.

For me the key is hearing, and keeping myself open to receive WHAT I HEAR BY THE SPIRIT. It's what He plants the hearing ear, FOR.

I personally don't have any pet cows I'm not willing to slaughter, and turn on a dime, in a HEARTBEAT, if I HEAR His voice quicken something to me, it's time for a BBQ as far as I'm concerned. I've had several full blown Texas-size BBQ's over the years.  :laughing7:

So don't take it personally if I disagree with you, but until I HEAR differently, that which I have, I hang onto until the AUTHOR revises whats been written in "this edition" over here.  :laughing7: Blessings.....

[donken]

Hello Cardinal.  Thanks for your reply.   And I never really take anything personally.  The way I believe right now is the exact same way I believed for the last forty or more years but it was not able to be received at all by anyone "if" I tried to share it.  In fact, God finally told me some years ago that I"must" be quiet.

That is now changed, just in the last 6 o 7 months.  That does not mean there is a lot of agreement with the "spirit" or "way" that I see\beleive.  But I do know where "everything" i believe comes from.  I was also given to understand to not go to church or read anyone else's books.  Of course, that was removed many years ago when I had already had what I have been given established and permanent.  What I mean is everything I accept\receive is an expansion of what I already had initially been given to believe.  And I share also that it has nothing to do with my intelligence or goodness or the like.  I also am not saying this to try to get anyone to agree or believe what I share of "in me".    I share it to hopefully show why it is not very likely to be able to change my mind if I was uncertain about anything anyway because all I know came out from within me.  The only thing left for anyone who may think that it did come from within me is that they may say it is not God but the other guy.   I understand this.

But that is why I say we are to follow the Spirit but it helps greatly to understand or believe "what the Spirit is really like" so we can discern between our own old man mind and the new mind we are to have established in us, single of eye, seeing everything from the viewpoint of LIFE, and yet see TWO differing things, natural man and God.

As you know, I am sure, Christianity, especially in positions of power in the kingdoms of men {the beast dominion... being both good at times and carnal at times} are hardly real Christ like Christians.  We have a system that says government of the people, for the people, by the people, but we do not really have that government at all.  We may have a government of a group voted on by the people once every so many years, but then the people elected get in and do whatever they want, and many many things we never wanted or voted on ourselves become laws.  They are also very unChristian, as well as large faceless corporations with billlions of dollars that all came from the public to them, and are greedy, proud, selfish, etc.  Need I say more.  GOD MUST JUDGE US.   That is the only way we will ever be "changed" to be Chrsit LIKE in maturity, our bodies being Jesus and the Spirit of Life in us being THE FATHER IN US that we will always do what we see with HIM, the Spirit that gives life.

An earthquake, for instance, spiritually applied and understood, is a dividing of the things in the world FOR US.  The things of goodness in we who are in the world and the things of evil that are in we who are in the world also.   Good divided from evil.  This does and must take place here in the world {dividing of tares and wheat} because the world. in the unfinished creation, is the only place there is any "evil" or ungodliness, or {immaturity and ignorance\lack of true wisdom}.

The ignorance and lack of true wisdom, a position of still being short of the glory of God, is who Christians are also, children.  We are now to grow up, at least some of us who are experienced in the ways of both.

Paul said in Colossians that he was filling up or still part of the sufferings of Christ and they were happening IN HIS OWN FLESH, and that it was an example for the church {body of Christ} that we would take the hard times we endure in the world the same way Jesus the Christ DID and in us still does, for our sake so we may live and grow up.

Mankind in the creation is the beginning, only the beginning of God's creating work.   As Revelation says, Jesus Christ is the beginning of God's creation or creative work in the creation.  We all, mankind who has ever lived up to this time, is the still suffering body that will be the many members of Jesus Christ in the creation when matured into God's SPIRITUAL IMAGE WITHIN.  Every person who has ever lived has suffered ailments, pain, sorrow, doubt, death, and so on having life\Christ in them and has carried these things on and on toward the end of the growth of natural mankind and the education of what makes us sick, evolutionary development, science, the universe, that the sun does not go around the earth like once thought, etc.  This is so we may now "INTELLECTUALLY" be able to understand what GOD is doing and has been doing over eons of time with the creation.  Mankind is to become that gardner as Jesus Christ many members.  Then BY HIM, the son, God will make and complete and perfect all things in His creation {the garden} BY and THROUGH that many membered body of Mankind that is JESUS CHRIST his son with GOD IN the sons.   Jesus in maturity.   

AN example I already gave once here somewhere in one thread...   When people in history had the plague, or small pox, they suffered illness, weakness pain, and death.  But because they suffered it and man sought a cure for it because of "survival of the fittest" and GOD's help in understanding what the cure is, we do not have to suffer these things today, especially in more developed countries which happen to be mostly, or used to be mostly, some sort of Christian basis.

They suffered so we today do not have to.  When Jesus Christ as the maturity of God is in man spiritually, we\mankind\mature son of God, Jesus the Christ, we will cure all disease, as Jesus gave example of in Israel.  Control all the weather, as Jesus did with the storm in Israel, etc.  There will be no hiding place for any evil thought or desire in fact, as all will be ONE MIND, NOT NATURE\SPIRIT, and one Body\person, like the many cells on your present body are all of one person, you who you are at present.

Then anyone who is born AFTER there is peace on earth and good will toward men as the norm and the only way in rule in men by men as SONS, will not have to suffer some or many of the things we did and it will be known that our sufferings happened FOR THEIR SAKE.  No more death.

There will still be babies being born, children being childish and that childishness in them dying in their due time as they become spiritual adults who are all going to be Jesus Christ Spiritually, IN THE CREATION.  This all takes place AFTER Jesus Christ, as the spirit of GOD, brings many sons to maturity as Jesus in the flesh and as the Christ of God in their spirit, to be Jesus Christ in the creation.  THEN we are going to be given and understand what our work SHALL BE.

It shall be as THE GARDENER as a person with Christ\God in them as their father in maturity, and our flesh body will be MEET or EQUAL to the task, a help meet for Him, GOd, in the creation in his son... to finish the whole creation thereafter, making all alive.

Even if you do not think this is true, it is certainly greater and better than anything presented by man so far, in full, I am sure.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Hi donken.....I don't disagree with everything you've said, although it may appear that way to you because the parts I don't agree with are what I discussed.

So it's pretty much narrowed down to 1) infallibility of the scriptures and who wrote them, and 2) the spirit of authorship, as I can best understand what you have presented. Just so you know...... :dsunny:

[donken]

Hi Cardinal.  Thanks for your reply.   Of course, what I am saying, without saying or thinking that any one has to believe it or see it, is that this is the year, 2014, in the earth that the promises of God are finally going to begin to be fulfilled without ceasing, rolling ever onward to the end of the world as it is now.

Like in the days of Noah not many may believe that at this time, but the flood coming today is the flood of the spirit, as scripture presents as a picture of water flooding out from under the throne and the further out it gets the deeper it is.    There is the spiritual power of tsunami in those waters that will bring an end to unbelief.  Unbelief will be drowned and die because of the force of that tsunami like spiritual force in the flood waters of the spirit.  In the last days **I WILL** pour out of my spirit upon ALL flesh, and as Isaiah 32 and other places say, until the SPIRIT be poured upon us from "on high"

So what accomplishes this is the spirit, not a "man" in only one single body appearing to man through man's physical eyesight.    The second man, the Lord FROM Heaven, is a\the quickening spirit.  The earnest of the spirit is not the time of fullness nor is it the time of actual salvation.

Joh_1:12  But as many as received him, to them gave he power to ***become** the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Act 3:19  Repent ye therefore, and be converted,*that your sins may be blotted out*, **when** the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Act 3:20  And he shall **send Jesus Christ**, which before was preached unto you:
Act 3:21  Whom the heaven must receive until the times of ***restitution of all things**, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
As we may read, to become is what John says, which can be understood to not mean ALREADY ARE\IS.

And our sins are to be blotted right out or removed entirely only WHEN the times of refreshing BEGIN up to the result of the restitution of all things  The real restitution of course is to be restored TO GOD from whence our life came out from God.  The life is restored to God through Godliness being lived by the life of God in us, and the Spirit of God, holiness in us as the clean inside, will save the body of each of us "from sin and it's results", death.

To make the inside clean first we have the resurrection of CHRIST the anointing of God IN US, first.   This will bring the spirit of man {life in man} into holiness, line upon line, through a spiritual marriage or reunion of the spirit of God to the spirit\life of man, and man will become incorruptible, meaning holy or morally holy and thus "without sin" even while being ALIVE AND REMAINING here in the world. 

Then, through the perfection of man by walking or living in the world without sin and without falling any more to temptations that are evil, the SPIRIT inside man being clean, will bring about the salvation of the body {Jesus who we will then be} and the body will become immortal.  The body of each is the INCREASE of the kingdom of God but the Spirit is and always was in eternity and is eternal life.  No increase that way.

I don't know if this will help one see what I am saying in it, but it is there the way "i see things".

Rom 8:10  And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11  But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

This is saying that Christ can be in your even while the body is dead, but it is also saying that the end result of what God is doing is to give the body eternal life, FROM WITHIN IT.  It is done from inside it.

vs.10  Christ can be {is} in one and the body still be dead, or ... causing sin etc, because of immaturity, not fully "grown" up can say.  Start as a little child.
The we see that Jesus was raised by THE SPIRIT {of God, that is God}.  LIFE entered into Jesus' body and is what "raised or enlivened Jesus the body".

vs. Tells us that Christ {anoinging of God} was also "dead" and has to be raised up, which is Pentecostalism in this world.  Through a process of time we are married in our spirit of man, the seed of God, to God through a spiritual intercourse period of time.   Christ was "dead", the anointing of pouring out of God's spirit from on high WAS DEAD or inactive in the world.
Through a process of becoming spiritually clean or to have God's righteousness within, the body {outside} is to become immortal FROM WITHIN *IT*.  So, that is where Jesus Christ is "appearing\coming with salvation {healing} in his wings, as it were. 

So, when the spirit is beginning to be poured out upon us it is the "resurrection or raising up or returning" the anointing of God to our life within us, and over time the marriage of man's life {which is also from God but has been subject to immaturity\sin\childishness} with the Spirit of God produces a son, all done in the one body and the body becomes Jesus with the Father, eternal Holy life, within it in immortality.   God is authentic and the way things have to be done to be authentic and real is the way things are done, no shortcuts.   Holiness does not pretend and is not immaturity, just as a baby is not really ever an adult, and can not ever be an adult while still a child, not matter how much the child might want to be "grown up".  He is only grown up at the time genetically appointed. {only an imperfect parable example of the spiritual process}

Rom 8:12  Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13  ***For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:*** but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

As in a little leaven leavens the whole lump, so a little disobedience {sin} leavens or causes the whole body and spirit to be "dead" or still die.   This is spoken to believers, who can live and do still live after many or some of the ways of the world\flesh and must do so until the day of the Lord, the SPIRITUAL battle of Armageddon.  That day is here or we could not speak this way yet because natural man, if he knew he could not be of God's righteousness yet, before today, the natural man would willingly do many things that are evil and excuse them.

But we know or hear these things today, and if we hear them correctly, then we know we will no longer be able to remain children and not be "corrected" into Spiritual maturity by God.  I mean, when we know that we could not do it in former times, now, then it is able to be accomplished now.  We must participate willingly and in knowledge, in agreement as two who will become the one.

God bless, Donken

[FreeAtLast]

Hi Cardinal.  Thanks for your reply.   Of course, what I am saying, without saying or thinking that any one has to believe it or see it, is that this is the year, 2014, in the earth that the promises of God are finally going to begin to be fulfilled without ceasing, rolling ever onward to the end of the world as it is now.

Like in the days of Noah not many may believe that at this time, but the flood coming today is the flood of the spirit, as scripture presents as a picture of water flooding out from under the throne and the further out it gets the deeper it is.    There is the spiritual power of tsunami in those waters that will bring an end to unbelief.  Unbelief will be drowned and die because of the force of that tsunami like spiritual force in the flood waters of the spirit.  In the last days **I WILL** pour out of my spirit upon ALL flesh, and as Isaiah 32 and other places say, until the SPIRIT be poured upon us from "on high"

So what accomplishes this is the spirit, not a "man" in only one single body appearing to man through man's physical eyesight.    The second man, the Lord FROM Heaven, is a\the quickening spirit.  The earnest of the spirit is not the time of fullness nor is it the time of actual salvation.

Joh_1:12  But as many as received him, to them gave he power to ***become** the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Act 3:19  Repent ye therefore, and be converted,*that your sins may be blotted out*, **when** the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Act 3:20  And he shall **send Jesus Christ**, which before was preached unto you:
Act 3:21  Whom the heaven must receive until the times of ***restitution of all things**, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
As we may read, to become is what John says, which can be understood to not mean ALREADY ARE\IS.

And our sins are to be blotted right out or removed entirely only WHEN the times of refreshing BEGIN up to the result of the restitution of all things  The real restitution of course is to be restored TO GOD from whence our life came out from God.  The life is restored to God through Godliness being lived by the life of God in us, and the Spirit of God, holiness in us as the clean inside, will save the body of each of us "from sin and it's results", death.

To make the inside clean first we have the resurrection of CHRIST the anointing of God IN US, first.   This will bring the spirit of man {life in man} into holiness, line upon line, through a spiritual marriage or reunion of the spirit of God to the spirit\life of man, and man will become incorruptible, meaning holy or morally holy and thus "without sin" even while being ALIVE AND REMAINING here in the world. 

Then, through the perfection of man by walking or living in the world without sin and without falling any more to temptations that are evil, the SPIRIT inside man being clean, will bring about the salvation of the body {Jesus who we will then be} and the body will become immortal.  The body of each is the INCREASE of the kingdom of God but the Spirit is and always was in eternity and is eternal life.  No increase that way.

I don't know if this will help one see what I am saying in it, but it is there the way "i see things".

Rom 8:10  And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11  But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

This is saying that Christ can be in your even while the body is dead, but it is also saying that the end result of what God is doing is to give the body eternal life, FROM WITHIN IT.  It is done from inside it.

vs.10  Christ can be {is} in one and the body still be dead, or ... causing sin etc, because of immaturity, not fully "grown" up can say.  Start as a little child.
The we see that Jesus was raised by THE SPIRIT {of God, that is God}.  LIFE entered into Jesus' body and is what "raised or enlivened Jesus the body".

vs. Tells us that Christ {anoinging of God} was also "dead" and has to be raised up, which is Pentecostalism in this world.  Through a process of time we are married in our spirit of man, the seed of God, to God through a spiritual intercourse period of time.   Christ was "dead", the anointing of pouring out of God's spirit from on high WAS DEAD or inactive in the world.
Through a process of becoming spiritually clean or to have God's righteousness within, the body {outside} is to become immortal FROM WITHIN *IT*.  So, that is where Jesus Christ is "appearing\coming with salvation {healing} in his wings, as it were. 

So, when the spirit is beginning to be poured out upon us it is the "resurrection or raising up or returning" the anointing of God to our life within us, and over time the marriage of man's life {which is also from God but has been subject to immaturity\sin\childishness} with the Spirit of God produces a son, all done in the one body and the body becomes Jesus with the Father, eternal Holy life, within it in immortality.   God is authentic and the way things have to be done to be authentic and real is the way things are done, no shortcuts.   Holiness does not pretend and is not immaturity, just as a baby is not really ever an adult, and can not ever be an adult while still a child, not matter how much the child might want to be "grown up".  He is only grown up at the time genetically appointed. {only an imperfect parable example of the spiritual process}

Rom 8:12  Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
Rom 8:13  ***For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die:*** but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

As in a little leaven leavens the whole lump, so a little disobedience {sin} leavens or causes the whole body and spirit to be "dead" or still die.   This is spoken to believers, who can live and do still live after many or some of the ways of the world\flesh and must do so until the day of the Lord, the SPIRITUAL battle of Armageddon.  That day is here or we could not speak this way yet because natural man, if he knew he could not be of God's righteousness yet, before today, the natural man would willingly do many things that are evil and excuse them.

But we know or hear these things today, and if we hear them correctly, then we know we will no longer be able to remain children and not be "corrected" into Spiritual maturity by God.  I mean, when we know that we could not do it in former times, now, then it is able to be accomplished now.  We must participate willingly and in knowledge, in agreement as two who will become the one.

God bless, Donken

question for donken???  you say that man done all the (evil) in the old testament

did man draw back the red sea and cause it to fall back on the armies and kill them or did God ?
did man kill off themselves in the flood by causing water to come or did God ?
did man cause the serpents to bite and kill them or did God ?
did man cause the ground to open up and swallow them or did God ?
did man cause an angel to kill hundreds of thousands of men or did God ?
did men cause leprosy to fall upon themselves or did God ?
did man cause the walls to fall down or did God ?

I  could go on and on--but think you get the idea  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

[marie glen]

question for donken???  you say that man done all the (evil) in the old testament

did man draw back the red sea and cause it to fall back on the armies and kill them or did God ?
did man kill off themselves in the flood by causing water to come or did God ?
did man cause the serpents to bite and kill them or did God ?
did man cause the ground to open up and swallow them or did God ?
did man cause an angel to kill hundreds of thousands of men or did God ?
did men cause leprosy to fall upon themselves or did God ?
did man cause the walls to fall down or did God ?

I  could go on and on--but think you get the idea  :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob:

..amen.. God has done all things in order to bring about what it is He is doing.. He is the gardener.. of the world, of which tiny Israel is a microcosm and was chosen to play a specific part..

As gardener, if you let the weeds grow unchecked eventually there will be nothing but weeds.

Add to that, that ALL will be resurrected.. and ultimately ALL will be totally filled up with joy, etc..

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I believe Donken is either banned, or read only at this point. Blessings....