Matt 6:11 - Our bread

[Seth]

God is teaching us to use our tongue as sons of the most high by letting us reap what we sow of it, but until we see through the discipline of it, the darkness of it, we cannot see the sanctifying result of the fire. The Psalmist says

This is basically what I am talking about.  :thumbsup:

Essentially the fire is everywhere, which means that when Jesus said "I have come to set fire to the earth" he really meant it.  :laughing7:

I agree, there is basically one fire, which is God. His judgements come down from heaven in different forms. Sometimes, it's a matter of letting the stubborn ones (like me sometimes) get burnt up in a fire of our own making. Yet the fire still comes from God because it's his judgment to let us go down that road if we choose that.

I think what Jesus is talking about regarding the worm and the fire of Gehenna is not to let our whole selves be caught up in a judgment fire that requires humbling, but rather judge (krino) ourselves now, that we not be judged-down (katakrino) with the world. In other words, if your tongue is on fire of Gehenna, throw it outside, before it consumes the whole body.

Even when the Sons of God are through with their race and have been glorified to the world, there will be essentially two fires (spiritually speaking): One on Mt. Zion and one below in Gehenna. The Sons of God will be consumed with a fire called THE GOSPEL which is what they will use to bring everyone else out of the Gehenna fire (being lost and caught up in sin, lacking knowledge of Christ).

Talk about fighting fire with fire, eh?  :laughing7:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen, love it.  :iagree: :thumbsup:

[micah7:9]

I wake up, I am happy and thankful that I am here, to continue whatever His purpose, this I pray. I go to bed, thankful I was given the time to be used in whatever way, and hope/pray that His Will was able to use my/this vessel. My "daily" bread is the truth, I am able to be molded and used, corrected, reproofed, in the learning process...as I grow.
My "daily bread" Gal 2:20  I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me: and that life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith which is in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me.
:dsunny: :banana: :dsunny:

[WhiteWings]

(Grace has nothing to do with it. Grace never overrules the law)

Can you go into that a little?

Thanks

Quickly then. Almost time for my big trip to the airport  :banana:

When people had debts in the ancient world they often got sold as slaves. That's what we read in the OT about people becoming slaves. They had to work to pay of their debt. The slave owner/master paid of the debt of the slave. Now the slave had a debt with the master. The debt was to work for a certain number of years.
The short story is:
Sin=debt we own to God.
Jesus paid our debt.

Jesus, for example paid the debt of a thief. For God the sin/debt of stealing is cancelled. The thief is under grace. But when Jesus was on the cross He in no way was saying: I'm paying now! Steal and kill all you like, I got it covered!
Grace is that your debts get cancelled and God 'forgets' them. So when being judged God won't say, Yeah I know Jesus paid but once a thief always a thief. I'm going to hold a grudge against you for eternity.

When you caught your son stealing from your wallet, you are entitled to lock him up in his room. But because his graduation party is that night you forgive him. Cancel his debt. He's joining the party under grace. You would say: "Son go, enjoy and steal no more"

That's how I see grace :2c:

[shawn]

Still also also, "the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity"

Yes, the tongue is a fire. It consumes us if we misuse it. "Beware if you bite and devour one another lest you consume one another". Judgment is in the tongue, God has made it so by the spirit He put in us, that we create and destroy with it even as He does, for we are made after His likeness.

God has set principles of fire and water in motion in the creation, for both futility and harmony, chaos and order. "Light shall shine out of darkness"(2Cor)

How is this? Is it darkness or is it light? It is darkness until we see into it, through the torn veil, the fellowship of the broken body of Christ.

"Take and eat, this is my body, broken for you."

God is teaching us to use our tongue as sons of the most high by letting us reap what we sow of it, but until we see through the discipline of it, the darkness of it, we cannot see the sanctifying result of the fire. The Psalmist says

In my trouble I cried to the Lord
and He answered me
"Deliver me from lying lips
and a deceitful tongue"
What shall be done unto you
and what more be given to you oh deceitful tongue
sharp arrows of the mighty
with coals of juniper wood.

Remember Isaiah 6

Woe unto me for I am a man of unclean lips
and I dwell among a people of unclean lips
and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts

Then flew one of the seraphim unto me
with a live coal in his hand taken with the tongs off the altar
Behold, this has touched your lips
Your iniquity is taken away and your sin is purged

Then I heard the voice of the Lord and He said, "Who will go for me"
And I said, here I am send me and He said, "Go and tell this people
Keep on seeing and not perceiving, hearing and not understanding.....

Most disciples are still in phase one: Woe unto me for I am a man of unclean lips and I have seen the King.

Our consciousness of His righteousness rings out like "LET THERE BE LIGHT" over the chaos of our carnality and conviction reigns as we eat sin like bread and walk in the flesh. Even so His grace prevails. "Sharp arrows of the mighty(and their hearts were pierced and they cried, "Men and brethren what must we do-Acts 2) and burning coals of juniper wood" "LIGHT SHINES OUT OF DARKNESS" We see our sin and than the fire touches our tongue. "If any man control the tongue he is perfect(mature, complete -James)"

The fire has done its work, revealing our flaw even as it consumed us even as we were trying to consume another.


Create in me a clean heart O God(from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks) Desire for righteousness
"Against you and you only have I sinned and done that which was evil in your sight.... Awareness of the true nature and source of sin
"You desire truth in the inward parts and will make me to know the hidden wisdom".......An awakening to who I am left to my own devices
Deliver me from blood-guiltiness and my tongue shall sing aloud of your righteousness..." ....A desire only to flow living water from the well of the spirit
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit, a broken and a contrite heart O God you will never cast out.".... Gratefulness for grace, dependence on God
"Do good in Your good pleasure to Zion, build up the walls of Jerusalem".......Restoration, strength, ministry as builders of lives, repairers of the breach

You have given me the tongue of the discipled that I might speak a word in season to Him that is weary(Isaiah) ....The only true discipleship leads to brokeness (follow the line of Peter, for example, to the cocks crow, and beyond, to the seaside meeting with the resurrected Lord))

Brokeness MUST COME before restoration, and for some of us (me<<< :o) it comes slow, and the evidence of it is on my tongue, inviting many arrows of the mighty(trials) and coals of the juniper(self revelations bringing truth in the inner man)- but God is faithful and patient and the Potter will not kiln the marred vessel of clay, He will pour water on it, crush it down and then shape it up again- as long as I am willing, and then some lol.

Another example of this conversion of the fire of a consuming God becoming the light shining from a purged servant.....

"And the Lord showed me Joshua, the high priest, standing before the Lord and satan standing at His right side to resist him, and the Lord said unto Satan, the Lord rebuke thee Satan, Is this not a brand plucked out of the fire?
Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments and stood before the angel,
And He answered and spake to those who were standing before Him and said, "Take away the filthy garments from Him".
And He said, "Behold, I have caused your iniquity to pass from you and given new a change of rainment."
And He said, "Let them place a beautiful crown upon his head"
So they placed a beautiful crown upon His head and clothed him with garments, and the angel of the Lord stood by.
And the angel of the Lord charged Joshua, "If you will walk in my ways and perform my service then you will also govern my house and keep my courts and have access among those who are standing here."  Zechariah 3

Fiery trials, purified faith, coals upon the tongue, all in order that we become as He was, meek and lowly of heart.....finally fit for service.

I do not want to overwork a metaphor or anything ;o) but really, imo, there is only one fire and it is always consuming, until it is only shining as pure light.

Wow.  I think there might be something there for me this morning.  Thank you for that.

[Seth]

When I think of Grace and punishment/correction/discipline (however you want to call it), I think about Titus 2:11-12

Titus 2
11For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching (paiduo - chastening) us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Here are some other scriptures with the word "paiduo" so you get a sense of it:

- Pilate talking about Christ: (Luke 23) 15"No, nor has Herod, for he sent Him back to us; and behold, nothing deserving death has been done by Him. 16"Therefore I will punish  (paiduo) Him and release Him."

- (Hebrews 12) 6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth (paiduo), and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

--------

Grace is about more than forgiveness but about instructing us, through chastening, on how to live the way God wants us to live. For that reason, IMHO, there is really no need to balance Law with Grace when it comes to what God does when believers err. Grace is sufficient even for our chastening.

[Seth]

 :friendstu:

[micah7:9]

From "Our bread," to "worm," to "fire," now, "grace." I am somewhat lost :HeartThrob:

Should not have used the word lost, just somewhat mystified about the path.Yes I know the ALL the Word coincides.  :Peace2:

[Seth]

It all coincides. The bread brings life. But, for those who reject growing in grace, living not on that daily bread who is Christ, they are consumed by the fire of their own sins, until they reach a place of repentance, the worm having eaten them up until the flesh is gone, for blessed are those "who thirst for righteousness, for they shall be filled." Until they thirst for righteousness, they are not filled.

Grace for the humble, resistance for the proud.

[WhiteWings]

From "Our bread," to "worm," to "fire," now, "grace." I am somewhat lost :HeartThrob:

Should not have used the word lost, just somewhat mystified about the path.Yes I know the ALL the Word coincides.  :Peace2:

It's all connected.

Fire leads toward bread. Bread triggers grace.
God has only one single purpose and all His actions lead to that purpose.
:2c:

[lastpost]

1 O LORD, thou art my God; I will exalt thee, I will praise thy name; for THOU HAST DONE WONDERFUL THINGS; thy counsels of old are faithfulness and truth. Isaiah 25

11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? Luke 11

2 "I have compassion for these PEOPLE; they have already been with me three days and have nothing to eat.
3 If I send them home hungry, they will collapse on the way, because some of them have come a long distance." Mark 8

36 Send the PEOPLE away so that they can go to the surrounding countryside and villages and buy themselves something to eat."
37 But he answered, "YOU give them something to eat." Mark 6

41 But he said, Then bring meal. And he cast it into the pot; and he said, POUR OUT for the PEOPLE, that they may eat. And there was no harm in the pot. 2 Kings 4

9 IF we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1

27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness. Isaiah 1

15 And deliver them who through FEAR OF DEATH were all their lifetime SUBJECT TO BONDAGE. Hebrews 2

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and GREATER WORKS than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. John 14

12 Restore unto me the JOY of thy salvation; and uphold me [with thy] NOBLE SPIRIT. Psalms 51

4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plow-shares, and their spears into pruning-hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Isaiah  40
9 O Zion, that bringest good tidings, get thee up into the high mountain; O Jerusalem, that bringest good tidings, LIFT UP THY VOICE WITH STRENGTH; lift it up, be not afraid; say unto the cities of Judah, BEHOLD YOUR GOD!






   

[lastpost]

Isaiah 11
10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the PEOPLE; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his resting place shall be [IS] glorious.

Psalms 92
9 For, LO, thine enemies, O LORD, for, LO, thine enemies shall [HAVE] perish; ALL the workers of iniquity shall be [ARE] SCATTERED!

Isaiah 60
2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be [IS] SEEN upon thee.
3 And the Gentiles shall [HAVE] come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

Isaiah 49
13 Sing, O heavens; and be joyful, O earth; and break forth into singing, O mountains: for the LORD HATH COMFORTED his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted.