Matt 6:11 - Our bread

[ed]

Hmmm, the word of God is just so awesome and beautiful.

Wow.

On another forum my sig line is "We need a good fire!"

You all have one going here!

:flamebreath:

[sheila]

beautiful thread....I see merit in ww worm..and Becca's maggot  anaolgys..though seeming at opposition..their pov

  is like both the right and left hand..that holds truth[often the right hand knows not what the left is doing]

Isaaih 14,11,12.......speaks of him that fell.....and a bed of maggots await him[corruptionof all men's flesh/image of corrupt one]

   and we all fall many times...as we learn to walk in the spirit.

   But He has hold of our hands to lift us up in the spirit again that we may overcome and appear in His image..

    I have the destinct image of a Father holding the hand of His child as He learns to walk[ in the way]

[WhiteWings]

beautiful thread....I see merit in ww worm..and Becca's maggot  anaolgys..though seeming at opposition..their pov

Not at all Sheila. If I correctly understood Bex' post, my post is just adding to hers. Not opposing it. Ok, on minor point like worm or worms.

Maggots only eat dead flesh. They have/had medical use.

Mark 9:44 where their worm is not dying, and the fire is not being quenched.
Note: This verse is not in Rotherham.

Job 25:6 How much less man, [that is] a worm?((rimmah=maggot) and the son of man, [which is] a worm (towla=crimson worm)

The question is what type of worm is there in Gehenna?

The worm from Mark 9:44
σκώληξ
skōlēx
Thayer Definition:
1) a worm, spec. that kind which preys upon dead bodies
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: of uncertain derivation
Citing in TDNT: 7:452, 1054
Greek  LXX version of Job uses skōlēx

So the Gehenna worm is the type Job compared with Jesus.

[WhiteWings]

Read the article below and then say wow  :dsunny:



The undying worm

To the light bed-time reader, the Gospel of Mark, apparently, provides us with a little more information about Gehenna which is not mentioned elsewhere, although beneath the surface, rather than support the view of a literal Hell, it actually undermines it:

'...And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off. It is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched. Where their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched. And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off. It is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast onto hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched. Where their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched. And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out. It is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire. Where their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched. For everyone shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt. Salt is good. But if the salt have lost its saltiness, wherewith shall ye season it. Have salt in yourselves and have peace one with another...' (Mark 9:43-50)
Aside of the contingent hypothesis, the term "enter into life," in these verses, surprisingly, has nothing to do with entering into the after-life, or heaven. The word "enter" is rendered from the Greek word eisercomai eiserchomai, which means to come in, or go out, but can also be used metaphorically to denote entrance into a condition, or state. These words, therefore, refer to vitality, and entering into fullness of life whilst in this world, rather than the next. To be maimed, of course, is to be wounded, injured, or hurt, be that physically, or psychologically, and the result of removing a stumbling block from some individuals would have exactly that effect - giving up sin hurts, in other words.

The term "...Where their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched..." is repeated three times in this verse, thus, among other things, drawing the attention of the reader to its importance. The "worm" in this verse is rendered from the Greek word skwlhx skolex, the name given to a specific type of worm, which feeds on decaying matter - a detritivore in fact. The equivalent Hebrew word is hmr rimmah, a worm, or maggot, also associated with decay. Now the writer of Mark's Gospel would have us believe that Jesus is quoting from the Old Testament book of Isaiah, but the problem with this, is that the worm referred to in Isaiah is not associated with decay at all - quite the opposite, in fact:

For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh (Isaiah 66:22-24).

The Hebrew word used here is elwt towla, meaning specifically coccus ilicis, the female worm, or grub, from which, the much sort after, scarlet dye was extracted. In the Old Testament the word is nearly always translated as "scarlet," the colour predominantly associated with wealth and importance, etc., and, not surprisingly, a colour which was a prominent feature of the Tabernacle. Perhaps the most important occurrence of this word, though, is in the book of Job, where it is used in reference to, none other than, "the son of man" himself:

How much less man, that is a worm? [rimmah] and the son of man, which is a worm? [towla]. (Job 25:6)

Job makes it clear that there is a distinction to be made between these two worms, as one is associated with death and decay [rimmah], the other with royalty, the "son of man" [towla]. The life-cycle of the towla was, then, evidently, symbolic of the shedding of Jesus' blood on the cross - or on a tree, as Acts would have it - and, subsequently, the resurrection and the eternal life which was to follow. That this is the sense in which towla is used in Isaiah 66 is evident from other words used in verse 24; the word "abhorring," for example, comes from the Hebrew word Nward dera'own, which can also be translated as aversion or contempt, and to hold someone in contempt is, of course, to despise them. That Jesus was "a reproach of men, and despised of the people" is attested to in Psalm 22:6, where again, we find the word towla translated as worm. The word "unto" is rendered from the Hebrew word la 'el which can also mean by, and the word "flesh" is rendered from the Hebrew word rsb basar which can also mean mankind.

It should also be remembered that the latter portion of the book of Isaiah was, for the most part, written to reassure those in Jerusalem, that God was going to fulfil his promises to the faithful. The fate of the rebellious, however, is also described, especially in chapter 65:1-16, for example, and it is this fate which is aptly summed up in chapter 66:24, in the term "...the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me." This is evident from the fact that the word transgressed is rendered from the Hebrew word evp pasha, which also means to rebel.

What is more important, though, is that the "worm" and the "fire" mentioned here, does not refer to those who have "transgressed" or rebelled against the Lord. The worm here is towla, which was not a symbol of death or decay, but rather, a symbol of wealth, status, and eternal life through the son of man. So it is the faithful who shall "go forth" and it is "their seed" and "their name," that will remain, just as the "new heavens and the new earth," but it is they, also, who will be "despised by all mankind," just as Jesus was. It is their fire which shall not be quenched, not the fire of the carcasses of the rebellious.

It would appear then, that the writer of Mark, either did not know the real significance and symbolism of the undying worm when he constructed his gospel, or he simply could not find a Greek equivalent for it. In the latter case, it remains a mystery why he did not, then, transliterate the Hebrew towla, instead of using the Greek word skolex. That the writer of the Gospel of Mark completely misses the importance of the Old Testament symbology has proved to be totally misleading, for it presents the unwary reader with what appears to be just another allusion to Hell, when in fact, it is not.

[WhiteWings]

  this always blessed me when I read it  than and even now
  since you guys brought this up  , I thought to share it  catapillar  as a worm  sometimes  are  food for birds of the air  :eek:  and yet God is merciful   though Jesus Christ



worm  H8438 - towla`
תּוֹלָע
Transliteration

towla`
Pronunciation

tō·lä' (Key)


Part of Speech

masculine noun

Root Word (Etymology)

From יָלַע (H3216)

TWOT Reference

2516b


Outline of Biblical Usage
worm, scarlet stuff, crimson

worm - the female 'coccus ilicis'

scarlet stuff, crimson, scarlet

the dye made from the dried body of the female of the worm "coccus ilicis"

worm, maggot

worm, grub

the worm "coccus ilicis"

"When the female of the scarlet worm species was ready to give birth to her young, she would attach her body to the trunk of a tree, fixing herself so firmly and permanently that she would never leave again. The eggs deposited beneath her body were thus protected until the larvae were hatched and able to enter their own life cycle.

As the mother died, the crimson fluid stained her body and the surrounding wood. From the dead bodies of such female scarlet worms, the commercial scarlet dyes of antiquity were extracted.

What a picture this gives of Christ, dying on the tree, shedding his precious blood that he might 'bring many sons unto glory' (Hbr 2:10)! He died for us, that we might live through him! Psa 22:6 describes such a worm and gives us this picture of Christ. (cf. Isa 1:18)"


(Henry Morris. Biblical Basis for Modern Science, Baker Book House, 1985, p. 73)






Isa 41:14 Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.    


Psa 22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

same crimson stuff

Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

[sheila]

  I understand that ww..but the point I was trying to make was this.....as all men have bore the image of the corrupt one...so

   shall all men bear the image of the incorruptible one.

    when we 'get in the flesh" or fall from the spirit abode[our ]proper dwelling place]  we exhibit the image of the corrupt one.

[dead/stink offerings.


    bed of maggots...........no flesh boast..we all have bore the image of both[this body  of death/corruption]     have you become

weak..  like us?  pomp brought down. etc.   

   

   

[Seth]

Yes, we must bear the image of the corrupt one, and then must die to bear the image of Christ. I think that is what Mark 9:43-50 is talking about, because he says "everyone will be salted with fire." I used to think that Jesus was recommending that if our limbs "offend thee" they should be cut off and removed to be set on fire. But James 3:6 changed my thinking about that.

James 3:6 refers to the tongue as a fire, a world of iniquity, which is set on fire of Gehenna. So now, I believe that Christ is telling his disciples to cut off the offending limbs because they are on fire already (offending thee), and his point is to say that his disciples must be rid of all limbs that are beset by an offending fire, one that is a "world of iniquity."

Mark 9:43-50
47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into Gehenna fire.

One thing I can tell right away is that Gehenna fire is not the Kingdom of God, because Jesus is saying it's better to enter the kingdom of God half blinded than to be cast into Gehenna fire.  Gehenna fire = something you want to avoid because it's better to enter the Kingdom of God.

I don't have much of a problem with the idea that Jesus could be the worm eating the flesh in Gehenna, though I don't believe that simply because Job refers to the son of man as a worm means that all instances of worm represent that. After all, God is compared to a fire, just as wickedness is compared to fire within the same Bible.

What I find most important is that the worm is eating the flesh. That is something I see to be a good thing. But I think there is a very good reason Jesus says it is better to enter the Kingdom rather than be cast into Gehenna: because while all God's judgments are ultimately good, they don't always feel good.

Example: God gives grace to the humble but resists the proud.

Both these judgments bear good fruit, but it's much better to receive grace than to be resisted as the proud. I believe Gehenna fire is as removed from the wealth and prosperity of New Jerusalem (the Bride) as night is separated from day. I believe Gehenna fire is the wickedness of man which brings thirst to his soul for a better way, and I would encourage us all to avoid Gehenna fire as much as Christ cautioned against it, but that doesn't mean that it will not result in the ultimate dying to the flesh to bear the image of Christ. It worked for the Prodigal Son, after all.

[sheila]

 :thumbsup:...  Father teaches us through both positive and negative expierences.......ones a rougher road for sure.

 

[Seth]

 :thumbsup:

Isaiah 63
17 Why, O Lord, do You cause us to stray from Your ways And harden our heart from fearing You? Return for the sake of Your servants, the tribes of Your heritage.

Isaiah 64
7 There is no one who calls on Your name, Who arouses himself to take hold of You; For You have hidden Your face from us
 And have delivered us into the power of our iniquities. 8 But now, O Lord, You are our Father, We are the clay, and You our potter; And all of us are the work of Your hand.


Isaiah 65
1 "I permitted Myself to be sought by those who did not ask for Me; I permitted Myself to be found by those who did not seek Me. I said, 'Here am I, here am I,' To a nation which did not call on My name.

8 Thus says the Lord, "As the new wine is found in the cluster,
 And one says, 'Do not destroy it, for there is benefit in it,' So I will act on behalf of My servants In order not to destroy all of them. 9  "I will bring forth offspring from Jacob, And an heir of My mountains from Judah; Even My chosen ones shall inherit it, And My servants will dwell there.

11  "But you who forsake the Lord, Who forget My holy mountain,
Who set a table for Fortune, And who fill cups with mixed wine for Destiny, 12  I will destine you for the sword, And all of you will bow down to the slaughter. Because I called, but you did not answer; I spoke, but you did not hear. And you did evil in My sight And chose that in which I did not delight."

Those who inherit the mountain (Zion), then forget it, will be cast outside the City, and into the valley (Gehenna) and are destined for the Sword to bow down to the slaughter. The Spirit and the Bride say "come, all ye who are athirst and drink of the water of life freely."

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: :thumbsup:

[eaglesway]

Wormwood.

My son give attendance to my words, give ear to my understanding
That you may regard discretion and that your lips may keep knowledge
For the lips of a strange woman drip as the honeycomb and her mouth is smoother than oil
Bur her end is bitter as wormwood, sharper than a two edged sword
her feet go down to death and her steps take hold on hell
If you consider the path of her life, she is moveable(double minded man) you cannot know them(heart of man deceitul, who can know it?)
Hear me now oh you children, depart not from the words of my mouth(bread of life, hidden manna)

When the manna was not gathered promptly/daily it turned to worms

Worms eat the dead. Where the fire is not quenched and their worm dies no

Awake O sleeper and arise from the dead and the light of Christ will shine on you(Romans)

If the light that is in you is darkness how great is that darkness

Every hidden thing will be brought to light.

Therefore I will feed them with wormwood and give them gall to drink for from the prophets of Jerusalem profaneness has gone out into all the land(Jer)

And the name of the star is Wormwood and a third of the waters became wormwood, and many men died of the waters because they became bitter(Rev)

Lest there should be anyone among you who turns away this day from the Lord your God to serve the Gods of these nations and a root should spring up among you that brings forth gall and wormwood.(Deut)

Beware lest a root of bitterness spring up among you by which many be defiled.

We wait for bread. We don't force feed anyone- we pray that they will receive manna from heaven.

Beware of Jezebel that false prophetess, who teaches my people to eat meats sacrificed to idols(strange food) and teaches my people to commit fornication(strange flesh)(Rev)

I am the way the truth and the life. I am the bread that comes down from heaven.

Where were the principalities disarmed? At the cross(Colossians). Where was the law contained in ordinances anulled? Nailed to a tree in the body of Christ. What is the bread of our communion? The body of Christ, broken for the salvation of the world. How do we enter in? A broken and a contrite heart oh God you will never reject. What are the sacrifices of God? A broken heart and a contrite spirit. Before whom? Before God and EVERYONE ELSE.

Forgive them Father they do not know what they are doing. True bread. Hidden manna.

Fukushima is wormwood. Power generated unnaturally produces wormwood and gall, defiling bitterness.

Beware when you bite and devour one another lest you devour one another.

Forgive one another.
Forbear one another.
Bear one another's burbens.
Forgive one another.

Bread of life. Hidden manna. Grace.

The japanese are afraid of losing face, so the spent rods being cooled with water to keep them from exploding if they should come out into the light and explode into radiation poisoning fire and smoke, brimstone if you would, so they are lieing to their people and to the world as the leaking cooling water is still running into the ocean and turnng it to wormwood.

Jezebel's lips dripped as the honeycomb but her steps led down to death.

"See how great a forest is set ablaze(planting of the Lord consumed) by such a small flame. The tongue is a fire and a world of iniquity; so is the tongue among our members, and it defiles the whole body.........If you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not be arrogant and lie agaisnt the truth, this wisdom is not from above but is earthly sensual demonic, for where envying and strife is there is confusion and every evil work(wormwood). But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, easily entreated, full of mercy and good fruits(manna from heaven) and the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace. "(James 3)


All things, light and dark, lead to the glory of God. If we can see it, if we have our senses exercised to know the difference between good and evil, flesh and spirit, we can live in the daily manna, the true bread, and avoid the honeycomb dripping words of death and bitterness and gall.

Come all you who are thirsty drink freely of the water of life.

Don't let anyone worm their way into your life with strange teachings and departing from the wisdom of God, the milk, the bread, the wine. Such as Jannes and Jambres, who led away silly women laden with sins and subverted whole households with their strange teachings, whom Paul, sitting in the heavenly counsel before angels and God and the spirits of righteous men made perfect(my opinion :o), delivered over to Satan for the destrution of the flesh.

I felt like this could have been posted in a few different active threads, but I felt it fit best here. Test all things, hold fast what is true. Peace brothers and sisters :o)

[Seth]

 :iagree:

[ed]

John 6
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

[micah7:9]

Mark 9:44 and 46 are (possibly) spurious verses. :dontknow: And IF that be true then WW's posted article "The undying worm" is baseless. :2c:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: You know I can actually see the "undying worm" part as two sides of the same coin. The "fire" only burns if there is flesh to consume, otherwise it only consumes the bondages.

The Word only burns if there is conviction of sin, otherwise the stone (letter) is smitten to release the water of the Spirit that sooths and heals.

Which way it "hits" depends on the "position" of the hearer. My  :2c:  Blessings....

[Seth]

Mark 9:44 and 46 are (possibly) spurious verses. :dontknow: And IF that be true then WW's posted article "The undying worm" is baseless. :2c:

Spurious as in forged or added later?

[WhiteWings]

:cloud9: You know I can actually see the "undying worm" part as two sides of the same coin. The "fire" only burns if there is flesh to consume, otherwise it only consumes the bondages.

The Word only burns if there is conviction of sin, otherwise the stone (letter) is smitten to release the water of the Spirit that sooths and heals.

Which way it "hits" depends on the "position" of the hearer. My  :2c:  Blessings....

Fire represents the law. The law only corrects (=removes) wrongs. It also has a teaching component (all earth shall learn rightousness). That's why certain people won't be 'harmed by the fire'. Just like the wordly laws if you don't break them they don't harm you. Example: If you drive on the Interstate you are subject to a law on speeding. That law won't harm you with a speeding ticket if you don't speed. That's also why all the Fiery judgements are (vastly) different for everyone. TheLaw is acutually many "rules". One person gets corrected for blasphemy. The other one for theft. Etc.
(Grace has nothing to do with it. Grace never overrules the law)

[Seth]

I think it's "harmed of the second death." The Law brings death because when people try to follow it in a carnal state, sin increases and becomes more powerful. Sin is what brings death by the Law. The spirit on the other hand brings life. So those who walk by the spirit do no have to fear being harmed by death because they walk in life.

The speed limit is not what harms people. Crashing into another car is what harms people who disobey the speed limit. Sin (disobedience of the Law) is what brings death (a spiritual state of carnal mindedness). That's why I say that the Spirit brings life. Therefore, those who have the Spirit are not harmed of death.

If God uses the Law to punish people in the Day of the Lord, (ie stoning etc) then God is still counting men's sins against them. However, I believe the true recompense for sin is that man harms himself.

Sin is the fire.

[eaglesway]

:cloud9: You know I can actually see the "undying worm" part as two sides of the same coin. The "fire" only burns if there is flesh to consume, otherwise it only consumes the bondages.

The Word only burns if there is conviction of sin, otherwise the stone (letter) is smitten to release the water of the Spirit that sooths and heals.

Which way it "hits" depends on the "position" of the hearer. My  :2c:  Blessings....

:iagree:

To me, this is the core revelation of sanctification. There is only one fire, God. "Our God is a consuming fire." As, "gold tried in the fire seven times"(Zech) the Lampstand is made by a skilled craftsman of piece, pure and moldable.

"He will come as a refiner's fire.... I will purge away all your alloys...." (Malachi)

"...fiery trials for the purification of your faith...." (Peter)

"Everymans work will be tested with fire.....for the Day shall reveal it" (1 Corinthians 3)

"Every person shall be salted with fire(all men ever) and every sacrifice will be seasoned with salt(every believer).

As Cardinal stated, when there is nothing left to consume, no adversary to God's love, no residue of "selfishness", then the gold(person) will shine as a finished piece in the Master's collection. Peace.

[Seth]

Still also also, "the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity"

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen Eaglesway. You stated it much clearer than I did. Thanks! Blessings.... :girlheart:

[ed]

(Grace has nothing to do with it. Grace never overrules the law)

Can you go into that a little?

Thanks

[Seth]

:cloud9: Amen Eaglesway. You stated it much clearer than I did. Thanks! Blessings.... :girlheart:

I agree.  :thumbsup:

I have come to see that there is a fire on Zion for sanctification, where Jerusalem is. And then there is a fire in the valley. And both fires do a work of tearing down the flesh.

The fire in Zion (of sanctification) is so much better.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen. Both hurt, but you don't suffer as much loss in the fires of sanctification. You just lose what you didn't need in the first place, but in a case of mistaken identity, THOUGHT it was you.  :laughing7: :declare:  Blessings...

[eaglesway]

Still also also, "the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity"

Yes, the tongue is a fire. It consumes us if we misuse it. "Beware if you bite and devour one another lest you consume one another". Judgment is in the tongue, God has made it so by the spirit He put in us, that we create and destroy with it even as He does, for we are made after His likeness.

God has set principles of fire and water in motion in the creation, for both futility and harmony, chaos and order. "Light shall shine out of darkness"(2Cor)

How is this? Is it darkness or is it light? It is darkness until we see into it, through the torn veil, the fellowship of the broken body of Christ.

"Take and eat, this is my body, broken for you."

God is teaching us to use our tongue as sons of the most high by letting us reap what we sow of it, but until we see through the discipline of it, the darkness of it, we cannot see the sanctifying result of the fire. The Psalmist says

In my trouble I cried to the Lord
and He answered me
"Deliver me from lying lips
and a deceitful tongue"
What shall be done unto you
and what more be given to you oh deceitful tongue
sharp arrows of the mighty
with coals of juniper wood.

Remember Isaiah 6

Woe unto me for I am a man of unclean lips
and I dwell among a people of unclean lips
and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts

Then flew one of the seraphim unto me
with a live coal in his hand taken with the tongs off the altar
Behold, this has touched your lips
Your iniquity is taken away and your sin is purged

Then I heard the voice of the Lord and He said, "Who will go for me"
And I said, here I am send me and He said, "Go and tell this people
Keep on seeing and not perceiving, hearing and not understanding.....

Most disciples are still in phase one: Woe unto me for I am a man of unclean lips and I have seen the King.

Our consciousness of His righteousness rings out like "LET THERE BE LIGHT" over the chaos of our carnality and conviction reigns as we eat sin like bread and walk in the flesh. Even so His grace prevails. "Sharp arrows of the mighty(and their hearts were pierced and they cried, "Men and brethren what must we do-Acts 2) and burning coals of juniper wood" "LIGHT SHINES OUT OF DARKNESS" We see our sin and than the fire touches our tongue. "If any man control the tongue he is perfect(mature, complete -James)"

The fire has done its work, revealing our flaw even as it consumed us even as we were trying to consume another.


Create in me a clean heart O God(from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks) Desire for righteousness
"Against you and you only have I sinned and done that which was evil in your sight.... Awareness of the true nature and source of sin
"You desire truth in the inward parts and will make me to know the hidden wisdom".......An awakening to who I am left to my own devices
Deliver me from blood-guiltiness and my tongue shall sing aloud of your righteousness..." ....A desire only to flow living water from the well of the spirit
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit, a broken and a contrite heart O God you will never cast out.".... Gratefulness for grace, dependence on God
"Do good in Your good pleasure to Zion, build up the walls of Jerusalem".......Restoration, strength, ministry as builders of lives, repairers of the breach

You have given me the tongue of the discipled that I might speak a word in season to Him that is weary(Isaiah) ....The only true discipleship leads to brokeness (follow the line of Peter, for example, to the cocks crow, and beyond, to the seaside meeting with the resurrected Lord))

Brokeness MUST COME before restoration, and for some of us (me<<< :o) it comes slow, and the evidence of it is on my tongue, inviting many arrows of the mighty(trials) and coals of the juniper(self revelations bringing truth in the inner man)- but God is faithful and patient and the Potter will not kiln the marred vessel of clay, He will pour water on it, crush it down and then shape it up again- as long as I am willing, and then some lol.

Another example of this conversion of the fire of a consuming God becoming the light shining from a purged servant.....

"And the Lord showed me Joshua, the high priest, standing before the Lord and satan standing at His right side to resist him, and the Lord said unto Satan, the Lord rebuke thee Satan, Is this not a brand plucked out of the fire?
Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments and stood before the angel,
And He answered and spake to those who were standing before Him and said, "Take away the filthy garments from Him".
And He said, "Behold, I have caused your iniquity to pass from you and given new a change of rainment."
And He said, "Let them place a beautiful crown upon his head"
So they placed a beautiful crown upon His head and clothed him with garments, and the angel of the Lord stood by.
And the angel of the Lord charged Joshua, "If you will walk in my ways and perform my service then you will also govern my house and keep my courts and have access among those who are standing here."  Zechariah 3

Fiery trials, purified faith, coals upon the tongue, all in order that we become as He was, meek and lowly of heart.....finally fit for service.

I do not want to overwork a metaphor or anything ;o) but really, imo, there is only one fire and it is always consuming, until it is only shining as pure light.