Matt 6:11 - Our bread

[WhiteWings]

Matt 6:11 Give us this day our daily bread.

That's a very problematic/disputed translation because the word "daily" is translated from the Greek word "epiousios" which has an unknown meaning.
Origen searched everywhere but couldn't find the word in any Greek literature. The word isn't found outside the NT. In the NT we find it only in Mat 6:11 and Luke 11:3. But they are exactly the same verse and context so it's of no use for learning what the word means.
Scholars forwarded several possible meanings throughout time.



Epiousios is a reference to time. It can be split in 2 main interpretations.
a] Today
Receive the bread we need today. By far the most widely used translation.
Matt 6:11 Give us this day our daily bread.

b] Tomorrow.
Give us today tomorrows bread. That's a reference to the Sabbath manna that fell out of the sky on friday.
It is/was also named the "Messianic banquet of the end times."
Matt 6:11 Give us now today tomorrow's bread.



Epiousios is a reference to quantity. It can be split in 2 main interpretations.
a] Just enough not to starve
Matt 6:11 Give us this day our enough bread to survive.

b] All we need.Starvation was always lurking around the corner for the common man in ancient times. They felt great security/luxery if they went to bed knowing they had some bread left for the next day.
Matt 6:11 Give us this day today's and tomorrow's bread.



So we started with not knowing what the word means and ended with 4 views. I must admit the two 'b options' sound very nice, but they are just as much guesswork as the other options.


None of the above proves something went wrong with the Scriptures. Of course, it's a possibility; but in this case it seems the word meaning just faded away in history. If you accept other languages as inspired enough, there may be a solution found in an ancient Syriac translation. Syriac, Hebrew and Aramiac are sister languages with many words meaning exactly the same.

Mat 6:11 Lahmo ameno diyomo hab lan


Lahmo means bread.
Amenno is Syriac adjective with the same root word as amen. It carries the meaning of something that never runs out, never ending, etc
Matt 6:11 Give us this day bread that never runs out.

Imo that can have two meanings. The verse is a request to never have to worry about food in one's entire life. The "quantity b" option taken to its extreme.
Jesus Himself is everlasting bread too.

Make your choice  :Peace2:

[sheila]

hey ww...I had heard about that possibility before,a while back.    we live by 'every word' that comes from His mouth......

  communion/bread He is our daily sustenence...speaks of the relationship/dependance of man on God for life..

   tomorrow's bread today..could mean.........I tell you these things before they occurr so that you may know that I am He........

   ...from the prophetic utterances...that lead and guide us...prepare us for what is coming..to meet the challenges that lie ahead

  each day in our walk.  for instance..the prophecy of a coming famine upon the land..that Christians started preparing for

  ahead of time..and took up collections for releif ahead of time..and  the Joseph in Egypt account.  as well as Father's assurance

to supply enough bread afore time..for the sabbath rest of lands on the seventh year..and Jubilee.........


       I no lnger call you servants,because aa servant does not know his master's buisiness...speaks of intimacy of rellationship

        informed...we are not in the dark,so to speak..caught unawares......blown about.....He said 'I will not leave you as orphans"

   and He does not leave us bereft..or as sheep without a shepherd.

    we here,know the 'buisiness' of Our Father..that He is reconciling all men. so we are not without hope..as et people are

   at the seeming 'loss' of most of mankind...so that we may not 'sorrow' as they.    He who hopess in the Lord will not be

disappointed.

 

[WhiteWings]

hey ww...I had heard about that possibility before,a while back.    we live by 'every word' that comes from His mouth......

That's very well possible because it's part of a two millenia long debate. I don't even dare to assume I'm presenting something entirely new.
I always had the unproven thought "you shall not live on bread alone" is a wordplay (is that a correct English word?).
On the most simple level it seems to say you need both earthly and spiritual food in your life. The wordplay, I think, is that the statement on it's most simple level is wrong. To Live a person needs only bread. The person need both ordinary bread and Jesus-bread in his life.

The most 'new' part of my post is that what is prayed for isn't food that lasts a day but everlasting. Jesus is everlasting food

[ed]

I've been using the Lord's Prayer in my prayers lately.  It is spiritual.  I really don't focus on food.  Food has been always given.  "Seek first the kingdom of God and all these things will be added".  The kingdom of God is a spiritual reality and the Bread is our food for the daily spiritual walk.

Kingship and bread and the reality of Jesus Christ.  It is enough for the day.............every day.

.

[sheila]

Kingship and bread and reality of Jesus Christ. It is enough for the day every day.

    and that is the 'Promise" of the true bread from heaven..today tomorrow..everyday..without end.

[WhiteWings]

Kingship and bread and reality of Jesus Christ. It is enough for the day every day.

    and that is the 'Promise" of the true bread from heaven..today tomorrow..everyday..without end.

What does without an end mean to you?

a] Get a loaf of bread every day.
b] Get just one loaf of bread that lasts forever?

I think the verse is about option b.
Receive everlasting loaf Jesus today. Just once. That's all it takes. Just like God only gives everlasting life once. If He would give it daily or somehow renew it, it wouldn't be everlasting.

[ed]

a] Get a loaf of bread every day.
b] Get just one loaf of bread that lasts forever?

I think the verse is about option b.
Receive everlasting loaf Jesus today. Just once. That's all it takes. Just like God only gives everlasting life once. If He would give it daily or somehow renew it, it wouldn't be everlasting.

When they were waiting for the mama from heaven it happened whether they believed or not.

They surly got accustomed to knowing the bread would be there tomorrow.

I'm accustomed to knowing that the bread will be there tomorrow.

I like the dimension that you have shown.  I've never really thought of it that way before.

We don't worry about tomorrow because we know that the same one who has taken care of today will take care of tomorrow.

It is a rich part of faith..........too much bread will make you fat!

.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: My  :2c:....daily bread, daily communion with Him by which we walk and have His life.

The bread/letter eaten in the light/understanding given by the wine/Spirit, is true communion.

Same pattern as the church foundation being built on the apostles/letter and the prophets/Spirit, and of the two cherubim on the ark of the covenant.

The apostle/cherubim and the prophet/cherubim, commune together and He appears in the glory cloud in the midst of them, ie. He said to meet Him in THIS cloud.

There are those that cling to the letter, there are those that ascend in the Spirit, but it takes BOTH of them to meet in the cloud in agreement. Come, let us reason together...... :friendstu:

[eaglesway]

The hour is coming and now is that the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth because the Father seeks such to worship Him.

[joeteekay]

It is interesting that this thread reminds me of the upcoming Passover season. Given to the nation of Israel and kept by some  Christian groups. Many yet will need to recognize eventually that it is of the spirit and not of the letter even though reading Paul we see a desire by some through this eon  to Keep the passover physically.  He may have done so for a while since he did become one to win more to Christ. Am I off base?

1Co_9:20  And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

[eaglesway]

I think you are right on. The types and shadows that fore told the sacrifice of the Lamb have been mistaken as the substance by some, and they did not receive the revelation hidden in the ceremony..

Others keep the Passover tradition with the sacrifice of the Lamb in mind, some out of a mixture of legalism, some simply out of the enjoyment of expressing their culture or a sense of spiritual heritage.

Others do not keep it at all because they realize that that which was foreshadowed in the letter has been fulfilled in the spirit and they feel no unction to keep the tradition, and are free from it.

[joeteekay]

Right on. How true. Although I sometime wonder if the enjoyment of expressing their culture or a sense of spiritual heritage is just simply a degree of self righteousness that has been engrained by prior teachings.

:sigh:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Those are all reasons, but there are others. Those that were cut off for our sake, are our brothers and we witness to them. Also, there is so much love for Him you willingly and joyfully participate in revealing Him in all of it, that HE, not man, established. He is after all, the JEWISH Messiah who also reached out to the gentiles next.

The "Last Supper" was a Passover Seder just like what I will be celebrating, that He commanded them to do often in remembrance of Him. Passover was one of 3 feasts He commanded them to observe FOREVER. Forever doesn't have a stopping point.

The Jewish people started coming in to belief in Christ as their Messiah about 20 years ago, assisted in part by Gentile churches revealing Christ in the keeping of the feasts. Prior to that, some of Jewish people I know told me that were forbidden to even read a NT. If you can't read one, how much more does acting out Christ in the feasts and Shabbat witness? It's about being all things to all people, including the Jews. Blessings....

[micah7:9]

My thankfulness every morning and my wonderment of why every night, a breath in the morning and a breath still, at night...my daily bread. :dsunny: He is Risen.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen, He is risen!  :banana: :dsunny: :iagree:

[eaglesway]

:cloud9: Those are all reasons, but there are others. Those that were cut off for our sake, are our brothers and we witness to them. Also, there is so much love for Him you willingly and joyfully participate in revealing Him in all of it, that HE, not man, established. He is after all, the JEWISH Messiah who also reached out to the gentiles next.

The "Last Supper" was a Passover Seder just like what I will be celebrating, that He commanded them to do often in remembrance of Him. Passover was one of 3 feasts He commanded them to observe FOREVER. Forever doesn't have a stopping point.

The Jewish people started coming in to belief in Christ as their Messiah about 20 years ago, assisted in part by Gentile churches revealing Christ in the keeping of the feasts. Prior to that, some of Jewish people I know told me that were forbidden to even read a NT. If you can't read one, how much more does acting out Christ in the feasts and Shabbat witness? It's about being all things to all people, including the Jews. Blessings....

Forever has a stopping point when we want it too, and no stopping point when we don't want it to I guess. Actually the word was olam, which is not  really "forever"- but I would not argue the point for a Messianic Hebrew who believes that way. I think for a true Jewish believer keeping these feasts and sabbaths makes some sense. For a Gentile converted to Christ like me, I don't see any need to keep it, nor do I see any injunction from the word that would lead me to. As Paul says, "One man regards a day as holy, another man regards all days as holy. Let each one keep it as unto the Lord".

So much freedom in Christ to do as we see fit- as long as we do not try to place a yoke upon anyone else in regards to practices or doctrines or traditions that are not clearly portrayed in the word, like baptism or communion- which are clearly portrayed as appointed for this age- In my opinion, anyway :o)

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Actually, I agree with you, on most of what you said. Being led by His Spirit, whether to do or not to do, is between you and the Lord on this as in all things. That is true liberty, not in the outward manifestation of ANYTHING, be it keeping the feasts or baptisms, or fasts, or not to fast, ect. One common denominator is to seek His perfect will in all things.

As an example of what I'm saying here, decades ago, my little group was all fasting weekly. A new convert came in, and she was seeking Him about fasting with us. Thing was, this girl HATED TO EAT. She always said if there was a pill with everything she needed in it she could take and not be malnourished from it, she would happily do it. Nothing about eating appealed to her. So what fast did He tell her to do? You probably guessed it. She had to eat on our fast day.

Fulfilling the scripture that OBEDIENCE is better than sacrifice, is what being led of the Spirit is all about, and why we are not to JUDGE another's walk, because unless the SPIRIT has specifically told us something personal pertaining to that person's heart walk, we have no way of knowing BY THE OUTWARD.

If you didn't know what the Spirit had told her, and you came in and judged by the outward, she looked totally rebellious, compared to what the rest of us were doing. But ALL were being obedient to what He told each one to do, and in that, there was true liberty. Doesn't it just give you joy?  :banana:  Blessings....

[eaglesway]

Ahhh, I" desire obedience rather than sacrifice"- this is close to the core of what we are discussing I believe, and speaks to my heart volumes beyond what I "know" :o)

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen.....walking in the Spirit.....nothing like it. Surpasses all WE can think or do.  :thumbsup:

[eaglesway]

Today, if you hear His voice.....Let the one who has ears to hear hear what the Spirit is saying.....Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God......Give us this day our daily bread.

Today I was meditating upon the manna that fell for the Israelites in the wilderness. They had to gather it daily, before it turned to worms.

Gehenna is outside the city, were the fire is not quenched and their worm dieth not.

We cannot live off of "old words". They have to "living and active"....Behold I am making all things new.

The scribe in the kingdom brings forth from his treasure things both new and old. Written words made new by the breath of God, oracles, God-breathed.

What is He saying to me "Today"?

I desire obedience rather than sacrifice.

The towers and strongholds built of letters that kill have no life in them. They do not feed or give refuge to the weary.

"He has given me the tongue of the discipled that I might speak a word in season to the weary ones."

"All things are open to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do."

[Cardinal]

Today, if you hear His voice.....Let the one who has ears to hear hear what the Spirit is saying.....Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God......Give us this day our daily bread.

Today I was meditating upon the manna that fell for the Israelites in the wilderness. They had to gather it daily, before it turned to worms.

Gehenna is outside the city, were the fire is not quenched and their worm dieth not.

We cannot live off of "old words". They have to "living and active"....Behold I am making all things new.

The scribe in the kingdom brings forth from his treasure things both new and old. Written words made new by the breath of God, oracles, God-breathed.

What is He saying to me "Today"?

I desire obedience rather than sacrifice.

The towers and strongholds built of letters that kill have no life in them. They do not feed or give refuge to the weary.

"He has given me the tongue of the discipled that I might speak a word in season to the weary ones."

"All things are open to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do."

:cloud9: AMEN. And as I read this, I just got some fresh manna for my day.  :banana:

When we take ourselves outside the city/New Jerusalem that is from above (the assembly of the firstborn = Christ in the many) to NOT walk in the proceeding word of life TODAY that comes from the Father's mouth (to walk in THAT, is to walk in the Spirit, because CHRIST IS THAT SPIRIT), then WE cast ourselves into Gehenna where the worm dieth not.

The worm dieth not BECAUSE THERE'S STILL FLESH TO COMSUME. So with whatever He is dealing with, as we lay down the LIFE OF THAT THING, the worms do their perfect work of consuming the flesh of it (= where we were YESTERDAY), and then we are CLEAN (because contamination with a dead body meant you were ceremonially unclean) and can "enter the city" again.

Can you see this? The carnal fear mongering minds of men made Gehenna a horror and an abomination, but He has never left us nor forsaken us, and thru it He does a perfect work of circumcising the flesh off of HIS Spirit. 

Now, believe my witness or not, but this is why I have known for some 15 years that there IS a type of purgatory experience, because He took me with His Spirit in front of 5 witnesses, down into the bowels of the earth, into my mother's "purgatory", for the purpose of SETTING HER SOUL FREE. His arm is not so short it cannot reach into the depths of the stony hearts of men, and PULL THEM OUT. And because we know this, this is why we are not as those that have no hope (because they don't know Him and the power of His saving grace).

On the Day of Atonement, the High Priest prepared himself, and walked into the presence of God via grace and obtained mercy and walked out thru all the other courts, INCLUDING the outer court of darkness, and gave it to the people. And He has not stopped walking, He is a High Priest FOREVER after the order of Melchisedek! And He is raising up a priesthood JUST LIKE HIM, for SAVIORS (plural) shall arise on Mt. Zion.

How wonderful is His mercy, fresh every morning (for each new DAYSTAR to rise up out of the darkness (ignorance of death). Blessings.....:banana: :banana: :banana:

[WhiteWings]

then WE cast ourselves into Gehenna where the worm dieth not.

The worm dieth not BECAUSE THERE'S STILL FLESH TO COMSUME. So with whatever He is dealing with, as we lay down the LIFE OF THAT THING, the worms do their perfect work of consuming the flesh of it (= where we were YESTERDAY), and then we are CLEAN (because contamination with a dead body meant you were ceremonially unclean) and can "enter the city" again.

Can you see this? The carnal fear mongering minds of men made Gehenna a horror and an abomination, but He has never left us nor forsaken us,

I agree except with the plural worms. I think there is just one worm and Job 'says' this worm used to dye robes crimson, is Jesus.
BTW a worm. Not a maggot as some Bibles have it translated.
:2c:

[eaglesway]

Obadiah 1:21 The deliverers shall ascend Mt Zion to judge the mountain of Esau and the kingdom shall be the Lord's.

Rev 21:7 He that overcomes will inherit all things and I will be his God and he will be my son.

Eph 2:6,7 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with Him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages He might show the incomparable riches of His grace, expressed in His kindness to us in Christ Jesus.

Obadiah aligns with the words of John the Baptist in Luke 3;9 And now the axe is laid to the root of the trees and every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and cast into the fire, as well as John 15, where Jesus says I am the vine, you are the branches. If anyone abides in me, and I in them,  they will bear much fruit, for without me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in me, he will be cast forth as a branch and withered, then men gather them and throw them into the fire.

Ever been withered? :o)

In 1 Cor. 3:15, where it talks about wood hay and stubble and our works being tried by the fire/light of the Day, it says also, If any mans work that he has built remains(thru fire) he shall receive  reward. If any man's work is burned(consume by fire) he shall suffer loss but he himself shall be saved.

Then it says, "If any man defile/destroy the temple of God(speaking of false teaching and false motives), Him shall God destroy."

The word for destroy means "wither" as well as corrupt, ruin, destroy. God wither's and burns darkness/ bad fruit/ mixed motives with the fire of unapproachable light.

"to be tormented in the presence of God and His holy angels/messengers"

I think outer darkness(cast from the presence of God, falling out of the heavenly realms) withers, drying out the sap of the trees or branches that are to be cut off and gathered for the fire(kolassis as the sharper than any two edged sword prophetic word divides asunder and makes manifest the secrets of the heart).

All things are open to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do, and His eyes are as flames of fire.

"He makes his angels/messengers spirits, his ministers flames of fire" Psalm 104:4

Know ye not that ye shall judge angels?

And the courts sat and the books were opened.

Hmmm, the word of God is just so awesome and beautiful.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9:  And all the people said, AMEN  :thumbsup:

[Seth]

 :thumbsup: