Did God really command this stuff?

[Seth]

Jesus Christ himself gave them permission to stone her. But they didn't....

[sheila]

...the ole 'catch ' situation...let he who is without sin cast the first stone...........

...otherwise it would be judging the law in hypocrisy.........ye who say 'do not .... or .....do you do these things?

   Cor 10;6   I beleive this scripture touches on the same thing........

      AND WE WILL BE READY TO PUNISH EVERY ACT OF DISOBEDIENCE............[when?]

   ONCE YOUR OBEDIENCE IS COMPLETE!!!!!!!

   thus...judge not lest ye be judged...........

[Seth]

...the ole 'catch ' situation...let he who is without sin cast the first stone...........

...otherwise it would be judging the law in hypocrisy.........ye who say 'do not .... or .....do you do these things?

   Cor 10;6   I beleive this scripture touches on the same thing........

      AND WE WILL BE READY TO PUNISH EVERY ACT OF DISOBEDIENCE............[when?]

   ONCE YOUR OBEDIENCE IS COMPLETE!!!!!!!

   thus...judge not lest ye be judged...........

Yes exactly. If the Pharisees thought the Law commanded them to stone her, they should have, but they couldn't. Same with blasphemy. Christ was not a blasphemer, but they thought he was. Therefore, they should have stoned him according to the Law. But they knew the people would turn against them if they did.

[Seth]

BTW, this little passage is far greater importance that it seems. It's also about  cutting off the possibility for a future legit royal throne of Israel.

:2c:

I have to admit I am a bit lost on this one. Where did you get that info?

[sheila]

Ecc 3;16.......and I saw something else under the sun....In the place of judgement-wickedness

was there, in the place of justice-wickedness was there.  1 Tim 1;8    warning against false teachers

of the law.

[ed]

I'm going to post something from another thread.

I need some help on it.   I does not jive with my idea of God. 

Why the need for these laws in the first place?
When did they stop enforcing them and why?

If this is too heavy feel free to delete this post.

From another thread:

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

Kill False Prophets
1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)

Infidels and Gays Should Die
So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle
For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

[sheila]

Psalms 50;16  But to the wicked,God says..'What right have you to recite my laws or take my covenant

on your lips? You hate my instruction and cast my words behind you. when you see a theif you

  join with him; you throw in your lot with adulterer's. You use your mouth for evil and harness your

tougne to deceit. You speak continually against your brother,and slander your own mother's son.

  These things you have done..and I kept silent,you thought I was altogather like you. But,I

will rebuke you and accuse you to your face.[judge not lest ye be judged...let your love be free of

hypocrisy[for both God and your brother]

[Seth]

I'm going to post something from another thread.

I need some help on it.   I does not jive with my idea of God. 

Why the need for these laws in the first place?
When did they stop enforcing them and why?

If this is too heavy feel free to delete this post.

From another thread:

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

Kill False Prophets
1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)

Infidels and Gays Should Die
So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle
For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

These laws weren't followed at least not in common practice. I believe God gave them to reveal the hypocrisy of those who condemned, knowing they were also worthy of death. if they couldn't even manage to tithe correctly according to Malachi, they certainly couldn't kill other people.

[sheila]

...well...the law was added[not the promise] because of the increasing of sin...the law was to reveal

what sin was and show that God was not like that..it was written against lawlessness.   death was deemed

the proper judgement of such things.

  take for instance...the putting to death of the son that strikes his parents[is that not an unlawful act?

even today..assault charges by the governmental authorities would be instituted....soft-pedal it

and we see on the news children bludgeoning their parents to death,stabbing,shooting....the severity

escalates until even thegovernments impose the death penalty.  It acted as a restraint..against..

the lawless acts..from fear of the authorities now days..and God's authority back then.

anlittle evil spoils much good[one bad apple spoils the whole bushel if not removed]

    Nevertheless...God's law was much more merciful then the laws/discipline of the  surrounding

nations at that time[skin alive..cut in two,boil alive draw and quater etc]

[sheila]

another thing Ed....the law showed that such things made a man dead in tresspass and sin..to God.

   but sin in the flesh has been condemned in all men...under the law..and death has come to all men

through sin entering the first Adam. But there shall be no more doom and gloom...for God is no lnger

counting men's tresspasses against them...through His son..but instead giving them undeserved kindness

healing and eternal life..

[sheila]

...and Ed..if you can accept this.......God said 'let us make man in our image and likeness[incorrupt,

eternal..reflecting His glorious nature] but satan said unto man'let us make ourselves in God's likeness"

  and satan's corrupted image became man's likeness and image....and this is rightly condmened

of God.  That man should bear a corrupt image is rejected of God...His commandment'let us make man

in our image and likeness" was unto life eternal......

[dajomaco]

Since I am speaking to those who understand law, brothers, are you unaware that the law has authority over someone as long as he lives?  2 For example, a married woman is legally bound to her husband while he lives. But if her husband dies, she is released from the law regarding the husband.  3 So then, if she gives herself to another man while her husband is living, she will be called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is free from that law. Then, if she gives herself to another man, she is not an adulteress.

4 Therefore, my brothers, you also were put to death in relation to the law through the crucified body of the Messiah, so that you may belong to another—to Him who was raised from the dead—that we may bear fruit for God.  5 For when we were in the flesh,[a] the sinful passions operated through the law in every part of us and bore fruit for death.  6 But now we have been released from the law, since we have died to what held us, so that we may serve in the new way[c] of the Spirit and not in the old letter of the law.

[eaglesway]

I think they did not stone the adultres because Jesus was writing their sins in the dirt and standing in the presence of the one by whom God will judge the secrets of every heart, they wer put on notice, and feared to judge her, lest they be judged themselves.

As you judge so shall you be judged.

"The one who has shown no mercy will be shown no mercy"

"Mercy triumphs over judgment" (but judgement reveals the need of mercy)

[eaglesway]

I'm going to post something from another thread.

I need some help on it.   I does not jive with my idea of God. 

Why the need for these laws in the first place?
When did they stop enforcing them and why?

If this is too heavy feel free to delete this post.

From another thread:

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Death for Blasphemy
One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the LORD's name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother's name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the LORD's will in the matter should become clear. Then the LORD said to Moses, "Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the LORD's name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the LORD's name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16 NLT)

Kill False Prophets
1) Suppose there are prophets among you, or those who have dreams about the future, and they promise you signs or miracles, and the predicted signs or miracles take place. If the prophets then say, 'Come, let us worship the gods of foreign nations,' do not listen to them. The LORD your God is testing you to see if you love him with all your heart and soul. Serve only the LORD your God and fear him alone. Obey his commands, listen to his voice, and cling to him. The false prophets or dreamers who try to lead you astray must be put to death, for they encourage rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of slavery in the land of Egypt. Since they try to keep you from following the LORD your God, you must execute them to remove the evil from among you. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5 NLT)

2) But any prophet who claims to give a message from another god or who falsely claims to speak for me must die.' You may wonder, 'How will we know whether the prophecy is from the LORD or not?' If the prophet predicts something in the LORD's name and it does not happen, the LORD did not give the message. That prophet has spoken on his own and need not be feared. (Deuteronomy 18:20-22 NLT)

Infidels and Gays Should Die
So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (Romans 1:24-32 NLT)

Kill Anyone who Approaches the Tabernacle
For the LORD had said to Moses, 'Exempt the tribe of Levi from the census; do not include them when you count the rest of the Israelites. You must put the Levites in charge of the Tabernacle of the Covenant, along with its furnishings and equipment. They must carry the Tabernacle and its equipment as you travel, and they must care for it and camp around it. Whenever the Tabernacle is moved, the Levites will take it down and set it up again. Anyone else who goes too near the Tabernacle will be executed.' (Numbers 1:48-51 NLT)

Kill People for Working on the Sabbath
The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)

As I posted before, death has been the penalty for sin since the garden, whether you see that allegorically or historically or spiritually or all of the above :o)

Since the beginning there has been chaos amongst men. God's plan involved, from the foundation of the world, light shining out of darkness- chaos as a seed bed for the revelation of God's love being the root of divine order and the prime directive/cause of all His works.

This has been a step by step revelation to all mankind. Paul calls it the "administration of the fulness(completion) of times, the gathering together into one of all things in Christ.

Righteousness was revealed in Abel. The consequence of death became the envelope for the word of life- fulfilled in Christ Jesus. If Abraham was the "first light" of the kingdom of God throu faith, then His children, through Israel and now all believers are the growing envelope of the revelation to all, thru death, again, because we are "as sheep led to slaughter" filling up the sufferings of Christ for the world- His body.

If you are crucified with Christ it is not you who live, but Christ in you.

The law was a step to love, a lesson in futility digging out the heart of man to recieve love/resurrection/life of Christ...... by its very insufficiency. But man needed to see it.

"WHen it is in my mind to do good it is rite then that evil works through me- who will free me from the body of this death"

Thank God for Jesus Christ, there is now therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh".

These laws were necessary because God, for whatever reason, has been building the new creation in steps. The higher law, the law of love/self sacrifice- a free gift has shown us that the only was to fulfill the law is to love our neighbor, and the only way to love our neighbor is to love the god who created our neighbor.

"If you cannot love your neighbor who you have seen, how can you love God whom you have not seen" (the apostle John).

In order to understand Gods ways and His purpose we have to get in on the "back plan". The architectural drawing of God's plan to hav fellowship with an enlightened community- enlightened by light shining out of darkness, love out of death and chaos.

So weird, until you get a glimpse of it- then so glorious when we realize it will envelope all creation and every being who ever lived in a forever-song of grace and love and redemption. This burning seed of love is Christ thru whom all things were created, planted through death into the heart of darkness, then becoming a matrix of lif, light and love that is consuming the darkness from within and transforming all into light.

Wow. I love this God who is my Father and Creator for His wisdom and beauty- and for bringing me into it as a son of His love, a son of glory- and a minister of reconciliation.

[micah7:9]

"....Jesus was writing their sins in the dirt ..." I have always, for many years, thought that Jesus was making a work in the dirt because these words they spoke, He knew, came simply from His knowledge of just what they were made of....dust/dirt/human beings/flesh. I believe He was sad as He made lines in the dirt. Just me. :2c:

[dajomaco]

I like that idea of Jesus just moving dirt.
Law could only separate one kind of dirt from another.
Dust is just that dust.
The spirit is breathed from God .
When the breath of God is removed we just have dust.

[Seth]

"....Jesus was writing their sins in the dirt ..." I have always, for many years, thought that Jesus was making a work in the dirt because these words they spoke, He knew, came simply from His knowledge of just what they were made of....dust/dirt/human beings/flesh. I believe He was sad as He made lines in the dirt. Just me. :2c:

I always thought that it signified that Christ was the one who wrote the Law, and he was bringing a New Covenant, one he was about to demonstrate.

I like all the ideas presented on that though.

[ed]

As I posted before, death has been the penalty for sin since the garden, whether you see that allegorically or historically or spiritually or all of the above :o)

Since the beginning there has been chaos amongst men. God's plan involved, from the foundation of the world, light shining out of darkness- chaos as a seed bed for the revelation of God's love being the root of divine order and the prime directive/cause of all His works.

This has been a step by step revelation to all mankind. Paul calls it the "administration of the fulness(completion) of times, the gathering together into one of all things in Christ.

Righteousness was revealed in Abel. The consequence of death became the envelope for the word of life- fulfilled in Christ Jesus. If Abraham was the "first light" of the kingdom of God throu faith, then His children, through Israel and now all believers are the growing envelope of the revelation to all, thru death, again, because we are "as sheep led to slaughter" filling up the sufferings of Christ for the world- His body.

If you are crucified with Christ it is not you who live, but Christ in you.

The law was a step to love, a lesson in futility digging out the heart of man to recieve love/resurrection/life of Christ...... by its very insufficiency. But man needed to see it.

"WHen it is in my mind to do good it is rite then that evil works through me- who will free me from the body of this death"

Thank God for Jesus Christ, there is now therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh".

These laws were necessary because God, for whatever reason, has been building the new creation in steps. The higher law, the law of love/self sacrifice- a free gift has shown us that the only was to fulfill the law is to love our neighbor, and the only way to love our neighbor is to love the god who created our neighbor.

"If you cannot love your neighbor who you have seen, how can you love God whom you have not seen" (the apostle John).

In order to understand Gods ways and His purpose we have to get in on the "back plan". The architectural drawing of God's plan to hav fellowship with an enlightened community- enlightened by light shining out of darkness, love out of death and chaos.

So weird, until you get a glimpse of it- then so glorious when we realize it will envelope all creation and every being who ever lived in a forever-song of grace and love and redemption. This burning seed of love is Christ thru whom all things were created, planted through death into the heart of darkness, then becoming a matrix of lif, light and love that is consuming the darkness from within and transforming all into light.

Wow. I love this God who is my Father and Creator for His wisdom and beauty- and for bringing me into it as a son of His love, a son of glory- and a minister of reconciliation.

Very nice EW.
Thanks for taking the time on that.

I was perplexed today with God giving the law that could not be followed.  A paradox it seems.
One of many.  A tree that He knew they would eat from, a command to sacrifice a son with no real desire, The Law given that only one could do, The Son of the Almighty dying in the hand of His creation, light in the midst of darkness.

.

[eaglesway]

Yes indeed, light in the midst of darkness..... And the light was the life of men & the light shines in the darkness & the darkness cannot overcome it (Gospel of John  chptr 1)

[micah7:9]

I like that idea of Jesus just moving dirt.
Law could only separate one kind of dirt from another.
Dust is just that dust.
The spirit is breathed from God .
When the breath of God is removed we just have dust.

Amen :dsunny:

[eaglesway]

What is the explanation?

Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

the thing is, whether this is literal or not( for me ,history sort of proves that it is because that is just how it happened) these are the words of God, spoken through the prophets. At some point we have to stop making God after our own image, even if the image we see displeases us.

God uses death and pain to judge and to purge. Get over it(jus kiddin). Either that or the scriptures upon which we base our faith are myths and poems and platitudes and allegories and Hey, that's alright if thats what we beileve- but there is no having it both ways. We may not agree with what they mean, but either we agree that they are holy words spoken by anointed men or we do not. If we do not, then our conversations must be held on a different basis- strictly limited to interpretations of the meanings of myths and allegories. If we agree that they are holy words breathd of God- oracles as the writer of Hebrews says, histories written for our exampl as Paul tells the Corinthians- then we are stuck with the fact thaT God has done things we abhor for reasons we do not understand- or do not want to understand.

According to what I read this whole age will come to a close in a cacaphony of violence, treachery, martyrdom and war.

Is God in control or is He not?

[Seth]

the thing is, whether this is literal or not( for me ,history sort of proves that it is because that is just how it happened) these are the words of God, spoken through the prophets. At some point we have to stop making God after our own image, even if the image we see displeases us.

I agree. But at the same time, I don't read in the Bible where this actually did happen exactly as described. If it does, then I stand corrected. God did command violence, and I agree, it's his prerogative to do so, but when it comes to the prophecies, I am a bit more open to the idea that they didn't happen the way we might think.

On the one hand in Jeremiah we read that it never entered God's mind to burn children to death in fire. But here we read that God will cause little children to be dashed to death before their eyes. Hmmm.....

Here is some info on ancient hyperbole in the Bible: http://tektonics.org/gk/hyperbole.php (it's Teknonics so it is an ET site)

It's worth a read. When I look at Isaiah and all the other prophets, I am open to the idea that the fulfillment of these prophecies has nothing to do with a literal fulfillment. Maybe it does, but MAYBE is a big word. I am not prepared to be firm doctrinally, in stone, that these things happened literally word for word if it doesn't say so in the Bible.

[sheila]

 :thumbsup: ew  well said.Did God really say that on the day ye eat from the tokogae ye shall die?

     there is both a severity and tender mercy found in God in His judgements.  the severity can be found

  in the consequences of sin and death entering into all men.  the mercies...and GREAT THEY ARE!

  of the resurrection and free gift of eternal life through His son..as He prevails in His original purpose

to make  'man' in our image[in the beginning was the word]Obedient sons/not disobedient

    the consequential suffering of all men in the flesh[sinful] is severe[look about and see the

tears,mourning..pain.....death and outcry] but He has cut it short....and the spirit of love endures with

man to restore him.  those He loves[mankind] He disciplines and scourges.  we are not to give out

  though this exercize in evil is greivous[prince of this world judged that his works are wicked]


          He says 'I will not always find fault...lest the spirit fail"   He shall deliver us from the wicked.....

   though  He lay down His own life to drag us up with Him from the very grave.......

    and so...at this time of consummation....His wrath is turned from man an directed against.....

   the 'hammer that  exalts itself above the God of heaven" the bruised 'heel'.....that crushes the
head[rebellion]...

  by the blueness of a wound..the evil is scoured from it......until then....the whole creation groans.........

    yeah though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death...I shall fear no evil..forThou art

with me.

     He seals up that 'breech' when He come in flesh and lay down His life........to reconcile us back

to Himself eternally...for we are flesh of His flesh and bone of His bone...and the etrnal loss of mankind

   is the same as Him losing a part of His very self......and though He hid His face for but a moment....

    He shall receive us back as a wife who married young and then was rejected..........

    for ye shall be called 'searched for' and sought after...and your 'land' shall be married...and

we shall forget the shame[folly] of our youth.  And He says..do not fear..you shall not be put to shame

   [though we have dwelt in this body of our humiliation]  for those who hope in Him shall never be

put to shame..

...and we have a sure hope in His love..that it will not fail.... for love is as strong as death..it's jealousy

as unyeilding as the grave. It burns like a blazing fire,like a mighty flame....


   the spirit of rebellion in men shall be thorougly purged forever........[manhas found it a very fearful

thing to fall into the hands of the TRUE GOD and SOVEREIGN]

   THIS IS WHAT THE SOVEREIGN SAYS, YOUR GOD WHO DEFENDS HIS PEOPLE; SEE,I HAVE

TAKEN OUT OF YOUR HAND THE CUP THAT MADE YOU STAGGER;FROM THAT CUP,THE GOBLET

OF MY WRATH,YOU SHALL NEVER DRINK AGAIN. I WILL PUT IT INTO THE HAND OF YOUR TORMENTORS

WHO SAID TO YOU...'FALL PROSTRATE THAT WE MAY WALK ALL OVER YOU, AND YOU MADE

YOUR BACK LIKE THE GROUND,A STREET TO BE WALKED OVER

[micah7:9]

Gary, I believe did a paper on this sometime back, and he was pretty good at making it clear to me. I had really no knowledge of the word "hyperbole," but Gary settled my mind when I read now.

[eaglesway]

the thing is, whether this is literal or not( for me ,history sort of proves that it is because that is just how it happened) these are the words of God, spoken through the prophets. At some point we have to stop making God after our own image, even if the image we see displeases us.

I agree. But at the same time, I don't read in the Bible where this actually did happen exactly as described. If it does, then I stand corrected. God did command violence, and I agree, it's his prerogative to do so, but when it comes to the prophecies, I am a bit more open to the idea that they didn't happen the way we might think.

On the one hand in Jeremiah we read that it never entered God's mind to burn children to death in fire. But here we read that God will cause little children to be dashed to death before their eyes. Hmmm.....

Here is some info on ancient hyperbole in the Bible: http://tektonics.org/gk/hyperbole.php (it's Teknonics so it is an ET site)

It's worth a read. When I look at Isaiah and all the other prophets, I am open to the idea that the fulfillment of these prophecies has nothing to do with a literal fulfillment. Maybe it does, but MAYBE is a big word. I am not prepared to be firm doctrinally, in stone, that these things happened literally word for word if it doesn't say so in the Bible.

I just don't believe God indulges in hyperbole. Any study cursory of ancient war will make it plain that the wars of the Assyrians, the Romans, the Visgoths etc, etc were frequently executed in exactly the ways described. That doesnt make me rite, but again.....at some point we have to take as the word of God or not. These were the words of the prophets.