The wrath of the Lamb

[ed]

Revelation 6:15-16. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

??????

I really don't understand revelation.

Does the Lamb really have to strike back?

.

[ed]

THE WRATH OF THE LAMB!!!!!

:Chinscratch:

:eek:


:laugh:


:icon_jokercolor:

[eaglesway]

If we werent so stubborn, He could just sweet talk us all into line  :laugh:

[ed]

If we werent so stubborn, He could just sweet talk us all into line  :laugh:

Well the Lamb herding us like cows would not be nearly as awful.

1 Cor 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

Yup that has to be it.  The paradox of the tough guys of the world getting beat up by a lamb.

[rosered]

 

  Hi Ed and John
     for me beliving this  , the wrath of the Lamb    will be putting all enemies under His feet / VICTORY OVER  death/every mans  reward for sin   and by His Word teaching /giving His Life to them /Spirit and truth  in their hearts  a true treasure  that is incorruuptible  cannot be destroyed   , and this helps me NLT see it  even more plainly  :thumbsup:



1Cr 15:20 But in fact, Christ has been raised from the dead. He is the first of a great harvest of all who have died. 


1Cr 15:21 So you see, just as death came into the world through a man, now the resurrection from the dead has begun through another man. 
1Cr 15:22 Just as everyone dies because we all belong to Adam, everyone who belongs to Christ will be given new life. 


1Cr 15:23 But there is an order to this resurrection: Christ was raised as the first of the harvest; then all who belong to Christ will be raised when he comes back.  


1Cr 15:24 After that the end will come, when he will turn the Kingdom over to God the Father, having destroyed every ruler and authority and power.  


1Cr 15:25 For Christ must reign until he humbles all his enemies beneath his feet.  


1Cr 15:26 And the last enemy to be destroyed is death. 


1Cr 15:27 For the Scriptures say, "God has put all things under his authority." [fn] (Of course, when it says "all things are under his authority," that does not include God himself, who gave Christ his authority.) 


1Cr 15:28 Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God's authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.

[Seth]

Revelation 6:15-16. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

??????

I really don't understand revelation.

Does the Lamb really have to strike back?

.

I think this has alot to do with what we saw in Revelation 19, and compared to the following scripture:

John 3
19"This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20"For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light FOR FEAR that his deeds will be exposed. 21"But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."

Truth can come across as very wrathful to people whose deeds are evil, because it exposes. So they would rather hide in the darkness.

[rosered]

 
  so the Lamb is destroying the FALSE / LIARS AND THOSE trying to  as GOD   giving glory to His Holy heavenly Father all the while by HIS WORD /SWORD !

here in these verses we can see the SWORD / WORD OF GOD  out of HIS MOUTH  , we hear His Voice as sheep and we hear what the Spirit is  saying to the churches   the seed is the Word of God incorruptible


and when the seed /word of God is planted in your heart it becomes the Christ in you the hope of glory to our FATHER AS WELL  , from enemies of the cross to   friends , brothers and servants  , vessels fit for the masters use


Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.


Rev 2:12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;


  two edeged     doing both at the same time    the killing  the old man of sin  who is being as God  and making ALVE  a new creature in Christ .



Rev 2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.



Rev 6:4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
its the TRUTH  AND SPIRIT waging war against the false and liars !!  fake imposters   that the docrtine of devils has polluted with lies against God   , we can see several examples in the Old testament  , Elijah     , Moses   etc ..

Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

  death has no place    for the fear and tormesnt of it  IS ITS only power over a man whom sin has  entered     , when the Wrtah of the Lamb comes to  destroy death  and its rider  and the  horse / spirit it rode in on !!! 


Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.


Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.



  those whom dwell on the earth veses those whom are now seated with Christ in heavenly places !! , its a mindset   that is how we think and act on !

n fear or in  faith and  loyalty to Jesus  to save us  and make a way to the Father !

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


till they submit to the will of God though Jesus Christ every son that is recived is chastened of the Lord  and for our own benefit !


Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.


  now this one is tricky  , if you dont see this  , its  hard to understand  , but we know that no flesh pleases God  ,   so the fowls  of the air   eat up the flesh and make  what ?

a new creature in Christ that is not   flesh and blood anylonger , but  born again of Spirit and truth , its the  two edged Sword that kills and makes ALIVE      this is what the  new  heavens and earth are made of     saints /holy ones      that  are gathered in Christ and are subject to HIM !!     under His feet authority and   rule     which is the victroy song in heaven !!   

power over satan /adversary   the liar and father of it and murderer from the begining !!
 
out with the old and  in with the NEW ! JESUS makes all things new  and presented alive to the Father   to his glory !!! :dsunny:    shining  lightness and no darkness at all anylonger

[rosered]

Revelation 6:15-16. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

??????

I really don't understand revelation.

Does the Lamb really have to strike back?

.

I think this has alot to do with what we saw in Revelation 19, and compared to the following scripture:

John 3
19"This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20"For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light FOR FEAR that his deeds will be exposed. 21"But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."

Truth can come across as very wrathful to people whose deeds are evil, because it exposes. So they would rather hide in the darkness.

wow posting at the same time and agree  seth , the darkness is  swallowed up in the LIGHT / KNOWLEDGE OF GOD   though Jesus Christ   for the Victory song !!
  one more sinner who repents changes his mind / heart    towards God 

[Seth]

Yup, out with the old, in with the new. It's so natural for the flesh to resist that. It's within man to resist letting go of his flesh. It's like our prized possession, but God isn't having it. I believe one of the biggest resistances to the Gospel is the idea that we have to disregard that which has been our rock and our comfort, and move into the Spirit.

Nobody wants to be told what to believe, what to do....Everyone wants to hide in their own rock, in their own cave and fear the light.

The wrath of the lamb is in a CUP, which everyone must DRINK. Jesus drank it in his physical flesh, but his disciples drank it at his table in a spiritual way, and soon enough everyone will drink from the cup of God's wrath and be saved from the flesh.

[rosered]

Yup, out with the old, in with the new. It's so natural for the flesh to resist that. It's within man to resist letting go of his flesh. It's like our prized possession, but God isn't having it. I believe one of the biggest resistances to the Gospel is the idea that we have to disregard that which has been our rock and our comfort, and move into the Spirit.

Nobody wants to be told what to believe, what to do....Everyone wants to hide in their own rock, in their own cave and fear the light.

The wrath of the lamb is in a CUP, which everyone must DRINK. Jesus drank it in his physical flesh, but his disciples drank it at his table in a spiritual way, and soon enough everyone will drink from the cup of God's wrath and be saved from the flesh.

Yes Seth , we MUST eat His body  and drink His Blood that we might have LIFE in us !! 

  and we do this till the Lord  in revealed in us  and to us !!  His return to  gather into Himself His  own  :winkgrin:

[Seth]

Yup and the whole world must drink from that cup  :dsunny:

[rosered]

Yup and the whole world must drink from that cup  :dsunny:

amen  to that ! :dsunny:  what a glorious GOD we serve !!  His perfect work  that we  ALL may understand it !!  :HeartThrob:

[ed]

Wow.  You folks are blowing my mind. 

Thanks you for your time. 

Awesome perspective.

.

[ed]

Great stuff.

The 1000 years...................real or figurative?  When is the return of Christ that Paul talks of?

Mixing threads here but when your hot, your hot!

[Seth]

I believe there will be two resurrections because there is a pattern discussed in Hebrews 8 and continues in chapter 9. This is why Christ returns a second time: because everyone is destined once to die, then the judgment. So, he is fitting the pattern by coming back a second time. There is a very strong pattern of TWO in the Bible. Two Covenants, Two Sons, Sheep and Goats, Wheat and Tares, Isaac and Ishmael, the free-woman and the bond-woman, Mt. Sinai and Mt. Zion, so on..

So, I do believe there will be two resurrections. But, will the reign be 1,000 years literally? I don't know. There is reason to believe the the number 1,000 represents totality, or completeness (ie our deliverance form sin starts in the flesh and is completed at our resurrection with new bodies):

Isaiah 60:21-22
Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever (olam), the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified. A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the Lord will hasten it in his time. (signifying growth from weakness into great strength)

Psalm 50:10
For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills. (signifying totality, God owns the cattle on all hills, not literally just a thousand)

Psalm 84:10
For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness. (signifying that one day in his courts is better than all days in tents of wickedness)

So maybe the reign is not necessarily a literal thousand years, but signifies the strengthening, or completeness of those who are in the blessed first resurrection and are not hurt unto the second death. As for when this all happens, I really don't know.

[rosered]

Great stuff.

The 1000 years...................real or figurative?  When is the return of Christ that Paul talks of?

Mixing threads here but when your hot, your hot!

Hi Ed ,   God bless your heart!! many questions   that we all ask , and believe me have asked the Lord for  HIS Wisdom  and understanding on so many of these things  and many years  asking and searching them out , to  just grasp a little  bit  of it  and settle within  our  own hearts His Truth  and Spirit   , because this kind of stuff causes us to be ''restless ''  in not knowing the ways of God

one thing I  always believed  from the begining was  I dont know how God will do this perfect work , but I trust God  that is IS PERFECT !!  Complete entire and lacks nothing !!

  the thousand year reign of Christ ,to me and have  read many perspectives on that  subject and nothing quite    settled  so secure as to what  it was

  But asking God and the Holy Spirit leading into His Word , has helped me to understand  this  much and will share it 
it does not fit  alot of folks ''  train of thought ''but it  sure does ''comfort me'' to understand this  much  , but   you must ask the Lord for yourself  , to  show you '' Himself ''.

First there are a few  simple   truths you  get  first     , it took a while  to just get them simple truths   as building blocks of faith   I will call them  :Peace2:   

  the days of our flesh       and how God shortened the days  or no flesh would be saved

Adam lived   930 years and died  Gen 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.    in Psalms  90   we see that God in His mercy made the days of our flesh   70   or 80 by  strength  , shortened them days .

I took the 930 of Adam  and added the 70 and its 1000 YEARS as is a DAY unto the Lord    the LORDS DAY    , So  is  Israel into captivity in Babylon for 70 years also  [those days of their flesh

 
some die in the flesh still being slaves to Babylon   ,  just as some  die literally before the 70 years   as promised in Psalms

what we need to understand  is the destrution of our flesh is not a bad thing  , but realize that no good thing dwells in our flesh as Paul states and that satan  can destroy our flesh as God  gave that  portin of the dust for his food [ Gen 3;14 -15 serpent  on its belly eat dust all the days of its life ]    and what can the serpent eat when you are no longer    dust ?     dust you are and dust you shall return   in  old Adam ,   look at Job  for an example   and Paul sating  turn  one over to satan for the destruction of his flesh[dust is scattered ] so in the DAY of the Lord he will be saved
  NLT  for clarity 
though I do love   the  way all  the  different  versions  can help or hinder  us to either get it or place more doubt , thats when you just got to trust and pray to God for some revealing His  mysterious plan of salvation  to us  and be patient and wait on the Lord  .  He is not slack in keeping His promises .

Psa 90:1 A prayer of Moses, the man of God.

Lord, through all the generations
you have been our home!



Psa 90:2 Before the mountains were born,
before you gave birth to the earth and the world,
from beginning to end, you are God.


Psa 90:3 You turn people back to dust, saying,
"Return to dust, you mortals!"


Psa 90:4 For you, a thousand years are as a passing day,
as brief as a few night hours.


Psa 90:5 You sweep people away like dreams that disappear.
They are like grass that springs up in the morning.



Psa 90:6 In the morning it blooms and flourishes,
but by evening it is dry and withered.



Psa 90:7 We wither beneath your anger;
we are overwhelmed by your fury.



Psa 90:8 You spread out our sins before you—
our secret sins—and you see them all.



Psa 90:9 We live our lives beneath your wrath,
ending our years with a groan.



Psa 90:10 Seventy years are given to us!
Some even live to eighty.
But even the best years are filled with pain and trouble;
soon they disappear, and we fly away.



Psa 90:11 Who can comprehend the power of your anger?
Your wrath is as awesome as the fear you deserve.



Psa 90:12 Teach us to realize the brevity of life,
so that we may grow in wisdom.


Psa 90:13 O LORD, come back to us!
How long will you delay?
Take pity on your servants!



Psa 90:14 Satisfy us each morning with your unfailing love,
so we may sing for joy to the end of our lives.



Psa 90:15 Give us gladness in proportion to our former misery!
Replace the evil years with good.



Psa 90:16 Let us, your servants, see you work again;
let our children see your glory.



Psa 90:17 And may the Lord our God show us his approval
and make our efforts successful.
Yes, make our efforts successful! 


Psa 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.


Ecc 6:6 Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?



2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

I believ its just trying to grasp the thoughts of  the way God is   teaching us  new creatures in Christ its a new and living way   ,  that  we can put no stock in this flesh nor   this  very temporary world ,       that when Jesus said I am the ressurection and the Life  , and though   you  may die , YOU WILL LIVE  Do you believe Me !!    I DO JESUS I really do 

 
the Day of the Lord  is when we are made in His IMAGE and  not the old adam  any longer  , our hope is not in this life but in HIM  , we are Hid in Him 


Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

all of Rev 20 is amazing  , for me I believe those whom  go  straight to Jesus and stand before Him  Daniel  saw this vision   in DAN 7 !
I dont understand all of it but also believe those  clothed in White are what make up the great white throne judgment     , you shall judge angels [messengers ]  and the likes  of the firey stream that issues  forth  ,       

I do believe that where there  was no law  there was no trasgression   , because knowledge of the Law is  the knowledge of sin and many have never been given that  , so the aquittal   is what they  get , mercy without Judgment

I believe we are accountable for what God gives us in this , to KNOW to do  good and do it not this is SIN / error

this is how all will be judged  in my opinion , those works  whom   the Fire of which God is love and Spirit and a consuming fire        we are also becoming the  fire [ look how Jesus is described in   rev !  His eyes are a  fire and feet as burnished bronze  , we know by the transfiguration   , when they witnessed His brightness and glow and described this in  human terms thats hard to express



Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, again to decieve the nations

I believe the first ressurrection is being apart of the BODY OF CHRIST  , and there is no harm done to them whom are already   become a part of Him  and how He is described as being ,  His firey ministers /partakers  with Him !  they cannot be decieved anylonger !       the Cross to me is the most pivotal Being of vital or central importance; crucial  point anyone who is a believer can  get and understand , its changed the course  of everything !!!
   the dead  still dont know anything    still in fear /torment  , but its the   LORD WHOM  SAVES THEM IN THE END
  a change is going to come !!  we can bank on all shall SEE HIM AS HE IS SEEN ! 
Just some thoughts on the 1000 years  , again  its just some  thoughts  about this

[rosered]

  again we were writing  at the same time !!!  :dsunny:   

    with God all things are possible

[gregoryfl]

Psalm 50:10
For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills. (signifying totality, God owns the cattle on all hills, not literally just a thousand)

Psalm 84:10
For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness. (signifying that one day in his courts is better than all days in tents of wickedness)[/color]

So maybe the reign is not necessarily a literal thousand years, but signifies the strengthening, or completeness of those who are in the blessed first resurrection and are not hurt unto the second death. As for when this all happens, I really don't know.

Regarding the word 'aleph' which means thousand, when used as a Hebrew idiom, that is exactly what it means, the entirety or totality of something. I will leave it to others to decide whether that is the meaning Yochanan had in mind in his writing.

Ronen

[ed]

Wow.

Thanks for taking the time to expound.

Blows my mind that what the Spirit is doing in me and  I perceive intuitively is illuminated by those who have put in the time in the scriptures. 

Beautiful work.  Thank you all.

.

[Seth]

  again we were writing  at the same time !!!  :dsunny:   

    with God all things are possible

Your posts are like chicken soup for me  :dsunny:

[Seth]

Psalm 50:10
For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills. (signifying totality, God owns the cattle on all hills, not literally just a thousand)

Psalm 84:10
For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness. (signifying that one day in his courts is better than all days in tents of wickedness)[/color]

So maybe the reign is not necessarily a literal thousand years, but signifies the strengthening, or completeness of those who are in the blessed first resurrection and are not hurt unto the second death. As for when this all happens, I really don't know.

Regarding the word 'aleph' which means thousand, when used as a Hebrew idiom, that is exactly what it means, the entirety or totality of something. I will leave it to others to decide whether that is the meaning Yochanan had in mind in his writing.

Ronen

:thumbsup: Me too. I just think the thousand year reign is mysterious. I don't want to discount the idea of a literal reign of 1,000 years, but the way Revelation is written, it just seems to lean toward the understanding of the completion of the the saints and their empowerment.

[rosered]

Wow.

Thanks for taking the time to expound.

Blows my mind that what the Spirit is doing in me and  I perceive intuitively is illuminated by those who have put in the time in the scriptures. 

Beautiful work.  Thank you all.

.

I believe its the Lords Spirit moving within us all Ed and    moving and shaking those things that need to be removed and placing    His unmovable ROCK OF SALVATION      within us all whom hear His Voice   showing you just how much He loves you bro  and us , no lie  3 days ago  before   the Lord sent  some ministering   spirits in my sis and   old friend and niece    ,  , I was dead inside    ,   you  could have   blown  my flesh as dust in a windstorm   !!!      and was asking for His help and  now   today  a chatter box  :doh: 

   Gods Spirit moves  and shakes us and its a good thing not a bad thing at all       ,  the flesh is just afraid   but the Spirit is   ready and willing and able 


NLT for clarity   Hebrews 12    God is  awesome !!! 

12:18 You have not come to a physical mountain, to a place of flaming fire, darkness, gloom, and whirlwind, as the Israelites did at Mount Sinai. 


Hbr 12:19 For they heard an awesome trumpet blast and a voice so terrible that they begged God to stop speaking. 


Hbr 12:20 They staggered back under God's command: "If even an animal touches the mountain, it must be stoned to death."

Hbr 12:21 Moses himself was so frightened at the sight that he said, "I am terrified and trembling." 


Hbr 12:22 No, you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to countless thousands of angels in a joyful gathering. 


Hbr 12:23 You have come to the assembly of God's firstborn children, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God himself, who is the judge over all things. You have come to the spirits of the righteous ones in heaven who have now been made perfect.  


Hbr 12:24 You have come to Jesus, the one who mediates the new covenant between God and people, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks of forgiveness instead of crying out for vengeance like the blood of Abel. 



Hbr 12:25 Be careful that you do not refuse to listen to the One who is speaking. For if the people of Israel did not escape when they refused to listen to Moses, the earthly messenger, we will certainly not escape if we reject the One who speaks to us from heaven! 


Hbr 12:26 When God spoke from Mount Sinai his voice shook the earth, but now he makes another promise: "Once again I will shake not only the earth but the heavens also." 


Hbr 12:27 This means that all of creation will be shaken and removed, so that only unshakable things will remain. 


Hbr 12:28 Since we are receiving a Kingdom that is unshakable, let us be thankful and please God by worshiping him with holy fear and awe. 

Hbr 12:29 For our God is a devouring fire. 


   We are building our trust and faith in the Rock solid truth of Jesus Christ   unshakable and removing doubts !!     :dsunny:

[rosered]

   I wanted to clarify something about the dead   Ed   , many think its to do with the literal death of humans   but I am not so certain  about that any more


   to me the dead are   here and now  dead in their sins so to speak
 
  and this is why the dead do not rise again till the Lord comes

here is this scripture that shed a new Light on that  verse in Rev  20 Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.


This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection:


on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

NLT for clarity

Imitate God, therefore, in everything you do, because you are his dear children. 


Eph 5:2 Live a life filled with love, following the example of Christ. He loved us [fn] and offered himself as a sacrifice for us, a pleasing aroma to God. 


Eph 5:3 Let there be no sexual immorality, impurity, or greed among you. Such sins have no place among God's people. 


Eph 5:4 Obscene stories, foolish talk, and coarse jokes—these are not for you. Instead, let there be thankfulness to God. 


Eph 5:5 You can be sure that no immoral, impure, or greedy person will inherit the Kingdom of Christ and of God. For a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world. 


Eph 5:6 Don't be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins, for the anger of God will fall on all who disobey him. 


Eph 5:7 Don't participate in the things these people do. 


Eph 5:8 For once you were full of darkness, but now you have light from the Lord. So live as people of light! 

Eph 5:9 For this light within you produces only what is good and right and true. 


Eph 5:10 Carefully determine what pleases the Lord. 


Eph 5:11 Take no part in the worthless deeds of evil and darkness; instead, expose them. 


Eph 5:12 It is shameful even to talk about the things that ungodly people do in secret. 


Eph 5:13 But their evil intentions will be exposed when the light shines on them, 



Eph 5:14 for the light makes everything visible. This is why it is said,
"Awake, O sleeper,
rise up from the dead,
and Christ will give you light." 

Eph 5:15 So be careful how you live. Don't live like fools, but like those who are wise. 


Eph 5:16 Make the most of every opportunity in these evil days. 


Eph 5:17 Don't act thoughtlessly, but understand what the Lord wants you to do


when Jesus said let the dead bury the dead  , but YOU follow Me
 
we can see its the literal  dead and the spiritual dead   that Jesus was talking about


  so both apply to me in the   first ressurrection   ''rise from the dead  so Christ will give you LIGHT /knowledge of Gods will '' and the second death  that follows   and    a power to  be causing  hurt   /harm

[eaglesway]

We are not appointed to wrath, as believers, and discipline is not wrath. If you do a study on the actual word wrath (orge, Grk, if my memory serves) it means literally, outbreak.

I see it as an outbreak of light that dispels darkness, which is the cloak of adversaries, and their strength. I do not discount, either, that God expresses anger- anyone who reads the scriptures with a moderately open mind will see that He does. We are a lot like Him :o)(created in His image). We are instructed nNot to let anger lead us into sin and not to let the sun go down on our wrath....

Yet multitudes believe God's wrath will endure forever.

Yet the word of God says that mercy will triumph over judgment and death will be swallowed by immortality and that after every adversary is subject to the Lord Jesus(1 Cor 15), reconciled to the Father by His blood(Colossians 1) and gathered into one in Christ(Eph 1) that the whole creation will be set free into the glorious liberty of the children of God(Ro 8) and God will be ALL IN ALL(Rom 11:32-36 and 1 Corinthians 15:23-28).

Good News of God's good will towards men.

Yet, the potter will crush the clay on the wheel if it is not taking the shape He intends for it and I see the whole world that way. Every age ends in a crushing and the next begins with shaping in the hands of the one who holds the whole world in His hands.

It is Finished! The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our God and His Messiah! Happy days to come, for all the world, and tho for a moment wrath may be seen by many.....

When you see these things come to pass go up on your roof, do not go down into your house for your things, REJOICE, for your redemption is drawing near.

Up On A Rooooof, Up On A Roof :o)

[ed]

rosered that is the most beautiful heresy I have ever heard!

I was primed to hear it, and apparently you were appointed, and kicked into action!

It is a wonderful thing to be humbled right on time. 

Nice to know God is still into that for me.

Something totally new rarely comes along.

Glad I'm still teachable.

Really cool.  Can't say enough.   

and from eaglesway:  Up On A Rooooof, Up On A Roof!!!!!