Spiritualism without Faith

[JulieTang84]

Can one be Spiritually "alive" without Faith?
   
Jam 2:17-26
In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.

You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is uselessfn?

Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend.

You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?

As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

What is being stated here is that one can quite certainly do many acts of love, kindness in fact baring ALL the fruit of the Spirit and have NO FAITH. Whereas, one CANNOT have FAITH and DO NOTHING.

This sounds logical in and of itself, but does raise the question: Can someone be Spiritually "alive" producing spiritual fruits (works) but have no "professed" Faith? One might quickly answer "NO!!!," but is this correct?

Well certainly John makes it clear that every single person ever born has been enlightened by a measure of Spirit (Christ) Jhn 1:9  That [Jesus] was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

So the point could be made that "any" goodness must be the result of the "light" that is combating the "darkness" of then each person was born with. How else can one explain the many: kind, loving and caring peoples throughout the world. Surely such people as doctors and service men and women all do so because of need to fulfill some "need." Such people might even instruct their children in what is right and wrong. Many might even be active in their communities and even go to church; professing their faith in Jesus.

Yet, we know Jesus will say to some:  'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Evildoers? Seems a little harsh. Jesus often spoke in extremes: saying once - "If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple"

Which is on face value a TOTAL CONTRADICTION of what He said here: "honor your father and mother,' and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'" (Mat 19:19) Clearly "Hate" means "Love Less" which is in alinement with Jesus's 1st and 2nd Commandments.

So what did Jesus mean when he called those who bore Spiritual Fruit: Evil Doers!

Well this is where the study becomes interesting?

Jesus gave great importance in the belief of WHO He is. Saying: "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." John 3:18

Condemned for doing good; for caring, loving and protecting? Yes, but it is not the "What" they did, but the "Why."

Jesus asks: "Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me?" and responds with: "Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God." John 8:46, 47

"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out." (John 6:37)

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. (John 6:44)

"... no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father." ( John 6:65)

When read in context the phrase "come to me" is spoken in the same breath as the word "faith". It is a synonym. Likewise the phrase "draws him" is used in parallel with the phrase "gives me" or "granted him". Jesus declares that "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. (John 6:44) and "All that the Father gives me [draws to Me] will come to me." (John 6:37). In other words, the passage simply states that no one will trust in or have faith in Jesus unless Father grants it (John 6:65), and ALL to whom Father grants (or gives/draws to Jesus) will believe. Not some of them, but all of them. This means that we must conclude that all that Father draws to Jesus infallibly come to faith in him.

Faith, Jesus is saying, is not a product of our human natures (no matter how much love and help is given;) It is, rather, the product of new life that only Father can give us through the quickening work of the Holy Spirit. It is the Spirit alone who unites us to Christ, bringing "new" life to our suspended  souls so that we may believe.

Jesus affirms this same truth to Nicodemus, saying: "You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.'' (john 3:7)  Telling him:  "Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit." (John 3:5) Many fail to realize that Jesus is not "commanding" Nicodemus to be "born again," but rather what must happen. Faith is MORE than a belief, it is rather Spirit given Knowledge. A knowledge that is far superior than any "learned" knowledge as verified by Jesus himself: 'When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, "Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith." Mat 8:10

So, can one be Spiritually "alive" without Faith? No!! Because TRUE FAITH can only exist in a reborn New (SPIRITUAL) Life, something that is gifted from Father. Paul says: "For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you." Rom 12:3

There is much to conclude from this study:

1. Faith is ever so much more than saying: "I love you Jesus"
2. Faith cannot be measured by works: While Faith produces Works, Works DO NOT produce Faith
3. Brothers, sisters, family members are not responsible for the Faith they have or have not.
4. Evildoers, does not necessarily mean "Evil Acts" rather one not gifted with Faith
5. Not a SINGLE PERSON is RESPONSIBLE for the FAITH given them
6.  Spirit is in a "suspended" state until called to Action by Father.
7.  Hope without Faith is no more than a pipe-dream.
8.  Love without Faith is little more than a shadow of the Love of a Spirit filled Heart.

I have know idea where all this came from  :Chinscratch: I just started typing and the words just flowed. I hope who ever reads this get's as much out of as I did writing it.

Much Love, Julie  :HeartThrob:

[jabcat]

I agree with much of what you say, but there are a few things IMO, that bear more digging.  Good things to look into, for sure.    Such as the light in every man..there's nothing (of matter, including every human) in the world that doesn't have some remnant of God in it, because He created all that there is through His Son.   

These scrips might help;

Hebrews 11:6  And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

Eph. 2:8  For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works...  and I Jn 1:12  .. to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God-- 

[jabcat]

p.s.   I believe God can use or work through anything or anybody He chooses.  However, on the whole, I don't believe that necessarily spells redemption, justification, or having been given the faith to believe on Jesus, which the scriptures say must occur through faith, all the gift of God - according to His timing and choosing.

For instance;  I personally don't understand spirituality in and of itself to be a stand-alone proposition.  John says there are all types of spirits, many types at work in the world.  Many are antiChrist (denying Christ).  It's a difficult task, but we're also told by John to not believe every spirit and to test the spirits to see if they are of God.     

[JulieTang84]

p.s.   I believe God can use or work through anything or anybody He chooses.  However, on the whole, I don't believe that necessarily spells redemption, justification, or having been given the faith to believe on Jesus, which the scriptures say must occur through faith, all the gift of God - according to His timing and choosing.

For instance;  I personally don't understand spirituality in and of itself to be a stand-alone proposition.  John says there are all types of spirits, many types at work in the world.  Many are antiChrist (denying Christ).  It's a difficult task, but we're also told by John to not believe every spirit and to test the spirits to see if they are of God.     

Thanks James. Let me clarify Spirit. To me there is only one Holy Spirit and that is of Father of which is LIGHT. Concerning the union of God and man, and the knowledge of God that this brings, Jesus said, "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you" (John 16:13-15). This knowledge of Father and sets apart his children The rest of the world is in darkness and cannot comprehend Father in any way.

Paul talks of this knowledge of the things of God that come from the union of ones reborn self with the Spirit of God: "But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit: "For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God" (1 Cor. 2:10-12).

Before I answer regarding "Testing" the spirits, I will ask you James, how do you test them?

But as promised, I will answer. First, reread the above paragraph beginning with: "Paul talks of this knowledge...." and pay particular attention to: "Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God"

Can any spirit not of LIGHT bring a TRUTH that is laced with such a profound Peace and an unquestionable Assurance? A Truth that is not an UNDERSTANDING and certainly not a BELIEF, but a KNOWLEDGE that is SO PROFOUND that it cannot be explained.

You may not agree with what I am about to say, but the "profound peace" and "unquestionable Assurance" is to me the greatest Testimony that the knowledge has come from the Spirit of Father. My reasoning is quite sound.

Let us consider that the Spirit of Darkness can grant such Inner Peace and Assurance (which I KNOW is not true), then KISS the reborn New Life away, because it clearly cannot be trusted and Paul was WRONG when he said the following: "Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God" because the given knowledge is NO DIFFERENT than Satan would give.

Father, please forgive me for even suggesting such a thing.

You see darkness cannot emit Light and Fathers Truth will never be found in darkness. The Peace and Assurance are known because of ABSOLUTE Light and Truth. Such Knowledge becomes as part as one as ones, eyes, skin and shape. One could no easier discard it than they could discard a leg. I say all of this without the mention of Scripture for a VERY good reason.

There is a HUGE problem with Scripture and it is to do with just one thing: Understanding. Knowledge fromSpirit is not based on understanding. Spirit is not Understanding and neither Understanding, Spirit. Therefore, Scripture can be read and Verification (as if it is needed) is instantly ratified, even to the point of "seeing" something totally different than previously understood. I am sure you have had such moments. The Holy Spirit works silently to those without ears to hear. As if I hear everything, but this is what I have found. The brighter the Spirit shines in me, the Darker the darkness; making an untruth standout. I believe this is what is meant when Satan grows desperate because he knows he is running out of time.

This is why Peace and Assurance, which I have not said are just aspects of PURE LOVE bare the greatest testimony to Spiritual Truth, so that we can KNOW what is given is True.

Thank you Father.....

Love Julie   :HeartThrob:

[jabcat]

I think, and started to add it to my post, that testing the spirits would probably be a really good study and thread - and we'd probably get about 50 different answers :).  I personally pray about things, try to sense the Spirit of Christ, and check things with the scriptures.   And sometimes I miss it - thinking I've really heard from the Lord, when among possible other things, it was my own imagination.

Here's something to weigh;  "No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light". 2 Cor. 11:14

Some of the first things satan said to man was, "did God really say..  surely [paraphrase] that's not true..."   

[jabcat]

Julie, can I ask a few questions before the thread goes a lot further?  Are you searching for an answer on this topic, or are you already pretty confident in your stance and basically making the case that people absolutely can be in fellowship with God, already His children, no matter what religion they're in - or no matter whether they believe in God or Jesus and have trusted Him as Savior?  That if they have "love", that proves they are filled with God and "on the right path"?

I believe I'm personally influenced by many things.  Some of it helpful, some of it not so much. :(    Do you think it possible that any of what you believe is influenced by writers, speakers, and various non-Christ-based religious/philosophical leaders (Ghandi, Buddha, etc., and their various disciples) that could affect conclusions you draw about scriptural and spiritual issues?  Is there anything here to consider?  Thanks.   

[micah7:9]

"Julie, can I ask a few questions before the thread goes a lot further?  Are you searching for an answer on this topic, or are you already pretty confident in your stance...."
The answer is...."you already pretty confident in your stance...."  :2c:

[ed]

So what did Jesus mean when he called those who bore Spiritual Fruit: Evil Doers!

It is my opinion that Jesus is talking to the sectarians who do not have Christ as Lord.  Their doctrines are their lord. 

Lots or ways to be caught up in doctrine rather then the simplicity of the gospel.

Heresy=sectarian=party spirit.

I find the main culprit in the deviding of the church into sects, is "The Bible is the only rule for faith and practice".

All the sects seem to use the Bible as their proof for their sectarianism.

.

[micah7:9]

Just what is "Spiritualism"? I find spirit and spiritual in the Bible but I have failed to find "spiritualism" could this be another theological man definition created rabbit trail concocted by man to offer more confusion by men who have the tendency to create their own deepness to explain the simplicity of Jesus the Savoir of the world? I, myself would reason so. :Peace2: Yeah it's an opinion. :dsunny:

[jabcat]

I find the main culprit in the deviding of the church into sects, is "The Bible is the only rule for faith and practice".

All the sects seem to use the Bible as their proof for their sectarianism.
.

ed, would you consider the possibility that the real problem isn't strongly believing and adhering to the scriptures (translated as accurately as possible, interpreted/revealed by the Holy Spirit),   but rather, ignorance (blindness, lack of understanding, poor translation) perhaps more importantly coupled with a haughty, self-righteous, unloving (even hate full) attitude?

on the other end of the spectrum -  do you believe there could be a problem (extremely slippery slope) with someone believing whatever came along, whatever felt best, whatever might be imagined by the mind of man, without any solid, sound, GODLY point of reference?  So inundated with philosophies of man, that the truth actually becomes elusive and there's instead a mish-mash of irreconcilable delusion?      ("Your word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path".)

Although a respect for and considered reliability of the scriptures (accurately translated, rightly divided, Spirit-revealed) is a default setting at TM and not a matter of ongoing discussion/debate, I did also want to quickly mention this as connected to your post;   I believe it's possible that many folks/groups may indeed leave out the leading of the Spirit of God, and by far mostly only rely on WHAT THEY UNDERSTAND of what is written.  If so, hardness can enter in (or in extremes, was likely there to begin with, thus the absence or rejecting of the Holy Spirit).  On the other hand (scenario 2 above), if no true point of reference, the mind of man can imagine and be harmfully influenced by all sorts of things ("there's a way that seems right to a man, but the end thereof is destruction").  So I just find and believe the true Spirit of God and His written Word will never contradict.

[JulieTang84]

Julie, can I ask a few questions before the thread goes a lot further?  Are you searching for an answer on this topic, or are you already pretty confident in your stance and basically making the case that people absolutely can be in fellowship with God, already His children, no matter what religion they're in - or no matter whether they believe in God or Jesus and have trusted Him as Savior?  That if they have "love", that proves they are filled with God and "on the right path"?
   
I believe I'm personally influenced by many things.  Some of it helpful, some of it not so much. :(    Do you think it possible that any of what you believe is influenced by writers, speakers, and various non-Christ-based religious/philosophical leaders (Ghandi, Buddha, etc., and their various disciples) that could affect conclusions you draw about scriptural and spiritual issues?  Is there anything here to consider?  Thanks.

At one time I would have said yes everyone can have a relationship with Christ regardless, BUT NO LONGER. Father showed me with this lesson that ONLY those called to Christ by Father, can have a relationship with him. This does not restrict one from knowing right from wrong and gives credence to the words of Jesus of those whom little was given, little shall be expected. I am sure Father will be well pleased with those who have done very well worth so little.


Bottom line, no one comes to Christ or has Faith until Father draws them to Jesus.


Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

[ed]

ed, would you consider the possibility that the real problem isn't strongly believing and adhering to the scriptures (translated as accurately as possible, interpreted/revealed by the Holy Spirit),   but rather, ignorance (blindness, lack of understanding, poor translation) perhaps more importantly coupled with a haughty, self-righteous, unloving (even hate full) attitude?

Yes, I would say that the masses are ignorant of what the pulpit is shoveling.  I find that even in the the midst of the divided church, Christ still works within every sect.  Let the wheat grow with the tares.

on the other end of the spectrum -  do you believe there could be a problem (extremely slippery slope) with someone believing whatever came along, whatever felt best, whatever might be imagined by the mind of man, without any solid, sound, GODLY point of reference?  So inundated with philosophies of man, that the truth actually becomes elusive and there's instead a mish-mash of irreconcilable delusion?      ("Your word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path".)

What must every thought line with?
1 Cor 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

Even the apostles were divided.

1 Cor 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Saved by fire seems to line up with the separating or sheep and goats.

Although a respect for and considered reliability of the scriptures (accurately translated, rightly divided, Spirit-revealed) is a default setting at TM and not a matter of ongoing discussion/debate, I did also want to quickly mention this as connected to your post;   I believe it's possible that many folks/groups may indeed leave out the leading of the Spirit of God, and by far mostly only rely on WHAT THEY UNDERSTAND of what is written.  If so, hardness can enter in (or in extremes, was likely there to begin with, thus the absence or rejecting of the Holy Spirit).  On the other hand (scenario 2 above), if no true point of reference, the mind of man can imagine and be harmfully influenced by all sorts of things ("there's a way that seems right to a man, but the end thereof is destruction").  So I just find and believe the true Spirit of God and His written Word will never contradict.

I guess we must see through glass darkly until we are know even as we are known.  No way around it.  A person can do themselves harm by not paying attention to their exact calling.  There is growth in controversy.  It may not seem pleasant at the time, but the end is godliness.  Still learning to swim here.
Ed

[ed]

Bottom line, no one comes to Christ or has Faith until Father draws them to Jesus.

Faith and faith in Christ are two different things.

Faith works for saint and sinner alike.  I've heard it called a few different things.  The law of believing, the law of attraction..............are a few.

Now if you are talking about having a faith relationship with Christ, I think I would tend to agree.

.

.

[JulieTang84]

Bottom line, no one comes to Christ or has Faith until Father draws them to Jesus.

Faith and faith in Christ are two different things.

Faith works for saint and sinner alike.  I've heard it called a few different things.  The law of believing, the law of attraction..............are a few.

Now if you are talking about having a faith relationship with Christ, I think I would tend to agree.

.

.

My bad  :doh:   Should have been TRUE SPIRITUAL FAITH in Christ.


Thanks for catching thst.


Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

[ed]

Has God limited "himself" to having a relationship with mankind to the preached word?  "Faith come by hearing, and hearing by the word of God"?

I must admit that I had a spiritual experience with God before I became a Christian.  I ran to the Bible after the experience, but it would seem that the relationship was started before doctrinal knowledge.  The real relationship was God initiated with my seeking be rewarded with finding.

:Chinscratch:

[JulieTang84]

"Julie, can I ask a few questions before the thread goes a lot further?  Are you searching for an answer on this topic, or are you already pretty confident in your stance...."
The answer is...."you already pretty confident in your stance...."  :2c:

Just using what Father had placed in my heart. My mind has nothing to do with it, as It is not an understanding, but a given. I am merely sharing and am excited to hear what Father has given others to know.

Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

[ed]

Many years ago I had a realization that changed my life.  The realization caused me to dig deeper into my faith and what it stands on.  I was in prayer and meditation, as I walked through my day.  I said "Lord" something something, and immediately I heard in my mind "I am not your Lord, your doctrines are your Lord".

I had been in relationship to Christ for over a decade when this happened.  I took this as reproof and I started looking for the correction.  A decade later, my faith has changed in many ways.  I feel that it is healthy to allow faith to change.  This is not what the sectarian church teaches.

[JulieTang84]

Many years ago I had a realization that changed my life.  The realization caused me to dig deeper into my faith and what it stands on.  I was in prayer and meditation, as I walked through my day.  I said "Lord" something something, and immediately I heard in my mind "I am not your Lord, your doctrines are your Lord".

I had been in relationship to Christ for over a decade when this happened.  I took this as reproof and I started looking for the correction.  A decade later, my faith has changed in many ways.  I feel that it is healthy to allow faith to change.  This is not what the sectarian church teaches.

Ed, please explain: "I am not your Lord, your doctrines are your Lord. I am most interested hearing what you have to say.


Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

[JulieTang84]

James: Here's something to weigh;  "No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light". 2 Cor. 11:14

Absolutely. Satan can and does preach a different message so that many are decieved. But Satan cannot bring peace, and neither can be bring an assurance of unquestionable truth.


Jesus said that those with eyes to see and ears to hear, will indeed hear and see the truth and know it for what it is. He said this referring to the Spirit. I am sure it will not bode well with Father if even is Spirit is dismissed (buried like the talents of silver) because of lack of faith.


No offence meant our implied. Honest. :friendstu:

Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

This sounds logical in and of itself, but does raise the question: Can someone be Spiritually "alive" producing spiritual fruits (works) but have no "professed" Faith? One might quickly answer "NO!!!," but is this correct?

Hi Julie,
To answer the question in the OP, nobody can be spiritually alive without literal belief in the propositions (the statements or assertions) set forth in the Bible about Jesus Christ. In other words, even if a Buddhist is a really loving person, if they do not believe the propositions set forth, then they are not acting in accordance with the Spirit, but are having their OWN righteousness, which is as dirty rags.

Paul admonishes the church this way:

Colossians 3:17
And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

Paul is indeed verifying the necessity to do things in WORD, and in DEED, but is adding that whatever they do should be done in the name of Christ....giving thanks to God through Christ. Paul does this himself:

1 Cor 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them--yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me.

Paul labored. Yes, he knew that faith is much more than saying "I love you Jesus," however he did things in the name of Jesus by giving due credit. So, he says "I labored....yet not I but grace of God that was with me.

Can a Buddhist give thanks to God for his own works? Or does he credit himself? That matters because Paul says that no man may boast. It's not even just that no man SHOULD boast. No man MAY boast. The possibility is out. So if anyone literally credits themselves for their works, it shows they are having their own righteousness, which is dirty rags. Without faith, we cannot please God.

John 20:28-29
28 Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!" 29 Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

You see, Jesus is saying that Thomas believed because Thomas said "my Lord and my God." He literally said those words.

John 14:12-14
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also;

Here is where the rubber means the road. Christ is not now excepting the idea that faith has an intellectual belief component. Rather, he is ADDING works to the faith to make the faith complete. He is verifying that Faith and Works are not the same thing, but that works are to be ADDED to faith to make faith complete. Faith is a matter of loyalty, not just in works, but in believing the words that Christ says about himself.

That's why Jesus says:

Mark 16:15-16
And he said to them, "Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. Whoever believes...and is baptized.....will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

If you are asking if people can be baptized in the Spirit without believing the Gospel, I would say that the Bible is pretty clear that the answer is no. Baptism in the Spirit comes AFTER one believes the Gospel, which is why those who appear to be "spiritually alive (works)" are not actually alive to God because they have not believed in the Son, and therefore follow after false gods.

It's not a matter of belief alone, but baptism too, for we are saved by his LIFE. Without going into too much detail, I believe Jesus is speaking about receiving the Holy Spirit, not baptism in water. So, Christ is saying, that baptism in the spirit FOLLOWS literal belief. They go hand in hand, and the Spirit is what does the saving work.

Mark 1:15
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Here, Jesus is saying, two things: REPENT....and.....believe the Gospel. Have Buddhists repented of worshipping buddha? Do they believe the Gospel? The Gospel says that JESUS IS LORD. They must believe the Gospel if they are to be spiritually alive.

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.

It's not just a matter of believing Christ existed long ago. As many as RECEIVED him, he gave power to become sons of God. Do Buddhists receive Christ, but deny his Lordship? Do they deny Christ's words about himself?

If not, then they have no spiritual life apart from belief in Christ:

Romans 10:9-10
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead....

Here are all the propositions we must believe:

1. Believe that Christ IS (not only that he WAS)
2. Believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead.
3. Believe the Gospel (therefore that Christ is Lord), along with repenting
4. Believe on his name, along with receiving him

The Son of God is not Buddha, nor Muhammad, nor Great Spirit, or Krishna. God has one Son, who is Jesus the Messiah, the name above all names, and anyone who pleases God must believe that Jesus Christ IS (present tense).

[sheila]

regarding...I never knew you..away from me ye evildoers.

   Matthew 10;33 and Luke 12;9....denying the name of Jesus Christ before men......


    Rev. 2;13 and 3;8      Mark 13;6  many will come in my name claiming,'I AM he" and deceive many.

   false christ's.messiah's

    Mt 24;24

[JulieTang84]

Seth:Hi Julie,
To answer the question in the OP, nobody can be spiritually alive without literal belief in the propositions (the statements or assertions) set forth in the Bible about Jesus Christ. In other words, even if a Buddhist is a really loving person, if they do not believe the propositions set forth, then they are not acting in accordance with the Spirit, but are having their OWN righteousness, which is as dirty rags.

I am afraid I do not understand your use of the term "literal." Do you mean standing in front of an alter and processing ones faith in Jesus. If so, then I am very sorry to say that you are mistaken. Simple Words mean nothing unless they come from a spirit filled heart by the will of Father. Satan uses wordd and blind and deaf (spiritual) people eat them up like their lives depend on them.


You must realize, that one cannot choose NOT TO HAVE FAITH in Jesus., when Father draws one to Him. It is a done deal. Those who reject Jesus, no matter how strongly do so because they simply do not have the faith gifted to turn the other way. The also can be said for the kind and loving Hindu, etc.


Love Julie  :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

I am afraid I do not understand your use of the term "literal." Do you mean standing in front of an alter and processing ones faith in Jesus. If so, then I am very sorry to say that you are mistaken. Simple Words mean nothing unless they come from a spirit filed heart by the will of Father. Satan uses word and blind and deaf (spiritual) east them up like their lives depend on them.

I am talking about literal belief as opposed to the idea that belief can be expressed through good works without actual belief in the propositions I outlined through scripture. Thank you for asking me to clarify. People must actually believe the Gospel, and must actually believe that Jesus Christ IS, and that he was raised from the dead.

They cannot believe otherwise and have spiritual life.

You must realize, that one cannot choose NOT TO HAVE FAITH in Jesus., when Father draws one to Him. It is a done deal. Those who reject Jesus, no matter how strongly do so because they simply do not have the faith gifted to turn the other way. The sms can be said for the mind and loving Hindu, etc.

No disagreement, but Romans 9 shows that even though God is in control, he can still judge them as he did Pharaoh. Pharaoh did not resist God's will, but got punished anyway. He is the Potter, we are the clay. In fact, all Egypt was plagued because God hardened one man's heart and then judged them all for it.

All those who God has drawn to Christ will reveal their state of being drawn by believing that Christ is, and that he was raised from the dead, and will believe the Gospel that Paul brought.

[JulieTang84]

Do you believe that NO ONE can TRULY believe until Gifted with the Spirit to do so? With out Fathers intervention the words are empty literally of Spirit.


Love Julie :HeartThrob:

[Seth]

Do you believe that NO ONE can TRULY believe until Gifted with the Spirit to do so? With our Fathers intervention the words are empty literally of Spirit.


Love Julie :HeartThrob:

What I believe is that God GIVES the faith (to believe the Gospel and that Christ is and was raised from the dead) > then he gives the Spirit > then by the Spirit people confess, and works follow.