list of Early Greek Fathers who believed in eternal torment...

[God Chaser]

i have read the major papers here on tentmaker including the 500 years history of universal salvation. I understand that Greek fathers believed in U.S and annihalism, but who are those who believed aionios meant eternal and in thus advocated eternal torment?

[eaglesway]

As I see it, it came out of the Roman contingient, who had imported "Inferno" (the Roman abode of the dead). Sometime during the 5th and 6th centuries as the Roman "church" achieved predominance and was becoming a political force(through Constantine), or, as I would call it, a harlot. The concept of eternal torment began to be promoted, not by(IMO) any church fathers because such men were not "fathers" but were rather the ambitious proponents of the Romanized gospel and the harlot religion. It wasnt really based on translation(imo) of aionios, it was based on formulating a religion that closely emulated Greco-Roman mysticism combined with a teaching that put fear in the hearts of men and placed them in subjection to men rather than God.

aionios, coming from olam, obviously never meant, "eternal" until the harlot church decided it did- not by any act of scholarship, but by the dictum through which they corrupted most of the foundational teachings of Jesus and the apostles.

[WhiteWings]

That's not an easy question because as you have read in that "500 year" book many opponents were reasoning from their pagan backgrounds or often simply were pagans discussing a new relgion. Considering 5 outr of 6 schools did not teach ET and the councils were preceeded by 2 outspoken UR teachers it cab be argued the list of anti-UR teachers was short.

[Seth]

It's always good to remember that the NT writers were using Greek words to translate Aramaic concepts. That's why you can't always rely on Greek Fathers for Biblical truths who don't understand that.

[eaglesway]

It's always good to remember that the NT writers were using Greek words to translate Aramaic concepts. That's why you can't always rely on Greek Fathers for Biblical truths who don't understand that.

h
ABSOLUTELY! I am still completely bumfuzzled why anyone cares what Aristotle or Plato thought the word "aion" meant! The gospel is based on the words of tje prophets, the Messiah and the apostles, who all- whether they spoke Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek-certainly spoke out of the Hebrew mind-set and cosmology concerning the word "olam", from which "aion" was translated. Since "aion" is a translation from the original word "olam" and we have tons of contextual uses IN THE VERY WORD OF GOD from which to define "olam", "aion" becomes its degenerative offspring. I wish that "olam" were the core argument that UR scholars resorted to, because (imo of course) it carries far more authority.

To me, the whole idea that we need to understand what aion meant to the Greeks a couple hundred years after Christ is a concession to the "great falling away" that I am loathe to make (please, nobody shoot me :o)

[micah7:9]

The word "eternity" is used once in the Bible and the word "eternal" was unknown to early believers. EW said it true. Eternal anything is man made, and backed up with man's dictionary.

[WhiteWings]

http://tentmaker.org/forum/discussions-on-universal-salvation/the-latin-vulgata/msg40005/#msg40005

[micah7:9]

 :dsunny: