Sons of Jacob

[WhiteWings]

I'm not sure what you mean by what's the pattern.

What's the significatnce Jesus descended from the 4th tribe and not of, say, the 8th.
That sort of things.

[lomarah]

Don't have a sweet clue. :)

[lomarah]

(I'm sure there is significance to it, everything is significant. Just don't know what it is yet. Maybe Card would know. Likely she would.)

[redhotmagma]

4 signifies creation, like the 4 corners of the earth, 4 elements, 4 faces of the cherubim (IMO the cherubim signify all of the physical world), He was born the 4th tribe as the son of man

The sun(son), moon(bride) and stars(sons) were created on the 4th day

the son was born in the 4000th year (give or take)

There were 3 temples before the true temple was born (tabernacle, Solomons, zerubabel)

[lomarah]

Wow, very cool!!

[jabcat]

I'm not sure what you mean by what's the pattern. But when I say the "church" I basically mean those who have the initial "I believe in Jesus, thank You for dying for me" experience but then do nothing else, don't press in, don't bother with sanctification or perfection. So I'm not talking about specific denominations or anything like that, just those who are already believers but are not pressing in to attain perfection. Jesus isn't a tribe. He descends from the tribe of Judah but that doesn't make Him the tribe of Judah. He is the Lion from the tribe of Judah.

I like your post lo.  Not to derail the thread, but I have quick question of clarification.  Sometimes I like to know what folks mean by certain words or phrases we all use.

By 'perfection' (which is a KJV translation) do you mean maturity/being in His will?  I certainly do believe in obedience, yielding to Him, and maturity, but I for one do not believe anyone will obtain absolute 100% perfection (as in no mistakes, no warts, no fleshly carnal thoughts etc.) in this age.  I believe it as described in I Cor. 15:52.  Thanks :)

[lomarah]

Hey jabbers! I do in fact mean perfection! Think growing up into the full stature of Christ/dying so that HE can live in you/being an overcomer. Many will tell you it's not attainable in this life, but there are a select few who have the signs and wonders to back it up who will tell you that it IS attainable. I believe them! He died and rose so that we could have ABUNDANT life, be SET FREE from sin and death! This is what I am going for! By the grace of God I am seeking to die so that He can live in me!  :cloud9:

[lomarah]

And actually, more importantly than the signs and wonders, they have the LOVE of Christ resonating through them. That is how you can know they are the real deal!

[jabcat]

Hey jabbers! I do in fact mean perfection! Think growing up into the full stature of Christ/dying so that HE can live in you/being an overcomer. Many will tell you it's not attainable in this life, but there are a select few who have the signs and wonders to back it up who will tell you that it IS attainable. I believe them! He died and rose so that we could have ABUNDANT life, be SET FREE from sin and death! This is what I am going for! By the grace of God I am seeking to die so that He can live in me!  :cloud9:

OK, thanks for clarifying.  The word teleioi means mature, complete - righteousness, "right standing", as in, His sacrifice and righteousness become ours.  I also believe the context of Jesus' teaching ("be ye perfect" [complete]" was about building works on the foundation of love for one another.

I know there are a few who believe what you state above, and I wanted folks to be clear about what was being said.  I don't want to derail here and get into a big discussion about it in this thread.  Everyone can make up their own mind before the Lord about it.  Thanks.   :gthumbsup:

[reFORMer]

Hey jabbers! I do in fact mean perfection! Think growing up into the full stature of Christ/dying so that HE can live in you/being an overcomer. Many will tell you it's not attainable in this life, but there are a select few who have the signs and wonders to back it up who will tell you that it IS attainable. I believe them! He died and rose so that we could have ABUNDANT life, be SET FREE from sin and death! This is what I am going for! By the grace of God I am seeking to die so that He can live in me!  :cloud9:

OK, thanks for clarifying.  The word teleioi means mature, complete - righteousness, "right standing", as in, His sacrifice and righteousness become ours.  I also believe the context of Jesus' teaching ("be ye perfect" [complete]" was about building works on the foundation of love for one another.

I know there are a few who believe what you state above, and I wanted folks to be clear about what was being said.  I don't want to derail here and get into a big discussion about it in this thread.  Everyone can make up their own mind before the Lord about it.  Thanks.   :gthumbsup:

Also, telos means "end."  Being made perfect also speaks of The Finishing Work.

Philippians 3¹⁵ speaks of, "...as many as be perfect," referring to forgetting the things that are past.

Colossians 3¹⁴ says, "Love...is the bond of perfectness."

[WhiteWings]

Judah is the fourh tribe. Jesus descended from that tribe.
http://tentmaker.org/forum/word-studies/the-fourth-word/msg138309/#msg138309

[redhotmagma]

Judah is the fourh tribe. Jesus descended from that tribe.
http://tentmaker.org/forum/word-studies/the-fourth-word/msg138309/#msg138309

Yes

[WhiteWings]

(Gen 33:1) And Jacob lifted up his eyes, and looked, and, behold, Esau was coming, and four hundred men with him. And he divided the children to Leah, and to Rachel, and to the two handmaids.

10 Tribes of Leah.
2 Tribes of Rachel. -> Split into 3 tribes.

(Gen 32:22) And he rose up that night, and took his two wives, and his two handmaids, and his eleven children, and passed over the ford of the Jabbok.
They cross the Jordan.

[WhiteWings]

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c2/12_Tribes_of_Israel_Map.svg/500px-12_Tribes_of_Israel_Map.svg.png)



What's the significance of three tribes being on the 'wrong side' of the Jordan?

[sheila]

jOSHUA 22

   V 10  WHEN THEY CAME TO gELILOTH NEAR THE JORDAN IN THE LAND OF CANAAN, THE REUBENITES THE GADITES AND THE HALF TRIBE OF

MANASSEH BUILT AN IMPOSING ALTAR THERE BY THE JORDAN.

  AND WHEN THE ISREALITES HEARD THEY HAD BUILT THE ALTAR ON THE BORDER OF CANAAN..NEAR THE JORDAN ON THE ISREALITE SIDE

  THE WHOLE ASSEMBLY GATHERED AT SHILOH TO GO TO WAR AGAINST THEM....

     V21THE MIGHTY ONE,GOD THE LORD THE MIGHTY ONE GOD THE LORD. HE KNOWS!

   AND LET ISREAL KNOW  IF THIS HAS BEEN IN REBELLION OR DISOBEDIANCE TO THE LORD DO NOT SPARE US THIS DAY.....

  NO WE DID THIS IN FEAR THAT SOME DAY YOUR DESCENDANTS MIGHT SAY TO OURS  WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO DO WITH

  THE LORD GOD OF ISREAL. THE LORD HAS MADE THE JORDAN A BOUNDARY BETWEEN US AND YOU- YOU REUBENITES AND GADITES!

  YOU HAVE NO SHARE IN THE LORD. SO YOUR DESCENDANTS MIGHT CAUSE OURS   TO STOP FEARING THE LORD

  THAT IS WHY WE SAID LET US GET READY AND BUILD AN ALTAR- BUT NOT FOR BURNT OFFERING OR SACRIFICES

  ON THE CONTRARY IT IS TO BE A WITTNESS BETWEEN US AND YOU

[shawn]

Hey jabbers! I do in fact mean perfection! Think growing up into the full stature of Christ/dying so that HE can live in you/being an overcomer. Many will tell you it's not attainable in this life, but there are a select few who have the signs and wonders to back it up who will tell you that it IS attainable. I believe them! He died and rose so that we could have ABUNDANT life, be SET FREE from sin and death! This is what I am going for! By the grace of God I am seeking to die so that He can live in me!  :cloud9:

OK, thanks for clarifying.  The word teleioi means mature, complete - righteousness, "right standing", as in, His sacrifice and righteousness become ours.  I also believe the context of Jesus' teaching ("be ye perfect" [complete]" was about building works on the foundation of love for one another.

I know there are a few who believe what you state above, and I wanted folks to be clear about what was being said.  I don't want to derail here and get into a big discussion about it in this thread.  Everyone can make up their own mind before the Lord about it.  Thanks.   :gthumbsup:

This is just my 2 cents on the matter...but if Paul struggled and wrestled with the flesh...I think all of us outside of Jesus Christ himself will wrestle with this flesh.

[Lazarus Short]

What's the significance of three tribes being on the 'wrong side' of the Jordan?

If we see crossing over the Jordan as crossing over from this life into the perfection of the Kingdom of Heaven, including glorification, then holding back from crossing, claiming that "hey, life is pretty good on this side," should be a symbol of people or peoples who are content with a New Earth sort of existence, rather than the full New Heavens and New Earth existence.  Not everyone belongs to the Barley or Wheat companies, some belong to the grape vintage, and like it that way.  There is room for all in God's Kingdom, and a purpose for them as well.

[jabcat]

Hey jabbers! I do in fact mean perfection! Think growing up into the full stature of Christ/dying so that HE can live in you/being an overcomer. Many will tell you it's not attainable in this life, but there are a select few who have the signs and wonders to back it up who will tell you that it IS attainable. I believe them! He died and rose so that we could have ABUNDANT life, be SET FREE from sin and death! This is what I am going for! By the grace of God I am seeking to die so that He can live in me!  :cloud9:

OK, thanks for clarifying.  The word teleioi means mature, complete - righteousness, "right standing", as in, His sacrifice and righteousness become ours.  I also believe the context of Jesus' teaching ("be ye perfect" [complete]" was about building works on the foundation of love for one another.

I know there are a few who believe what you state above, and I wanted folks to be clear about what was being said.  I don't want to derail here and get into a big discussion about it in this thread.  Everyone can make up their own mind before the Lord about it.  Thanks.   :gthumbsup:

This is just my 2 cents on the matter...but if Paul struggled and wrestled with the flesh...I think all of us outside of Jesus Christ himself will wrestle with this flesh.

It's amazing how many times that just in my normal reading to begin the day, I read something that is closely connected to a salient topic on TM.  I went to bed last night with it on my mind how I needed to turn things over to the Lord, surrender things to Him.  (which is true, but I still need to realize it's not my strength or goodness but HIS - and that it's His grace and blood applied to my life through the gift of faith in Him that puts me in right standing with Him.  Amen!)  Anyway, this morning I read this, and it sure caught my attention;

"..so therefore, on the one hand, I myself am slaving for God's law with my mind;  yet, on the other hand, I am slaving for wrongdoing's law with my flesh.    Therefore, there is now no condenmation for those who are in union with the Anointed One Yesu."

[jabcat]

Sorry, I realized I'm continuing a hijacking I started a while back.  My bad. 

:hijacked:   :punish:

Back to Jacob and 'da boys... :)

[reFORMer]

In Revelation 7 (KJV) it is spelled "Juda."  Concordant Literal spells Rv 7 "Judah."  Anyway, it is listed first at that location.  And the meaning of "Leah," the mother of the Jacobs 1st four children, is:  (?) actually, the meanings of the four mothers' names are?

I see you have it in the first post.  I remember when studying the point of the mothers I found Bilhah meant "bearing hire."-- It matters that Joseph (Increaser) as "Christ the head" and Benjamin (Son of the Right Hand) as "the sons of God in the latter days," "the 'Foot' Company" --these are not born of hire; in fact, not of the two servants, Bilhah and Zilpah. Nor of the first wife for whom Jacob worked so hard for seven years.  Before he worked, Rachael, his dearly beloved was given to him.  She was the bearer of Joseph and Benjamin.

[WhiteWings]

Is that a statement or a question Ref?
The meaning of the names is in the lower half of the OP.

[eaglesway]

That's a really good question and I also wonder if there is significance to Rachel having 2 sons?

Joseph = God will increase
Benjamin = Son of my right hand

Joseph is the firstborn son of the beloved wife=Jesus.
Benjamin gets the golden cup of Joseph, son of the right hand=us.

Beautiful.

[WhiteWings]

Judah = praise God
Reuben = behold a Son
Gad = good fortune
Asher = happiness
Naphtali = my struggle
Manasseh = God has caused me to forget
Simeon = hearing
Levi = grafting in
Issachar = God has reinstated me
Zebulun = elevated position
Joseph = increased
Benjamin = son of the right hand

When we put them together in the order that they are presented, we have a clear message that will apply directly to Israel during the upcoming time of Jacob's trouble;

"Praise God! Behold a son of good fortune and happiness.  My struggle God has caused me to forget.  Hearing of our grafting in, God has reinstated me to an elevated position, increased by the Son of the right hand."

[sheila]

Like!  and we can see Paul[a Benjamite],announcing all Israel being saved..having been but

  blinded for a time,til all the Gentiles come in  per the Holy Spirit testimony..

[sheila]

and if you can accept it, Jesus Christ as the greater Joseph[sold into slavery/death by brothers

through jealousy]..went ahead..to prepare a place for sustaining His brother's life as well as

many people's in the world.......not a literal famine,but a famine for hearing the word of God.....

which man must live by.[Rev 11;6]

     the Sons were seated in birth order around the table....He tested for  any remnants of jealousy

by giving little Benjamin 5 times the portion of his other brothers[the former jealousy over the coat

of many colours/prophesy of Joseph's position/dreams from God]

  also.....surely it was thought that a beast had devoured him[Rev 11;7]  coat of many colours rolled

in blood.................but that coat of many colours becomes the banner of love.......

   he has taken me to the banquet hall and the banner over me is love