All meat is (not) allowed

[WhiteWings]

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://doubleportioninheritance.com/files/Is_Every_Day_Alike_Romans_14.pdf

If the link is dead Google: Is_Every_Day_Alike_Romans_14.pdf

I'm afraid you have to read all 20 pages for a full understanding of her reasoning but the summary is that Paul never said eating unclean meat is right.
NT Greek has 2 words for meat:
- # 1033. broma bro-mah from the base of 977; food (literally or figuratively), especially (ceremonially) articles allowed by the Jewish law:--meat, victuals.
- # 1034. brosimos bro-sim-os; eatable (by Jewish Law):--meat

Paul was writing his letter to stop fights between former Jews and former pagans.
The Jews didn't fully trust the pagans on serving the right type of meat so only ate veggies when visiting a gentile. The gentiles were offended by that.
Other Jews viewed a vegetarian diet as not fully following the Torah in which God gave certain orders on handling meat. And by not eating meat not all of God's commands were followed.

Paul had the following answers:
a]
A vegetarian diet is fine because only later in Genesis God gave meat to eat and did not declare the former vegetarian diet obsolete. Which is correct imo. But I'm confused about Passover diner regulations in which meat is very prominent

b]
Kosher meat had to be:
- of clean animals
- properly killed -> not strangled
- drained from all blood before cooking
- had no part in pagan sacrifices --> Offerings to pagan gods often were sold on a market.

The former Jews were able to spot if the meat on their plate was a clean animal but not the way of killing, preparation etc
Paul advised a don't ask strategy. Just enjoy the meat as a happy brother in Christ.

So, according to the author, "all meat" was about all types of clean meat that possibly was not killed and/or prepared according to Torah standards. Or was possibly sacrificed to idols before sold on a market.

[Seth]

WW, what are your thoughts on the term "heaven and earth?"

[WhiteWings]

WW, what are your thoughts on the term "heaven and earth?"

That it is a trick question (to derail a thread)? :dontknow:

No idea why you ask that question.

[sheila]

I don't agree with it Tony......the Holy spirit bore wittness to Peter about it..in the vision of

the sheet come down from heaven..with all kinds of animals...clean and unclean..saying...

  Rise Peter! Kill and Eat!  Quit calling unclean what God has cleansed...where not being

perfected in the flesh.......He has all the power needed to change our mortal bodies into

incorruptible celestial flesh[dna thing spoken of in article is error]  Lazarus was stinking...

  I'm sure his dna was broken down........

   Judaizers..'superfine apstle's' tried to lay the yoke of the law on gentile beleivers.........

   a yoke even the jews couldn't bear..........

[Seth]

WW, what are your thoughts on the term "heaven and earth?"

That it is a trick question (to derail a thread)? :dontknow:

No idea why you ask that question.

No not at all. Sorry, I didn't mean to come across that way but I asked because I noticed she mentioned the "jot and tittle" scripture and indicated that since physical heaven and earth has not passed away neither has the requirements live under the Law. Actually Gary Amirault wrote an interesting article on an alternative meaning to that phrase. The reason I asked is because you have always seemed interested in understanding phraseology of ancient people as in contrast to how Westerners view those phrases today. I will try to find the link tomorrow.

[Seth]

I don't agree with it Tony......the Holy spirit bore wittness to Peter about it..in the vision of

the sheet come down from heaven..with all kinds of animals...clean and unclean..saying...

  Rise Peter! Kill and Eat!  Quit calling unclean what God has cleansed...where not being

perfected in the flesh.......He has all the power needed to change our mortal bodies into

incorruptible celestial flesh[dna thing spoken of in article is error]  Lazarus was stinking...
:dsunny:
  I'm sure his dna was broken down........

   Judaizers..'superfine apstle's' tried to lay the yoke of the law on gentile beleivers.........

   a yoke even the jews couldn't bear..........

I agree. We need to finally understand that grace through faith is the only path to righteousness. Come out from  the shadow and live through the Body. Be free!

[sheila]

something else to cnsider re dna.........sin entered Adam..and allour fleshly bodies issued from

him...his dna was crrupted when sin entered...as is all ours that bear the corrupt image.....

   born of the will of man..through an unclean emmision. Not so,Jesus the Christ...and all

  mankind that will bear the image of the incorruptible...born not of the will of man..but of

God's will and holy spirit..

[ded2daworld]

I just want to point out that Peter did NOT eat from the sheet that came down from heaven. All the unclean animals were brought back into heaven in the sheet. There are some unclean animals that you can eat and get very sick and die. Trichinosis from pigs for instance. Yes, cooking well kills the trichinae worms but the dead worms are still in the flesh. It's like the difference between a "live" vaccine and a "killed" vaccine. Adult animals are given a live vaccine shot but the newborns can't handle it and are given a "kill" vaccine where the stuff they are injecting is dead but still effective because of the young age.
If it's OK to eat any living thing, why not roaches and rats and all of the other scavenger type animals that the bible forbids.
God didn't forbid this stuff just to see if we'd obey, it's for health purposes, the same as the cleanliness laws (like handling a dead person, washing before you eat, etc.)
The sheet thing was symbolic. Peter considered non jews to be scum. God had to show him they weren't.
Animals that are "unclean" didn't become clean animals by Jesus dying on the cross. They are still scavengers and dangerous to consume. The blood is drained because the "life is in the blood" but so is death. An animal can be infected and it not show up. They don't drain the blood today because a cow is sold by weight. Blood weighs almost ten pounds per gallon. Greed at the cost of health. :sigh:

[Seth]

You can eat roaches and rats if you want to. It's allowed lat not necessarily beneficial. It will not affect your covenant relationship with Christ. That's really the main point.

[Warhawk17]

I just want to point out that Peter did NOT eat from the sheet that came down from heaven. All the unclean animals were brought back into heaven in the sheet. There are some unclean animals that you can eat and get very sick and die. Trichinosis from pigs for instance. Yes, cooking well kills the trichinae worms but the dead worms are still in the flesh. It's like the difference between a "live" vaccine and a "killed" vaccine. Adult animals are given a live vaccine shot but the newborns can't handle it and are given a "kill" vaccine where the stuff they are injecting is dead but still effective because of the young age.
If it's OK to eat any living thing, why not roaches and rats and all of the other scavenger type animals that the bible forbids.
God didn't forbid this stuff just to see if we'd obey, it's for health purposes, the same as the cleanliness laws (like handling a dead person, washing before you eat, etc.)
The sheet thing was symbolic. Peter considered non jews to be scum. God had to show him they weren't.
Animals that are "unclean" didn't become clean animals by Jesus dying on the cross. They are still scavengers and dangerous to consume. The blood is drained because the "life is in the blood" but so is death. An animal can be infected and it not show up. They don't drain the blood today because a cow is sold by weight. Blood weighs almost ten pounds per gallon. Greed at the cost of health. :sigh:

It's true, and the pig is a very good example of that. I love bacon, but just about every medical study confirms that there is a correlation between bacon and heart disease, high cholesterol, etc, and most people know to indulge only in moderation such as I did today. I had bacon for the first time in months because a family member made a dish that included bacon. Amazing how it takes modern sciences centuries to keep up with scripture sometimes.  :2c:

[Seth]

I don't believe it had anything to do with health. The dietary laws were a symbol of the wall of partition that Christ tore down bringing all tongues and nations and people together in one body. It was all a shadow

[Warhawk17]

I don't believe it had anything to do with health. The dietary laws were a symbol of the wall of partition that Christ tore down bringing all tongues and nations and people together in one body. It was all a shadow

So you're saying the dietary laws have no application for us today?

[Seth]

In terms of us needing to obey them? Nope. Not one bit.

[Seth]

WW, what are your thoughts on the term "heaven and earth?"

That it is a trick question (to derail a thread)? :dontknow:

No idea why you ask that question.

Here is that article about Heaven and Earth and New Heaven and New Earth:

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/heavenandearth.htm

[ded2daworld]

The Dietary laws do not affect you spiritually but they do affect your health. Check out the book
"None of These Diseases" where a medical doctor uses study after study to show that you are just plain better off physically to obey the Old testament dietary laws.
People are not better spiritually if they obey them, in fact, they are usually worse spiritually because they are either proud of themselves for doing it or think those that don't are doing wrong spiritually besides physically. Worse some do both.  :sigh:

By the way, this book was instrumental in bringing me to Christ from atheism because there is no way Moses understood the health reasons why he was told to do stuff since they didn't know about bacteria then. Thousands of years for science to catch up.  To me it was proof that there really was a God.

Before Joseph Lister (Listerine) came on the scene, doctors would do an autopsy bare handed and then do gynecologicals bare handed without washing their hands. Doctors in the late 1800's simply didn't believe in bacteria.

[Seth]

The Dietary laws do not affect you spiritually but they do affect your health. Check out the book
"None of These Diseases" where a medical doctor uses study after study to show that you are just plain better off physically to obey the Old testament dietary laws.

People are not better spiritually if they obey them, in fact, they are usually worse spiritually because they are either proud of themselves for doing it or think those that don't are doing wrong spiritually besides physically. Worse some do both.

I could see it being better from a health perspective. Although, mad cow disease has been a big problem lately, and I have seen many recalls of beef products in recent years. So, you never know. Kosher food can actually be very fatty and greasy which itself can go rancid and carry bacteria. It's probably better to just be vegetarian.

Anyway, it's good to make the distinction that you make. Once we get back into the Law, for covenant reasons, we are having our own righteousness which is not of faith, and that which is not of faith is sin. The Lord made us to be free, and free indeed.

[WhiteWings]

I don't agree with it Tony......the Holy spirit bore wittness to Peter about it..in the vision of

the sheet come down from heaven..with all kinds of animals...clean and unclean..saying...

  Rise Peter! Kill and Eat!  Quit calling unclean what God has cleansed...where not being

perfected in the flesh.......He has all the power needed to change our mortal bodies into

incorruptible celestial flesh[dna thing spoken of in article is error]  Lazarus was stinking...

  I'm sure his dna was broken down........

   Judaizers..'superfine apstle's' tried to lay the yoke of the law on gentile beleivers.........

   a yoke even the jews couldn't bear..........

http://doubleportioninheritance.blogspot.com/2011/07/did-jesus-make-all-foods-clean_2211.html
http://doubleportioninheritance.blogspot.com/2011/12/by-merola-copyright-double-portion.html

[mplsfitter539]

I don't agree with it Tony......the Holy spirit bore wittness to Peter about it..in the vision of

the sheet come down from heaven..with all kinds of animals...clean and unclean..saying...

  Rise Peter! Kill and Eat!  Quit calling unclean what God has cleansed...where not being

perfected in the flesh.......He has all the power needed to change our mortal bodies into

incorruptible celestial flesh[dna thing spoken of in article is error]  Lazarus was stinking...

  I'm sure his dna was broken down........

   Judaizers..'superfine apstle's' tried to lay the yoke of the law on gentile beleivers.........

   a yoke even the jews couldn't bear..........

http://doubleportioninheritance.blogspot.com/2011/07/did-jesus-make-all-foods-clean_2211.html
http://doubleportioninheritance.blogspot.com/2011/12/by-merola-copyright-double-portion.html

This is very good information WW. You should have posted this on the christmas again thread for Seth to read. What most "Christians" have learned from the "church" is wrong and they need to do their own research so they can prove (to themselves) what they believe. 

[Seth]

I did read it. I believe the reasoning is wrong. All foods are clean indeed.

[Seth]

Every article on this issue makes the "heaven and earth" mistake addressed in the article I posted above.

[sheila]

everyone seems to by-pass the sanctifying of His spirit.  His spirit is what sanctify's or makes clean

  not what we eat,wear..etc..  if His spirit[presence] is in a bush..it is Holy because He is there.

[standing on Holy ground/take your sandals off]


   now,in the old law covenant..if something sacred/sanctified/meat touched something unclean..the

meat become defiled[thus showing the leavening effect of sin/through one man all men become

sinners]..but that is NOT so with Jesus Christ[Abrahams seed]  Jesus touches lepers/the deaad.

etc...and Christ does not become unclean..but the unclean become CLEAN!!!!!!!!!! the Kingdom

of Heaven is in your midst!!! the kingdom of heaven is like a woman that took leavening and hid it

in three measures of flour...until all of it was leavened!!!!!!

    Lord..if you want to...you can make me clean........


.......you are clean...but not alll....one of you has a devil....the betrayer of Christ turns Him over to

the lawyers/doctors/religious leaders of the law...to be put to death as a blasphemer..............

  with his wages of betrayl that he returns in repentance....the religious leaders purchase

the potters feild....such religious leaders..desire to remake your dead flesh over into their image

and likeness...outwardly white but full of dead mens bones...and truly we are to let the dead bury

the dead.......and follow Him.

[Seth]

now,in the old law covenant..if something sacred/sanctified/meat touched something unclean..the

meat become defiled[thus showing the leavening effect of sin/through one man all men become

sinners]..but that is NOT so with Jesus Christ[Abrahams seed]  Jesus touches lepers/the deaad.

etc...and Christ does not become unclean..but the unclean become CLEAN!!!!!!!!!!

Beautiful...

[sheila]

He told them that He had meat to eat that they knew not of...to do the works of His Father........

    raise the dead cleanse the leopers,open the eyes of the blind..the ears of the deaf...make whole

   the shriveled up arm...the lame to walk.....................

   if anyone be concerned as to what 'meat' be clean or unclean...I highly suggest that you seek this

  hidden meat that ye know not of.[manna from heaven]

...........when the gentiles received this Holy spirit of Christ/true bread from heaven..and become

partakers of His blood and flesh[eat it] then they becomme clean..whether gentiles or jews.

  if any of you would do the will of God..you would see that what I speak is true......

 

[rosered]

He told them that He had meat to eat that they knew not of...to do the works of His Father........

    raise the dead cleanse the leopers,open the eyes of the blind..the ears of the deaf...make whole

   the shriveled up arm...the lame to walk.....................

   if anyone be concerned as to what 'meat' be clean or unclean...I highly suggest that you seek this

  hidden meat that ye know not of.[manna from heaven]

...........when the gentiles received this Holy spirit of Christ/true bread from heaven..and become

partakers of His blood and flesh[eat it] then they becomme clean..whether gentiles or jews.

  if any of you would do the will of God..you would see that what I speak is true......

amen sis!!  well said !! ,   and    just what I was thinking all along   with this thread  :thumbsup:

[FreeAtLast]

theres a reason behind he made some things unclean and not food for man--let me give you a example---

shell fish are unclean and not food for man--do you know why and what purpose they serve ???

shell fish absorbs the pollutions of the waters and purifies the water---what man is doing is eating them all up and the waters are becoming polluted--our water source is depleting  all over the world because man loves to disobey the Father--and also all the diseases in the world that man has and sickness ????

Did our father really know what he was doing when he made them unclean ???  think about it for a moment    :dsunny:

Hes a loving Father who cares about our well being and about his creation and man is not only destroying his health and water sources but creation also

this is only 1 example-- unclean is still unclean and clean is still the only thing considered food for man.   :HeartThrob: :HeartThrob: