Rom 2:16 - In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Chris.

[musicman]

I was recently in discussion with someone about the universal salvation and the hell doctrine etc...  And she cam up with some good points I thought I would share with you all. 

Begin Quote:

According to Romans 2:11-16 we are given reason to hope that God is at work with those who do not yet know Jesus:  "For there is no partiality with God.  For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law; and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; for not the hearers of the Law are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.  For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law these, not having the Law are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written on their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thoughts alternatively accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Jesus Christ."  So, Paul seems to suggest that God will take our knowledge into consideration, and he judges according and through Jesus, who is the author of salvation.  For, as Paul tells it, we are all Jews (meaning chosen by God) when "we are a Jew inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God." (Romans 2:29)

The specific verse I have found helpful is Romans 2:16, which I have quoted above.  Paul states in verse 16, "according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus."  I believe that if we are to be judged by Jesus, then we are most fortunate!  The way Jesus lived his life and the way in which he dealt with those who deserved judgment gives me hope about the way in which he will judge all of humanity on the last day.  Judgment and punishment are two different things; and the judgment of God may lead to a restoration that we cannot conceive.

End quote:


I really like how she talks about that the final judgement GOD will do through jesus.  And its so true if we look how jesus treated those who were sinners is so compassionate and loving.  Look at what he said when the men hung him on the cross, he said,  "Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do"  Jesus would never say, go to hell.  lol.  jesus said forgive our enemies.  People seem to argue the fact, If universal salvation is real then how do you explain being in heaven with hitler, etc....  Well I'm pretty sure jesus will forgive him, and I'm sure in heaven hitler won't have those sinful spirits with him so we would see his godly self made in the image of god that we would love and accept as a brother.    I guess the one part that still is confusing to me that if what I say above is true, then why is it so important for us to repent while here on earth?  Is it just so we can be freeed of bondage of "the devil" or evil or whatever you want to call it.  beig through lots of new age and other modalities of "healing" finding jesus has been the most powerful for me.  So maybe all the repenting and calling jesus into our hearts makes our life here on earth more freeing, but is it needing for salvation?  I guess we'll find out!

Adam.

[WhiteWings]

According to Romans 2:11-16 we are given reason to hope that God is at work with those who do not yet know Jesus:  "For there is no partiality with God.  For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law; and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; for not the hearers of the Law are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.  For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law these, not having the Law are a law to themselves, in that they show the work of the Law written on their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thoughts alternatively accusing or else defending them, on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Jesus Christ."  So, Paul seems to suggest that God will take our knowledge into consideration,

True.
Luke 12"48 But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.

and he judges according and through Jesus, who is the author of salvation.

Jesus is the judge.

John 5:22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son.

Judge and jury wrapped into one.
Revelation 2:17 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give that person a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to the one who receives it.

==> White stone always means not guilty.
Click


An article you may (partly) like: http://www.truegospel.com/judgment.html

[sheila]

when God judges the secrets of men..it is the hidden things being revealed[for that reason judge

nothing before the appointed time...and judge not by appearance of the eyes] coz there are invisible

things that must be revealed that are at work unseen behind the visible creation.

   we all know that all men have bore the image of the corruptible...and that 'sin' in the flesh has

been condemned in all men. also we know the Lamb of God takes away all the sins of the world.

   we also know that through Jesus Christ all men shall receive the free gift of righteousness...

    and that all men shall also bear the image of the incorruptible one.


     man of sin is hidden and revealed and done away with the breath of His coming......[mystery

   of iniquity/godlessness].

     man's sin's are blotted out.[Christ's blood]..that he may have his name in the book of life..thus

man is hidden in Christ[Mystery of God]


   the time will come when God himself will finish your'e training..and you will behold things ye had

not beheld..you shall watch demons plotting ruin on the bodies of men..taking them into captivity

into sin works.  You will hear things ye had not.....and then your spirit shall be just and perfect

in understanding..and you will make perfect judgements as spirits of just men made perfect.


    You will agree with Jesus as the sins of the people are confessed onto the head of the

scapegoat...and go off to destruction............for this reason,Jesus said,judge not,lest ye be judged

         and judge nothing before the appointed time.


     Jesus Christ openly triumphed aagainst them...speaking directly to these evil spirits on the

bodies of men..ordering them out...nothing hidden in the darkness remained so with Him....

  the Spirit of God was in Him..the Power also..and God knows what lies in the darkness

    when you agree with these murdering lying spirits that God will burn His children in the fire

  when He says it has never entered His heart...and has in scripture that the LOF is prepared

for the devil and his demons...you are promoting satan's doctrines..and Baal's/Molechs

   Michael said..when disputing over the body of Moses...'The Lord rebuke thee,satan..."

   Clean garments for the preist's...Zech 3;1  He showed me Joshua the high preist standing before

the angel of the Lord,and satan standing at his right hand to accuse him.  The Lord said to satan

  the LORD REBUKE YOU SATAN! The Lord who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you!

   IS NOT THIS MAAN A BURNING STICK SNATCHED FROM THE FIRE?[dead branches of the Lord's vine

are purged[of evil spirits] and snatched from the fire.  their filthy clothes are removed[sin]

  and rich garments[best robes] are put on them..a clean turban[unclean spirit/thoughts gone and

replaced with thoughts of God/mind of Christ....


    Listen O'High preist Joshua and your associates seated before you.......................


WHO ARE SYMBOLIC OF THINGS TO COME..[I am telling you now,so that when it happens.....]


   I AM GOING TO BRING MY SERVANT THE BRANCH! SEE the stone I have set in front of Joshua?

   There are seven eyes on that one stone, and I will engrave[engraven you on the palm of my

hand] an inscription on it,says the Lord Almighty...and I will remove the sin of this land

in a single day.

[Seth]

Hi musicman, here is my take:

Isaiah 28:17
Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

See a recent post about "Hail and Fire Mingled with Blood"

Man finds a hiding place in a refuge of lies. He said to the people following the Law of Moses, that they were like whitewashed tombs but full of dead men's bones. The Law was there to show them their sin, and they knew it, but they hid in a refuge of lies, because that is what man's own righteousness affords him:  the ability to have a hiding place.

Jesus Christ says he will not judge the world, but the WORD will judge them.

John 12
46I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. 47And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

His father gave him the word word which shall judge the world. The question is, WHERE is Christ's mouth today? It's among his people.

Revelation 22
The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let the one who hears say, "Come!" Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.

In Romans 1, we see the manner in which God sends wrath from heaven like fire: to turn people over to their own sin. The judgment of the world by Christ comes through his people who say: YOU ARE THIRSTY.

The Laodicean mind says, "No I am not. I don't need water." They say they see, so their sin remains. But the Prodigal Son finally saw how thirsty he was, and that is when he repented.

That is when "the waters overflowed the hiding place."

[jbertonbounds]

Romans 2:16b - "God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus." [ESV]

[Seth]

Ephesians 5:30 for we are members of his body.

[jbertonbounds]

It sounds like this person is close to believing in Universal Salvation, but that she is leaving a lot up to the old "We won't know til we get to heaven" catch-all statement.  The fact is, we do know from the scriptures that ALL people will be saved eventually.  We also know that God is not a torturer, and that he is a just god.  We know hell does not exist.  If you could help get past some of the key ET obstacles, like their belief that "the bible is inerrant," then you might could help her find her way into the light (if the Father is drawing/dragging her - not that he needs help, but you know what I mean).  Maybe you could explain to her the difference between the inspired scriptures and bible translations. 

Believe me and believe the scriptures, repentance and following Jesus matters!  When one is given faith, it is extremely important to set aside all know sin in your life and make every effort to live according to God's precepts, and be steadfast!  Paul urged his church flocks over and over to be faithful.  The scriptures promise us that those who overcome will be given eonian life at the first resurrection, and will be given the privilege to reign with the Christ during the great millennium.  Don't under-estimate the wonders of this promised blessing, my brother!  Rev 20:6 - "Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years." [ESV]

[JulieTang84]

This person is so much closer to the truth than many would be Christians.

Jesus said he came to save to World, rather than to condemn.   John 3:17

Also

Luk 6:37
¶
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

Repenting is not lip service, rather it is a change of heart
   
1Ki 8:47
and if they have a change of heart in the land where they are held captive, and repent and plead with you in the land of their captors and say, 'We have sinned, we have done wrong, we have acted wickedly';

2Ch 6:37
and if they have a change of heart in the land where they are held captive, and repent and plead with you in the land of their captivity and say, 'We have sinned, we have done wrong and acted wickedly'
   
Mat 5:8
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
   
2Ti 1:9
He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,

I believe this to be important, not anything we have done, or for that matter can do. We must not be true to ourselves, but rather be true to Father Always and Trust like our lives depend on it, for it surely does.

Not inasmuch as we will die if we do not, but rather what is Life without the Love and Gifts of Father through Christ Jesus? I say existing not living  :HeartThrob:

Loe Julie

[Seth]

 :goodpost: