The believer and human government: What saith the Scriptures?

[Seth]

I agree, the cross contained in the Gospel is the offense.

[anna274]

I loathe the fact that my tax money is used for performing legalized abortions -- particularly in Third World Countries... but if our government would force abortions as China does, I would disobey... 

[eaglesway]

I think the cross is a stumbling block because of all it represents. No greater love has a man than this than to lay down his life for his friends. And all that the prophets and Messiah taught. Love the Lord your God with all your heart......and your neighbor as yourself.

It appears to me that Christians have religionized (not speaking to anyone here) the cross so much that they feel as if it is a sin to speak out on subjects of interest to the general community they are in. I see it a little differently. If we are to be salt and light it is not just by shouting "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus....." because a whole lot of folks are doing that with ever decreasing results.

I want to be where Jesus was in my testimony. He spoke about many things, especially unrighteous leaders and the misuse of money. I think Christians should be "in the mix" but not so much as political activists but definitely as honest participants.

I see the issues of poverty and inequity and injustice as being the deeper causes of problems like drug use, violence and abortion. And I wonder why we are not activated as a people on those issues.

Probably because we as a people are as guilty in those areas as the world is- buildings and ministries galore but barely a penny for the needy and the hungry and the sick- all that opportunity to win souls by generosity lost under the ambitions of men and their unwillingness to "hear Jesus" on the issues that to me, are where the rubber meets the road.

I was thirsty, I was hungry, I was naked, I was in prison...............

[Seth]

Amen on all the above.  :thumbsup:

I would also add a bit of my own testimony to say that when I was physically fed, clothed and free, I was spiritually hungry, naked and imprisoned. That speaks to the limitations of what the Government can provide and why I don't get involved with it. I pay taxes but I don't get involved because our government has no better food than the stuff that perishes.

[marie glen]

Because I have many very strong objections to how our government functions and "hate" that my money is being used to carry out those functions, I find myself often "obeying" the exhortation 1 Tim 2:1-4. with special emphasis on v. 4 Who will have ALL men to be saved, and come unto the knowledge of truth.

I always keep in mind that man cannot fix man, only God can fix man.(Ps 118:8)
and "Fear ye not, stand still, and SEE the salvation of the Lord, which He will show you this day... "  Ex.14:13   

Actually, I do believe that PRAYER is more powerful than PROTEST (the loud and public type, that is...   Prayer may not change the government functions that I do not approve... however, a delightful peace enters my whole being just knowing that God oversees all...  this calmness on my part has brought comfort to at least a couple of the tenants here... they know that I have a deep, deep faith ...

hi, Anna! I found myself focusing or noticing a lot "man cannot fix man"

I think that's the way the world is headed.. a last great hurrah (so to speak) where the 'religion' of carnal man (besides mammon!!) that is called the theory of evolution (macro, macro "natural selection" which does not happen, but is an adult fairy tale:)

evolution (as to origins) has declared man as god (as the higher and highest power).. this religion, like others, needs, or has, prophecy.. the hope that man can fix the troubles of the world (which we know of as caused by man's imperfection/sin(s)..

It actually will be (and is) a beautiful dream and hope.. world peace.. feeding the poor and impoverished by better, more equal sharing of all earth's resources.. but the fatal flaw is still the same.. man's imperfection and even corruption and power.. corrupts.. especially absolute power, but absolute power is what will be required to fix the world's troubles.. (the whole thing will only end up as Rev 17:16)

I agree with what I think you said, that it's a fine line, and a little bit confusing as to just where that line is.. between pray, obey and pay.. especially the obey and pay parts.. but there's really not much we can do about it.. except the 1st part, pray! :smile: it doesn't mean we have to join the persecution when the world gets determined to remove what hinders their agenda and dream..

and I think we can speak truth whenever the Spirit of God moves us to (which actually getting us to hold our tongue is likely harder to accomplish than getting most of us to speak :laughing7: )

It's a very good thread!! Very timely, for these times..!! And very good posts of everyone addressing that fine line which is getting more tricky..

:icon_flower: :thumbsup:

[eaglesway]

Prayer is definitely more powerful than anything, and is the bedrock foundation of anything accomplished among men.

Yet, the prophets spoke and they received their words from the Holy Spirit. They spoke to the people of God about injustice to their neighbors and inequity in business as well as unfaithfulness in marriage and many other things.

They spoke to the nations about their ravaging and war and even spoke to specific rulers.

The tides of men ebb and flow and the currents of time carry a lot of flotsam and jetsam but God is in, around and allthrough it all.

When the church refuses to pray for justice and has no salt in its message, the Lord still speaks in a myriad of ways- and of course, His saints will persevere in prayer- that the body of Christ will stand, that the kingdom will rise, and that our government is maintained in such a way that men can live in peace and our gospel can go forward :o)