Christian Rap ???????

[mplsfitter539]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEjxfUK5r9A   This guy uses "Christian Rap" as an example how a wolf looks in sheeps clothing. And how not to worship like the heathen worships. Don't do as the heathen and say you are doing it for Yahweh. Yahweh is very explicit on how He will be worshiped. Yahweh gets all the glory in everything. Worship to Him will be on His terms which He makes very clear in His Word.

The heathen sends his child into the surrounding neighborhood looking like a zombie or a serial killer on the most pagan holiday. Holiday means Holy day. That is how they worship their god. Yahweh will not be mocked.

[Graph1159]

I'm not sure if you're posting this to say that you agree or disagree (or are undecided).

Yahweh is very explicit on how He will be worshiped. Yahweh gets all the glory in everything. Worship to Him will be on His terms which He makes very clear in His Word.

As far as musical composition goes, what are these terms? I'm not a fan of rap, but in its essence it's just continuous speaking with rhythm; I don't understand why this would be immoral. As far as rap being heathen, I don't know of a style of music that originated in the church (other than possibly Gregorian chants). I think that the musical style of traditional hymns was "cool" at one time.

I didn't watch the video (because I have heard many arguments against contemporary Christian music), so forgive me if these points were addressed there. If they were addressed I'll watch it.

[Tom]

I'm not a fan of rap because I think it's monotonous, but I think any music is simply a medium of expression. Lyrics carry a message. If the message praises God, it doesn't matter what kind of music is used. Just because some Satan worshipers like heavy metal music doesn't mean heavy metal Christian music is Satanic. Different folks like different music. I was raised on rock and roll, but then I got into blues, folk, bluegrass, country, jazz, and even some classical. I think the important thing is that whatever kind of music is used, the lyrics should be the evangel of God.

"God is spirit, and those who are worshiping Him must be worshiping in spirit and truth." (John 4:24)

[sheila]

to the unclean all things are unclean. Acts 19;12...and Jesus clothing being touched healed........

   it depends on whaat spirit is  using anything,as far as I see,brother. 

[Warhawk17]

I agree with you Tom, but I personally despise mainstream Christian music. I feel that many churches in attempt to modernize and worry more about entertainment than teaching sound doctrine. Modern Christian music I feel is very deceptive and often produced with a large profit in mind. In my opinion the music is usually terrible as well so there's no way I'm ever listening to it. I like some hymns and older church songs, but we need to be careful because many of them could contain an unsound message.

I personally am not as crazy about Christmas anymore like I used to be, but I do enjoy a lot of Christmas hymns, and I enjoy listening when they start coming on the radio this time of year. Although we need to be careful with those too. I watched a Martin Zender video where he pointed out some non scriptural heresy in some of the more well known Christmas carols. The funny thing is though there are some hymns that do have the message of UR so the congregations sing that, and then they listen to the preacher tell them they're all going to hell.

[Seth]

One thing I like about worship music, and hymns, is that sometimes they accidentally proclaim God's sovereign ability to have everyone saved. While maybe not explicitly, the music I sang in my old church presented a strong, capable, loving, sovereign God capable of doing everything he needs to perfect his creation and create man in his own image. Then you get to the preaching and it all falls apart.

[jbertonbounds]

MY (JBERTON) RESONSE IN RED

I agree with you Tom, but I personally despise mainstream Christian music. ME TOO! I feel that many churches in attempt to modernize and worry more about entertainment than teaching sound doctrine. Modern Christian music I feel is very deceptive and often produced with a large profit in mind.  :iagree: In my opinion the music is usually terrible as well so there's no way I'm ever listening to it. I like some hymns and older church songs, but we need to be careful because many of them could contain an unsound message.  ABSOLUTELY!

I personally am not as crazy about Christmas anymore like I used to be, but I do enjoy a lot of Christmas hymns, and I enjoy listening when they start coming on the radio this time of year. Although we need to be careful with those too. I watched a Martin Zender video where he pointed out some non scriptural heresy in some of the more well known Christmas carols. The funny thing is though there are some hymns that do have the message of UR so the congregations sing that ACTUALLY MY EX-CHURCH DID THAT WITH THE SONG "NOW IS THE TIME TO WORSHIP", WHERE IT SAYS, "ONE DAY EVERY TONGUE WILL CONFESS HE IS LORD, ONE DAY EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW, STILL THE GREATEST TREASURE REMAINS FOR THOSE WHO GLADLY CHOOSE HIM NOW" - IT SHOWS YOU HOW MUCH THEY PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT THEY'RE SINGING , and then they listen to the preacher tell them they're all going to hell.

[jbertonbounds]

I was just thinking the other day about how I really hate the mainstream gospel music because of a funny, uncomfortable feeling it has always given me.  I heard some such music recently and I felt a sense of oppression/depression in my soul.  I couldn't wait to get away from that music!  I had to question why it cast that darkness over me, and I think I know why now.  Growing up in an ET preacher's home, dragged to church 3 or more times a week, and having had all that ET pumped into my brain - then my parents would listen to the mainstream gospel music (often Gaithers) for hours at a time and cassette tapes of other preachers preaching ET - It's no wonder I attached negative feelings to gospel music!  Now I enjoy only a select few gospel songs, usually music produced in the last few years.

That's proof that ET repels people from the gospel!

[Seth]

Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

[jbertonbounds]

Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

I'm not sure this describes most ET churches.  They do unintentionally mix lies with truth, but they also are believers, they do worship, and they do do good deeds in the name of Jesus.

I think your verse there applies more to individuals within the churches who don't really have the love of Jesus in their hearts.

[Seth]

The term "in vain" means without purpose, or in folly. That's demonstrably true of the ET no matter their sincerity. It has nothing to do with sincerity. I worshiped in all sincerity and emotional love to the Lord, but I realized later, it was in vain because Christ's purpose is to save people from the doctrines my church was preaching. It goes beyond ET too, and gets into all sorts of commandments of men, like tithing, something else I submitted to while worshiping in folly.

[jbertonbounds]

The term "in vain" means without purpose, or in folly. That's demonstrably true of the ET no matter their sincerity. It has nothing to do with sincerity. I worshiped in all sincerity and emotional love to the Lord, but I realized later, it was in vain because Christ's purpose is to save people from the doctrines my church was preaching. It goes beyond ET too, and gets into all sorts of commandments of men, like tithing, something else I submitted to while worshiping in folly.

I respectfully, but strongly, disagree.

[Seth]

That's ok. Disagreement is part of life.  :HeartThrob: :friendstu:

[jbertonbounds]

I disagree because, by your logic, if there is any false doctrine within your entire belief system, then your worship is all in vain, no matter how sincere you are when you worship.  You would have to be perfect in all your doctrine.  I don't believe that is possible.

[Seth]

That's not what I said though. Don't forget the "commandments of men" part of that scripture. Being wrong about doctrine and seeking the heart of the Lord to find truth, is much different than following the commandments of men rather than Christ. Big difference.

[jbertonbounds]

In the greater context of Matthew 15, Jesus was addressing the Pharisees, who did not believe in him, nor accept him, at all.  This context does not describe, nor apply to, our modern Christian churches.

[Seth]

I believe Jesus is speaking about the larger issue of following the commandments of men and teaching them for doctrines. Belief in Christ does not mean that those who circumcise themselves, for example, to make themselves right with God have not fallen away from growth in Grace. Belief in Christ and disobedience to his doctrines results in vain worship. It doesn't result in insincere worship. Just, worship that is done in folly. Anyone who believes in ET is in folly on that issue, and it's a major issue. I don't think that's a controversial point to say that ET is in folly. When they worship, they are worshiping in folly because they are spreading a false gospel, one that is of no effect because it is the result of the commandments of men, ie CREEDS.

And since when were the Pharisees worshiping Christ?

[jbertonbounds]

That's not what I said though. Don't forget the "commandments of men" part of that scripture. Being wrong about doctrine and seeking the heart of the Lord to find truth, is much different than following the commandments of men rather than Christ. Big difference.

I certainly agree that the doctrines of man are a huge problem.  I left the organized church because of the false doctrine, the lies mixed with truth.  My decision to leave the church (not the ecclesia) was of a great personal cost to me, but I know it was the Lord who was pulling me out.  Still, I see the love in the hearts of those people around the community, I see their good deeds, and I have worshiped with them and know they are truly worshiping Yahweh, and that Yahweh accepts their worship as a whole.  (That does not necessarily apply to every individual in that church.)  But that church belongs to the Christ, and IMHO they do not worship him in vain.

[Seth]

Well, I guess we just have to agree to disagree. I believe, worshiping Christ, then following and spreading a false Gospel, to me is folly, and without effect.

[Seth]

I just don't understand how someone who "did not believe in him, nor accept him" would also be worshiping him.  :Chinscratch:

[jbertonbounds]

Webster says folly means: (1) the lack of good sense or judgment, (2) a foolish act or idea, (3) foolish behavior.

The word "folly" definitely applies to the teaching of false doctrine like Et.
I don't see where it applies to a sincere believer worshiping his God, even is his doctrine is flawed.
Like I said, who among us does not have a flaw in our personal doctrines?

[Seth]

Webster says folly means: (1) the lack of good sense or judgment, (2) a foolish act or idea, (3) foolish behavior.

The word "folly" definitely applies to the teaching of false doctrine like Et.
I don't see where it applies to a sincere believer worshiping his God, even is his doctrine is flawed.
Like I said, who among us does not have a flaw in our personal doctrines?

Because they are following the commandments of men...

Personal flaw in doctrines to a searching, humble Christian, is much different than rejecting God's word and following the commandments of men instead. When they stop following the commandments of men, they will reject their former creeds.

[jbertonbounds]

I just don't understand how someone who "did not believe in him, nor accept him" would also be worshiping him.  :Chinscratch:

Matthew 15 was directed at the Pharisees, who were very religious and devout.
Yet they "worshiped in vain" because they didn't really know God's love because they did not have his love in their hearts.
Remember that the entire law is summed up in love.

[Seth]

I just don't understand how someone who "did not believe in him, nor accept him" would also be worshiping him.  :Chinscratch:

Matthew 15 was directed at the Pharisees, who were very religious and devout.
Yet they "worshiped in vain" because they didn't really know God's love because they did not have his love in their hearts.
Remember that the entire law is summed up in love.

So they did believe, and they did accept God, yet they worshiped in vain...

[jbertonbounds]

Webster says folly means: (1) the lack of good sense or judgment, (2) a foolish act or idea, (3) foolish behavior.

The word "folly" definitely applies to the teaching of false doctrine like Et.
I don't see where it applies to a sincere believer worshiping his God, even is his doctrine is flawed.
Like I said, who among us does not have a flaw in our personal doctrines?

Because they are following the commandments of men...

Personal flaw in doctrines to a searching, humble Christian, is much different than rejecting God's word and following the commandments of men instead. When they stop following the commandments of men, they will reject their former creeds.

I agree.  There certainly are different degrees of error in different believers.  Who is to say where to draw the line between those believers who worship in truth and those believers who worship in vain?  Can a human really make that judgment?