False Prophet and the Beast

[WhiteWings]

His color has nothing to do with it. I have seen video footage of him admitting that he has the Islamic faith.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCAffMSWSzY

"The sweetest sound I know is the Muslim call to prayer" - Barack Hussein Obama

The government of the USA is based on freedom of religion and separation of church and state because the founders knew the dangers of a theocracy from their experience in Europe.

And they failed. Obama failed by making religious statements. All politics is 'religion'. They all ram their views/ways through the people's throat's. There was nothing wrong with the religion in Europe. It was the extremism in religion that was wrong. Just as there is nothing wrong with capitalism, socialism, communism, patriotism, etc.
It goes wrong if it becomes extreme.

That's why I say I don't even think the Christian religion, in other words church doctrine, should be running our country. Whether Obama is a Christian, as he says he is, a Muslim, or an Atheist, it doesn't matter according to the US Constitution.

No but it matters how such a (group of) person(s) rule a country. Of course it matters a lot if that person is moderate or extreme in his/her views. Have you ever considered all political views are doctrine? The source varies but that's it.

If anybody, including Obama and any of you here on this forum, claim to be a Christian, I take your word for it,

Would you still believe it if saw that person pray in a mosque? Acts speak stronger than words. So he should just be honest. Then the voter can decide what to do with that info.

My whole point is people act on their personality/views. And ultimately it doesn't matter how those views were formed. Trough religion, racist parents, etc.

I'm not promoting a theocracy but weeding out Christianity in favor or other believes is just that. (should a Christian pursue a Christian nation?)
Why not ban Christmas signs but not Halloween? Why not change the names of the days because they are all pagan?
Even more why not change the name of the country?
America means "God's Greater Estate of the Heavenly Kingdom"

No Tom this is a discussion you won't win in even a billion years.

/EDIT Not because you are wrong about what's (not) written in the constitution but what's actually done.

Bonus question: When the constitution speaks about religion what is the definition of religion. I'm not from the USA as you know but my country's 'constitution' has freedom of religion also. Nowadays that's read as any imaginable religion. Back then, for example, satanism certainly didn't qualify as a religion. It was mostly a term for a zillion Christian denominations that have cause an endless string of war in Europe's past.

[Jock]

Tom

I found this link from Pat Condell which is the same sort of theme that was in the link I tried to send you yesterday.   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1PnMWCOeH4

Also, This was in the news today


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world/middle_east/

The very thing that Pat is talking about.

Jock.

[Lazarus Short]

Even more why not change the name of the country?
America means "God's Greater Estate of the Heavenly Kingdom"

There are a lot of theories about the name "America."  My Persian friend, Parviz, once mentioned the Farsi phrase "Ame Rica," meaning "My Son."  Others say it comes from the Gothic language, others from that obscure Italian geographer.  I subscribe to the theory that it derives from the name of a Bristol merchant, Richard Amerike, whose coat of arms looks like an abbreviated stars & stripes.

[Lazarus Short]

The government of the USA is based on freedom of religion and separation of church and state...

It cannot be said too often:  Separation of church and state is a doctrine of man, but the Constitution (which now seems to be only an historical document :sigh:) simply states that the Congress shall not pass any law having to do with an ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION, that is to say, the Congress is forbidden to set up a State Church.  However the 501(c)(3) tax exemption, and the government's instruction to the churches as to what it may do and teach to keep the exemption, have set up all the tax-exempt churches as a State Church. 

[anna274]

Re:  "My whole point is people act on their personality/views.  And ultimately it doesn't matter how those views were formed."

I agree as per Psalm 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man.

or
Man cannot fix man
Only God can fix man

which He did/does through the finished work of Jesus Christ

BTW  Psalm 118:8 is the center verse of the entire Bible.

[marie glen]

Biblical Prophecy sometimes repeats itself. Often one Prophecy has two meanings for different times. It's possible that all Prophecy is this way and we don't know it is because the second Prophecy hasn't happened yet. I want to discuss the false prophet and the Beast that get thrown into the lake of fire.
I think God gave us clues as to the identity of them or at least where to look for them. Daniel tells us that Beasts are nations so we know that this Beast is a nation. Now what Prophet in history didn't prophetize? Muhammad is called the "Prophet Muhammad" but what were his prophecies? Nothing really. When we look close we see him asserting before battles that his enemies would die and then they would.  Anyone can predict winning a battle if they have overwhelming force. Then there was the time he predicted a win and lost so he fails the Prophet test on that one failed prophecy. I assert the false prophet is Muhammad and the nation (Beast) is Islam. Muhammad never did any "signs and wonders" so Muhammad was just a demonic man but my assertion is a new false prophet will come from Islam showing signs and wonders. I think God gave us enough hints as to where to look for him.

hi! :hiya:
I definitely agree that history repeats itself, and Bible prophecy is often at least parallel, with a more or less 'immediate' fulfillment of the day when it is given and a final 'end' days fulfillment..

I think the false prophet of today's world is one which brought about the biggest change to 'Christendom' - I ended up with this view due to a question, "what are the strongest forces at work upon man today?"

It's my belief the false prophet began as a man (Darwin) and is now more, having turned western civilization on its ear.. and now it's white frocked magicians do modern marvels and wonders which lead astray, including the ones of rev 13:13 and 13:15-18.

It's my belief the dove (progressivism/socialism) will harness the vulture (Rev 4:20d who beheads). "The vulture will be where the body is.."

It's my belief there are two beasts (governings/governments of man) of Rev chapter 13 - (1-10) the big beast, or world beast / world body (verses 1-10) and the 'little' beast (11-18) which is an office of man (we have his number).

Imo, this office having been pinpointed by its releasing a new fire (windy, rev 6:12-17, described as a braiding of what it is when it first appears/is used, and what it is in its fully progressed/galloped form at the 'end', a clever hide the vision for a time devise) - pinpointing the office - 13:13

It's my opinion, the 'little' beast / two horned office - Rev 13:13 brought fire from the sky to earth in the sight of man, which convinced them to rebuild the 'big' beast, the final one of the "prince to come" (the 'little' beast steps into the 'big' beast/world body, giving it life/breath/authority (13:15) who makes an accord(Dan 9:27) - the Hebrew of Strong's ='s "covenant, league" of "peace! peace!" for one week of years at the 'end', "but they won't reaLLy cleave"(Dn2,the "ten toes")

The "ten kings"/divisions/"toes" of the last "one hour" will devour the global $iTy, the harlot (Greek="pornos" to sell; she uses her enchantments and fornications to beguile, mesmerize all seven hills/continents and 'sell! sell!' - the kings/politicians are in bed with her/"fornicating with her")

She has a golden cup of her side effects (murders, abortions, perversions, sex slave trade / "the bodies and souls of persons" is on her long list of products and luxuries she sells)

Imo, Rev 17:16, is the ten kings/divisions of the final world beast/world body (world governing/government), finally devours (consumes) capitalism.. "BabbleOn (and on) has fallen! fallen!" crashed..

The false prophet (teaching which leads astray, big time!)and the (world) beast (body/government) are thrown into the LOF at Jesus' return.. I believe they are active in final days of man's empire(s) a figurative alive - "thrown alive into the LOF"

[Tom]

His color has nothing to do with it. I have seen video footage of him admitting that he has the Islamic faith.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCAffMSWSzY

"The sweetest sound I know is the Muslim call to prayer" - Barack Hussein Obama

The government of the USA is based on freedom of religion and separation of church and state because the founders knew the dangers of a theocracy from their experience in Europe.

And they failed. Obama failed by making religious statements. All politics is 'religion'. They all ram their views/ways through the people's throat's. There was nothing wrong with the religion in Europe. It was the extremism in religion that was wrong. Just as there is nothing wrong with capitalism, socialism, communism, patriotism, etc.
It goes wrong if it becomes extreme.

That's why I say I don't even think the Christian religion, in other words church doctrine, should be running our country. Whether Obama is a Christian, as he says he is, a Muslim, or an Atheist, it doesn't matter according to the US Constitution.

No but it matters how such a (group of) person(s) rule a country. Of course it matters a lot if that person is moderate or extreme in his/her views. Have you ever considered all political views are doctrine? The source varies but that's it.

If anybody, including Obama and any of you here on this forum, claim to be a Christian, I take your word for it,

Would you still believe it if saw that person pray in a mosque? Acts speak stronger than words. So he should just be honest. Then the voter can decide what to do with that info.

My whole point is people act on their personality/views. And ultimately it doesn't matter how those views were formed. Trough religion, racist parents, etc.

I'm not promoting a theocracy but weeding out Christianity in favor or other believes is just that. (should a Christian pursue a Christian nation?)
Why not ban Christmas signs but not Halloween? Why not change the names of the days because they are all pagan?
Even more why not change the name of the country?
America means "God's Greater Estate of the Heavenly Kingdom"

No Tom this is a discussion you won't win in even a billion years.

/EDIT Not because you are wrong about what's (not) written in the constitution but what's actually done.

Bonus question: When the constitution speaks about religion what is the definition of religion. I'm not from the USA as you know but my country's 'constitution' has freedom of religion also. Nowadays that's read as any imaginable religion. Back then, for example, satanism certainly didn't qualify as a religion. It was mostly a term for a zillion Christian denominations that have cause an endless string of war in Europe's past.

I'm not trying to "win" any discussion. All I said was Obama says he's a Christian, and I take his word for it just like I'd take your word for it if you said you were. Human government and human religion are both corrupt. Politicians say and do some crazy things. Like I said, I disagree with both political parties in the USA. I'm not into Islam either even if some politicians say it's all about peace. I think we should produce our own fuel here and get out of the Muslim countries. If they want to kill each other over differences in their religion, that's their problem. We should use our resources for folks in the USA.

[anna274]

:thumbsup:  sheila, amen.

There are some things to be said for Islam, however, such as their high regard for the books of Moses, their high regard (no, really) for the Gospels and the Jesus of those Gospels.  The basic defect in Islam (in my view) is that it is still stuck in the "eye for an eye" phase of human conduct.

Some interesting comments here Laz.

I agree with your eye for an eye thing as being a problem, but my view of it (view, eyes, bad pun :), that it really starts with "who is Jesus?".  So for me, the basic defect in Islam (as well as many who claim other affiliations, including UR) is that it is still stuck in rejecting Jesus as the Savior, the perfect Sacrifice for sin.  I just don't believe they've as yet been given eyes to see - but will - and then we will all be brothers - when every knee bows and every tongue confesses Jesus is Lord to the glory of the Father.

You are entirely correct, of course.  If I had expressed fully what I had in mind, and it was niggling at me somewhere, I would have said that the eye for an eye outlook kept and keeps Muslims from seeing (eye again :doh:) the value of forgiveness.  Given that, they cannot see the forgiving Savior.  Given that, they cannot enter into the joy of being saved or the freedom of being sons and daughters of the living God.  In God's own time, they will be freed from all that.

Thank you for this very comforting reply, Lazarus.  I especially appreciate "the joy of being saved..." I'm reminded of what an elderly man shared with me immediately following my first AA meeting.  He said "I'm glad that I'm an alcoholic, I know my sin and I went to God and He forgave me.  My family and friends know only my sin, they don't know their sin, so they have no need to go to God...they will never know the joy of being a forgiven sinner."

[marie glen]

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2009/03/dont_say_a_word.html

A U.N. resolution seeks to criminalize opinions that differ with the Islamic faith.
"If there sometimes seems to be something implicitly absolutist or even totalitarian... ..it may result not from a fundamentalist reading of the holy book but from the religion itself. And it is the so-called mainstream Muslims, grouped in the Organization of the Islamic Conference, who are now demanding through the agency of the United Nations that Islam not only be allowed to make absolutist claims but that it also be officially shielded from any criticism of itself..."

AGENDA 21 - http://americanfreedomwatchradio.com/

"..not a Democratic or Republican "plan", it reaches across the aisle.  The Elite will call us names and make up lies to try and divide us. They use doublespeak as code to reinforce their lies. ..the ELITIST plan to control your life demanding you, 'do as I say, not as I do'. You will be required to give up your individual freedom, your personal property and redistribute your wealth. The ELITISTS will use the government to take your money, exercise more power and to control every aspect of your life. Agenda 21 is not a Democratic or Republican "plan", it reaches across the aisle.  The Elite will call us names and make up lies to try and divide us. They use doublespeak as code to reinforce their lies."

" President Kennedy was assassinated on 22nd November, 1963 ten days after he made a speech to Columbia University on Nov 12, 1963 stating, "The high office of the President has been used to foment a plot to destroy the American's freedom and before I leave office, I must inform the citizens of this plight."

"..the deliberate destruction of America"

"The two opposing philosophies:
John Locke - the power is with the individual
Jean-Jacques Rousseau the power belongs to the government"

[marie glen]

This country got started by a bunch of guys fleeing oppression in Europe. They supposedly were Christians, but I've seen information that they were Freemasons too.

Rev 12 "the woman" (Truth/by this verse was Christianity) "was given the two wings of an eagle that she may fly" (sail?) "to a second migration" - They were Christians

But! also others, followed..
which explains:

Then there was the hypocrisy of slavery in a free country.

Human government disgusts me. There won't be a righteous government until Christ comes back, and that won't involve Democrats or Republicans. It will be a monarchy ruled by the word of God until no more rule is necessary because all will be subjected to God, and God will be all in all.

  :iagree: :thumbsup: governments of man = "beasts"

[marie glen]

Bonus question: When the constitution speaks about religion what is the definition of religion. I'm not from the USA as you know but my country's 'constitution' has freedom of religion also. Nowadays that's read as any imaginable religion. Back then, for example, satanism certainly didn't qualify as a religion. It was mostly a term for a zillion Christian denominations that have cause an endless string of war in Europe's past.

:iagree: that I believe this is true

[marie glen]

It cannot be said too often:  Separation of church and state is a doctrine of man, but the Constitution (which now seems to be only an historical document :sigh:) simply states that the Congress shall not pass any law having to do with an ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION, that is to say, the Congress is forbidden to set up a State Church.  However the 501(c)(3) tax exemption, and the government's instruction to the churches as to what it may do and teach to keep the exemption, have set up all the tax-exempt churches as a State Church.

hmmmm  :Chinscratch: I think that is true! :iagree:

[marie glen]

Re:  "My whole point is people act on their personality/views.  And ultimately it doesn't matter how those views were formed."

I agree as per Psalm 118:8 It is better to trust and take refuge in the Lord than to put confidence in man.

or
Man cannot fix man
Only God can fix man

which He did/does through the finished work of Jesus Christ

BTW  Psalm 118:8 is the center verse of the entire Bible.

Yep! you said it Anna!

[JulieTang84]

2Ti 3:1
But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days.

2Ti 3:2
People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,

2Ti 3:3
without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good,

2Ti 3:4
treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God—

2Ti 3:5
having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

2Ti 3:6
They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires,

2Ti 3:7
always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.

I truly believe people have been seeing such days for hundreds of years, needless to say, they fit "today" very well.

Jesus did not care from whence anyone came; his message was always the same....

Luk 9:23
Then he said to them all: "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me.

Jesus knew what was going to happen, though he made provisions in himself for all who trust him completely.

We cannot watch Rome burn and keep our focus on Him, both.  :dsunny:

Just my  :2c:
Love Julie :HeartThrob:

[marie glen]

...I believe it's also true governments of men (beasts) cannot fix the planet.. But I believe they will try.. Most, I believe, will be well intentioned.. Til one day (I believe) the question/accusation will be (gasp!) "Chrsitians, you're against world peace?!?"

.."they will give power to the beast" (world beast) But they forget one thing: corruption (and, imo, also productivity,

and the "ten kings" (socialism) "will devour the harlot" Greek word for "harlot" is "pornos - to sell"

City Babylon, the harlot "by her enchantments of fornication have made the inhabitants of the earth drunk" and "the kings of the earth" (politicians) "have committed fornication with her" (are in bed with her) Rev 17:#3?

(extreme) socialism will devour (extreme) capitalism which had embraced "pornos" to sell, thus seducing/defiling all 7 hills/continents

P.S - "..if they will do this" (crucify me) "in a green leaf, what will they do? in a dry leaf?" Lk 23:#28-31? 

[marie glen]

We cannot watch Rome burn and keep our focus on Him, both.  :dsunny:

Just my  :2c:
Love Julie :HeartThrob:

I can see your point :gsmile: but Jesus also said "watch" and I believe it was Exekiel was told "if you see the sword" (Rev 20:4d?) "coming and warn not.."

And Jesus said "when you see.." and also "when you see.."

"when you see - Jerusalem surrounded by armies"
"when you see - the abomination which desolates set up in Jerusalem" (the 'last' days abomination of desolation, imo, is the 666 system upon man)

P.S - "..if they will do this" (crucify me) "in a green leaf, what will they do? in a dry leaf?" Lk 23:#28-31? 

[sheila]

same spirit..liar and murderer fromthe beginning.........in the guise ofthe serpent..inthe mark on Cain;

on the head-dressof Pharoah,king of Egypt....in the Pharisees andsadducees religious rulers

in Jesus day...in the dragon of the stars.......inthe leviathan inthe nile...in the beastsof the sea

andofthe land..inthe sonofperdition..the man of lawlessness..in Babylonthe harlt  inGog and

  Magog............inthe prince of this world

.

    this samespirit enters in and does it's works which are wicked...................

       NOW...my Kingdom is no part of this world...otherwise...ifit were,my servants would fight

to prevent my arrest by the jews. But NOW my kingdom is fromanother place.............

     andso..as we beholdthe warring and killingof christians.............and allthe nations assemble to

fight against the'camp' ofthe Holy city..........in the earth...be not amazed that......that

   ....as one  reaches into a nest so my handreached for the wealth of the nations..as men

gather abandoned eggs,so I GATHERED ALL COUNTRIES,NOT ONE FLAPPED A WING

OR OPENED IT'S MOUTH TO CHURP..........

    If the world hates you remember it hated me first...if you beloonged to the world it would love

you. They will treat you this way becauseof my name..for they do not know the one who sentme

    they will put you out of the synagogues[what is accepteptable tothem as worship of the deity]

   in fact...A TIME IS COMING WHEN ANYONE WHO KILL WILL THINK HE IS OFFERING A SERVICE TO GOD

     They willdosuch things because they have notknown the Father or me..........

   be notamazed at their   hypocrisy..theirblindness. nor the vehemence intheir hearts.........

for they are deceived andblind[Rev 20;7] and know NOT wht they do...whenthey put good

for evilandevilfor g

• od
  
           
  
  
    I HAVE TOLD YOU THIS SO WHEN THE TIME COMES YOU WILL REMEMBER THAT I WARNED YOU

[sheila]

anddo not be perplexed...it is All about His name...............and dominion and rulership...........

....and a time whenye shall be hated by all men........

          you must discernthe time....  Matt 26;18my appointedtime is near

          My Father.....if itis possible may this cup be takenfromme.........He returnedunto His disciples

   andfound them asleep..and said...'could you not keep watch with me for one hour?

          HE WENT AWY A SECOUND TIME...May your will be done........

   when He cameback he again foundd them sleeping..SO HE LEFT THEM AND WENT AWY

  ONCE MORE AND PRAYED THE THIRD TIME[3 days body of Christ in grave]

    THEN HE RETURNED................Look! the Hour is near...andthe Son of Man[Rev 12]

  is betrayed into the hands ofsinners.................

     RISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    WE are BAPTIZED INTO HIS DEATH............

[sheila]

 Genesis 8;8 dove sentforth 3 times fromthe Ark[just as inthe days of Noah]

[JulieTang84]

We cannot watch Rome burn and keep our focus on Him, both.  :dsunny:

Just my  :2c:
Love Julie :HeartThrob:

I can see your point :gsmile: but Jesus also said "watch" and I believe it was Exekiel was told "if you see the sword" (Rev 20:4d?) "coming and warn not.."

And Jesus said "when you see.." and also "when you see.."

"when you see - Jerusalem surrounded by armies"
"when you see - the abomination which desolates set up in Jerusalem" (the 'last' days abomination of desolation, imo, is the 666 system upon man)

P.S - "..if they will do this" (crucify me) "in a green leaf, what will they do? in a dry leaf?" Lk 23:#28-31?

Well said Marie. Point taken  :HeartThrob:

Love Julie

[Tom]

I have no faith in human government that slaves for mammon, and I have no faith in religion that says man's free will saves himself. I have faith in the living God who changed the worst of sinners into our apostle of the nations. That was a manifestation of the overwhelming power of God's love. Regardless of what somebody has said or done, God's love changes lives, and God's love will eventually overcome all evil in the universe and be all in all.

[ded2daworld]

Amen brother - preach it! :thumbsup:

[Tom]

Tom

I found this link from Pat Condell which is the same sort of theme that was in the link I tried to send you yesterday.   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1PnMWCOeH4

Also, This was in the news today


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world/middle_east/

The very thing that Pat is talking about.

Jock.

I've watched a few YouTube videos by this guy, and he has nothing good to say about God or scripture.

[lomarah]

anddo not be perplexed...it is All about His name...............and dominion and rulership...........

....and a time whenye shall be hated by all men........

          you must discernthe time....  Matt 26;18my appointedtime is near

          My Father.....if itis possible may this cup be takenfromme.........He returnedunto His disciples

   andfound them asleep..and said...'could you not keep watch with me for one hour?

          HE WENT AWY A SECOUND TIME...May your will be done........

   when He cameback he again foundd them sleeping..SO HE LEFT THEM AND WENT AWY

  ONCE MORE AND PRAYED THE THIRD TIME[3 days body of Christ in grave]

    THEN HE RETURNED................Look! the Hour is near...andthe Son of Man[Rev 12]

  is betrayed into the hands ofsinners.................

     RISE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    WE are BAPTIZED INTO HIS DEATH............

Wow! Gotta meditate on this some more. Wow though. Awesome.

[Tom]

The government of the USA is based on freedom of religion and separation of church and state...

It cannot be said too often:  Separation of church and state is a doctrine of man, but the Constitution (which now seems to be only an historical document :sigh:) simply states that the Congress shall not pass any law having to do with an ESTABLISHMENT OF RELIGION, that is to say, the Congress is forbidden to set up a State Church.  However the 501(c)(3) tax exemption, and the government's instruction to the churches as to what it may do and teach to keep the exemption, have set up all the tax-exempt churches as a State Church.

I hear ya, bro. Christianity is obviously the state religion. Officials are sworn in with a Christian bible, and "God" is all over government property even though atheists are trying to get rid of it.