Spirit of God/Holy Spirit

[micah7:9]

I hope this is not taken as a continuing of the thread about the "trinity" that I feel has run it's course.
This endeavor is to find, in the Bible, where the Spirit of God/Holy Spirit stands in the whole of what began(as far as where the Book begins) in what the Lord's plan and purpose is/was/will be, and where and how the Spirit/Holy Spirit has a place.

What does "the Bible say or speak" of God's Spirit as being an entity, say as a person (like a individual), or as a separate unique unit?
And, what does "the Bible say" about the Holy Spirit being a person or a separate entity
that works by it's own will, to accomplish whatever it does?
As well, what does "the Bible say" about the Spirit of God or Holy Spirit having a voice in the whole of creation?

[ded2daworld]

How about in Genesis during creation week - "In the beginning God" and "the spirit of God was hovering over the waters"
This is just my opinion. God is omnipresent so there is no place that he is not. When people portray God in a specific place, they use the term the "spirit of God" :Chinscratch:

[micah7:9]

For me, there is NO place He is not.

I don't want to send by post off thread on post #3 but you said, "during creation week-" just what do you mean by "creation week?"
Should you desire to start another thread for your response, it's fine with me. :dsunny:

[ded2daworld]

By creation week I mean the literal 6 day work of creation and the seventh day of rest which our calendar is based on and which was written in stone by the finger of God for Moses and the people of Israel and Jesus saying, "In the beginning God made them male and female" :Peace2:

[micah7:9]

By creation week I mean the literal 6 day work of creation and the seventh day of rest which our calendar is based on and which was written in stone by the finger of God for Moses and the people of Israel and Jesus saying, "In the beginning God made them male and female" :Peace2:

Well then my friend and brother in Christ we are not in agreement. I do not accept that calendar and I doubt the publishing of such was done by a "finger" and certainly not  "the" finger."  :Peace2:

[ded2daworld]

You may disagree with what the bible says all you like. It's OK by me. :Peace2:

[micah7:9]

You may disagree with what the bible says all you like. It's OK by me. :Peace2:

I try very hard not to disagree with the Bible at all.
So where does the Bible says that there was a creation week or are you assuming that because today it is understood what a week is, and it must certainly be the same In the beginning....?

Why Ded within the questions I posted would you throw in words like "creation week" do you think that by chapter 2 of Genesis that a Firestone Tire calender came in the mail and was hung up on the wall and day 1-7 were just x'ed off?
I mean "You may disagree with what the bible says all you like. It's OK by me. " Just where is my disagreement with the Bible? Then again maybe you should start a thread on "creation week?"

[Wayfaring Stranger]

How about in Genesis during creation week - "In the beginning God" and "the spirit of God was hovering over the waters"
This is just my opinion. God is omnipresent so there is no place that he is not. When people portray God in a specific place, they use the term the "spirit of God" :Chinscratch:

I agree with this sentiment.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;

2 this one was in the beginning with God;

3 all things through him did happen, and without him happened not even one thing that hath happened.

4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men,

5 and the light in the darkness did shine, and the darkness did not perceive it.

6 There came a man -- having been sent from God -- whose name [is] John,

7 this one came for testimony, that he might testify about the Light, that all might believe through him;

8 that one was not the Light, but -- that he might testify about the Light.

9 He was the true Light, which doth enlighten every man, coming to the world;

10 in the world he was, and the world through him was made, and the world did not know him:

11 to his own things he came, and his own people did not receive him;

12 but as many as did receive him to them he gave authority to become sons of God -- to those believing in his name,

13 who -- not of blood nor of a will of flesh, nor of a will of man but -- of God were begotten.

14 And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth.

15 John doth testify concerning him, and hath cried, saying, `This was he of whom I said, He who after me is coming, hath come before me, for he was before me;'

16 and out of his fulness did we all receive, and grace over-against grace;

17 for the law through Moses was given, the grace and the truth through Jesus Christ did come;

18 God no one hath ever seen; the only begotten Son, who is on the bosom of the Father -- he did declare.

-John 1:1-18

Jesus Christ is the God of the Old Testament.  Christ was present at the creation, Christ was there throughout the entire Old Testament period.  No man has EVER seen the face of the Father, God speaks to us through His only begotten Son, Christ Jesus.  The Comforter whom Christ speaks of is really Himself in Spirit.  He was no longer among them in the FLESH, the parakletos (the Advocate, the Comforter, the Counselor), Jesus Christ in His risen Spirit form is the Holy Spirit of God.

[Wayfaring Stranger]

You may disagree with what the bible says all you like. It's OK by me. :Peace2:

I try very hard not to disagree with the Bible at all.
So where does the Bible says that there was a creation week or are you assuming that because today it is understood what a week is, and it must certainly be the same In the beginning....?

Why Ded within the questions I posted would you throw in words like "creation week" do you think that by chapter 2 of Genesis that a Firestone Tire calender came in the mail and was hung up on the wall and day 1-7 were just x'ed off?
I mean "You may disagree with what the bible says all you like. It's OK by me. " Just where is my disagreement with the Bible? Then again maybe you should start a thread on "creation week?"

I was an atheist formerly before the Lord called me back into His fold and even before then when I was a "believer" I felt strongly that evolution was the answer.  When I was Catholic I believed in Theistic evolution and as an atheist I believed in Darwinism.  However when I was called back I feel strongly that God put it on my heart that the account of Genesis is what took place like it is written.  However this topic really needs it's own thread.

[Lazarus Short]

I have no problem with a literal 24/7 creation week ~6,000 years ago.  I also have no problem with a longer span of creation of non-24 hour "days." 

"In the beginning..." can also be rendered "By periods..." or "By headships..."

Is there really any reason to use "day" over "age" in Genesis 1, or is it tradition?

[micah7:9]

The "creation week" as you may want to call it began Gen.1:3 it was not in the beginning, which is the "firstfruits" and as Wayfaring Stranger elluded to, is Jesus Christ. (Col.1: 16,17) who is the firstfruits  ICor.15:23.
It was Jesus who spoke Gen 1:3  And God said, Let there be light:  Joh 5:37  `And the Father who sent me Himself hath testified concerning me; ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor His appearance have ye seen;

And as for me, science has proven that the earth is much older that 6,000 years. And Laz is correct "Is there really any reason to use "day" over "age" in Genesis 1, or is it tradition?" I favor the later.

That said, The OP....I hope this is not taken as a continuing of the thread about the "trinity" that I feel has run it's course.
This endeavor is to find, in the Bible, where the Spirit of God/Holy Spirit stands in the whole of what began(as far as where the Book begins) in what the Lord's plan and purpose is/was/will be, and where and how the Spirit/Holy Spirit has a place.

What does "the Bible say or speak" of God's Spirit as being an entity, say as a person (like a individual), or as a separate unique unit?
And, what does "the Bible say" about the Holy Spirit being a person or a separate entity
that works by it's own will, to accomplish whatever it does?
As well, what does "the Bible say" about the Spirit of God or Holy Spirit having a voice in the whole of creation?

[mplsfitter539]

I have no problem with a literal 24/7 creation week ~6,000 years ago.  I also have no problem with a longer span of creation of non-24 hour "days." 

"In the beginning..." can also be rendered "By periods..." or "By headships..."

Is there really any reason to use "day" over "age" in Genesis 1, or is it tradition?

I have to say that IMO periods and headships do a much better job of keep time than literal 24 hour days.

[ded2daworld]

I believe God knew people would believe long ages, simply because it's "accepted"
I also believe that is why God was clear saying "there was evening and there was morning, the first day" and repeating it for all six days. No one thinks "HMMM, i wonder if Jonah was in the belly of the big fish for 3 days or 3 thousand years.
There is only one reason to doubt they were actual approx. 24 hour days and that is the scientists trying to make evolution "fit" since it requires an extremely long period of time - like forever since it's scientifically impossible.
All of man's reckoning of time and evolution is not based on science at all but speculation.
True science is so creation and evolution and the age of the earth are outside the realm of science. :Peace2:

[lastpost]

This does not answer the question but might add something.

John 14

18 I will not leave you comfortless (orphanos bereft of instruction/orphaned): I will come to you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

I believe that as an early follower of Jesus Christ walked around the countryside, over this hill, over that hill, then into a village, and there among the people they would see a stranger, but that stranger would have a flame over his or her head and nobody except followers of Jesus could see that flame - and they would know, of course, that that stranger was no stranger but a friend made "alive" in a way nobody expected.

The Holy Spirit is very powerful and reveals, comforts, instructs or brings to remembrance, but I believe the Holy Spirit is not confined to the recorded forms of manifestation at all. Personally, I believe that if a person has perfect faith in Jesus Christ Himself and can abandon everything and rely solely on Jesus, then the Holy Spirit works in a way that was "unknown" and yet is "restricted" - if I may use that word about a Power without restriction - by lack of faith in Christ and His Power.

[micah7:9]

I believe God knew people would believe long ages, simply because it's "accepted"
I also believe that is why God was clear saying "there was evening and there was morning, the first day" and repeating it for all six days. No one thinks "HMMM, i wonder if Jonah was in the belly of the big fish for 3 days or 3 thousand years.
There is only one reason to doubt they were actual approx. 24 hour days and that is the scientists trying to make evolution "fit" since it requires an extremely long period of time - like forever since it's scientifically impossible.
All of man's reckoning of time and evolution is not based on science at all but speculation.
True science is so creation and evolution and the age of the earth are outside the realm of science. :Peace2:

"There is only one reason to doubt they were actual approx. 24 hour days  and that is the scientists trying to make evolution "fit" since it requires an extremely long period of time - like forever since it's scientifically impossible." (Ded)

The only I reason that I would "doubt" it is because Jesus said it ain't so.

Joh 11:9  Jesus answered, `Are there not twelve hours in the day? if any one may walk in the day, he doth not stumble, because the light of this world he doth see;
Joh 11:10  and if any one may walk in the night, he stumbleth, because the light is not in him.'

[micah7:9]

This does not answer the question but might add something.

John 14

18 I will not leave you comfortless (orphanos bereft of instruction/orphaned): I will come to you.

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

I believe that as an early follower of Jesus Christ walked around the countryside, over this hill, over that hill, then into a village, and there among the people they would see a stranger, but that stranger would have a flame over his or her head and nobody except followers of Jesus could see that flame - and they would know, of course, that that stranger was no stranger but a friend made "alive" in a way nobody expected.

The Holy Spirit is very powerful and reveals, comforts, instructs or brings to remembrance, but I believe the Holy Spirit is not confined to the recorded forms of manifestation at all. Personally, I believe that if a person has perfect faith in Jesus Christ Himself and can abandon everything and rely solely on Jesus, then the Holy Spirit works in a way that was "unknown" and yet is "restricted" - if I may use that word about a Power without restriction - by lack of faith in Christ and His Power.

I would agree. The only difference is, I would use the word "ordered" rather than "restricted" but that's just me. :dsunny:

[ded2daworld]

Micah said,
"Joh 11:9  Jesus answered, `Are there not twelve hours in the day? if any one may walk in the day, he doth not stumble, because the light of this world he doth see;
Joh 11:10  and if any one may walk in the night, he stumbleth, because the light is not in him.'"

Yes 12 hours in a day and 12 hours in a night. evening and morning one day. :Peace2:
...unless you think Jesus thought the earth only took 12 hours for a full rotation.

[micah7:9]

Micah said,
"Joh 11:9  Jesus answered, `Are there not twelve hours in the day? if any one may walk in the day, he doth not stumble, because the light of this world he doth see;
Joh 11:10  and if any one may walk in the night, he stumbleth, because the light is not in him.'"

Yes 12 hours in a day and 12 hours in a night. evening and morning one day. :Peace2:
...unless you think Jesus thought the earth only took 12 hours for a full rotation.

What? :sigh:
And by the way, Micah did not say, I believe that was Jesus who said...  " Jesus answered, `Are there not twelve hours in the day? if any one may walk in the day, he doth not stumble, because the light of this world he doth see;
Joh 11:10  and if any one may walk in the night, he stumbleth, because the light is not in him.'"

Where you getting that? As far as 12 hours in a day and 12 hours in a night, we are are talking about the day, not the night. Remember the darkness was chaos, and work is done in the day "yom-age" in the heat. I really like the idea of science proving God. In fact I love it. Has nothing to do with evoliution and making something "fit." Should you hold to the concept of 24 hours in a day and that is your limit, there is a lot of "splainin' " to do.

[mplsfitter539]

2 Peter 3
8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

IMO this verse shows that time is relative. He may be saying a day but what does a day represent? Anything between one day and a thousand years? Or more?

[ded2daworld]

I give up. Why a christian would want to make the scripture different than what it plainly says is beyond me. And "evening, morning, the first day...etc" is even more plain than Jonah being in the belly of the whale for three days. No one ever says, "I wonder if the Lord meant to say 3,000 years or maybe being in the belly of the whale was symbolic of three ages.
The only reason people quibble over genesis one is they have been led to believe the pseudo scientific research which speculates long ages of time. As a former science teacher, I know and many scientist know that speculative science (that which cannot be tested, observed and repeated is just that - speculation.
There is a good reason NO christian 200 years ago believed the earth was more than 6,000 years, it's because they didn't try to "blend" scripture with science though scripture is 100% scientifically accurate and disagreement with scripture is speculation and cannot be proven even though many scientist talk as if its a proven fact.
The Lord may have many things to say to me but one of them won't be, "Why didn't you believe the scripture I gave you?" because  I use the "Island man" test.
If a person grew up on a deserted Island with no outside influences but could read. Given a bible, what would he take it to me on any particular verse? :Chinscratch:

[micah7:9]

Does anyone believe that the OT is just literal stories without spiritual revelation?

Since this thread has jumped to the "creation week." And that some believe in a 6 day creation how shall we restart? :HeartThrob: :dsunny:

Just what is a "day-yom (be hot; a day (as the warm hours)-age? Jesus said that a "day" was 12 hours, so we are not talking of Night H3915 properly a twist (away of the light), that is, night; figuratively adversity: - ([mid-]) night (season).
Darkness H2822 the dark; hence (literally) darkness; figuratively misery, destruction, death, ignorance, sorrow, wickedness: - dark (-ness), night, obscurity.

[ded2daworld]

They are true stories with spiritual signifigance... When you KNOW Jesus knew there were 24 hours in a day and ignore the obvious reference of day being short for daylight...well  play all you want, make scriptures say whatever you want, interpret so it fits in with what you believe, say scripture doesn't mean what it says. say God meant to say something else other than what he said, have fun! :thumbsup:

[micah7:9]

" When you KNOW Jesus knew there were 24 hours in a day and ignore the obvious ..."

I don't KNOW any such thing, Jesus said, 12 hours in a day, and should Jesus have that knowledge of 24 hours in a day,  He did not use it to explain what He was speaking of. And for you, yes 24 hours in a day is obvious.  :Peace2:

Here is a question. For what reason would God in the beginning, create with the obvious logic of a 24 hour day that logical carnal man would find obvious?  As for what I have read in the Bible God has never worked in the obvious of man's carnal thoughts. I have found nothing that He has done to be obvious, and should it be so obvious to man, why the need for revelation by the Spirit?
All I am offering is that since man and his theology just puts a seal of approval on something, don't just make it so.
And as for science, for me all science proves is the Greatness of the Lord God I believe in. I do not believe in evolution or Darwinism. :dsunny:

[dajomaco]

IMO
I lean more toward the Idea that we do not know unless the Spirit
reveal it to us how long a day is.

There were two days that past before the Sun and the Moon where created.

Ded how could you tell how long the first day was if there was no such thing as a Sun.   

[ded2daworld]

Because the bible says "there was evening and there was morning, the first day" and when God said, "let there be light," it wasn't necessary for the sun to be in place for light to be shining on the earth until the fourth day when the sun, moon and stars were created.
The bible says when there are a new heavens and earth, there will not be a sun, for all will be lit by the glory of God himself. :dsunny: