The Rapture and the end of this age

[Graph1159]

Hi everyone,
I'm not looking to start a debate unless the moderators think it would be beneficial. Rather, I'm curious about whether the majority of believers in UR lean toward a particular stance regarding the rapture and tribulation. From my observation, there seems to be a 50/50 split these days between post-tribulationalism and pre-tribulationalism among teachers of eternal torment, with preterism a minority.

Thank you for your vote,
Samuel

[Lazarus Short]

I can't say that I'm comfortable with any of those posted choices... :dunno2:

[Graph1159]

I can't say that I'm comfortable with any of those posted choices... :dunno2:

Feel free to reply with another choice if you find it more suitable.

[Molly]

Ok, who degraded my vote?

  :gsad:

[jabcat]

Ok, who degraded my vote?

  :gsad:

What happened Molly?

[Molly]

Ok, who degraded my vote?

  :gsad:

What happened Molly?

I was the only vote so it was  100 percent in agreement with me.

And, then someone else voted.   So now only 50 percent agrees with me.

:laughing7:

[jabcat]

oh ok   :talkangry:

[redhotmagma]

I do not believe in a rapture, nor in a tribulation that looks anything like what the mainstream preaches.  I read all the Left Behind books, that was the stance of the group I grew up in, anything else was heretical.  Then I decided to look for myself what the Bible says.  And now I don't believe in that man made doctrine any more. 

For me Jesus is the lens through which I read the Bible as he is the exact imprint of the Father.  I personally don't see any literal fireballs/hailstones coming down from heaven to punish those evil doers.   :2c:

[ded2daworld]

This is a complicated doctrinal issue which is devisive in that no one knows God's plan with 100% certainty. If one bases one's beliefs on the Bible and the Bible isn't clear on a subject (despite what some authors and preachers say on the subject) and it doesn't affect our lives(except for the "always live your life as if the Lord could return at any second" then what does it matter what someone believes about it?
Do we feel better if more people agree with us? The majority of believers are ECT but that doesn't make that doctrine right or wrong. The reason we emphasize UR is because an ECT belief distorts what one believes about Love, about God, about other people. :Peace2:

[marie glen]

sorry, I can't resist.. i like to think i follow only scripture on this.. "immediately after the tribulation of those days.. will see the Son of man coming on the clouds.. with a trumpet blast"(the 7th?/"last"i.e. later than 7th?)"will send out His angels to gather His elect from the four winds of the earth.." - "He comes with angels and with fire.." (as the bowls come down, the saints go up, 1st resurrection) and His feet touch down upon Mt of Olives-Zech 14:4.

The reason we emphasize UR is because an ECT belief distorts what one believes about Love, about God, about other people. :Peace2:

In a nutshell Ded! No, not calling you a nut! :laughing7:

Ok, who degraded my vote?

  :gsad:

What happened Molly?

I was the only vote so it was  100 percent in agreement with me.

And, then someone else voted.   So now only 50 percent agrees with me.

:laughing7:

That was funny Molly! :LH:

[micah7:9]

I do not believe in a rapture, nor in a tribulation that looks anything like what the mainstream preaches.  I read all the Left Behind books, that was the stance of the group I grew up in, anything else was heretical.  Then I decided to look for myself what the Bible says.  And now I don't believe in that man made doctrine any more. 

For me Jesus is the lens through which I read the Bible as he is the exact imprint of the Father.  I personally don't see any literal fireballs/hailstones coming down from heaven to punish those evil doers.   :2c:

:thumbsup:

[dajomaco]

Now concerning that day and hour no one knows—neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son[q] —except the Father only. 37 As the days of Noah were, so the coming of the Son of Man will be. 38 For in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day Noah boarded the ark.

Jesus said the angels would not know.
The marriage and giving in marriage is very despicable to God because the Nephilim or sons of god
were marrying the Daughters of man. I think this is going to be a sign that only those with eyes that that see will notice.
IMO

When mankind began to multiply on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of mankind were beautiful, and they took any they chose as wives[a] for themselves. 3 And the LORD said, "My Spirit will not remain with[c] mankind forever, because they are corrupt.[d] Their days will be 120 years." 4 The Nephilim[e] were on the earth both in those days and afterward, when the sons of God came to the daughters of mankind, who bore children to them. They were the powerful men of old, the famous men.

[Lazarus Short]

I can't say that I'm comfortable with any of those posted choices... :dunno2:

Feel free to reply with another choice if you find it more suitable.

OK, I have gotten to the point where I have no use for synthetic theories like the secret rapture - oh just think, if too few people qualified for rapture, no one would even notice!  People disappear all the time, and at what point do we begin to suspect a secret rapture?  IMO, It's just absurd, especially in view of what the Bible has to say on the subject, something like "every eye shall see." 

As for the tribulation, I've been seeing horrible things happening in the world around me all my life, and a look at history and/or the Biblical record paints the same picture.  Ever since Adam and Eve got kicked out of the garden, it's been violence, murder, natural disaster, war, plague and starvation.  Did I miss anything?  God is waiting for something before He steps in and runs the curtain down on history-as-we-know-it.  I believe that He is waiting for all the souls that are going to be born before human extinction, to be born.  I believe that He will act at the last possible moment, for the sake of the elect, and to show the whole created universe the inevitable result of living apart from His plan.  The violence, war and death are only going to escalate until this happens.  However, don't lose heart, because we live in the Time of the Toes, and the Rock Cut Out Without Hands is already set to crush the succession of human empires.  Pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib - I have no use for any of it.  You'd have to convince me first that we're not already in it, and for quite a few years at that.

[micah7:9]

I can't say that I'm comfortable with any of those posted choices... :dunno2:

Feel free to reply with another choice if you find it more suitable.

OK, I have gotten to the point where I have no use for synthetic theories like the secret rapture - oh just think, if too few people qualified for rapture, no one would even notice!  People disappear all the time, and at what point do we begin to suspect a secret rapture?  IMO, It's just absurd, especially in view of what the Bible has to say on the subject, something like "every eye shall see." 

As for the tribulation, I've been seeing horrible things happening in the world around me all my life, and a look at history and/or the Biblical record paints the same picture.  Ever since Adam and Eve got kicked out of the garden, it's been violence, murder, natural disaster, war, plague and starvation.  Did I miss anything?  God is waiting for something before He steps in and runs the curtain down on history-as-we-know-it.  I believe that He is waiting for all the souls that are going to be born before human extinction, to be born.  I believe that He will act at the last possible moment, for the sake of the elect, and to show the whole created universe the inevitable result of living apart from His plan.  The violence, war and death are only going to escalate until this happens.  However, don't lose heart, because we live in the Time of the Toes, and the Rock Cut Out Without Hands is already set to crush the succession of human empires.  Pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib - I have no use for any of it.  You'd have to convince me first that we're not already in it, and for quite a few years at that.

:thumbsup: :dsunny:

[jbertonbounds]

I do not believe in a rapture, nor in a tribulation that looks anything like what the mainstream preaches.  I read all the Left Behind books, that was the stance of the group I grew up in, anything else was heretical.  Then I decided to look for myself what the Bible says.  And now I don't believe in that man made doctrine any more. 

For me Jesus is the lens through which I read the Bible as he is the exact imprint of the Father.  I personally don't see any literal fireballs/hailstones coming down from heaven to punish those evil doers.   :2c:

I sorta agree with this viewpoint, but I really haven't studied eschatology enough to form an opinion. :2c:

[dajomaco]

I have a polyester theory  (although my last name is Cotton)
I agree that the unregenerate character of man has and  will be the same from the beginning.
I have no idea what the character of person born of a woman impregnated by a Nephilim is.
I know God did not like it .
Why does the Bible mention  nine times that the end days will be like time the Nephilim,
half breeds were on the earth.

[Lazarus Short]

I have a polyester theory  (although my last name is Cotton)
I agree that the unregenerate character of man has and  will be the same from the beginning.
I have no idea what the character of person born of a woman impregnated by a Nephilim is.
I know God did not like it .
Why does the Bible mention  nine times that the end days will be like time the Nephilim,
half breeds were on the earth.

We have half-breeds running around everywhere these days, plus genetic experimentation, plus the transhumanism movement, plus the eugenics movement, etc.  The end results may not be pretty...

[rosered]

I have a polyester theory  (although my last name is Cotton)
I agree that the unregenerate character of man has and  will be the same from the beginning.
I have no idea what the character of person born of a woman impregnated by a Nephilim is.
I know God did not like it .
Why does the Bible mention  nine times that the end days will be like time the Nephilim,
half breeds were on the earth.

We have half-breeds running around everywhere these days, plus genetic experimentation, plus the transhumanism movement, plus the eugenics movement, etc.  The end results may not be pretty...

Yes , they are called bastards   and not sons  :sigh:    wild ones




Hbr 12:7   If ye endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chastens not? 
But if ye be without chastisement, where of all are partakers, then are you  are  bastards, and not sons.Strong's G3541 - nothos
1) illegitimate, bastard

2) one born, not in lawful wedlock, but of a concubine or female slave


  :sigh:

[dajomaco]

I don't know weather God gave the son's of God a different genetic code that Adam and Eve
Or the Nephilim had no genetic code and some how corrupted not only the off spring of woman
but also other creatures.

[jabcat]

Relevant?  Maybe..

humans will soon be able to upload their minds to a computer, computers nearing super-intelligence

"we'll be able to expand the scope of our intelligence a billion-fold"


http://news.yahoo.com/singularity-near-mind-uploading-2045-222426560.html

[Molly]

Right.  And, then we can be like God.  Whoops where have I heard that before?

It must be the end of days.

I see my side is winning again--60 percent for post trib rapture.

But that's prolly because most aren't voting.

[Lazarus Short]

But that's prolly because most aren't voting.

I didn't vote.

[marie glen]

I do not believe in a rapture, nor in a tribulation that looks anything like what the mainstream preaches.  I read all the Left Behind books, that was the stance of the group I grew up in, anything else was heretical.  Then I decided to look for myself what the Bible says.  And now I don't believe in that man made doctrine any more. 

For me Jesus is the lens through which I read the Bible as he is the exact imprint of the Father.  I personally don't see any literal fireballs/hailstones coming down from heaven to punish those evil doers.   :2c:

I can't even READ the left behind books.. and as far as hail.. I believe that to be debris which is a good reason for any forewarned to come out of the $iTies.. places of darkness to begin with.. and the fire? Even tho it says Jesus comes with fire (and with angels) i do believe the fire to be manmade (rev 13:13 & 6:12-17-altho this last is a description which is the braiding of what it is when 1st released and what it is when fully progressed at the 'end' of man's empire(s) if ppl get caught in the debris it won't be because i refused to try to get the word out... :girlheart:

yes, since the prophecies of Messiah were literally fulfilled, so do I believe such as "for it will come upon all, who dwell on the face of the earth" Lk 21:35,25 and also "and so shall we meet the Lord in the air at His coming" and "his feet touch down upon mt of Olives" (1thes 4 & zech 14:4) also to be literal, as well as the nations streaming to Jerusalem as all the prophets prophesied.

But as far as the left behind scenario.. it's not in the scriptures, imho... not at all.. It's amazing to me its pull/effect.. I liken it to the pull and mesmerism of et, and also of the famous theory of evolution.. all foolishness yet so very strong!! Oiye!! (oops, hope I don't offend anyone.. sorry, please forgive :HeartThrob: ..)

P.s - i know it's portrayed sometimes as fireballs, but it's not in the verses.. mushrooms! tho it doesn't say mushrooms either.. :smile:

[rosered]

 

   for me its always been an inwards working   , by the power of Gods Spirit

I am going to use this  set of scriptures   to try and explain what is happing  , and NO  , I never thought like this before    the Lord come   to dwell in me .

IF   the Kingdom of God does not come with observation , but the Kingdom of God is within you

What than does it come by and with and to whom ?    By His power   in  the Spirit breath and  whom the Father seeks to worship Him in Spirit and Truth   in those deep dark hearts    and chooses to  Lighten up !

If you can see Lightning as a  revelation of pure thought  , a flash of knowing and understanding somthing that was hidden from you before    , and the devil that was cast out of heaven ,  heaven  is your mind /heart        that now Has the Mind of Christ = name written in Heaven  , your  new mind is His  name is   now owning  it .

And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 


Luk 10:18   And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 


Luk 10:19   Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 
[  now we see that power over death /carnal mind , that is now in your body , but you now have the mind of Christ  , obedience to the will of God the Father
not hurt by the second death ,,,,   you body of death is already as good as dead  by Faith in Jesus Christ


Luk 10:20   Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.   

Can God make this  that simple a child can understand it ?   you are now a child/babe  of God   born again and a son  , hidden   man of the heart   towards God , name Jesus Christ /mind of Christ


Luk 10:21 ¶ In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. 


Luk 10:22  All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and [he] to whom the Son will reveal [him]. 

  the thundering and lightnings and rumblings are Gods Voice , the flashes of Lightning  are the revealing truths  , Gods Word says so  ,


Job 40:9 Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him?

Psa 77:18 The voice of thy thunder [was] in the heaven: the lightnings lightened the world: the earth trembled and shook.

Psa 104:7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.


Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps


  our imaginary   thinks all matter of things  ,

but the Spiritual truth is   a realm of reality  if its own

[redhotmagma]

   for me its always been an inwards working   , by the power of Gods Spirit

I am going to use this  set of scriptures   to try and explain what is happing  , and NO  , I never thought like this before    the Lord come   to dwell in me .

IF   the Kingdom of God does not come with observation , but the Kingdom of God is within you

What than does it come by and with and to whom ?    By His power   in  the Spirit breath and  whom the Father seeks to worship Him in Spirit and Truth   in those deep dark hearts    and chooses to  Lighten up !

If you can see Lightning as a  revelation of pure thought  , a flash of knowing and understanding somthing that was hidden from you before    , and the devil that was cast out of heaven ,  heaven  is your mind /heart        that now Has the Mind of Christ = name written in Heaven  , your  new mind is His  name is   now owning  it .

And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 


Luk 10:18   And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 


Luk 10:19   Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 
[  now we see that power over death /carnal mind , that is now in your body , but you now have the mind of Christ  , obedience to the will of God the Father
not hurt by the second death ,,,,   you body of death is already as good as dead  by Faith in Jesus Christ


Luk 10:20   Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.   

Can God make this  that simple a child can understand it ?   you are now a child/babe  of God   born again and a son  , hidden   man of the heart   towards God , name Jesus Christ /mind of Christ


Luk 10:21  In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. 


Luk 10:22  All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and [he] to whom the Son will reveal [him]. 

  the thundering and lightnings and rumblings are Gods Voice , the flashes of Lightning  are the revealing truths  , Gods Word says so  ,


Job 40:9 Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him?

Psa 77:18 The voice of thy thunder [was] in the heaven: the lightnings lightened the world: the earth trembled and shook.

Psa 104:7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.


Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps


  our imaginary   thinks all matter of things  ,

but the Spiritual truth is   a realm of reality  if its own

:thumbsup: