Tentmaker Forum

Hi everyone,
I'm not looking to start a debate unless the moderators think it would be beneficial. Rather, I'm curious about whether the majority of believers in UR lean toward a particular stance regarding the rapture and tribulation. From my observation, there seems to be a 50/50 split these days between post-tribulationalism and pre-tribulationalism among teachers of eternal torment, with preterism a minority.

Thank you for your vote,
Samuel

I can't say that I'm comfortable with any of those posted choices... :dunno2:

Quote from: Lazarus Short on June 18, 2013, 02:08:31 AM
I can't say that I'm comfortable with any of those posted choices... :dunno2:

Feel free to reply with another choice if you find it more suitable.

Ok, who degraded my vote?

  :gsad:

Quote from: Molly on June 18, 2013, 03:47:24 AM
Ok, who degraded my vote?

  :gsad:

What happened Molly?

Quote from: jabcat on June 18, 2013, 04:07:37 AM

Quote from: Molly on June 18, 2013, 03:47:24 AM
Ok, who degraded my vote?

  :gsad:

What happened Molly?

I was the only vote so it was  100 percent in agreement with me.

And, then someone else voted.   So now only 50 percent agrees with me.

:laughing7:

oh ok   :talkangry:

I do not believe in a rapture, nor in a tribulation that looks anything like what the mainstream preaches.  I read all the Left Behind books, that was the stance of the group I grew up in, anything else was heretical.  Then I decided to look for myself what the Bible says.  And now I don't believe in that man made doctrine any more. 

For me Jesus is the lens through which I read the Bible as he is the exact imprint of the Father.  I personally don't see any literal fireballs/hailstones coming down from heaven to punish those evil doers.   :2c:

This is a complicated doctrinal issue which is devisive in that no one knows God's plan with 100% certainty. If one bases one's beliefs on the Bible and the Bible isn't clear on a subject (despite what some authors and preachers say on the subject) and it doesn't affect our lives(except for the "always live your life as if the Lord could return at any second" then what does it matter what someone believes about it?
Do we feel better if more people agree with us? The majority of believers are ECT but that doesn't make that doctrine right or wrong. The reason we emphasize UR is because an ECT belief distorts what one believes about Love, about God, about other people. :Peace2:

sorry, I can't resist.. i like to think i follow only scripture on this.. "immediately after the tribulation of those days.. will see the Son of man coming on the clouds.. with a trumpet blast"(the 7th?/"last"i.e. later than 7th?)"will send out His angels to gather His elect from the four winds of the earth.." - "He comes with angels and with fire.." (as the bowls come down, the saints go up, 1st resurrection) and His feet touch down upon Mt of Olives-Zech 14:4.

Quote from: ded2daworld on June 18, 2013, 04:08:55 PM
The reason we emphasize UR is because an ECT belief distorts what one believes about Love, about God, about other people. :Peace2:

In a nutshell Ded! No, not calling you a nut! :laughing7:

Quote from: Molly on June 18, 2013, 04:26:59 AM

Quote from: jabcat on June 18, 2013, 04:07:37 AM

Quote from: Molly on June 18, 2013, 03:47:24 AM
Ok, who degraded my vote?

  :gsad:

What happened Molly?

I was the only vote so it was  100 percent in agreement with me.

And, then someone else voted.   So now only 50 percent agrees with me.

:laughing7:

That was funny Molly! :LH:

Quote from: redhotmagma on June 18, 2013, 04:50:19 AM
I do not believe in a rapture, nor in a tribulation that looks anything like what the mainstream preaches.  I read all the Left Behind books, that was the stance of the group I grew up in, anything else was heretical.  Then I decided to look for myself what the Bible says.  And now I don't believe in that man made doctrine any more. 

For me Jesus is the lens through which I read the Bible as he is the exact imprint of the Father.  I personally don't see any literal fireballs/hailstones coming down from heaven to punish those evil doers.   :2c:

:thumbsup:

Now concerning that day and hour no one knows—neither the angels in heaven, nor the Son[q] —except the Father only. 37 As the days of Noah were, so the coming of the Son of Man will be. 38 For in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day Noah boarded the ark.

Jesus said the angels would not know.
The marriage and giving in marriage is very despicable to God because the Nephilim or sons of god
were marrying the Daughters of man. I think this is going to be a sign that only those with eyes that that see will notice.
IMO

When mankind began to multiply on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of mankind were beautiful, and they took any they chose as wives[a] for themselves. 3 And the LORD said, "My Spirit will not remain with[c] mankind forever, because they are corrupt.[d] Their days will be 120 years." 4 The Nephilim[e] were on the earth both in those days and afterward, when the sons of God came to the daughters of mankind, who bore children to them. They were the powerful men of old, the famous men.

Quote from: Graph1159 on June 18, 2013, 02:49:52 AM

Quote from: Lazarus Short on June 18, 2013, 02:08:31 AM
I can't say that I'm comfortable with any of those posted choices... :dunno2:

Feel free to reply with another choice if you find it more suitable.

OK, I have gotten to the point where I have no use for synthetic theories like the secret rapture - oh just think, if too few people qualified for rapture, no one would even notice!  People disappear all the time, and at what point do we begin to suspect a secret rapture?  IMO, It's just absurd, especially in view of what the Bible has to say on the subject, something like "every eye shall see." 

As for the tribulation, I've been seeing horrible things happening in the world around me all my life, and a look at history and/or the Biblical record paints the same picture.  Ever since Adam and Eve got kicked out of the garden, it's been violence, murder, natural disaster, war, plague and starvation.  Did I miss anything?  God is waiting for something before He steps in and runs the curtain down on history-as-we-know-it.  I believe that He is waiting for all the souls that are going to be born before human extinction, to be born.  I believe that He will act at the last possible moment, for the sake of the elect, and to show the whole created universe the inevitable result of living apart from His plan.  The violence, war and death are only going to escalate until this happens.  However, don't lose heart, because we live in the Time of the Toes, and the Rock Cut Out Without Hands is already set to crush the succession of human empires.  Pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib - I have no use for any of it.  You'd have to convince me first that we're not already in it, and for quite a few years at that.

Quote from: Lazarus Short on June 18, 2013, 10:02:59 PM

Quote from: Graph1159 on June 18, 2013, 02:49:52 AM

Quote from: Lazarus Short on June 18, 2013, 02:08:31 AM
I can't say that I'm comfortable with any of those posted choices... :dunno2:

Feel free to reply with another choice if you find it more suitable.

OK, I have gotten to the point where I have no use for synthetic theories like the secret rapture - oh just think, if too few people qualified for rapture, no one would even notice!  People disappear all the time, and at what point do we begin to suspect a secret rapture?  IMO, It's just absurd, especially in view of what the Bible has to say on the subject, something like "every eye shall see." 

As for the tribulation, I've been seeing horrible things happening in the world around me all my life, and a look at history and/or the Biblical record paints the same picture.  Ever since Adam and Eve got kicked out of the garden, it's been violence, murder, natural disaster, war, plague and starvation.  Did I miss anything?  God is waiting for something before He steps in and runs the curtain down on history-as-we-know-it.  I believe that He is waiting for all the souls that are going to be born before human extinction, to be born.  I believe that He will act at the last possible moment, for the sake of the elect, and to show the whole created universe the inevitable result of living apart from His plan.  The violence, war and death are only going to escalate until this happens.  However, don't lose heart, because we live in the Time of the Toes, and the Rock Cut Out Without Hands is already set to crush the succession of human empires.  Pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib - I have no use for any of it.  You'd have to convince me first that we're not already in it, and for quite a few years at that.

:thumbsup: :dsunny:

Quote from: redhotmagma on June 18, 2013, 04:50:19 AM
I do not believe in a rapture, nor in a tribulation that looks anything like what the mainstream preaches.  I read all the Left Behind books, that was the stance of the group I grew up in, anything else was heretical.  Then I decided to look for myself what the Bible says.  And now I don't believe in that man made doctrine any more. 

For me Jesus is the lens through which I read the Bible as he is the exact imprint of the Father.  I personally don't see any literal fireballs/hailstones coming down from heaven to punish those evil doers.   :2c:

I sorta agree with this viewpoint, but I really haven't studied eschatology enough to form an opinion. :2c:

I have a polyester theory  (although my last name is Cotton)
I agree that the unregenerate character of man has and  will be the same from the beginning.
I have no idea what the character of person born of a woman impregnated by a Nephilim is.
I know God did not like it .
Why does the Bible mention  nine times that the end days will be like time the Nephilim,
half breeds were on the earth.

Quote from: dajomaco on June 19, 2013, 12:26:33 AM
I have a polyester theory  (although my last name is Cotton)
I agree that the unregenerate character of man has and  will be the same from the beginning.
I have no idea what the character of person born of a woman impregnated by a Nephilim is.
I know God did not like it .
Why does the Bible mention  nine times that the end days will be like time the Nephilim,
half breeds were on the earth.

We have half-breeds running around everywhere these days, plus genetic experimentation, plus the transhumanism movement, plus the eugenics movement, etc.  The end results may not be pretty...

Quote from: Lazarus Short on June 19, 2013, 12:42:57 AM

Quote from: dajomaco on June 19, 2013, 12:26:33 AM
I have a polyester theory  (although my last name is Cotton)
I agree that the unregenerate character of man has and  will be the same from the beginning.
I have no idea what the character of person born of a woman impregnated by a Nephilim is.
I know God did not like it .
Why does the Bible mention  nine times that the end days will be like time the Nephilim,
half breeds were on the earth.

We have half-breeds running around everywhere these days, plus genetic experimentation, plus the transhumanism movement, plus the eugenics movement, etc.  The end results may not be pretty...

Yes , they are called bastards   and not sons  :sigh:    wild ones




Hbr 12:7   If ye endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chastens not? 
But if ye be without chastisement, where of all are partakers, then are you  are  bastards, and not sons.Strong's G3541 - nothos
1) illegitimate, bastard

2) one born, not in lawful wedlock, but of a concubine or female slave


  :sigh:

I don't know weather God gave the son's of God a different genetic code that Adam and Eve
Or the Nephilim had no genetic code and some how corrupted not only the off spring of woman
but also other creatures.

Relevant?  Maybe..

humans will soon be able to upload their minds to a computer, computers nearing super-intelligence

"we'll be able to expand the scope of our intelligence a billion-fold"


http://news.yahoo.com/singularity-near-mind-uploading-2045-222426560.html

Right.  And, then we can be like God.  Whoops where have I heard that before?

It must be the end of days.

I see my side is winning again--60 percent for post trib rapture.

But that's prolly because most aren't voting.

Quote from: Molly on June 19, 2013, 06:04:57 AM


But that's prolly because most aren't voting.

I didn't vote.

Quote from: redhotmagma on June 18, 2013, 04:50:19 AM
I do not believe in a rapture, nor in a tribulation that looks anything like what the mainstream preaches.  I read all the Left Behind books, that was the stance of the group I grew up in, anything else was heretical.  Then I decided to look for myself what the Bible says.  And now I don't believe in that man made doctrine any more. 

For me Jesus is the lens through which I read the Bible as he is the exact imprint of the Father.  I personally don't see any literal fireballs/hailstones coming down from heaven to punish those evil doers.   :2c:

I can't even READ the left behind books.. and as far as hail.. I believe that to be debris which is a good reason for any forewarned to come out of the $iTies.. places of darkness to begin with.. and the fire? Even tho it says Jesus comes with fire (and with angels) i do believe the fire to be manmade (rev 13:13 & 6:12-17-altho this last is a description which is the braiding of what it is when 1st released and what it is when fully progressed at the 'end' of man's empire(s) if ppl get caught in the debris it won't be because i refused to try to get the word out... :girlheart:

yes, since the prophecies of Messiah were literally fulfilled, so do I believe such as "for it will come upon all, who dwell on the face of the earth" Lk 21:35,25 and also "and so shall we meet the Lord in the air at His coming" and "his feet touch down upon mt of Olives" (1thes 4 & zech 14:4) also to be literal, as well as the nations streaming to Jerusalem as all the prophets prophesied.

But as far as the left behind scenario.. it's not in the scriptures, imho... not at all.. It's amazing to me its pull/effect.. I liken it to the pull and mesmerism of et, and also of the famous theory of evolution.. all foolishness yet so very strong!! Oiye!! (oops, hope I don't offend anyone.. sorry, please forgive :HeartThrob: ..)

P.s - i know it's portrayed sometimes as fireballs, but it's not in the verses.. mushrooms! tho it doesn't say mushrooms either.. :smile:

 

   for me its always been an inwards working   , by the power of Gods Spirit

I am going to use this  set of scriptures   to try and explain what is happing  , and NO  , I never thought like this before    the Lord come   to dwell in me .

IF   the Kingdom of God does not come with observation , but the Kingdom of God is within you

What than does it come by and with and to whom ?    By His power   in  the Spirit breath and  whom the Father seeks to worship Him in Spirit and Truth   in those deep dark hearts    and chooses to  Lighten up !

If you can see Lightning as a  revelation of pure thought  , a flash of knowing and understanding somthing that was hidden from you before    , and the devil that was cast out of heaven ,  heaven  is your mind /heart        that now Has the Mind of Christ = name written in Heaven  , your  new mind is His  name is   now owning  it .

And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 


Luk 10:18   And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 


Luk 10:19   Behold, I give unto you power  to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 
[  now we see that power over death /carnal mind , that is now in your body , but you now have the mind of Christ  , obedience to the will of God the Father
not hurt by the second death ,,,,   you body of death is already as good as dead  by Faith in Jesus Christ


Luk 10:20   Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.   

Can God make this  that simple a child can understand it ?   you are now a child/babe  of God   born again and a son  , hidden   man of the heart   towards God , name Jesus Christ /mind of Christ


Luk 10:21 ¶ In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. 


Luk 10:22  All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and [he] to whom the Son will reveal [him]. 

  the thundering and lightnings and rumblings are Gods Voice , the flashes of Lightning  are the revealing truths  , Gods Word says so  ,


Job 40:9 Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him?

Psa 77:18 The voice of thy thunder [was] in the heaven: the lightnings lightened the world: the earth trembled and shook.

Psa 104:7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.


Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps


  our imaginary   thinks all matter of things  ,

but the Spiritual truth is   a realm of reality  if its own

Quote from: rosered on June 19, 2013, 05:56:34 PM


   for me its always been an inwards working   , by the power of Gods Spirit

I am going to use this  set of scriptures   to try and explain what is happing  , and NO  , I never thought like this before    the Lord come   to dwell in me .

IF   the Kingdom of God does not come with observation , but the Kingdom of God is within you

What than does it come by and with and to whom ?    By His power   in  the Spirit breath and  whom the Father seeks to worship Him in Spirit and Truth   in those deep dark hearts    and chooses to  Lighten up !

If you can see Lightning as a  revelation of pure thought  , a flash of knowing and understanding somthing that was hidden from you before    , and the devil that was cast out of heaven ,  heaven  is your mind /heart        that now Has the Mind of Christ = name written in Heaven  , your  new mind is His  name is   now owning  it .

And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 


Luk 10:18   And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 


Luk 10:19   Behold, I give unto you power  to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 
[  now we see that power over death /carnal mind , that is now in your body , but you now have the mind of Christ  , obedience to the will of God the Father
not hurt by the second death ,,,,   you body of death is already as good as dead  by Faith in Jesus Christ


Luk 10:20   Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.   

Can God make this  that simple a child can understand it ?   you are now a child/babe  of God   born again and a son  , hidden   man of the heart   towards God , name Jesus Christ /mind of Christ


Luk 10:21  In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. 


Luk 10:22  All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and [he] to whom the Son will reveal [him]. 

  the thundering and lightnings and rumblings are Gods Voice , the flashes of Lightning  are the revealing truths  , Gods Word says so  ,


Job 40:9 Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him?

Psa 77:18 The voice of thy thunder [was] in the heaven: the lightnings lightened the world: the earth trembled and shook.

Psa 104:7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.


Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps


  our imaginary   thinks all matter of things  ,

but the Spiritual truth is   a realm of reality  if its own

:thumbsup:

 :girlheart:
Glad you can    understand me Redhotmagma  yay!!! God bless  those whom help  our brothers and sisters in the Lord !! :HeartThrob:

Its  so hard to be clear  , but I dont see anyone  taken up,  BUT Changed in a twinlking of an eye  ,    twinkle being  fast as a bolt of lightning  , and  the only ''single eye of understanding  what the Spirit is saying '


'Mat 6:22 The light of the body   is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
Luk 11:34 The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when [thine eye] is evil, thy body also [is] full of darkness.
darkness is the lack of understanding

Quote from: jabcat on June 19, 2013, 05:17:01 AM
Relevant?  Maybe..

humans will soon be able to upload their minds to a computer, computers nearing super-intelligence

"we'll be able to expand the scope of our intelligence a billion-fold"


http://news.yahoo.com/singularity-near-mind-uploading-2045-222426560.html

As a matter of human history the events of Noahs times are only known by those who beleive
that a half human speices exsited .
And this is said to the the sign nine times.

So here is a wierd thought all human beings can be filled with the holy spirit .
three or four Generations from now(I think it is three).
There could be a sub spieces that can not recieve the Spirit

This out side of the box

Quote from: redhotmagma on June 19, 2013, 06:14:38 PM

Quote from: rosered on June 19, 2013, 05:56:34 PM


   for me its always been an inwards working   , by the power of Gods Spirit

I am going to use this  set of scriptures   to try and explain what is happing  , and NO  , I never thought like this before    the Lord come   to dwell in me .

IF   the Kingdom of God does not come with observation , but the Kingdom of God is within you

What than does it come by and with and to whom ?    By His power   in  the Spirit breath and  whom the Father seeks to worship Him in Spirit and Truth   in those deep dark hearts    and chooses to  Lighten up !

If you can see Lightning as a  revelation of pure thought  , a flash of knowing and understanding somthing that was hidden from you before    , and the devil that was cast out of heaven ,  heaven  is your mind /heart        that now Has the Mind of Christ = name written in Heaven  , your  new mind is His  name is   now owning  it .

And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. 


Luk 10:18   And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. 


Luk 10:19   Behold, I give unto you power  to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. 
[  now we see that power over death /carnal mind , that is now in your body , but you now have the mind of Christ  , obedience to the will of God the Father
not hurt by the second death ,,,,   you body of death is already as good as dead  by Faith in Jesus Christ


Luk 10:20   Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.   

Can God make this  that simple a child can understand it ?   you are now a child/babe  of God   born again and a son  , hidden   man of the heart   towards God , name Jesus Christ /mind of Christ


Luk 10:21  In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. 


Luk 10:22  All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and [he] to whom the Son will reveal [him]. 

  the thundering and lightnings and rumblings are Gods Voice , the flashes of Lightning  are the revealing truths  , Gods Word says so  ,


Job 40:9 Hast thou an arm like God? or canst thou thunder with a voice like him?

Psa 77:18 The voice of thy thunder [was] in the heaven: the lightnings lightened the world: the earth trembled and shook.

Psa 104:7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.


Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps


  our imaginary   thinks all matter of things  ,

but the Spiritual truth is   a realm of reality  if its own

:thumbsup:

:thumbsup: :dsunny:

Quote from: dajomaco on June 19, 2013, 08:10:19 PM

As a matter of human history the events of Noahs times are only known by those who beleive
that a half human speices exsited .
And this is said to the the sign nine times.

So here is a wierd thought all human beings can be filled with the holy spirit .
three or four Generations from now(I think it is three).
There could be a sub spieces that can not recieve the Spirit

This out side of the box

A "sub species that can not receive the Spirit" would tie right in with some of the weird things I have read about - the ET/greys/demons conduct strange biological/bioillogical experiments on humans and other species.  At one point I realized that their purpose was to insinuate themselves into the human genome, so as to be able to claim kinship with Jesus and escape Judgment.  If you think that is fairly far out, consider that they know their time is almost up, and they are desperate...

We are capable of recieving true love and giving true love.
We are called to love our enemies.
Kind of takes us, out of the whole decision making processes.
I love my dogs.

Slightly off the subject, but do you folks believe in intelligent extra-terrestrial life?  As in Aliens?  From other planets?  :dontknow:  I sure hear a lot about that these days.

I don't believe in aliens. IMO, Jesus and the angels are the only extra terrestials. People want to believe in ET's because it follows the no God needed evolutionary theory which directly contradicts Genesis and science. :Peace2:

Quote from: ded2daworld on June 20, 2013, 12:20:42 AM
I don't believe in aliens. IMO, Jesus and the angels are the only extra terrestials. People want to believe in ET's because it follows the no God needed evolutionary theory which directly contradicts Genesis and science. :Peace2:

:thumbsup:

I don't know whether to believe in aliens or not, but I definitely believe in government propaganda!

Quote from: jbertonbounds on June 19, 2013, 11:17:22 PM
Slightly off the subject, but do you folks believe in intelligent extra-terrestrial life?  As in Aliens?  From other planets?  :dontknow:  I sure hear a lot about that these days.

Extra-terrestrial life?  Sure - angels and God, but there are no Space Brothers.  The ET's are demons, as we see them operate in the atmosphere, under the Prince of the Power of the Air, as we see them switch from the visible realm to the invisible realm, and abduct people but are stopped cold by the name of Jesus.  Do not be deceived. 

Quote from: jbertonbounds on June 20, 2013, 03:15:48 AM
I don't know whether to believe in aliens or not, but I definitely believe in government propaganda!

That reminds me of what Frank Scully, an early writer on UFO's, said back in the 1950's:  "Don't believe the Air Force - believe me!"

Quote from: Lazarus Short on June 20, 2013, 06:59:37 AM

Quote from: jbertonbounds on June 19, 2013, 11:17:22 PM
Slightly off the subject, but do you folks believe in intelligent extra-terrestrial life?  As in Aliens?  From other planets?  :dontknow:  I sure hear a lot about that these days.

Extra-terrestrial life?  Sure - angels and God, but there are no Space Brothers.  The ET's are demons, as we see them operate in the atmosphere, under the Prince of the Power of the Air, as we see them switch from the visible realm to the invisible realm, and abduct people but are stopped cold by the name of Jesus.  Do not be deceived.

:thumbsup:

Quote from: Lazarus Short on June 20, 2013, 06:59:37 AM

Extra-terrestrial life?  Sure - angels and God, but there are no Space Brothers.  The ET's are demons, as we see them operate in the atmosphere, under the Prince of the Power of the Air, as we see them switch from the visible realm to the invisible realm, and abduct people but are stopped cold by the name of Jesus.  Do not be deceived.

How do you mean, stopped cold by the name of Jesus?  Are there incidents where Jesus name was mentioned and they stopped whatever they were doing?  I've never heard this before.

Quote from: Lazarus Short on June 20, 2013, 06:59:37 AM

Quote from: jbertonbounds on June 19, 2013, 11:17:22 PM
Slightly off the subject, but do you folks believe in intelligent extra-terrestrial life?  As in Aliens?  From other planets?  :dontknow:  I sure hear a lot about that these days.

Extra-terrestrial life?  Sure - angels and God, but there are no Space Brothers.  The ET's are demons, as we see them operate in the atmosphere, under the Prince of the Power of the Air, as we see them switch from the visible realm to the invisible realm, and abduct people but are stopped cold by the name of Jesus.  Do not be deceived.

I'll be a second witness to that.  :thumbsup:

Demons  are stopped cold by the name of Jesus.

John:

What I say is founded on the book Through the Valley of Deception by Wesley M. Clark.  It is well worth finding and reading.  He states that some have escaped abduction by invoking the name of Jesus.  They are demons, not Space Brothers.

Quote from: Lazarus Short on June 20, 2013, 10:56:48 PM
John:

What I say is founded on the book Through the Valley of Deception by Wesley M. Clark.  It is well worth finding and reading.  He states that some have escaped abduction by invoking the name of Jesus.  They are demons, not Space Brothers.

Very interesting indeed.  I wonder if I can find it online?

Amazon has it, and cheap if used is OK.  Read it, and you won't have to read a zillion other UFO books.

Quote from: Lazarus Short on June 18, 2013, 10:02:59 PM

Quote from: Graph1159 on June 18, 2013, 02:49:52 AM

Quote from: Lazarus Short on June 18, 2013, 02:08:31 AM
I can't say that I'm comfortable with any of those posted choices... :dunno2:

Feel free to reply with another choice if you find it more suitable.

OK, I have gotten to the point where I have no use for synthetic theories like the secret rapture - oh just think, if too few people qualified for rapture, no one would even notice!  People disappear all the time, and at what point do we begin to suspect a secret rapture?  IMO, It's just absurd, especially in view of what the Bible has to say on the subject, something like "every eye shall see." 

As for the tribulation, I've been seeing horrible things happening in the world around me all my life, and a look at history and/or the Biblical record paints the same picture.  Ever since Adam and Eve got kicked out of the garden, it's been violence, murder, natural disaster, war, plague and starvation.  Did I miss anything?  God is waiting for something before He steps in and runs the curtain down on history-as-we-know-it.  I believe that He is waiting for all the souls that are going to be born before human extinction, to be born.  I believe that He will act at the last possible moment, for the sake of the elect, and to show the whole created universe the inevitable result of living apart from His plan.  The violence, war and death are only going to escalate until this happens.  However, don't lose heart, because we live in the Time of the Toes, and the Rock Cut Out Without Hands is already set to crush the succession of human empires.  Pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib - I have no use for any of it.  You'd have to convince me first that we're not already in it, and for quite a few years at that.

wow! You and I are on the same page! Jesus said in the world we would have "tribulation" always, ever since He spoke it! (And before.) The key being "in the world" this world. And in Matthew 24, the verse - "after the tribulation" - doesn't say it like that, it says "after the tribulation of those days". After the hardships in the days.. what days? From His perspective likely all the days of this world..

..I think the world will go on pretty much until collapse - natural man made collapse(s), not exactly 'judgments' of God, but consequences and results of mankind's own doings. I liked how you put it, so to borrow some of your words,

to show the whole created universe the inevitable result of living apart from Him, and His plan and blueprint. [I.e? All, in heaven and in earth, are learning - "It can't be done" (so don't bother wandering off from God and His will, for to do so can only ever end in a self-destructive puff of smoke.. the 1st or prime lessen being, God is Life and the only other thing is nonlife.??]

In 1 thess 4, it says at His return is the 1st resurrection and the changing (1 Cor 15) of the believer's who are alive in that day, from their corruptible "dusty" likeness/ mortality, to incorruptible "heavenly" likeness/immortality.. 1 Thess 4 doesn't say they will meet Jesus in the heavens, it says in the air/atmosphere, and Zechariah 14:4 tells us Jesus, when He returns, He returns to Mt Olives, from where He ascended, and from where His planetary dealings will spread out(?)
No banquet in the heavenlies while the earth and its inhabitants burn and perish below.

Oh! (I almost forgot) and our being in the days of the ten toes! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
This quoted post is as far as I got.. I haven't read below it yet, so i know I'm likely running behind! :gsmile:

Quote from: dajomaco on June 19, 2013, 08:10:19 PM

As a matter of human history the events of Noahs times are only known by those who beleive
that a half human speices exsited .
And this is said to the the sign nine times.

So here is a wierd thought all human beings can be filled with the holy spirit .
three or four Generations from now(I think it is three).
There could be a sub spieces that can not recieve the Spirit

This out side of the box

This reminds me of a teaching that was around for a while, maybe still is, about "the wheat and the tares", which said some were formed/created by God, the wheat, and some formed/created by the opposer.. and was a way of explaining why some perish (or burn, in some minds i suppose), and was also used as a superiority/race thing, and if i'm remembering correctly it either originated from, or went to, the painting of the Jewish folks as being the "offspring of the opposer".. that the pharisees were literal vipers rather than disobedient human beings..

Not that I think that's where you're going, or implying!! :eek:

I've always thought of the days of the nephilim as being thoroughly pagan (except for Noah). I've gotten it in my head that the religion was sex rites which evolved into child and human sacrifice, as a means to lessen the number of resulting unwanted babes. And these nephilim were the 'heroes', the 'gods' of renown in that system. And we can tell by the building of Babel Tower "to the stars" which they considered 'the gods', that it was still around, with its nephilim legends.. And today, man's 'wisdom'/adult fairy tale, of evolution as origins, prophecies (begins to prophecy) a return to looking to the stars, 'the gods' as some are seriously hypothesizing that the earth was "seeded" from these "godlike ones".. represented as serpent 'gods' (the modern day et's with large heads and eyes), who in turn - the serpent 'gods' are descended from the 'dragon gods' an even more superior race, evolution, beings, guides, benevolent spirits, masters..

(most of all? as to resembling those days, i think of the sacrificing of babes to that deemed sacred..)

....also, as resembling, is the world being one and building together.. now we're going global.. the separation of languages has been overcome.
Genesis 11:6 - "And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do."
:smile: :hiya:

Quote from: Lazarus Short on June 20, 2013, 10:56:48 PM
John:

What I say is founded on the book Through the Valley of Deception by Wesley M. Clark.  It is well worth finding and reading.  He states that some have escaped abduction by invoking the name of Jesus.  They are demons, not Space Brothers.

:thumbsup: that only makes perfect sense.. L. Ron Hubbard (name? founder of scientology) and Aleister Crowley (high Satanist) did rituals to bring "other dimensional entities through a portal to the earth plane" (is how they put it). And they said they brought through a grey entity called "Lam"(?) He had a big head and the big eyes.. the only difference between his description (sketch) and the cartoonish big eyed green et's popular today is he was grey.

Yep, they're demons.. I read a book called "Close Encounters of the Fourth Kind" - I think it was called, and happened across the documentary later too! (Which in it, via a recording of a so called voice and static, made a connection between the et's and the ancient 'gods' of Mesopotamia, spooky but clicked with me - as the demons of ancient Mesopotamia.) All who said they have been "abducted" by these have in common when interviewed, or receive therapy, namely, deep primal terror. Demons are our predator after all..

But must flee at the name of Jesus! :thumbsup:

P.S - jbertonbounds, LOVE the new sig!! :))

Quote from: jbertonbounds on June 19, 2013, 11:17:22 PM
Slightly off the subject, but do you folks believe in intelligent extra-terrestrial life?  As in Aliens?  From other planets?  :dontknow:  I sure hear a lot about that these days.

20 years before I was saved I was a New Age Ufologist. Even before I was saved I found out that "aliens" whatever they were, are liars and lied about everything. I even believed that if they were real aliens from outer space then humanity was in real trouble because there were no good ones. It was all deception. I gave up on the New Age movement as total lies and the aliens as more akin with the demonic. I left this all behind 20 years before I became a believer in Christ. Now I know that the alien presence are the fallen angels. They technically did come from "out there" and technically are "aliens" (not from earth but rather Heaven) but they were exiled here by God. The abduction experience is no different than visions caused by Angels in the Bible except these abductors are evil. The fallen angels still have angel powers and can cause visions, appear to walk through walls and change their appearance. But it's what they do in the mind that's so horrible. ufologists have no idea if the abductions are real or in the mind. These entities have an almost total access to the unsaved and their children and the abduction experience is generational. They do horrible things to them and seem to want to convince abductees that they are aliens come to save them and that Christ was either one of them or was a hologram or 1000 other things but who he actually is. These alien/fallen angels will say anything to undermine Christ yet Christians can stop an abduction experience dead in it's tracks in the name of Jesus Christ. They fear Jesus. There are hundreds of examples of this and it's considered the greatest secret in Ufology. No one will write about it for fear of losing their publishing and many have been told they will. Christians like Gary Bates @ alienintrusion writes and speaks on the subject. Christians need to know what's happening.

Quote from: Molly on June 20, 2013, 06:47:00 PM

Quote from: Lazarus Short on June 20, 2013, 06:59:37 AM

Quote from: jbertonbounds on June 19, 2013, 11:17:22 PM
Slightly off the subject, but do you folks believe in intelligent extra-terrestrial life?  As in Aliens?  From other planets?  :dontknow:  I sure hear a lot about that these days.

Extra-terrestrial life?  Sure - angels and God, but there are no Space Brothers.  The ET's are demons, as we see them operate in the atmosphere, under the Prince of the Power of the Air, as we see them switch from the visible realm to the invisible realm, and abduct people but are stopped cold by the name of Jesus.  Do not be deceived.

I'll be a second witness to that.  :thumbsup:

Demons  are stopped cold by the name of Jesus.

The evil spirit answered them, "I know Jesus, and I recognize Paul—but who are you?"  16 Then the man who had the evil spirit leaped on them, overpowered them all, and prevailed against them, so that they ran out of that house naked and wounded.

I do not think that making the sound gee sus has any power.
We have to assume all demons speak English
I personally do not think that Paul was taught how to respond to demons.
The demons learned the hard way to stay away from Paul. Acts 19

 none of the above.............. :laughing7:

The only thing I will say about any so called rapture is throughout the Bible God always saved his righteous from his Wrath. However he never saved his righteous from tribulation. So there is no reason to expect God to rescue anyone from any of the 2 tribulations. 1) the Tribulation and 2) the Great Tribulation. However God will save his elect from his Wrath. Most Christians have no idea what the difference is between Tribulation and Wrath because the apostate church doesn't want anyone to know.

Quote from: Robert Sparks on October 17, 2013, 01:18:17 PM
The only thing I will say about any so called rapture is throughout the Bible God always saved his righteous from his Wrath. However he never saved his righteous from tribulation. So there is no reason to expect God to rescue anyone from any of the 2 tribulations. 1) the Tribulation and 2) the Great Tribulation. However God will save his elect from his Wrath. Most Christians have no idea what the difference is between Tribulation and Wrath because the apostate church doesn't want anyone to know.

hi! It's my belief the 'church' doesn't know! I find it interesting that Jesus returns with angels and with fire.. imo, kind of like the angels gather his elect who go 'up' (then next to Mt of Olives-Zech 14:4) but as saints go 'up', the fire goes 'down'.. that the bowls/the final consequences of man's empire(s) built on sand, are not only poured out "quickly" but are concurrent.. being that final fire of this age..

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days.. they shall see the Son of man" (manchild) "returning on the clouds.. He will send His angels to gather His elect from the four corners" (directions) "under heaven.." (from Mt 24:38-41)
         :2c: :Peace2:

Quote from: Robert Sparks on October 10, 2013, 03:30:53 AM

20 years before I was saved I was a New Age Ufologist. Even before I was saved I found out that "aliens" whatever they were, are liars and lied about everything. I even believed that if they were real aliens from outer space then humanity was in real trouble because there were no good ones. It was all deception. I gave up on the New Age movement as total lies and the aliens as more akin with the demonic. I left this all behind 20 years before I became a believer in Christ. Now I know that the alien presence are the fallen angels. They technically did come from "out there" and technically are "aliens" (not from earth but rather Heaven) but they were exiled here by God. The abduction experience is no different than visions caused by Angels in the Bible except these abductors are evil. The fallen angels still have angel powers and can cause visions, appear to walk through walls and change their appearance. But it's what they do in the mind that's so horrible. ufologists have no idea if the abductions are real or in the mind. These entities have an almost total access to the unsaved and their children and the abduction experience is generational. They do horrible things to them and seem to want to convince abductees that they are aliens come to save them and that Christ was either one of them or was a hologram or 1000 other things but who he actually is. These alien/fallen angels will say anything to undermine Christ yet Christians can stop an abduction experience dead in it's tracks in the name of Jesus Christ. They fear Jesus. There are hundreds of examples of this and it's considered the greatest secret in Ufology. No one will write about it for fear of losing their publishing and many have been told they will. Christians like Gary Bates @ alienintrusion writes and speaks on the subject. Christians need to know what's happening.

I totally agree! .. and they are the (dark) "entities" Aleister Crowley and L. Ron Hubbard did rituals to "bring through portals".. (like they're not already here aNd quite active! and they brought an entity they called "Lam" thru supposedly who they described and drew what looked a lot like the green headedm serpent eyed, popular et images, only he was grey..

Quote from: dajomaco on June 19, 2013, 12:26:33 AM
I have a polyester theory  (although my last name is Cotton)
I agree that the unregenerate character of man has and  will be the same from the beginning.
I have no idea what the character of person born of a woman impregnated by a Nephilim is.
I know God did not like it .
Why does the Bible mention  nine times that the end days will be like time the Nephilim,
half breeds were on the earth.

...Lot of demonic activity and influence?

Quote from: Robert Sparks on October 17, 2013, 01:18:17 PM
The only thing I will say about any so called rapture is throughout the Bible God always saved his righteous from his Wrath. However he never saved his righteous from tribulation. So there is no reason to expect God to rescue anyone from any of the 2 tribulations. 1) the Tribulation and 2) the Great Tribulation. However God will save his elect from his Wrath. Most Christians have no idea what the difference is between Tribulation and Wrath because the apostate church doesn't want anyone to know.

http://concordant.org/expohtml/TheProblemOfEvil/evil026.html

Quote from: marie glen link=topic=11566.msg164308#msg164308
hi! It's my belief the 'church' doesn't know! I find it interesting that Jesus returns with angels and with fire..

The HS I would say.

Quote from: dajomaco on June 19, 2013, 12:26:33 AM
I have a polyester theory  (although my last name is Cotton)
I agree that the unregenerate character of man has and  will be the same from the beginning.
I have no idea what the character of person born of a woman impregnated by a Nephilim is.
I know God did not like it .
Why does the Bible mention  nine times that the end days will be like time the Nephilim,
half breeds were on the earth.

Rev 9: 2 And he opened the pit of the abyss, and smoke ascended out of the pit, like smoke of a burning fur-nace. And the sun and the air were darkened from the smoke of the pit. 3 And locusts came forth out of the smoke upon the earth, and power was given to them, like the scorpions of the earth have power.
The locusts are not insects, helicopters, etc. They are Teraphim the lowest class of the fallen angels. The Hebrew word locusts is translated from is 'arbeh' also means to lay in an ambush. The word is related to arbah which means pit, chimney or smoke hole. It's also related to the word Nephilim.

Rev 9: 7 And the likeness of the locusts was similar to horses prepared for battle. And upon their heads were like golden crowns, and their faces were as men's faces. 8 And they had hair like the hair of women, and their teeth were as of lions. 9 And they had breastplates like iron breastplates. And the sound of their wings was like the sound of chariots of many horses running into battle.
Beside that the 'locusts' have human features like angels they wear iron breastplates which is symbolic for angelic activity on earth.

Rev 9:5 And it was given them that they would not kill them, but that they would be tormented five months. And their torment was as the torment of a scorpion when it strikes a man. 6 And in those days men will seek death, and will, no, not find it. And they will long to die, and death will flee from them.
1Thess 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction comes on them, as travail on a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
In the above verse pain is translated from the same Greek word. In Hebrew counterpart also carries the meaning of labor pains. Rev 12:2 also links the Greek word to giving birth. So Rev 9:5 is about labor pains

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness to the judgment of the great day.
The angels that married human women were chained and will be released in Rev. 9:2
Matt 24:37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall be the coming of the Son of man. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, till the day in which Noah entered the ark, 39 and knew not, till the flood came and took them all away: so shall be the coming of the Son of man
Who are "they"? A mistranslation from "Baal Nashim" = "Devil women" is claimed. So the devils and women eat, drink, etc. Noah lived in a valley with many Nephilim. Nephilim are the offspring of human females and fallen Teraphim. The symbol or angels is iron; that of humans is clay. Mix and the result is the return of the Nephilim.
Dan 2:43 And whereas you saw iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not join one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the middle of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured on the desolate.
He = Abaddon. Many = devils/Teraphim released from the abyss.
The "sacrifice and the oblation" obviously are the Temple sacrifices; but how can that be if there is no Temple? The Red horseman of the 2nd seal started an Edomite/Arab war which the Arabs lost. It seems the Arab forces will be totally wiped out in that war and Israel will live in peace ........

...thus..why twowomen grinding at themill,one taken,oneleft. twomenin a bed,one takenone left

...also..the parableofthe wheat and tares/good/evil..the tokogae[know]

  the offspring.sons ofGod..the offspring ofvipers/sonsofthedevil.......

thechildrenofthelight..thekingdomofdarkness[shroud of darkness removed from offthe people]

it would appear evident that there are twoimages in Adam...the corrupt and the divine.......

   the oneissentenced to death/everlasting destruction...the other to eternallife

andas ALLmenhave bore theimageofthecorruptibleone,so,too shall all men bear the

image oftheincorruptible one.

please notethat the word 'mingle' mix..is the same rootmeaning for when the sonsof God

came topresent themselves before theLord..the 'satan' entered also 'among/mingle'them

   among...inthecompany of.....[on,in+ gemang,a mingling crowd

         

Quote from: marie glen on October 17, 2013, 06:53:06 PM

Quote from: Robert Sparks on October 17, 2013, 01:18:17 PM
The only thing I will say about any so called rapture is throughout the Bible God always saved his righteous from his Wrath. However he never saved his righteous from tribulation. So there is no reason to expect God to rescue anyone from any of the 2 tribulations. 1) the Tribulation and 2) the Great Tribulation. However God will save his elect from his Wrath. Most Christians have no idea what the difference is between Tribulation and Wrath because the apostate church doesn't want anyone to know.

hi! It's my belief the 'church' doesn't know! I find it interesting that Jesus returns with angels and with fire.. imo, kind of like the angels gather his elect who go 'up' (then next to Mt of Olives-Zech 14:4) but as saints go 'up', the fire goes 'down'.. that the bowls/the final consequences of man's empire(s) built on sand, are not only poured out "quickly" but are concurrent.. being that final fire of this age..

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days.. they shall see the Son of man" (manchild) "returning on the clouds.. He will send His angels to gather His elect from the four corners" (directions) "under heaven.." (from Mt 24:38-41)
         :2c: :Peace2:

It might look just like the Exodus.
God sends Judgments but those with the Blood of the Lamb are exempt.
This is the Passover.
God didn't get the Israelites out of Egypt until he unleashed the 10 plagues on Egypt.
Then he God them out.
Should we expect the same thing in the end with NO rapture until the end?
Exodus could be a mini look at the end times.