Can you enter the kingdom of God if you are unclean.

[dajomaco]

For this you know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God."

I have an opinion on the question (Can the unclean enter the kingdom of God.)
Read the Chapter below, (the whole chapter)


2 Chronicles 30

Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)


Celebration of the Passover

30 Then Hezekiah sent word throughout all Israel and Judah, and he also wrote letters to Ephraim and Manasseh to come to the Lord's temple in Jerusalem to observe the Passover of Yahweh, the God of Israel.  2 For the king and his officials and the entire congregation in Jerusalem decided to observe the Passover of the Lord in the second month,  3 because they were not able to observe it at the appropriate time. Not enough of the priests had consecrated themselves and the people hadn't been gathered together in Jerusalem.  4 The proposal pleased the king and the congregation,  5 so they affirmed the proposal and spread the message throughout all Israel, from Beer-sheba to Dan, to come to observe the Passover of Yahweh, the God of Israel in Jerusalem, for they hadn't observed it often,[a] as prescribed.

6 So the couriers went throughout Israel and Judah with letters from the hand of the king and his officials, and according to the king's command, saying, "Israelites, return to Yahweh, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel so that He may return to those of you who remain, who have escaped from the grasp of the kings of Assyria.  7 Don't be like your fathers and your brothers who were unfaithful to Yahweh, the God of their ancestors so that He made them an object of horror as you yourselves see.  8 Don't become obstinate[c] now like your fathers did. Give your allegiance[d] to Yahweh, and come to His sanctuary that He has consecrated forever. Serve the Lord your God so that He may turn His burning anger away from you,  9 for when you return to Yahweh, your brothers and your sons will receive mercy in the presence of their captors and will return to this land. For Yahweh your God is gracious and merciful; He will not turn His face away from you if you return to Him."

10 The couriers traveled from city to city in the land of Ephraim and Manasseh as far as Zebulun, but the inhabitants[e] laughed at them and mocked them.  11 But some from Asher, Manasseh, and Zebulun humbled themselves and came to Jerusalem.  12 Also, the power of God was at work in Judah to unite them[f] to carry out the command of the king and his officials by the word of the Lord.

13 A very large assembly of people was gathered in Jerusalem to observe the Festival of Unleavened Bread in the second month.  14 They proceeded to take away the altars that were in Jerusalem, and they took away the incense altars and threw them into the Kidron Valley.  15 They slaughtered the Passover lamb on the fourteenth day of the second month. The priests and Levites were ashamed, and they consecrated themselves and brought burnt offerings to the Lord's temple.  16 They stood at their prescribed posts, according to the law of Moses, the man of God. The priests sprinkled the blood received from the hand of the Levites,  17 for there were many in the assembly who had not consecrated themselves, and so the Levites were in charge of slaughtering the Passover lambs for every unclean person to consecrate the lambs to the Lord.  18 A large number of the people—many from Ephraim, Manasseh, Issachar, and Zebulun—were ritually unclean, yet they had eaten the Passover contrary to what was written. But Hezekiah had interceded for them, saying, "May the good Lord provide atonement on behalf of  19 whoever sets his whole heart on seeking God, Yahweh, the God of his ancestors, even though not according to the purification rules of the sanctuary."  20 So the Lord heard Hezekiah and healed the people.  21 The Israelites who were present in Jerusalem observed the Festival of Unleavened Bread seven days with great joy, and the Levites and the priests praised the Lord day after day with loud instruments.  22 Then Hezekiah encouraged[g] all the Levites who performed skillfully before the Lord. They ate at the appointed festival for seven days, sacrificing fellowship offerings and giving thanks to Yahweh, the God of their ancestors.

23 The whole congregation decided to observe seven more days, so they observed seven days with joy,  24 for Hezekiah king of Judah contributed 1,000 bulls and 7,000 sheep for the congregation. Also, the officials contributed 1,000 bulls and 10,000 sheep for the congregation, and many priests consecrated themselves.  25 Then the whole assembly of Judah with the priests and Levites, the whole assembly that came from Israel, the foreigners who came from the land of Israel, and those who were living in Judah, rejoiced.  26 There was great rejoicing in Jerusalem, for nothing like this was known since the days of Solomon son of David, the king of Israel.

27 Then the priests and the Levites stood to bless the people, and God heard their voice, and their prayer came into His holy dwelling place in heaven

[sheila]

  hey Daj........

    the way I look at it,Jesus Christ,as our High Preist...haas all authority and power to present us spotless before the Father.  While here on earth

  He showed this ability,ordering many unclean spirits out of people..

    the water of His word..washes us, and He also girds Himself and washes our feet.

   when the gentile beleivers came in...God said..'quit calling unclean what God has cleansed"

   1Kings 7;38.....shows ten lavers used in the temple service...a shadow of Jesus Preisthood...we re washed with the water of His word.....

and washed with the blood of the Lamb which purifies.

  we become clean through the word He has spoken to us.  It is His Great and Holy Honour to make us presentable unto our Father...

  He does this,and will do this for all men

[Lazarus Short]

 :iagree:

Also see the parable of the wedding feast, in Matthew 22:10: 

Those officers, going out into the main roads, accordingly collected all they could find, both bad and good; and the wedding was filled with guests.  [Ferrar Fenton Version]

I conclude, from this and II Chronicles 30, that the unclean are made clean, [and why not?], for our salvation/sanctification/glorification are not for any virtue we have, lest we should boast, but due to God's good pleasure and lovingkindness.

[lastpost]

Interestingly, although Christ expelled a wicked tenant who the owner of the body had unwittingly permitted to live in it, seven more wicked spirits came to live in the body. Clearly, Christ teaches that "sweeping" clean a person does not keep that person clean.

If the owner of the body does not follow the spirit of the teachings of Christ Jesus, such vacancy will be advertised again. In my opinion, it is not enough to have a belief that one is "saved" (or any other belief for that matter) and then carry on in the same way as before, indeed, it is most dangerous - hence the Christ Way was taught by the Master for the guidance and protection of all.

[sheila]

yes,God forbid thaat the spirit of love not dwell there.  Less they be a religious self-righteous spirit enter. Proverbs 26;25   though his speech

is charming,do not beleive him,for seven abominaations fill his heart....Prvrbs 6;16 [ mark of the beast]  There are six things that God hates

  seven that are detestable to Him; haughty eyes[arrogance] a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood,a heart that devises wicked

schemes,feet that are quick to rush to evil,a false wittness who pours out lies,and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.

   For this reason Jesus told Pharisee and saducee evil viper offspring...ye traverse land and sea to make one proselyte,and when ye have

made him such,he becomes twice the child of hell.

   hate.detest something it is abominable to you..you can't abide there..   that's what happens to many repentant people  that desire  peace

with God.

   I have heard that 666 is really 616 when properly interpreted[don't know] but it also says this takes wisdom...and Proverbs is one of the wisdom

  books.

[ded2daworld]

Yes and no. IMO we are all unclean but are then washed clean by the blood of the lamd and reckoned as righteous. :Peace2:

[jabcat]

Yes and no. IMO we are all unclean but are then washed clean by the blood of the lamd and reckoned as righteous. :Peace2:

Boom!

[Ken]

Hello Dajomaco,

The short answer is no. But, just as important as the sins listed in the Bible that would disqualify someone from the KOG, so might our attitude:

http://ernestlmartin.com/kingdomofgod-firstresurrection.htm

I hope this helps.

Ken

(http://ernestlmartin.com/images/kogpng.png)

For this you know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God."

I have an opinion on the question (Can the unclean enter the kingdom of God.)
Read the Chapter below, (the whole chapter)


2 Chronicles 30

Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)


Celebration of the Passover

30 Then Hezekiah sent word throughout all Israel and Judah, and he also wrote letters to Ephraim and Manasseh to come to the Lord's temple in Jerusalem to observe the Passover of Yahweh, the God of Israel.  2 For the king and his officials and the entire congregation in Jerusalem decided to observe the Passover of the Lord in the second month,  3 because they were not able to observe it at the appropriate time. Not enough of the priests had consecrated themselves and the people hadn't been gathered together in Jerusalem.  4 The proposal pleased the king and the congregation,  5 so they affirmed the proposal and spread the message throughout all Israel, from Beer-sheba to Dan, to come to observe the Passover of Yahweh, the God of Israel in Jerusalem, for they hadn't observed it often,[a] as prescribed.

6 So the couriers went throughout Israel and Judah with letters from the hand of the king and his officials, and according to the king's command, saying, "Israelites, return to Yahweh, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel so that He may return to those of you who remain, who have escaped from the grasp of the kings of Assyria.  7 Don't be like your fathers and your brothers who were unfaithful to Yahweh, the God of their ancestors so that He made them an object of horror as you yourselves see.  8 Don't become obstinate[c] now like your fathers did. Give your allegiance[d] to Yahweh, and come to His sanctuary that He has consecrated forever. Serve the Lord your God so that He may turn His burning anger away from you,  9 for when you return to Yahweh, your brothers and your sons will receive mercy in the presence of their captors and will return to this land. For Yahweh your God is gracious and merciful; He will not turn His face away from you if you return to Him."

10 The couriers traveled from city to city in the land of Ephraim and Manasseh as far as Zebulun, but the inhabitants[e] laughed at them and mocked them.  11 But some from Asher, Manasseh, and Zebulun humbled themselves and came to Jerusalem.  12 Also, the power of God was at work in Judah to unite them[f] to carry out the command of the king and his officials by the word of the Lord.

13 A very large assembly of people was gathered in Jerusalem to observe the Festival of Unleavened Bread in the second month.  14 They proceeded to take away the altars that were in Jerusalem, and they took away the incense altars and threw them into the Kidron Valley.  15 They slaughtered the Passover lamb on the fourteenth day of the second month. The priests and Levites were ashamed, and they consecrated themselves and brought burnt offerings to the Lord's temple.  16 They stood at their prescribed posts, according to the law of Moses, the man of God. The priests sprinkled the blood received from the hand of the Levites,  17 for there were many in the assembly who had not consecrated themselves, and so the Levites were in charge of slaughtering the Passover lambs for every unclean person to consecrate the lambs to the Lord.  18 A large number of the people—many from Ephraim, Manasseh, Issachar, and Zebulun—were ritually unclean, yet they had eaten the Passover contrary to what was written. But Hezekiah had interceded for them, saying, "May the good Lord provide atonement on behalf of  19 whoever sets his whole heart on seeking God, Yahweh, the God of his ancestors, even though not according to the purification rules of the sanctuary."  20 So the Lord heard Hezekiah and healed the people.  21 The Israelites who were present in Jerusalem observed the Festival of Unleavened Bread seven days with great joy, and the Levites and the priests praised the Lord day after day with loud instruments.  22 Then Hezekiah encouraged[g] all the Levites who performed skillfully before the Lord. They ate at the appointed festival for seven days, sacrificing fellowship offerings and giving thanks to Yahweh, the God of their ancestors.

23 The whole congregation decided to observe seven more days, so they observed seven days with joy,  24 for Hezekiah king of Judah contributed 1,000 bulls and 7,000 sheep for the congregation. Also, the officials contributed 1,000 bulls and 10,000 sheep for the congregation, and many priests consecrated themselves.  25 Then the whole assembly of Judah with the priests and Levites, the whole assembly that came from Israel, the foreigners who came from the land of Israel, and those who were living in Judah, rejoiced.  26 There was great rejoicing in Jerusalem, for nothing like this was known since the days of Solomon son of David, the king of Israel.

27 Then the priests and the Levites stood to bless the people, and God heard their voice, and their prayer came into His holy dwelling place in heaven

[dajomaco]

Then the whole assembly of Judah with the priests and Levites, the whole assembly that came from Israel, the foreigners who came from the land of Israel, and those who were living in Judah, rejoiced.  26 There was great rejoicing in Jerusalem, for nothing like this was known since the days of Solomon son of David, the king of Israel.

27 Then the priests and the Levites stood to bless the people, and God heard their voice, and their prayer came into His holy dwelling place in heaven

If we look at the biblical definition of unclean.
The person who is unclean is not actually in charge of the getting clean.
He must trust that the priest preformed the appropriate temple ritual properly
Unclean man new that God was pure, and unclean man could not enter the kingdom of God, unclean.
The prove that the priest was successful. Was the naturally wild rejoicing and praising of God as the
Weight of there sin was being lifted off .

The unclean man had entered the kingdom of God.
He entered and went so far in the kingdom, that God could hear his voice (unclean man)
(now cleaned by blood) HIS PRAYERS WHERE HEARD BY GOD WHILE GOD WAS STILL AT HOME.


If an other unclean man, said to himself wow I'd like to get me some of that clean stuff.
He would need to find a priest. He knew he could not do it himself.
As matter of fact he could not help the priest with the sacrifice offering at all.
The priest definitely did not want the unclean to be involved at all .

The same way our priest does not need your help.

For this you know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God."

You can enter the kingdom of God right now.
You will be close enough to God that you'll know he has heard your prayers.
Don't taint the fellow ship by thinking God is waiting for you to do something.
Have faith we are already been made clean.

There was great rejoicing in Jerusalem, for nothing like this was known since the days of Solomon son of David, the king of Israel.

[ed]

I believe that we all have something clean in us.  The Spirit of God.  The omnipresent.  If the omnipresent is always here with us then we need only look to it to find the kingdom of heaven.  The act of looking is an act of washing, cleaning, and cleansing.  This makes it an attitude of heart in order to connect with Christ.  When we connect we are made clean in the process.  No one can take this privileged away from the individual.  How are people robbed of the kingdom heaven?  Doctrine that states that they can not get in.  Faith is what appropriates.  Faith in bad doctrine results in a loss of the good things that are readily available to all.  "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the world of God."

That is a misunderstood verse.  They make "the word of God" to be the Bible rather then the living indwelling word available to all.

.

.

[lastpost]

I believe that we all have something clean in us.  The Spirit of God.  The omnipresent.  If the omnipresent is always here with us then we need only look to it to find the kingdom of heaven.  The act of looking is an act of washing, cleaning, and cleansing.  This makes it an attitude of heart in order to connect with Christ.  When we connect we are made clean in the process.  No one can take this privileged away from the individual.  How are people robbed of the kingdom heaven?  Doctrine that states that they can not get in.  Faith is what appropriates.  Faith in bad doctrine results in a loss of the good things that are readily available to all.  "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the world of God."

That is a misunderstood verse.  They make "the word of God" to be the Bible rather then the living indwelling word available to all.

Dear Ed, I appreciate your sentiments.

You note that the "looking" and cleansing of the heart is a "process" and you are involved in it - you are active, you participate. I agree, and it's by the grace of God we can be involved - and it's only dogmatic words that attempt to deny this. I believe that the soul will never be happy unless it feels in some way that it has contributed a little something towards the mighty gifts given through the grace of God - it's just normal to want to contribute something when given abundance.

While much in the Bible is truly inspired (inspirited), plus it contains the sacred records of some of our Lord's life on Earth, I do not see it as infallible, unlike many, but I appreciate their adherence to an ideal because ideals are character-forming and our character is what we take with us when we go - I believe.

However, I think that you are closer to the mark when you say: "They make the 'word of God' to be the Bible rather than the living indwelling word available to all". The indwelling spirit is eternally living and has Eternity ahead whereas the Sacred Record is for an Aeon only.

[jabcat]

By "the word within available to all", do you mean Jesus and the Holy/Pure Spirit inside of spiritually reborn believers, washed/cleansed by the blood of the Lamb?   Ed, do you believe Jesus is a vital part of that process?  It seems you indicated earlier people in all religions have fellowship with God, i.e., that God generally/often "bypasses" Jesus to establish relationship?

If you do mean Jesus, then I agree, He is the Word of God.  But IMO, there's often more misunderstood than just the one aspect of this scripture in question, and I believe these things are important to clarify.  The scriptures do say Jesus is the Word made flesh;  and I believe there is also spoken Word, thought Word, and written Word - many ways God expresses Himself to us.

This may be informative and helpful;

http://tentmaker.org/forum/lounge/does-god-protect-the-written-word-from-human-error/msg155138/#msg155138

[Molly]

The way I see it, we are vessels, pots, made to carry something--



3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

--2 Cor 4.



If the vessel is swept clean, and the Holy Spirit does not enter into it, something else will, some other spirit.



This is why the Holy Spirit seals us.



And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

--Eph 4:30



"you are sealed"

72
σφραγίζω
sphragizō
sfrag-id'-zo
From G4973; to stamp (with a signet or private mark) for security or preservation (literally or figuratively); by implication to keep secret, to attest: - (set a, set to) seal up, stop.


There's lots more to say about this cleaning up  as others have noted.  It's a good study.



Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

[rosered]

 

  Hi all ,
  Daj you are clean by the Word spoken to you , you are looking at the written word  Law of Moses  bro and     this law     is the knowledge of sin and death

when we mix the two Babylon  is in effect      we see both laws    here
the two laws   Rom 8:2   For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
spoken Word and written word
   till the Living Word   abides in you   working   in you to do Gods good pleasure  [  Holy Spirit ]
you are spiritual   your mind is Christ's, and yet you are still undergoing the  body of death , your mortal body is a death trap  , whom the Lord delivers you from

Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me.


I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 


Jhn 15:2   Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 


Jhn 15:3   Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 


Jhn 15:4   Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 

Jesus Christ is  the mediator    for us    Paul tell us this much 

  Paul explains in Romans  7  how he learned to seperate himself  from sin  ,  no longer I but the sin dwelling in his flesh ,  your flesh will never be clean to enter the kingdom    , there is no good thing in it     , God gave it to be dust and the serpents food    ,

what Paul did was focus  on the things above and   fruits of the Spirit   , not the   focus of  fruits of death as the Law of Moses it shows us  how we will fail miserably   , that is Why Jesus was sent  , that is why  we have help and a new way   , the truth will set you free ,    Paul was pretty good at being in the Spoirit  look at all that was given for us  though   his obedience to Christ   being  Christ servant    I recommend reading both  Romans7  and 8     I used Gods word translation here
  only because it makes this alot more clear than the KJV     but I like KJV

Moses' Laws Show What Sin Is
THE KNOWLEDGE of  sin   which is   holy good , but not  holy  perfect  , Jesus shows us what is HOLY perfect 


7 What should we say, then? Are the laws in Moses' Teachings sinful?

That's unthinkable! In fact, I wouldn't have recognized sin if those laws hadn't shown it to me.

For example, I wouldn't have known that some desires are sinful if Moses' Teachings hadn't said, "Never have wrong desires."

8 But sin took the opportunity provided by this commandment and made me have all kinds of wrong desires. Clearly, without laws sin is dead.


9 At one time I was alive without any laws. But when this commandment came, sin became alive 10 and I died.

I found that the commandment which was intended to bring me life actually brought me death. 11 Sin, taking the opportunity provided by this commandment, deceived me and then killed me.

12 So the laws in Moses' Teachings are holy, and the commandment is holy, right, and good. 13 Now, did something good cause my death? That's unthinkable! Rather, my death was caused by sin so that sin would be recognized for what it is.

Through a commandment sin became more sinful than ever.

God's Standards Are at War with Sin's Standards
14 I know that God's standards in Moses' Teachings are spiritual,

but I have a corrupt nature, sold as a slave to sin.

15 I don't realize what I'm doing. I don't do what I want to do. Instead,

I do what I hate.

16 I don't do what I want to do, but I agree that God's standards are good.

17 So I am no longer the one who is doing the things I hate, but sin that lives in me is doing them.

18 I know that nothing good lives in me; that is, nothing good lives in my corrupt nature. Although I have the desire to do what is right, I don't do it.

19 I don't do the good I want to do. Instead, I do the evil that I don't want to do. 20 Now, when I do what I don't want to do, I am no longer the one who is doing it. Sin that lives in me is doing it.


21 So I've discovered this truth: Evil is present with me even when I want to do what God's standards say is good.

22 I take pleasure in God's standards in my inner being.


23 However, I see a different standard at work throughout my body.

It is at war with the standards my mind sets and tries to take me captive to sin's standards which still exist throughout my body.


24 What a miserable person I am! Who will rescue me from my dying body?


25 I thank God that our Lord Jesus Christ rescues me!

So I am obedient to God's standards with my mind, but I am obedient to sin's standards with my corrupt nature.


and here we know the old covenant is  decaying and  disappearing as the new one takes full effect      :dsunny:

For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:    Hbr 8:11   And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 


Hbr 8:12  For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 


Hbr 8:13   In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away
  I hope this is helpful as it was to me    to understand it
  peace in Jesus

[jabcat]

Very nice post rosie.

[rosered]

Very nice post rosie.

Blessing Bro J , 
the Lord has been  awesome the past couple a weeks   lots of revelation , those things that were hidden
  I am so glad you can see them too   it means alot :girlheart:

[lomarah]

Amen Rose, awesome post, thanks for sharing!

[rosered]

Amen Rose, awesome post, thanks for sharing!

:HeartThrob:

  we should  share when the Lord  gives it , and we can recieve it sis!  God is good to us all  , I am thankful for those   whom share what the Lord gives them  ,  I read that scripture many times and this time   a lighting bolt   ha ! :dsunny:

[Molly]

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

We are now living in the realm of the Spirit by the washing of the Word and by the [life-giving]  Spirit of God [the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus].


We have passed over from death to life.



So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. 2 And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death. 3 The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin's control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins. 4 He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead follow the Spirit.

--Rom 8




11 The Spirit of God, who raised Jesus from the dead, lives in you. And just as God raised Christ Jesus from the dead, he will give life to your mortal bodies by this same Spirit living within you.

--Rom 8




But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, has
made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved.

--Eph 2:4-5

[jabcat]

Yes - in the renewed spirit - by the blood of the Lamb - sitting with Him in heavenly places. Reckoned as righteous (made right, in right standing).  The saving work of the cross.

[jabcat]

Someone has made what may seem in some ways/on the surface to be controversial.  The statement was along the lines of, through the work of the cross and being given faith to believe on Jesus as Savior, the spirit is renewed, new creation, sitting in heavenly places.  While sin is quarantined to the flesh.  It doesn't affect the spiritual standing in Christ Jesus, the blood having been applied.

That view would address Paul struggling with his flesh, while his spirit was already sitting in the heavenlies.  Also, perhaps him saying that it was no longer him that did it (sinned), but the "sin that dwells in me.  For I know that in my flesh dwells no good thing".  A bit over my head for full understanding/grasping, but something inspiring to consider/dwell on/explore.   :2c:

[ed]

That view would address Paul struggling with his flesh, while his spirit was already sitting in the heavenlies.  Also, perhaps him saying that it was no longer him that did it (sinned), but the "sin that dwells in me.  For I know that in my flesh dwells no good thing".  A bit over my head for full understanding/grasping, but something inspiring to consider/dwell on/explore.   :2c:

Rom 7
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.

That was one of my first memory verses that set me free from condemnation.  I grew up in a Baptist church and never could live up the legalistic doctrines about God that were taught there.

As an adolescent I thought wow if the great apostle Paul struggled with sin, then it was ok for me to.

Years later this verse dispels another doctrine.   Total depravity.  IMO, If man is totally depraved then "the will" would not be present with us.  We all have "the will" present with us.  Following "the will" is a spiritual discipline that is often not taught to the mass of Christianity. 

[lomarah]

That view would address Paul struggling with his flesh, while his spirit was already sitting in the heavenlies.  Also, perhaps him saying that it was no longer him that did it (sinned), but the "sin that dwells in me.  For I know that in my flesh dwells no good thing".  A bit over my head for full understanding/grasping, but something inspiring to consider/dwell on/explore.   :2c:

IMO, If man is totally depraved then "the will" would not be present with us. 

Yes amen!

He showed me who we really are once. And it is the exact opposite of something that is totally depraved. Truly we are made in the image of God and we are beautiful. We just don't seem like it right now because we need washing off of all this dirt that clings to us. But truly we are precious and beautiful, made in His image.  :HeartThrob:

[dajomaco]

Imo You know you are in the kingdom of God
when God hears your prayers while he is  still at home.

When you look at the list of things that keep you out of the kingdom of God.
The list was made so that no one would qualify.
The unclean category eliminates everyone.

The only way to be made clean is by the priest Jesus.
You know you have been made clean the second you believe
that Christ's sacrifice was acceptable to God ,
and there was nothing left to do but ENTER.
Start talking to God.



I used to tie the big event and the kingdom of God together.
The big event being The Wedding.
Only people of the kingdom of God will be at the wedding.
God is still at home while all the wedding preparations
are being made here.

Every person who has prayed to God that he help them some how.
God remembers their prayer and sends them an invitation to the wedding.
Of coarse the bride is just completely in Love with Jesus.
This makes God the father content because it is an arranged marriage,
and he picked the bride for his son. 

[CHB]

Someone has made what may seem in some ways/on the surface to be controversial.  The statement was along the lines of, through the work of the cross and being given faith to believe on Jesus as Savior, the spirit is renewed, new creation, sitting in heavenly places.  While sin is quarantined to the flesh.  It doesn't affect the spiritual standing in Christ Jesus, the blood having been applied.

That view would address Paul struggling with his flesh, while his spirit was already sitting in the heavenlies.  Also, perhaps him saying that it was no longer him that did it (sinned), but the "sin that dwells in me.  For I know that in my flesh dwells no good thing".  A bit over my head for full understanding/grasping, but something inspiring to consider/dwell on/explore.   :2c:

I see this as Paul speaking of the flesh and spirit warring together, you know, the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak? If Paul was in Christ or Christ in Paul, he was in the spirit and not the flesh. When paul did things he didn't want to do it was the fleahly part of him warring against the spirit but since Paul was in the spirit or had Christ dwelling in him, the flesh couldn't overcome the spirit because the spirit was more powerful than the flesh that dwells within us. You might fall for a little bit but the spirit always overcomes the flesh in the end.  That is why when all is said and done the spirit is the winner hands down. Just a little observation for me while reading your post

CHB