For this you know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God."
I have an opinion on the question (Can the unclean enter the kingdom of God.)
Read the Chapter below, (the whole chapter)
2 Chronicles 30
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
Celebration of the Passover
30 Then Hezekiah sent word throughout all Israel and Judah, and he also wrote letters to Ephraim and Manasseh to come to the Lord's temple in Jerusalem to observe the Passover of Yahweh, the God of Israel. 2 For the king and his officials and the entire congregation in Jerusalem decided to observe the Passover of the Lord in the second month, 3 because they were not able to observe it at the appropriate time. Not enough of the priests had consecrated themselves and the people hadn't been gathered together in Jerusalem. 4 The proposal pleased the king and the congregation, 5 so they affirmed the proposal and spread the message throughout all Israel, from Beer-sheba to Dan, to come to observe the Passover of Yahweh, the God of Israel in Jerusalem, for they hadn't observed it often,[a] as prescribed.
6 So the couriers went throughout Israel and Judah with letters from the hand of the king and his officials, and according to the king's command, saying, "Israelites, return to Yahweh, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel so that He may return to those of you who remain, who have escaped from the grasp of the kings of Assyria. 7 Don't be like your fathers and your brothers who were unfaithful to Yahweh, the God of their ancestors so that He made them an object of horror as you yourselves see. 8 Don't become obstinate[c] now like your fathers did. Give your allegiance[d] to Yahweh, and come to His sanctuary that He has consecrated forever. Serve the Lord your God so that He may turn His burning anger away from you, 9 for when you return to Yahweh, your brothers and your sons will receive mercy in the presence of their captors and will return to this land. For Yahweh your God is gracious and merciful; He will not turn His face away from you if you return to Him."
10 The couriers traveled from city to city in the land of Ephraim and Manasseh as far as Zebulun, but the inhabitants[e] laughed at them and mocked them. 11 But some from Asher, Manasseh, and Zebulun humbled themselves and came to Jerusalem. 12 Also, the power of God was at work in Judah to unite them[f] to carry out the command of the king and his officials by the word of the Lord.
13 A very large assembly of people was gathered in Jerusalem to observe the Festival of Unleavened Bread in the second month. 14 They proceeded to take away the altars that were in Jerusalem, and they took away the incense altars and threw them into the Kidron Valley. 15 They slaughtered the Passover lamb on the fourteenth day of the second month. The priests and Levites were ashamed, and they consecrated themselves and brought burnt offerings to the Lord's temple. 16 They stood at their prescribed posts, according to the law of Moses, the man of God. The priests sprinkled the blood received from the hand of the Levites, 17 for there were many in the assembly who had not consecrated themselves, and so the Levites were in charge of slaughtering the Passover lambs for every unclean person to consecrate the lambs to the Lord. 18 A large number of the people—many from Ephraim, Manasseh, Issachar, and Zebulun—were ritually unclean, yet they had eaten the Passover contrary to what was written. But Hezekiah had interceded for them, saying, "May the good Lord provide atonement on behalf of 19 whoever sets his whole heart on seeking God, Yahweh, the God of his ancestors, even though not according to the purification rules of the sanctuary." 20 So the Lord heard Hezekiah and healed the people. 21 The Israelites who were present in Jerusalem observed the Festival of Unleavened Bread seven days with great joy, and the Levites and the priests praised the Lord day after day with loud instruments. 22 Then Hezekiah encouraged[g] all the Levites who performed skillfully before the Lord. They ate at the appointed festival for seven days, sacrificing fellowship offerings and giving thanks to Yahweh, the God of their ancestors.
23 The whole congregation decided to observe seven more days, so they observed seven days with joy, 24 for Hezekiah king of Judah contributed 1,000 bulls and 7,000 sheep for the congregation. Also, the officials contributed 1,000 bulls and 10,000 sheep for the congregation, and many priests consecrated themselves. 25 Then the whole assembly of Judah with the priests and Levites, the whole assembly that came from Israel, the foreigners who came from the land of Israel, and those who were living in Judah, rejoiced. 26 There was great rejoicing in Jerusalem, for nothing like this was known since the days of Solomon son of David, the king of Israel.
27 Then the priests and the Levites stood to bless the people, and God heard their voice, and their prayer came into His holy dwelling place in heaven
hey Daj........
the way I look at it,Jesus Christ,as our High Preist...haas all authority and power to present us spotless before the Father. While here on earth
He showed this ability,ordering many unclean spirits out of people..
the water of His word..washes us, and He also girds Himself and washes our feet.
when the gentile beleivers came in...God said..'quit calling unclean what God has cleansed"
1Kings 7;38.....shows ten lavers used in the temple service...a shadow of Jesus Preisthood...we re washed with the water of His word.....
and washed with the blood of the Lamb which purifies.
we become clean through the word He has spoken to us. It is His Great and Holy Honour to make us presentable unto our Father...
He does this,and will do this for all men
:iagree:
Also see the parable of the wedding feast, in Matthew 22:10:
Those officers, going out into the main roads, accordingly collected all they could find, both bad and good; and the wedding was filled with guests. [Ferrar Fenton Version]
I conclude, from this and II Chronicles 30, that the unclean are made clean, [and why not?], for our salvation/sanctification/glorification are not for any virtue we have, lest we should boast, but due to God's good pleasure and lovingkindness.
Interestingly, although Christ expelled a wicked tenant who the owner of the body had unwittingly permitted to live in it, seven more wicked spirits came to live in the body. Clearly, Christ teaches that "sweeping" clean a person does not keep that person clean.
If the owner of the body does not follow the spirit of the teachings of Christ Jesus, such vacancy will be advertised again. In my opinion, it is not enough to have a belief that one is "saved" (or any other belief for that matter) and then carry on in the same way as before, indeed, it is most dangerous - hence the Christ Way was taught by the Master for the guidance and protection of all.
yes,God forbid thaat the spirit of love not dwell there. Less they be a religious self-righteous spirit enter. Proverbs 26;25 though his speech
is charming,do not beleive him,for seven abominaations fill his heart....Prvrbs 6;16 [ mark of the beast] There are six things that God hates
seven that are detestable to Him; haughty eyes[arrogance] a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood,a heart that devises wicked
schemes,feet that are quick to rush to evil,a false wittness who pours out lies,and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.
For this reason Jesus told Pharisee and saducee evil viper offspring...ye traverse land and sea to make one proselyte,and when ye have
made him such,he becomes twice the child of hell.
hate.detest something it is abominable to you..you can't abide there.. that's what happens to many repentant people that desire peace
with God.
I have heard that 666 is really 616 when properly interpreted[don't know] but it also says this takes wisdom...and Proverbs is one of the wisdom
books.
Yes and no. IMO we are all unclean but are then washed clean by the blood of the lamd and reckoned as righteous. :Peace2:
Quote from: ded2daworld on June 08, 2013, 06:44:13 AM
Yes and no. IMO we are all unclean but are then washed clean by the blood of the lamd and reckoned as righteous. :Peace2:
Boom!
Hello Dajomaco,
The short answer is no. But, just as important as the sins listed in the Bible that would disqualify someone from the KOG, so might our attitude:
http://ernestlmartin.com/kingdomofgod-firstresurrection.htm (http://ernestlmartin.com/kingdomofgod-firstresurrection.htm)I hope this helps.
Ken
(http://ernestlmartin.com/images/kogpng.png)
Quote from: dajomaco on June 07, 2013, 11:37:33 PM
For this you know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God."
I have an opinion on the question (Can the unclean enter the kingdom of God.)
Read the Chapter below, (the whole chapter)
2 Chronicles 30
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
Celebration of the Passover
30 Then Hezekiah sent word throughout all Israel and Judah, and he also wrote letters to Ephraim and Manasseh to come to the Lord's temple in Jerusalem to observe the Passover of Yahweh, the God of Israel. 2 For the king and his officials and the entire congregation in Jerusalem decided to observe the Passover of the Lord in the second month, 3 because they were not able to observe it at the appropriate time. Not enough of the priests had consecrated themselves and the people hadn't been gathered together in Jerusalem. 4 The proposal pleased the king and the congregation, 5 so they affirmed the proposal and spread the message throughout all Israel, from Beer-sheba to Dan, to come to observe the Passover of Yahweh, the God of Israel in Jerusalem, for they hadn't observed it often,[a] as prescribed.
6 So the couriers went throughout Israel and Judah with letters from the hand of the king and his officials, and according to the king's command, saying, "Israelites, return to Yahweh, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel so that He may return to those of you who remain, who have escaped from the grasp of the kings of Assyria. 7 Don't be like your fathers and your brothers who were unfaithful to Yahweh, the God of their ancestors so that He made them an object of horror as you yourselves see. 8 Don't become obstinate[c] now like your fathers did. Give your allegiance[d] to Yahweh, and come to His sanctuary that He has consecrated forever. Serve the Lord your God so that He may turn His burning anger away from you, 9 for when you return to Yahweh, your brothers and your sons will receive mercy in the presence of their captors and will return to this land. For Yahweh your God is gracious and merciful; He will not turn His face away from you if you return to Him."
10 The couriers traveled from city to city in the land of Ephraim and Manasseh as far as Zebulun, but the inhabitants[e] laughed at them and mocked them. 11 But some from Asher, Manasseh, and Zebulun humbled themselves and came to Jerusalem. 12 Also, the power of God was at work in Judah to unite them[f] to carry out the command of the king and his officials by the word of the Lord.
13 A very large assembly of people was gathered in Jerusalem to observe the Festival of Unleavened Bread in the second month. 14 They proceeded to take away the altars that were in Jerusalem, and they took away the incense altars and threw them into the Kidron Valley. 15 They slaughtered the Passover lamb on the fourteenth day of the second month. The priests and Levites were ashamed, and they consecrated themselves and brought burnt offerings to the Lord's temple. 16 They stood at their prescribed posts, according to the law of Moses, the man of God. The priests sprinkled the blood received from the hand of the Levites, 17 for there were many in the assembly who had not consecrated themselves, and so the Levites were in charge of slaughtering the Passover lambs for every unclean person to consecrate the lambs to the Lord. 18 A large number of the people—many from Ephraim, Manasseh, Issachar, and Zebulun—were ritually unclean, yet they had eaten the Passover contrary to what was written. But Hezekiah had interceded for them, saying, "May the good Lord provide atonement on behalf of 19 whoever sets his whole heart on seeking God, Yahweh, the God of his ancestors, even though not according to the purification rules of the sanctuary." 20 So the Lord heard Hezekiah and healed the people. 21 The Israelites who were present in Jerusalem observed the Festival of Unleavened Bread seven days with great joy, and the Levites and the priests praised the Lord day after day with loud instruments. 22 Then Hezekiah encouraged[g] all the Levites who performed skillfully before the Lord. They ate at the appointed festival for seven days, sacrificing fellowship offerings and giving thanks to Yahweh, the God of their ancestors.
23 The whole congregation decided to observe seven more days, so they observed seven days with joy, 24 for Hezekiah king of Judah contributed 1,000 bulls and 7,000 sheep for the congregation. Also, the officials contributed 1,000 bulls and 10,000 sheep for the congregation, and many priests consecrated themselves. 25 Then the whole assembly of Judah with the priests and Levites, the whole assembly that came from Israel, the foreigners who came from the land of Israel, and those who were living in Judah, rejoiced. 26 There was great rejoicing in Jerusalem, for nothing like this was known since the days of Solomon son of David, the king of Israel.
27 Then the priests and the Levites stood to bless the people, and God heard their voice, and their prayer came into His holy dwelling place in heaven
Then the whole assembly of Judah with the priests and Levites, the whole assembly that came from Israel, the foreigners who came from the land of Israel, and those who were living in Judah, rejoiced. 26 There was great rejoicing in Jerusalem, for nothing like this was known since the days of Solomon son of David, the king of Israel.
27 Then the priests and the Levites stood to bless the people, and God heard their voice, and their prayer came into His holy dwelling place in heaven
If we look at the biblical definition of unclean.
The person who is unclean is not actually in charge of the getting clean.
He must trust that the priest preformed the appropriate temple ritual properly
Unclean man new that God was pure, and unclean man could not enter the kingdom of God, unclean.
The prove that the priest was successful. Was the naturally wild rejoicing and praising of God as the
Weight of there sin was being lifted off .
The unclean man had entered the kingdom of God.
He entered and went so far in the kingdom, that God could hear his voice (unclean man)
(now cleaned by blood) HIS PRAYERS WHERE HEARD BY GOD WHILE GOD WAS STILL AT HOME.
If an other unclean man, said to himself wow I'd like to get me some of that clean stuff.
He would need to find a priest. He knew he could not do it himself.
As matter of fact he could not help the priest with the sacrifice offering at all.
The priest definitely did not want the unclean to be involved at all .
The same way our priest does not need your help.
For this you know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God."
You can enter the kingdom of God right now.
You will be close enough to God that you'll know he has heard your prayers.
Don't taint the fellow ship by thinking God is waiting for you to do something.
Have faith we are already been made clean.
There was great rejoicing in Jerusalem, for nothing like this was known since the days of Solomon son of David, the king of Israel.
I believe that we all have something clean in us. The Spirit of God. The omnipresent. If the omnipresent is always here with us then we need only look to it to find the kingdom of heaven. The act of looking is an act of washing, cleaning, and cleansing. This makes it an attitude of heart in order to connect with Christ. When we connect we are made clean in the process. No one can take this privileged away from the individual. How are people robbed of the kingdom heaven? Doctrine that states that they can not get in. Faith is what appropriates. Faith in bad doctrine results in a loss of the good things that are readily available to all. "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the world of God."
That is a misunderstood verse. They make "the word of God" to be the Bible rather then the living indwelling word available to all.
.
.
QuoteI believe that we all have something clean in us. The Spirit of God. The omnipresent. If the omnipresent is always here with us then we need only look to it to find the kingdom of heaven. The act of looking is an act of washing, cleaning, and cleansing. This makes it an attitude of heart in order to connect with Christ. When we connect we are made clean in the process. No one can take this privileged away from the individual. How are people robbed of the kingdom heaven? Doctrine that states that they can not get in. Faith is what appropriates. Faith in bad doctrine results in a loss of the good things that are readily available to all. "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the world of God."
That is a misunderstood verse. They make "the word of God" to be the Bible rather then the living indwelling word available to all.
Dear Ed, I appreciate your sentiments.
You note that the "looking" and cleansing of the heart is a "process" and you are involved in it - you are active, you participate. I agree, and it's by the grace of God we can be involved - and it's only dogmatic words that attempt to deny this. I believe that the soul will never be happy unless it feels in some way that it has contributed a little something towards the mighty gifts given through the grace of God - it's just normal to want to contribute something when given abundance.
While much in the Bible is truly inspired (inspirited), plus it contains the sacred records of some of our Lord's life on Earth, I do not see it as infallible, unlike many, but I appreciate their adherence to an ideal because ideals are character-forming and our character is what we take with us when we go - I believe.
However, I think that you are closer to the mark when you say: "They make the 'word of God' to be the Bible rather than the living indwelling word available to all". The indwelling spirit is eternally living and has Eternity ahead whereas the Sacred Record is for an Aeon only.
By "the word within available to all", do you mean Jesus and the Holy/Pure Spirit inside of spiritually reborn believers, washed/cleansed by the blood of the Lamb? Ed, do you believe Jesus is a vital part of that process? It seems you indicated earlier people in all religions have fellowship with God, i.e., that God generally/often "bypasses" Jesus to establish relationship?
If you do mean Jesus, then I agree, He is the Word of God. But IMO, there's often more misunderstood than just the one aspect of this scripture in question, and I believe these things are important to clarify. The scriptures do say Jesus is the Word made flesh; and I believe there is also spoken Word, thought Word, and written Word - many ways God expresses Himself to us.
This may be informative and helpful;
http://tentmaker.org/forum/lounge/does-god-protect-the-written-word-from-human-error/msg155138/#msg155138
The way I see it, we are vessels, pots, made to carry something--
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
--2 Cor 4.
If the vessel is swept clean, and the Holy Spirit does not enter into it, something else will, some other spirit.
This is why the Holy Spirit seals us.
And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
--Eph 4:30
"you are sealed"
72
σφραγίζω
sphragizō
sfrag-id'-zo
From G4973; to stamp (with a signet or private mark) for security or preservation (literally or figuratively); by implication to keep secret, to attest: - (set a, set to) seal up, stop.
There's lots more to say about this cleaning up as others have noted. It's a good study.
Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
Hi all ,
Daj you are clean by the Word spoken to you , you are looking at the written word Law of Moses bro and this law is the knowledge of sin and death
when we mix the two Babylon is in effect we see both laws here
the two laws Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
spoken Word and written word
till the Living Word abides in you working in you to do Gods good pleasure [ Holy Spirit ]
you are spiritual your mind is Christ's, and yet you are still undergoing the body of death , your mortal body is a death trap , whom the Lord delivers you from
Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These [are] the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and [in] the prophets, and [in] the psalms, concerning me.
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Jhn 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Jhn 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Jhn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Jesus Christ is the mediator for us Paul tell us this much
Paul explains in Romans 7 how he learned to seperate himself from sin , no longer I but the sin dwelling in his flesh , your flesh will never be clean to enter the kingdom , there is no good thing in it , God gave it to be dust and the serpents food ,
what Paul did was focus on the things above and fruits of the Spirit , not the focus of fruits of death as the Law of Moses it shows us how we will fail miserably , that is Why Jesus was sent , that is why we have help and a new way , the truth will set you free , Paul was pretty good at being in the Spoirit look at all that was given for us though his obedience to Christ being Christ servant I recommend reading both Romans7 and 8 I used Gods word translation here
only because it makes this alot more clear than the KJV but I like KJV
Moses' Laws Show What Sin Is
THE KNOWLEDGE of sin which is holy good , but not holy perfect , Jesus shows us what is HOLY perfect
7 What should we say, then? Are the laws in Moses' Teachings sinful?
That's unthinkable! In fact, I wouldn't have recognized sin if those laws hadn't shown it to me.
For example, I wouldn't have known that some desires are sinful if Moses' Teachings hadn't said, "Never have wrong desires."
8 But sin took the opportunity provided by this commandment and made me have all kinds of wrong desires. Clearly, without laws sin is dead.
9 At one time I was alive without any laws. But when this commandment came, sin became alive 10 and I died.
I found that the commandment which was intended to bring me life actually brought me death. 11 Sin, taking the opportunity provided by this commandment, deceived me and then killed me.
12 So the laws in Moses' Teachings are holy, and the commandment is holy, right, and good. 13 Now, did something good cause my death? That's unthinkable! Rather, my death was caused by sin so that sin would be recognized for what it is.
Through a commandment sin became more sinful than ever.
God's Standards Are at War with Sin's Standards
14 I know that God's standards in Moses' Teachings are spiritual,
but I have a corrupt nature, sold as a slave to sin.
15 I don't realize what I'm doing. I don't do what I want to do. Instead,
I do what I hate.
16 I don't do what I want to do, but I agree that God's standards are good.
17 So I am no longer the one who is doing the things I hate, but sin that lives in me is doing them.
18 I know that nothing good lives in me; that is, nothing good lives in my corrupt nature. Although I have the desire to do what is right, I don't do it.
19 I don't do the good I want to do. Instead, I do the evil that I don't want to do. 20 Now, when I do what I don't want to do, I am no longer the one who is doing it. Sin that lives in me is doing it.
21 So I've discovered this truth: Evil is present with me even when I want to do what God's standards say is good.
22 I take pleasure in God's standards in my inner being.
23 However, I see a different standard at work throughout my body.
It is at war with the standards my mind sets and tries to take me captive to sin's standards which still exist throughout my body.
24 What a miserable person I am! Who will rescue me from my dying body?
25 I thank God that our Lord Jesus Christ rescues me!
So I am obedient to God's standards with my mind, but I am obedient to sin's standards with my corrupt nature.
and here we know the old covenant is decaying and disappearing as the new one takes full effect :dsunny:
For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: Hbr 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Hbr 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Hbr 8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away
I hope this is helpful as it was to me to understand it
peace in Jesus
Very nice post rosie.
Quote from: jabcat on June 09, 2013, 05:25:02 AM
Very nice post rosie.
Blessing Bro J ,
the Lord has been awesome the past couple a weeks lots of revelation , those things that were hidden
I am so glad you can see them too it means alot :girlheart:
Amen Rose, awesome post, thanks for sharing!
Quote from: lomarah on June 09, 2013, 05:58:50 AM
Amen Rose, awesome post, thanks for sharing!
:HeartThrob:
we should share when the Lord gives it , and we can recieve it sis! God is good to us all , I am thankful for those whom share what the Lord gives them , I read that scripture many times and this time a lighting bolt ha ! :dsunny:
Quote from: roseredRom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
We are now living in the realm of the Spirit by the washing of the Word and by the [life-giving] Spirit of God [the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus].
We have passed over from death to life.
So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus. 2 And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death. 3 The law of Moses was unable to save us because of the weakness of our sinful nature. So God did what the law could not do. He sent his own Son in a body like the bodies we sinners have. And in that body God declared an end to sin's control over us by giving his Son as a sacrifice for our sins.
4 He did this so that the just requirement of the law would be fully satisfied for us, who no longer follow our sinful nature but instead
follow the Spirit.--Rom 8
11 The Spirit of God, who raised Jesus from the dead, lives in you. And just as God raised Christ Jesus from the dead, he will give life to your mortal bodies by this same Spirit living within you.--Rom 8
But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, has
made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved.
--Eph 2:4-5
Yes - in the renewed spirit - by the blood of the Lamb - sitting with Him in heavenly places. Reckoned as righteous (made right, in right standing). The saving work of the cross.
Someone has made what may seem in some ways/on the surface to be controversial. The statement was along the lines of, through the work of the cross and being given faith to believe on Jesus as Savior, the spirit is renewed, new creation, sitting in heavenly places. While sin is quarantined to the flesh. It doesn't affect the spiritual standing in Christ Jesus, the blood having been applied.
That view would address Paul struggling with his flesh, while his spirit was already sitting in the heavenlies. Also, perhaps him saying that it was no longer him that did it (sinned), but the "sin that dwells in me. For I know that in my flesh dwells no good thing". A bit over my head for full understanding/grasping, but something inspiring to consider/dwell on/explore. :2c:
Quote from: jabcat on June 09, 2013, 06:52:40 AM
That view would address Paul struggling with his flesh, while his spirit was already sitting in the heavenlies. Also, perhaps him saying that it was no longer him that did it (sinned), but the "sin that dwells in me. For I know that in my flesh dwells no good thing". A bit over my head for full understanding/grasping, but something inspiring to consider/dwell on/explore. :2c:
Rom 7
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.
That was one of my first memory verses that set me free from condemnation. I grew up in a Baptist church and never could live up the legalistic doctrines about God that were taught there.
As an adolescent I thought wow if the great apostle Paul struggled with sin, then it was ok for me to.
Years later this verse dispels another doctrine. Total depravity. IMO, If man is totally depraved then "the will" would not be present with us. We all have "the will" present with us. Following "the will" is a spiritual discipline that is often not taught to the mass of Christianity.
Quote from: ed on June 09, 2013, 05:21:13 PM
Quote from: jabcat on June 09, 2013, 06:52:40 AM
That view would address Paul struggling with his flesh, while his spirit was already sitting in the heavenlies. Also, perhaps him saying that it was no longer him that did it (sinned), but the "sin that dwells in me. For I know that in my flesh dwells no good thing". A bit over my head for full understanding/grasping, but something inspiring to consider/dwell on/explore. :2c:
IMO, If man is totally depraved then "the will" would not be present with us.
Yes amen!
He showed me who we really are once. And it is the exact opposite of something that is totally depraved. Truly we are made in the image of God and we are beautiful. We just don't seem like it right now because we need washing off of all this dirt that clings to us. But truly we are precious and beautiful, made in His image. :HeartThrob:
Imo You know you are in the kingdom of God
when God hears your prayers while he is still at home.
When you look at the list of things that keep you out of the kingdom of God.
The list was made so that no one would qualify.
The unclean category eliminates everyone.
The only way to be made clean is by the priest Jesus.
You know you have been made clean the second you believe
that Christ's sacrifice was acceptable to God ,
and there was nothing left to do but ENTER.
Start talking to God.
I used to tie the big event and the kingdom of God together.
The big event being The Wedding.
Only people of the kingdom of God will be at the wedding.
God is still at home while all the wedding preparations
are being made here.
Every person who has prayed to God that he help them some how.
God remembers their prayer and sends them an invitation to the wedding.
Of coarse the bride is just completely in Love with Jesus.
This makes God the father content because it is an arranged marriage,
and he picked the bride for his son.
Quote from: jabcat on June 09, 2013, 06:52:40 AM
Someone has made what may seem in some ways/on the surface to be controversial. The statement was along the lines of, through the work of the cross and being given faith to believe on Jesus as Savior, the spirit is renewed, new creation, sitting in heavenly places. While sin is quarantined to the flesh. It doesn't affect the spiritual standing in Christ Jesus, the blood having been applied.
That view would address Paul struggling with his flesh, while his spirit was already sitting in the heavenlies. Also, perhaps him saying that it was no longer him that did it (sinned), but the "sin that dwells in me. For I know that in my flesh dwells no good thing". A bit over my head for full understanding/grasping, but something inspiring to consider/dwell on/explore. :2c:
I see this as Paul speaking of the flesh and spirit warring together, you know, the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak? If Paul was in Christ or Christ in Paul, he was in the spirit and not the flesh. When paul did things he didn't want to do it was the fleahly part of him warring against the spirit but since Paul was in the spirit or had Christ dwelling in him, the flesh couldn't overcome the spirit because the spirit was more powerful than the flesh that dwells within us. You might fall for a little bit but the spirit always overcomes the flesh in the end. That is why when all is said and done the spirit is the winner hands down. Just a little observation for me while reading your post
CHB
Quote from: CHB on June 09, 2013, 10:20:21 PM
Quote from: jabcat on June 09, 2013, 06:52:40 AM
Someone has made what may seem in some ways/on the surface to be controversial. The statement was along the lines of, through the work of the cross and being given faith to believe on Jesus as Savior, the spirit is renewed, new creation, sitting in heavenly places. While sin is quarantined to the flesh. It doesn't affect the spiritual standing in Christ Jesus, the blood having been applied.
That view would address Paul struggling with his flesh, while his spirit was already sitting in the heavenlies. Also, perhaps him saying that it was no longer him that did it (sinned), but the "sin that dwells in me. For I know that in my flesh dwells no good thing". A bit over my head for full understanding/grasping, but something inspiring to consider/dwell on/explore. :2c:
I see this as Paul speaking of the flesh and spirit warring together, you know, the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak? If Paul was in Christ or Christ in Paul, he was in the spirit and not the flesh. When paul did things he didn't want to do it was the fleahly part of him warring against the spirit but since Paul was in the spirit or had Christ dwelling in him, the flesh couldn't overcome the spirit because the spirit was more powerful than the flesh that dwells within us. You might fall for a little bit but the spirit always overcomes the flesh in the end. That is why when all is said and done the spirit is the winner hands down. Just a little observation for me while reading your post
CHB
Yes , the flesh gets old corrupts decays, diseased , sick can never do what it once could in its prime , for a limited time sooner or later and has an end
where the Spirit never ends
It helps to have the indwelt Holy Spirit. The Spirit quickens the flesh, makes it alive. Maybe someone could meditate on that one and explain it. Before we are given the Spirit of God, we are dead in our sins.
Once you were dead because of your disobedience and your many sins. Eph 2:1
But if the Spirit of him that has raised up Jesus from among the dead dwell in you, he that has raised up Christ from among the dead shall quicken your mortal bodies also on account of his Spirit which dwells in you. [Rom 8:11]
Romans 8:2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death
:thumbsup: you are correct Molly the kingdom of God is within you :girlheart:
Quote from: jabcat on June 09, 2013, 06:52:40 AM
Someone has made what may seem in some ways/on the surface to be controversial. The statement was along the lines of, through the work of the cross and being given faith to believe on Jesus as Savior, the spirit is renewed, new creation, sitting in heavenly places. While sin is quarantined to the flesh. It doesn't affect the spiritual standing in Christ Jesus, the blood having been applied.
That view would address Paul struggling with his flesh, while his spirit was already sitting in the heavenlies. Also, perhaps him saying that it was no longer him that did it (sinned), but the "sin that dwells in me. For I know that in my flesh dwells no good thing". A bit over my head for full understanding/grasping, but something inspiring to consider/dwell on/explore. :2c:
I think it is an excellent clarification. The idea of sin being quarantined in the flesh is absolutely right IMO. The "body of the sins of the flesh" having been "buried with Him in baptism" as Peter wrote "the answer of a clear conscience".
In baptism believer were publicly buried, a funeral for the old man who was crucified in Christ- penalty paid, death. Looking back to that blessed event, there is no condemnation as the believer testifies, "All the sins I ever committed or ever will were committed by that same person- that old person, who has been judged, sentence executed through faith in Christ".
That is why paul ends his soliloque on the struggle (sinin the flesh versus the mind that desires to obey)by saying, "Thank God for Jesus Christ....Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who walk according to the spirit and not according to the flesh".
If we are not standing at the grave trying to dig that old man up, the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus has already done away with and overcome Him. Our conscience remains clear.
If we take a dive back into the flesh, all we need, to be restored, is confession and repentence- the desire of the heart to be righteous even when the ability may not yet be there- God is forgiving, patient, and willing to work and to wait on our behalf for the victory (would that we were all so gracious with each other) :o)
:2thumbs:
I had to loll it around in my mind/heart/spirit for awhile before it "took better hold", but I'm liking it more and more. :bigGrin:
:thumbsup: wonderful John and James
remined me also of the footwashing , you all clean all but your feet , we are to refine To reduce to a pure state; purify. 2. To remove by purifying. the understanding that Jesus teaches us to do for one another
but Jesus set the example of washing one anothers feet
Jhn 13:10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash [his] feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all. [Judas heart was occupied by satan]
Jhn 13:14 If I then, [your] Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
Lexicon Results Strong's G4228 - pous 1) a foot, both of men or beast
a) often in the orient, one put his foot on vanquished
b) of disciples listening to their teacher's instruction are said to be at his feet
so sorry guys I am simple ,slow and persistant
How does the Lord judge no man ? we all do judge after the flesh
but some can discern the spirits in mens hearts
Jesus says judge not lest you be judged , sounds to me as if we do bring judgement on our ourselves
Jhn 5:22 For the Father judges no man, but has committed all judgment unto the Son
Jhn 8:15 You judge after the flesh; I judge no man.
Quote from: rosered on June 09, 2013, 11:26:24 PM
:thumbsup: you are correct Molly the kingdom of God is within you :girlheart:
:thumbsup:
And, amongst you. Whenever two or three are gathered in his name, he is there.
Yea that whole judgment thing can be quite a quagmire. There are serious translation issues there, since krino, diakrino, krisis, etc are all translated "judgment", "condemnation" without rhyme or reason.
I dont remember which is which right now and even the lexicons are divided on them but one means to "pass sentence"(found guilty), one means to "stand before a tribunal"(as yet neither guilty or innocent) another means "do discern"(objectively examine or identify).
SO, again it seems we cannot get the balance from English translations easily on this, but...
Jesus said, "I judge no man, the word I speak judges". He saidthat the one who does not believe is "condemned already"-death in Adam is the condemnation for all who do not believe- we dont need to condemn them- they are already condemned to death in Adam and walking in it.
We do need to "discern", to objectively, without ourselves invoking condemnation, examine and appraise the spirits and works of men as to whether they are in the spirit of of the flesh- again, "the word of the Lord is sharper than any two edged sword, dividing asunder souls and spirit.....making manifest the thoughts and intentions of the heart." Also, "entrust yourselves to those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to dicern the difference between good and evil(spirit and flesh).'
How do we know if we are in the flesh or in the spirit? Thats where the Holy Spirit comes in. I have seen people(me included) to the 'right thing' for the wrong reason.
I have seen people do wrong things with good intentions. How do we know these things? By the spirit as we stand in the light of the (heavenly)assembly-IMO the clearest cleanest discernment is available. wherever tow or three of us gather "in His name"(in His person and character), for example.....
"If you find a brother or sister in a fault, those who are spiritual among you restore such a one in a spirit of meekness, considering your own selves lest you should stumble".
When callled upon to discern- it is for the deliverance/healing of the being brought to the light, and anyone called upon to engage in sucha personal administration of the grace of God MUST DO SO IN THE MOST EXTREME REVERENCE. Thes are our offerings to God and if they are mixed with selfish ambition or the desire for recognition or power over people or some sense of personal fulfillment apart from just pleasing God and loving the brethren- then the discerner becomes the discerned, the judge becomes the judged, etc.
I think Jesus really did a pretty simple job of explaining the difference, but translations and religious prejudices hav mucked it up.
If you stand "in the spirit" you are not the discerner/judge. If your discernment/judgment is sanctified by death(dying to any selfish impulses, in complete humility) it is the word that judges as we take a completely "hands off" appraoch to obedience to God in such things.
That is why, IMO, James says, brethren, be not many teachers because as such you will incur stricter judgment.
Jesus did not judge, the words He spoke judged, because He only spoke what He heard from His Father. He disconnected his "self" from the words and walked in "meekness" as one who hears and obeys.
"God has given me the tongue of the discipled so that I might speak a word in season to him that is weary"
A discipled tongue speaks from a discipled heart(from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks) for the purpose of healing. when fire comes out of such a mouth it is not so as to appear a spiritual giant or to declare ones authority, it is to separate the wheat from the chaff, reveal the grain which is to be gathered and thoroughly purge the threshing floor(soul, imo) of the chaff)------
SO THAT IT CAN BE GATHEREDINTO THE BARN.
Praise God!!!!!! We alllll goin to da barn sooner or later ;o)
QuoteSO, again it seems we cannot get the balance from English translations easily on this, but...
Jesus said, "I judge no man, the word I speak judges". He saidthat the one who does not believe is "condemned already"-death in Adam is the condemnation for all who do not believe- we dont need to condemn them- they are already condemned to death in Adam and walking in it.
yes indeed , the Truth judges us all , most are afraid to tell anyone the truth [Jesus Christ is the Truth ] for fear of seeming self righteous , when said in Love its for the benefit of all concerned
Blessed is he who is not offened in Me [ the Truth ]
the truth pricks your conscience , Pauls experience
was that trying to justify himself and go against the truth , but we are all eventually humbled by the truth when the Holy Spirit pricks our conscience , Paul spoke alot on the concience and how the Holy Spirit works wonders in that place , its a torment at first till you realize how can you be angry when the truth that is supposed to set you free has bound you up till you repent and change your mind over it , that what happens to me anyways and it helps for the better in the end
like chastising or correcting error of motives and actions
Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: [it is]
hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Act 26:14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? [it is
] hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Jesuse said, "You are entirely clean because of the word that I have spoken to you"
The Word is the seed.
The blood is in the seed of the Father.
Those who have heard His voice are all clean.
"If you continue(abide, dwell) in my word you will know the truth and the truth will set you free"
If we keep listening we stay clean.
"If you walk in the light as He is in the light you will have fellowship(friendship, union and communion, harmony) with one another and the blood of Jesus will cleanse you from all unrighteousness."
The testimony that we abide in His word is not our "correct doctrine"- it is our degree of fellowship.
"They all as one heart and soul"
"Great grace was upon them all and the word of the Lord grew and multiplied among them and the Lord added daily to their number the ones apointed for deliverance."
God will add to that which displays the beauty of His love and the Witness will fall upon the acceptable offering- wherever tow or three gather in His name, His love, His spirit.
"This is my prayer, that you may be one even as I and My Father are one, that I am in the Father and the Father in me and I in you- that your Joy be full."
The kingdom of heaven is about- FIRST AND FOREMOST- attitudes, not doctrines.
Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven, blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
TODAY if you hear His voice, harden not your heart...........
Some never leave the wilderness, but Today, while their is Hope- let us enter His rest.
Yes , definitely its our relationship with the Living God that keeps us in Him
He Loved us first , before we even know how to Love God first , if the Sprit of God is not in you your very works are dead works and you never knew Him
the doctrines of men abuse those seaching , turning many away in Jesus name ! its appauling
Tts 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny [him], being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.
you cannot ever love God first , if the Love of God is not in you in the FIRST place ..
it does take Jesus Christ [His mind , mind of Christ ] obedience to the very will of God to turn anyone around
the Lord Jesus interceeding for us is the same today as it was for simon [hearing ] its His prayers of faith and strength that sustains us all , than you can love the brethren in the same strength and faith that blesses all , the right attitude !! amen , you said that right , its alll about your intent and motive in your heart , Christ put everyone before himself a true servers heart being the Son of God , its not about being high and mighty , but humbled and serving one another in the Very Love of God [Spirit &Truth] those are the living works of the Living God in you
And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired [to have] you, that he may sift [you] as wheat:
Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
Have you ever wondered why the Lord spoke their name twice ? here we see Simon , Simon
and also Saul , Saul and Martha Martha , Jacob , Jacob , abraham , abraham , Samuel , Samuel
as long as both minds of the natural/carnal and spiritual/ mind of Christ co exist we can hear His Voice calling our name though the darkness and in the light as a servant and a son
Yes Lord !
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].
And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call [thee] by thy name, [am] the God of Israel.
Isa 45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
Isa 45:5 I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else, [there is] no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that [there is] none beside me. I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else. Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].
Isa 45:8 ¶ Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.
Isa 45:9 ¶ Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! [Let] the potsherd [strive] with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?
Isa 45:10 Woe unto him that saith unto [his] father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?
Isa 45:11 ¶ Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
Isa 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, [even] my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
Isa 45:13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.
I am so sorry if you think I push doctrines and remain in the wilderness John
the only docrtine to have is Gods that comes are dew drops from heaven on our flesh /grass, this is what Jesus spoke
rosered...
in no way was I posting to you :o) I dont think that of you at all. I was REALLY just posting to the original thought, concerning being clean- and entering and abiding in the kingdom. Love in Christ, John
Quote from: rosered on June 11, 2013, 02:02:17 AM
the only docrtine to have is Gods that comes are dew drops from heaven on our flesh /grass, this is what Jesus spoke
LOVE IT! :HeartThrob:
This is a beautiful way to see it.
Is this from a particular scripture verse or Psalm?
Quote from: jbertonbounds on June 11, 2013, 05:07:48 PM
Quote from: rosered on June 11, 2013, 02:02:17 AM
the only docrtine to have is Gods that comes are dew drops from heaven on our flesh /grass, this is what Jesus spoke
LOVE IT! :HeartThrob:
This is a beautiful way to see it.
Is this from a particular scripture verse or Psalm?
Hi Jbert ,
Yes ,it is from two verses , if you can see that all flesh is as grass
and here Deu 32:2
My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb,
and as the showers upon the grass:
Isa 40:6 The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry?
All flesh [is] grass, and all the goodliness thereof [is] as the flower of the field:
1Pe 1:24
For all flesh [is] as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
when I said Jesus spoke it, Jesus say this is not his doctrine , but the Fathers whom sent Him Jhn 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said,
My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. God bless
Thanks Rose. :thumbsup:
Quote from: jbertonbounds on June 11, 2013, 10:22:40 PM
Thanks Rose. :thumbsup:
Thank you Jbert , for even asking God bless you and yours :girlheart:
"If you find a brother or sister in a fault, those who are spiritual among you restore such a one in a spirit of meekness, considering your own selves lest you should stumble".
"If you find a brother or sister in a fault, those who are spiritual among you restore such a one in a spirit of meekness, considering your own selves lest you should stumble".
I find this passage interesting in the Clean versus Unclean scenario .
We find a brother or sister in a fault, (clean or unclean?)
those who are spiritual (clean?)
restore such a one in a spirit of meekness,
considering your own selves lest you should stumble". (make yourself unclean?)
IMO we are made clean by FAITH in the work of Jesus on the cross.
To restore a brother or sister we must help them to believe that their fault does not separate
them from Christ. The warning at the end of the verse is that we not see a fault,
that is not covered by faith in the blood of Christ
Quote from: dajomaco on June 11, 2013, 11:49:08 PM
"If you find a brother or sister in a fault, those who are spiritual among you restore such a one in a spirit of meekness, considering your own selves lest you should stumble".
"If you find a brother or sister in a fault, those who are spiritual among you restore such a one in a spirit of meekness, considering your own selves lest you should stumble".
I find this passage interesting in the Clean versus Unclean scenario .
We find a brother or sister in a fault, (clean or unclean?)
those who are spiritual (clean?)
restore such a one in a spirit of meekness,
considering your own selves lest you should stumble". (make yourself unclean?)
IMO we are made clean by FAITH in the work of Jesus on the cross.
To restore a brother or sister we must help them to believe that their fault does not separate
them from Christ. The warning at the end of the verse is that we not see a fault,
that is not covered by faith in the blood of Christ
:HeartThrob: You know Brother daj , I believe the truth ! we know Jesus by , the written , Spoken and Living WORD , it does make us free from sin and death we are not of this world , we are His !!! :dsunny:
Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if
ye had known me,
ye should have known my Father also. Jhn 8:20 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.
Jhn 8:21 ¶ Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
Jhn 8:22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.
Jhn 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above:
ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
Jhn 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.
Jhn 8:25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even [the same]
that I said unto you from the beginning.
Jhn 8:26
I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.
Jhn 8:27 They
understood not that he spake to them of the Father.
Jhn 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am [he], and [that] I do nothing of myself;
but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. Jhn 8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.
Jhn 8:30 As he spake these words,
many believed on him. Jhn 8:31 ¶ Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him,
If ye continue in my word, [then] are ye my disciples indeed; Jhn 8:32 And
ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. :girlheart:
Quote from: dajomaco on June 11, 2013, 11:49:08 PM
"If you find a brother or sister in a fault, those who are spiritual among you restore such a one in a spirit of meekness, considering your own selves lest you should stumble".
"If you find a brother or sister in a fault, those who are spiritual among you restore such a one in a spirit of meekness, considering your own selves lest you should stumble".
I find this passage interesting in the Clean versus Unclean scenario .
We find a brother or sister in a fault, (clean or unclean?)
those who are spiritual (clean?)
restore such a one in a spirit of meekness,
considering your own selves lest you should stumble". (make yourself unclean?)
IMO we are made clean by FAITH in the work of Jesus on the cross.
To restore a brother or sister we must help them to believe that their fault does not separate
them from Christ. The warning at the end of the verse is that we not see a fault,
that is not covered by faith in the blood of Christ
Sorta looks like one must walk in meekness to be spiritual or clean eh! :o)
Quote from: eaglesway on June 12, 2013, 07:59:17 AM
Sorta looks like one must walk in meekness to be spiritual or clean eh! :o)
Absolutely! That, plus walking in faith in/on Jesus, and living self-LESS-ly. :2c: :dsunny:
Quote from: jbertonbounds on June 12, 2013, 06:56:02 PM
Quote from: eaglesway on June 12, 2013, 07:59:17 AM
Sorta looks like one must walk in meekness to be spiritual or clean eh! :o)
Absolutely! That, plus walking in faith in/on Jesus, and living self-LESS-ly. :2c: :dsunny:
Amen to both :HeartThrob:
This reminded me of 1Peter 3 17 that jumped out once to me, the God would will it that we all suffer for Christ sake rather than self :thumbsup:
Finally, [be ye] all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, [be] pitiful, [be] courteous:[/b][/color]
1Pe 3:9
Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing. 1Pe 3:10
For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:
1Pe 3:11 Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it. 1Pe 3:12
For the eyes of the Lord [are] over the righteous, and his ears [are open] unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord [is] against them that do evil. 1Pe 3:13 ¶ And who [is] he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good?
1Pe 3:14
But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy [are ye]: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled; 1Pe 3:15
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear: 1Pe 3:16
Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
1Pe 3:17
For [it is] better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing. 1Pe 3:18 ¶
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
1Pe 3:22 Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.