The Anti Christ

[jbertonbounds]

Yes, the people who once "loved" us now hate us. True love endures all things however... God's love. This is one of the major eye openers as to the true state of things in the churches.... they claim to teach love but have no true love in them for the most part. They do not realize that they are a laughingstock to society... walking in contradiction and hypocrisy... known for preaching "love" but being the most judgemental people of all and most often hating those who disagree with their doctrines. I know firsthand because not so long ago I was one of the worst of them! They are sincerely blinded, believing that what they are doing is right. I pray for them and hope and long for the day when God will open their eyes as He opened mine. It is a horrible place to be, under the doctrine of hellfire and stuck in the pit of condemning those who disagree with you, living in constant fear of the only one who is truly able to love and save you, never able to truly turn to Him with your whole heart because you cannot truly trust Him. Looking forward to the day when He brings us all out from under the bondage of the lies of babylon!!! And thanking and praising Him for opening my eyes to the truth of His love for all, thank you Father!

A profound truth. 
Great post overall!
Thanks.

[marie glen]

I think separating the sheep from the goats (at His return) is not personal judgment, like expected at teh White Throne Judgment, or what is commonly called Judgment 'Day'.. but is the same gathering as the one to Armegeddon.. All things have been designed/overseen by God, yet man's been allowed to make some choices (not for reconciliation or not reconciliation, but other choices, which is what is meant by saying man has a will or 'free' will.. even though it too is imperfect, so not really FREEwill) -- the separation when Jesus returns with angels and with fire.. yet I believe the fire is of man's doing.. and is the conflagration of Armegeddon.. the goat nations of the planet will be the ones whose armies will surround Jerusalem.. i think it's a temporary and earthly judgment.. and just may include all nations.. (the way things are progressing)

[marie glen]

...and very shortly afterwards is the 1st resurrection, if not concurrent.. with the last conflagration being the bowls of the final consequences of mankind's wandering from God.. As the bowls go 'down' (very quickly/together?) the saints/believers 'go up'/meet the Lord in the air, as He is returning.. It's my understanding there will be two classes of folks during the millennium.. those of the 1st resurrection and survivors of Armageddon, etc.

[eaglesway]

This is the separation of the sheep and the goats, here-



31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37 "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40 "The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the olam fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44 "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45 "He will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

46 "Then they will go away to olam punishment, but the righteous to olam life."


Seems pretty individual to me. :o)

[Molly]

Two things going on there, I think, Eaglesway.

Nations obeying God.

And, individuals obeying God.

Certainly nations have policies that include feeding the poor, coming to the aid of those who need help, showing mercy, and so forth, as much as do individual men--maybe moreso because they are more powerful than individual men.

There will be nations after the millenium and the nations will be judged at the return of Christ.

His royal priesthood will be taken out of the nations [as fully spiritual and immortal beings, the sons of God] and Christ and his priesthood will rule and reign the nations [of human men] in the millenium.

:2c:

--from a literalist

[eaglesway]

All the nations will be gathered together and the people will be separated one from another- according to their works, literally :o)  :2c:

[Molly]

think separating the sheep from the goats (at His return) is not personal judgment, like expected at teh White Throne Judgment, or what is commonly called Judgment 'Day'.. but is the same gathering as the one to Armegeddon.. All things have been designed/overseen by God, yet man's been allowed to make some choices (not for reconciliation or not reconciliation, but other choices, which is what is meant by saying man has a will or 'free' will.. even though it too is imperfect, so not really FREEwill) -- the separation when Jesus returns with angels and with fire.. yet I believe the fire is of man's doing.. and is the conflagration of Armegeddon.. the goat nations of the planet will be the ones whose armies will surround Jerusalem.. i think it's a temporary and earthly judgment.. and just may include all nations.. (the way things are progressing)

..and very shortly afterwards is the 1st resurrection, if not concurrent.. with the last conflagration being the bowls of the final consequences of mankind's wandering from God.. As the bowls go 'down' (very quickly/together?) the saints/believers 'go up'/meet the Lord in the air, as He is returning.. It's my understanding there will be two classes of folks during the millennium.. those of the 1st resurrection and survivors of Armageddon, etc.

   :thumbsup:    I could back this all up with scripture, if I had the time.

[Molly]

All the nations will be gathered together and the people will be separated one from another- according to their works, literally :o)  :2c:

Yeah, it depends what translation you look at, the greek sounds more like the nations are being separated one from another.

Let me just say, I don't see that passage so much as an event as I see it as an explantion of why he is doing what he is doing at his return.

Because we know those who inherit the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world, will be snatched up [rapturo] into the air to meet the Lord at his return and, as marie said, at the same time the bowls of wrath will be poured on the [goat] nations of the earth.  So that description really doesn't fit this one in terms of events that are happening, but the concept is the same.

:2c:

[eaglesway]

Actually you may want to look at the word ethne(nations), interchangeably translated, heathen, pagans, Gentiles, peoples, nations, throughout the NT (163 usages). IMO, The greek leans neither way, it is a matter of interpretation, not translation- as to whether He is separating individuals out of the "nations" into His holy nation- the sheepfold. Remember, after they are separated, they go into aionian kolassis or aionian zoe in Matthew 25:46- nations do not go into aionian zoe or aionian kolassis, that is for individuals according to their lives in the flesh and their response to God and man.

The inclusion of the word "nations" with "sheep" is your interpretation. It may be correct, but I don't think so. He will gather the nations, the masses of people, and He will "gather out of His kingdom all that offends" separating the sheep- those who walked in compassion( I was sick and you visited me), from the goats- those who walked in head knowledge (Lord, Lord, didnt we prophesy an do many mighty works in your name).

This similar to the wheat and the tares. The wheat bows down as harvest approaches, full of fruitfulness and ready to be buried(seed stock) or eaten (bread). Tares just stand tall and stay green- thats how the servants see the difference as time goes on during the planting season- they cannot be separated until they are CUT DOWN- i.e.- the end of the age/death- where all will awaken(every eye will see Him even those who pierced Him)- some to rejoicing and some to hiding their faces from the Lamb and the One who sits on the throne)ancient of days).

In other words, ethne(nations, peoples, Gentiles, heathen, pagans) is a word for masses of common people used in many different ways and it is the context of all Jesus spoke of sheep and goats that bears the most weight as the scriptures interpret themselves. :2c:

Gold, silver, precious stone......wood hay stubble.

The only saints who will live through the millenial reign are the overcomers of the ages previous "the Lord knows those who are His", "If by any means I might attain to the "out-resurrection(exanastasis) from amongst the dead"- everyone else will be raised for the great white throne and judged according to the things written in the books.

[Molly]

Eaglesway, do you see humans and immortal sons of God co-existing on earth in the next age?

Nations does mean gentiles, but in this age, the gentiles also become the Christians.

And, the age will last until the fulness of the gentiles is achieved.

But, not all Gentiles are Christians.

[eaglesway]

Yes I see this age as appointed for the fulness of the Gentiles to come in- not all Gentiles, but those appointed to salvation- which is inclusion in the One New Man(Be saved from this perverse generatio-(Acts 3). I see the millienial reign as a time when the first resurrection saints, who IMO are the overcomers(faithful saints, gold silver precious stone builders of the last two ages) will be a priesthood extending the kingdom of God and the word of the Lord to all people as the water covers the sea, removing the veil that covers the nations, continuing the restoration of all things- the administration working out through the completion of times(Eph 1:9-11).

As far as I can see there are at least two more ages after that and I believe their are overlaps between the ages, and that they are seen through a glass darkly, so I like to discuss them, but I am not saying I know all about it :o)

In Zechariah there is a vision of an arch being built- "the capstone will be set in place wuth shouts of "grace to it, grace to it"!

I see the Hebrews as one leg of the arch, the Christian age gentile church(tru universal invisible scattered many membered body) as the other leg of it.

As this age comes to a close I believe th arch will rise and be visible, like the messenger in Rev 10 (clothed with the clouds, head in heaven, rainbow upon head), thier will be a wave o martyrdom like never before(Lord, How long!- Wait until the rest of your brethren are beheaded for the faith) and Jesus will return, actually, in power and glory at the head of 10,000s times 10.000s of angels and resurrected saints and take the throne of earth and make it the throne of heaven and earth.

Thats why I think we are a bit further from the end than most who believe in a historical, physical return of Jesus.

The millenial age I see as being more murky, a few clues given but no full picture available at the present time :o) (least not to me LOLOL)