Tentmaker Forum

I was wondering what you guys think about the anti-Christ. I was reading a book by Joel Richardson called, "The Islamic Antichrist". This fella has done his homework and spends most of his time in the middle east. Shia muslims (particularly in Iran) are waiting for the return of their saviour, known as "The Mahdi or 12th Imman" His characteristics in the book seem to run in concord with the descriptors of the anti-Christ in the Bible.

This is supposed to take place when the world is in turmoil. The Mahdi is to lead his armies and slaughter anyone who refuses Allah, to eventually turn the world into a new muslim Caliphate.

The book is worth a read

Jock

Hello Jock,

The Antichrist will arise at the end-times, which we are clearly not even close to. Specific events must occur before that time period can even be identified. Check out the two lists towards the bottom of:

http://ernestlmartin.com/ekklesia.htm (http://ernestlmartin.com/ekklesia.htm)

For more information on what the Bible has to say on the Antichrist, I suggest these articles:

http://www.googlesyndicatedsearch.com/u/ASK?sitesearch=askelm.com&q=ANTICHRIST&sa=Google+Search (http://www.googlesyndicatedsearch.com/u/ASK?sitesearch=askelm.com&q=ANTICHRIST&sa=Google+Search)

Sorry, but I haven't read the book you mentioned.

Ken

I just caught him speak on this channel : http://www.jewishvoice.ca/media/television-show/  most recent video.  What he says seems to ring some truth.  we will find out one day won't we. 

Thanks guys for your input. Ken, you say we are a long ways off because of certain events occurring. While I think you're right, "events" are occurring pretty fast these days and the players seem to be in place. Much of prophecy is a mystery to me though. Oh well   :dontknow:

Jock

Damascus is certainly a ruinous heap.

I heard that Obama just sold 400 M1 Abrahms tank to Morsi in Egypt. The Muslim brotherhood are itching to destroy Israel. This is sheer hypocrisy on Obama's part when Susan Rice is busy railing on Russia and Iran for selling arms to Syria.

What next?

Sorry, it was 200 tanks and some f16 fighter jets. An army all by itself.

This is a man named "Walid Shoebat" who once was a terrorist in the PLO. Now he speaks for Christ and has a great knowledge of Islam and of course, the Bible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O30UNBrj5s

Quote from: Jock on April 30, 2013, 11:41:20 AM
This is a man named "Walid Shoebat" who once was a terrorist in the PLO. Now he speaks for Christ and has a great knowledge of Islam and of course, the Bible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O30UNBrj5s

I love Walid.  I think God has raised him up for these end times.  Who else could understand the passages of the Bible that he explains to Christians?  I talk a lot about these things over on the prophecy thread.   People ask, why are you reading the news?  I'm not, I'm reading the Bible.   The Caliphate is being raised up [brought back to life] right before our very eyes.  Who does the man think those arab countries are going to use their new war toys, that we are giving them, against?  Who is Egypt's 'enemy'?  We are marching towards the war of armaggedon and nobody is even noticing it. 

Richardson is good, too.  Their Messiah is the Mahdi who bears a startling resemblance to our Antichrist.  If you like fiction, I recommend Joel Rosenberg, too.  His newest book, the latest in a series, is Countdown to Damascus.  Great book.

Cool, Molly

:iagree:

Molly, I live in the UK but as I peer out over the landscape I see what appears to be Obama actually weakening America and strengthening other countries. Am I wrong?

Jock

Mind you, how much do we believe on the media?

Quote from: Jock on April 30, 2013, 02:55:26 PM
Molly, I live in the UK but as I peer out over the landscape I see what appears to be Obama actually weakening America and strengthening other countries. Am I wrong?

Jock

I believe there are books written about that very subject.

But, I would trust what the Holy Spirit is showing you.  He will guide you into all truth.

Today's headlines


Tsarnaev family received $100G in benefits

The Tsarnaev family, including the suspected terrorists and their parents, benefited from more than $100,000 in taxpayer-funded assistance — a bonanza ranging from cash and food stamps to Section 8 housing from 2002 to 2012, the Herald has learned.

"The breadth of the benefits the family was receiving was stunning," said a person with knowledge of documents handed over to a legislative committee today.



http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2013/04/tsarnaev_family_received_100g_in_benefits




Welfare Jihad: Islamist Calls Taxpayers "Slaves", Encourages Muslims to Go On Welfare


It's at places like these that the Red and Green alliance between Socialism and Islamism really comes together. The left wants to redistribute wealth from the natives. The Islamists want to oppress their Christian and Jewish slaves and take their money.

"We are on Jihad Seekers Allowance, We take the Jizya (protection money paid to Muslims by non-Muslims) which is ours anyway."

The normal situation is to take money from the Kafir (non-Muslim), isn't it? So this is normal situation."

Anjem Choudary has been recorded telling followers to claim benefits as part of their struggle to bring sharia law to the UK.


The 45-year-old former lawyer added: 'We are going to take England — the Muslims are coming. Brussels is 30 per cent, 40 per cent Muslim in Amsterdam. Bradford is 17 per cent Muslim. These people are like a tsunami going across Europe."


http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/welfare-jihad-islamist-calls-taxpayers-slaves-encourages-muslims-to-go-on-welfare/

Quote from: Jock on April 30, 2013, 02:55:26 PM
Molly, I live in the UK but as I peer out over the landscape I see what appears to be Obama actually weakening America and strengthening other countries. Am I wrong?

Jock

No, you're, imo, not wrong.. also, the office he's in (Obama, that is) is one specifically pointed out by Rev 13:13, the office which released fire from the sky to earth in the sight of men, which persuaded them to rebuild the world body(beast, verses 1-10) which had expired when its head didn't sign on after all (I'm mixing scripture and history). See if you can see it (most in mainstream don't I think) rev 13:13 (pasted)...
"He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men." People think of the Anti-Christ as only a specific person, but this verse shows it as an office, he is at one time in, then, imo, steps into the prime seat of the world body/beast of the days, which "gives breath" (authority) to this world body/image with (in final days) a circle of ten crowns/seats?
"And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak..." (13:15)

Quote from: Molly on April 30, 2013, 05:24:38 PM
Today's headlines


Tsarnaev family received $100G in benefits

The Tsarnaev family, including the suspected terrorists and their parents, benefited from more than $100,000 in taxpayer-funded assistance — a bonanza ranging from cash and food stamps to Section 8 housing from 2002 to 2012, the Herald has learned.

"The breadth of the benefits the family was receiving was stunning," said a person with knowledge of documents handed over to a legislative committee today.



http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2013/04/tsarnaev_family_received_100g_in_benefits




Welfare Jihad: Islamist Calls Taxpayers "Slaves", Encourages Muslims to Go On Welfare


It's at places like these that the Red and Green alliance between Socialism and Islamism really comes together. The left wants to redistribute wealth from the natives. The Islamists want to oppress their Christian and Jewish slaves and take their money.

"We are on Jihad Seekers Allowance, We take the Jizya (protection money paid to Muslims by non-Muslims) which is ours anyway."

The normal situation is to take money from the Kafir (non-Muslim), isn't it? So this is normal situation."

Anjem Choudary has been recorded telling followers to claim benefits as part of their struggle to bring sharia law to the UK.


The 45-year-old former lawyer added: 'We are going to take England — the Muslims are coming. Brussels is 30 per cent, 40 per cent Muslim in Amsterdam. Bradford is 17 per cent Muslim. These people are like a tsunami going across Europe."


http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/welfare-jihad-islamist-calls-taxpayers-slaves-encourages-muslims-to-go-on-welfare/

...you said it Molly  :iagree: :gthumbsup:
it's plain to see western civilization (which was turned on its ear via the false prophet/teaching) is going the way of socialism.. it's also apparent for those who look, to see Islam steadily infiltrating the world body of the un, and also within the nations as you pointed out..

with socialism thinking to harness Islam

as you wrote: "It's at places like these that the Red and Green alliance between Socialism and Islamism really comes together. The left wants to redistribute wealth from the natives. The Islamists want to oppress their Christian and Jewish slaves and take their money."

and the thinking to harness Islam will result in rev 20:4,b (Daniel 12:11)

Oh! I know Anjem Chowdry and his stain on British society. You are right about welfare too

Here is a link by Pat Condell who has a word or two for Anjem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=winu_C_X5mw :laugh:

Caution. Pat Condell is quite forward, a straight talker but I like his views Muslims, Middle East and the Palestinians.

Quote from: Jock on April 30, 2013, 06:17:54 PM
Oh! I know Anjem Chowdry and his stain on British society. You are right about welfare too

Here is a link by Pat Condell who has a word or two for Anjem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=winu_C_X5mw :laugh:

Pat Condell has an amazing brain.

"dhimmis-in-waiting in the multicultural appeasement lobby..."


"the Third World pressure group that we call the united nations..."

:laugh:



This one's old but it's a classic--The crooked Judges of Amsterdam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96ZUZ9CPZII

"...when the truth is no defense, there is no defense, and the law has no anchor."

Quote from: MarieNo, you're, imo, not wrong.. also, the office he's in (Obama, that is) is one specifically pointed out by Rev 13:13, the office which released fire from the sky to earth in the sight of men, which persuaded them to rebuild the world body(beast, verses 1-10) which had expired when its head didn't sign on after all (I'm mixing scripture and history). See if you can see it (most in mainstream don't I think) rev 13:13 (pasted)...
"He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men." People think of the Anti-Christ as only a specific person, but this verse shows it as an office, he is at one time in, then, imo, steps into the prime seat of the world body/beast of the days, which "gives breath" (authority) to this world body/image with (in final days) a circle of ten crowns/seats?
"And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak..." (13:15)

Marie, I think I've finally figured out what you have been saying over on the prophecy thread.

It's very interesting.   I think, though, that at some point, Satan will actually indwell a man, because he chooses to take the place of and imitate Christ who had the fulness of the godhead bodily.

Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

--2 Thess 2:3

Quoteand the thinking to harness Islam will result in rev 20:4,b (Daniel 12:11)

...and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

--Rev 20:4



11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
--Dan 12

I believe that we will also be persecuted, not only by Islam but by traditional evangelical Christianity. After all, we, the heretics are part of the great deception, NOT!

I got a sneak preview of this when Rob Bell went public with "Love Wins" also, Carlton Pearson, Bishop John Spong and others. I've seen it with my own sister who is evangelical. Might as well figure on the gay lobby too.

I think there will also be some wonderful things happening in the Spirit, too. We have some great things to share with those who will listen.  :winkgrin:

The baby is crowning, the woman is groaning, the dragon is licking his lips, but the man-child will crush his head.

"You will wound his heel, but he shall crush your head"

"Shall a nation be born in a day?"

"Shall the Lord bring to bear and not bring to birth?"

"In that day, the Lord will pierce Leviathan the twisting fleeing serpent with the sword of His mouth. In that day, sing of it, a vineyard, the Lord waters it every day....."

"The word of the Lord is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, bone and marrow, making manifest the thoughts and intentions of the heart. All things are open to Him with whom we have to do."

"And his eyes were as flames of fire and a sharp two-edged sword came out of His mouth"

"Nothing is hidden that will not be brought to light."

"Until we all attain unto a mature man, unto to the measure of the stature of the fulness of the son of God. Henceforth we will no longer be tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine, by the scheming and craftiness of men.....but spoeaking the truth in love we will grow up in all things into the Head."


"That He might lead many sons unto glory"

Hello Jock,

You are right, events are speeding up. But, the Temple must be rebuilt (and they don't even know the correct location - see my post on the subject, below) and, it is to be financed by the "King of Persia" (Iran). What are the chances of that happening anytime soon?

The progression of events is more a reflection on the Illuminati's desire to get back on track and establish a One World Government (which we understand as the rule of the Antichrist in the end-times). They are already decades behind by their previous timetable. What they don't understand is that God has His timetable and He is the one who is really in charge.

Learn more about the Illuminati here: http://ernestlmartin.com/index5.htm#illuminati
(http://ernestlmartin.com/index5.htm#illuminati)
Also check out my other post on Daniel's 10 Kingdoms (also below), as drawn up by the Illuminati.

Thanks.

Ken

Quote from: Jock on April 30, 2013, 09:12:56 AM
Thanks guys for your input. Ken, you say we are a long ways off because of certain events occurring. While I think you're right, "events" are occurring pretty fast these days and the players seem to be in place. Much of prophecy is a mystery to me though. Oh well   :dontknow:

Jock

Damascus is certainly a ruinous heap.

Wow, Ken. That is a lot of reading and so much of it rings true. I think you are right about the Illuminati and I'm sure they are knowingly or even unwittingly preparing the stage for the evil empire of the anti-Christ, however, our God reigns and always will. I hope to be here for the 1000 year reign of Christ rather than be taking a dirt nap.

Thanks brother.

Hello Jock,

Now you are bringing up another great question. Will we be there for the 1,000 year reign of Christ? This is the big question that all of us need to be asking ourselves. Check out this article for the answer:

http://ernestlmartin.com/kingdomofgod-firstresurrection.htm (http://ernestlmartin.com/kingdomofgod-firstresurrection.htm)

Ken

Ken, this has a whiff of the old "don't smoke, drink, cuss, spit or chew or hang around with those who do" By that, I don't mean that we can just go out robbing or partying but this seems to subtract from the liberty that Christ has afforded us. We are free!

Jock

It also has a whiff of "grace has afforded us the opportunity to walk as Christ walked, if we will seek it".

There is a balance to all things,but the kingdom of God calls out,

"Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.  And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect"

God is not judging us, but He is calling us always in, deeper in, to the fellowship and discipleship of His son.:o)

Yes, Paul spoke these things at a certain time to a certain group of people. It is difficult for young Christians who are struggling with issues and if those verses are spoken out of turn, they can become an instrument of condemnation. That was my point.

I hope that the Lord will shape us all in love to be with Christ during the millennium, otherwise it's an extended dirt nap.

Blessings :dunno

Hello Jock,

Absolutely. You are free to do whatever you want. But obtaining entrance into the Kingdom of God requires a learning attitude. Christ said few would be accepted.

So it would appear that we have a choice. We can learn the lessons of life and be leaders in the Kingdom of God. Or, we can be like most Christians and simply ignore the lessons of life.

Either way, we are saved.

Ken

Quote from: Jock on May 01, 2013, 07:01:44 PM
Ken, this has a whiff of the old "don't smoke, drink, cuss, spit or chew or hang around with those who do" By that, I don't mean that we can just go out robbing or partying but this seems to subtract from the liberty that Christ has afforded us. We are free!

Jock

Ken

I, personally have a couple of issues that I struggle with but I'm not in rebellion to God. It's a struggle but the Lord hasn't cast me away. However, the list that Paul gives would pertain to me some years ago, as Paul said "you were all guilty"

" There are none righteous, no, not one" Apart from Christ  :Peace2:

Anyways

Enough said

Jock

Quote from: Jock on May 01, 2013, 09:18:24 PM
Yes, Paul spoke these things at a certain time to a certain group of people. It is difficult for young Christians who are struggling with issues and if those verses are spoken out of turn, they can become an instrument of condemnation. That was my point.

I hope that the Lord will shape us all in love to be with Christ during the millennium, otherwise it's an extended dirt nap.

Blessings :dunno

Exactly right Jock, and we MUST all receive and rest in the fact that we are accepted in the beloved- forgiven as we stumble or fall -before we can begin to receive the strength to walk as disciples and makers of disciples.

It is always difficult to yoke the message of mercy with the call to victorious living- but they are yoked, and must stay so, for neither is effective without the other.

What I think the Lord wants us to understand is that He does not want us to overcome just to fulfill some arbitrary standard of righteousness. He wants us to OVERFLOW WITH THE LIFE OF GOD- so that we will shine, and that includes being merciful, compassionate with the weak and encouraging to the struggling disciple- and that perhaps ABOVE ALL. Yet, if we do not see that God HAS made a way to live in victory, and that HE IS ROOTING FOR US- we may fail to seek it, or seeking it, not recieve it "by grace through faith" and wind up thrown back into works based religion, saddled with condemnation and bound in failure.

It is a beautiful struggle we are in, learning that grace is not just the forgiveness of our sins, but also the key to victory over them :o)

Ken and Eaglesway, thank you for your posts and I appreciate both of your hearts. My heart was not in the right condition concerning this. After all these years, I still smoke and there are a couple of other things. Forgive me for my bull headedness.

Sincerely

Jock

Another link for Pat Condell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1PnMWCOeH4

Quote from: Jock on May 02, 2013, 12:44:09 PM
Another link for Pat Condell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1PnMWCOeH4

As smart as he is, it's a shame that Pat Condell, along with just about everybody else these days, doesn't understand that the United States of America was founded on Christian principles by Christians.  Everything we love about this country comes right out of the Bible, and directly from the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.   It is God's kingdom that our founders were interested in establishing on earth.

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. 
Mat 6:33




The Word of God on Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness




"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."



--The Unanimous Declaration of the
Thirteen United States of America




The Founding Fathers thought life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness were their unalienable rights. Since that day in 1776, Americans have embraced these rights, claimed them, and pursued them.

In the United States,we encourage people to pursue the path they think will best allow them to fully achieve these rights. Hundreds of different theories exist on the best way to get there.

The Bible gives us some insight on the issue.

Let's see what it has to say.



LIFE


"he said to them, 'Take to heart all the words I have solemnly declared to you this day, so that you may command your children to obey carefully all the words of this law. They are not just idle words for you—they are your life. By them you will live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to possess.'"
Deuteronomy 32:46,47

Why did Moses refer to the Word of God as "your life"? Did he mean the Israelites would physically die if they did not obey the commands of God? Was he referring to spiritual life and death?

Consider the context. Moses is about to die, physically. He has "finished writing in a book the words of this law from beginning to end." (Deuteronomy 31:24) He just finished teaching them the words to the Song of Moses. The Song of Moses declares the work of God. What Moses has seen as he led the people of Israel out of Egypt and through the desert for the past 40 years. Moses is giving them a historical reminder of the past 4 decades from God's perspective.

Now he is telling them these "are not just idle words for you -- they are your life." Moses is telling them to remember the LORD. Remember who He is and what He has done. Moses tells them to live your life as God wants you to.

Now rewind back to the beginning of Deuteronomy. In Chapter 5, Moses introduces the Ten Commandments, the beginning of the law. The same law Moses wrote "from beginning to end" in Chapter 31.

After giving them the Ten Commandments, Moses pauses to see how they will be received. The Israelites respond by telling Moses, "Go near and listen to all that the LORD our God says. Then tell us whatever the Lord our God tells you. We will listen and obey." (Deuteronomy 5:27)

Moses does. He goes near to God, listens and writes it all down for the Israelites "from beginning to end." But before he does, Moses tells them "The LORD heard you when you spoke to me and the LORD said to me, I have heard what this people said to you. Everything they said was good. Oh, that their hearts would be inclined to fear me and keep all my commands always, so that it might go well with them and their children for ever!" (Deuteronomy 5:28,29)

I think this is what Moses was referring back to in Deuteronomy 32. He was reminding the Israelites that following all the laws of the LORD "from the beginning to the end" would result in abundant life. Not merely a physical existence, but "that it might go well with them and their children."

The LORD our God intends for life to "go well" for us. Not by the world's standards, not even by our own standards, but by His standards.

There are a lot of things in the law of the LORD requiring discipline and hard work. It was not always easy for the Israelites, but it was always best.

The same is true today. If I want to have the abundant life, I need to follow the commands of God. It's not always easy to "pray continually" or "give thanks in everything" or "rejoice always." But it's best and will ultimately result in living the abundant life God has planned for me.

Remember, "Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'" (Matthew 4:4)

There is more to life than food.

Words from the mouth of God are as important as the physical food.

Words from the mouth of God result in life.



LIBERTY


"To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, 'If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.'"
John 8:31,32

In America, we think of freedom as the freedom to chose. I can chose who I want to vote for,. I can chose what kind of work I want to do. I can chose what I want to do in my spare time. We think of that as freedom.

Jesus tells us freedom comes from knowing the truth. Most people would probably agree. The more knowledge we have, the better decisions we can make about how to exercise our freedoms. However, the choices we make have to be based on the truth.

People want the freedom to chose what they eat, drink, smoke, snort and ingest. They want the freedom to look a certain way, act a certain way, and think a certain way. They believe they are doing what is best for them based on the truth they know.

But what if the "truth" they know is wrong? What if it's an out and out lie? Then they end up with results they don't want. They made their decisions on incorrect "truth." Jesus says He can solve that problem for us.

Jesus says if I follow His teachings then I will learn the truth. I can't learn it though academic study. I actually have to take some action based on those teachings to experience freedom.

For instance, I can understand in my head Jesus Christ died for my sins and as long as I accept His free gift of eternal life, I will spend eternity in heaven with God. I can intellectually accept this truth. I can pray a prayer or make a confession of faith. But if I continue to try to "do good things" in order to earn my way into heaven, I will not experience the freedom of the good news of Jesus Christ.

Once I rest entirely in the finished work and payment of Jesus Christ, I can experience the freedom that comes from the truth. Now I can "do good things" because I am thankful to God for what He has already done. I'm no longer trying to earn my way into heaven. My position there is secure. I can focus on God and not "doing good things."

For 17 years of my life I was hostage to Satan. I had to do what he wanted me to do. I did not have another choice. Some people say they "do their own thing." They claim to follow neither God, nor Satan. I would contend they are deceiving themselves.

Matthew 25:33 says "He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left." It doesn't say "He will put the sheep on his right hand, the goats on his left, and those who did their own thing can chose where they want to go." I don't think there is really "your own thing." "My own thing" is a clever disguise by Satan . He has convinced me that some idea he planted in my mind long ago is now really "my own thing."

Remember, "the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it—he will be blessed in what he does." (James 1:25).

Doing the perfect law of God gives freedom.

Doing the perfect law of God results in blessing from God.

Liberty is freedom.

Freedom comes from knowing truth.

The truth comes from the practical application of the teachings of Jesus Christ.

There is no other way to be truly and completely free.

PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS


The precepts of the LORD are right, giving joy to the heart. The commands of the LORD are radiant, giving light to the eyes.
Psalm 19:8

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary defines happiness as "a state of well-being and contentment: joy."

I'm choosing to use this definition for my discussion of the pursuit of happiness. Unfortunately, I don't think most people think of happiness as "a state of well-being" or "joy." They think of happiness as an emotion or a feeling. The dictionary definition includes no mention of emotion or feeling. It's a state.

As such, it's a choice. We can chose joy. That's why 1 Thessalonians 5:16 says "be joyful always." Paul recognizes joy as a choice, not a feeling. A feeling is a response. A choice is an act of the will. I can chose by an act of the will to rejoice or to be joyful regardless of the circumstance.

Happiness is often a feeling in response to favorable circumstances. If things work out the way I want, then I'm happy. If things don't work out the way I want then I might feel sad or mad. This is an incorrect view of happiness and joy.

Happiness and joy are a choice. I can choose to be happy, no matter what happens to me. I can rejoice when awful circumstance come my way because I am confident that God knows what's best for me.

David says "The precepts of the LORD are right, giving joy to the heart." (Psalm 19:8) Precepts is another word for the LORD's commands. As is laws, statutes, decrees, ways, promises, truth, and words.

David says the Word of the LORD gives joy to my heart. If I want to truly pursue happiness and joy, I need to pursue understanding the Word of God. I can only truly understand the Word of the LORD when I apply it to my life situations. I must act based on it.

Remember, Jesus said, "if you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love. I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete." (John 15:10,11)

Obey the commands of Jesus and your joy will be complete.




THE PLAN

If you want to gain an appreciation for the truth about achieving life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, invest considerable time learning and understanding Psalm 119.

I once heard a speaker claim every verse in Psalm 119, all 176 referenced the Word of God. So I sat down with my Bible and checked to see if what he said was true. I found two verses I thought might not have a reference to the Word of God. It may depend on the translation I used.

I'll let you make your own judgment. You can use what ever translation you like and see what you find. Maybe you will find the same two I did. Maybe you won't find any. Maybe you will find more. Regardless of how many verses you find that don't refer to the Word of God, you will find that nearly all 176 verses do contain a reference to God's word.

Laws, statutes, precepts, commands, decrees, ways, promises, truth, words. There's lots of ways to tell God you appreciate what He says and David used all of these. Nearly 176 times.

Add one verse from Psalm 119 to your quiet time each day. Meditate on that verse often through out the day. Memorize it if you are so inclined. At the end of six months you will have worked your way through all 176 verses.

When you are done. Start over. Do it again for six more months. At the end of a year, you will have worked your way through Psalm 119 twice. A year of meditation in Psalm 119 will leave you with a greater appreciation for the entire Word of God.

A greater appreciation for the Word of God that results in a greater investment of time in the Word of God will result in the fulfillment of your rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

http://www.practical-discipleship.com/word-of-god-life-liberty-pursuit-of-happiness.html

Well, Molly

It appears that I pricked a patriotic nerve in you. I don't think Pat Condell was trying to offend Americans but more speaking about the state that America finds itself in now. Will it go the way of Europe? I think the globalists have slavery in mind, beware.

Quote from: Jock on May 02, 2013, 05:40:44 PM
Well, Molly

It appears that I pricked a patriotic nerve in you. I don't think Pat Condell was trying to offend Americans but more speaking about the state that America finds itself in now. Will it go the way of Europe? I think the globalists have slavery in mind, beware.

OH, no.  Don't misunderstand me.  Pat Condell usually gets it right--everything, that is, except his atheism.   He amazes me how right he often gets it.   I just wish he knew, really knew, my friend Jesus.  But, maybe, on some level, he does.

I was just making a general comment.

Yes, I'd love to see Pat come to the Lord. I'm sorry if I offended you Molly   :sigh:

Jock

Quote from: Jock on May 02, 2013, 06:06:08 PM
Yes, I'd love to see Pat come to the Lord. I'm sorry if I offended you Molly   :sigh:

Jock

You didn't offend me.  Just trying to clarify what I was doing.  That little paper I quoted from was a gift to me from God through you, so I decided to share it.   Don't ask me how these things work lol.   :friendstu:

It is God's kingdom that our founders were interested in establishing on earth.

It is God's kingdom that our founders were interested in establishing on earth.


If the founding fathers of U.S.A. Imagined they could establish the Kingdom of
God in America .The origins of that thought are anti Christ.
Pride in being an American is the strong hold of Satan.

The Kingdom of God, has an economy based on and in Grace.
The grace of God through Christ rules the Kingdom of God.

Quote from: dajomaco on May 02, 2013, 06:41:53 PM
It is God's kingdom that our founders were interested in establishing on earth.

It is God's kingdom that our founders were interested in establishing on earth.


If the founding fathers of U.S.A. Imagined they could establish the Kingdom of
God in America .The origins of that thought are anti Christ.
Pride in being an American is the strong hold of Satan.

The Kingdom of God, has an economy based on and in Grace.
The grace of God through Christ rules the Kingdom of God.

That's why you're a Canadian, Daj, and still have allegiance to a Queen.



In 1776, 98% of the colonists were Protestant, 1.8% were Catholic and 0.2% were Jewish. Many of the Patriots that fashioned our independence were committed Christians. Secularists have attempted to obscure these facts and Christians have neglected them. Did you know that the published battle cry of the American Revolution was "No King But King Jesus."

Of the founders who met in Philadelphia at the Constitutional Convention, 50 were unquestionably Christian, maybe more as documented by Dr. M.E. Bradford of the University of Dallas in his book, "A Worthy Company."

Samuel Adams, who saw himself as the "last of the Puritans" and is often called "the Father of the American Revolution," said that free citizens could learn of their rights in the Bible. "These [rights] may be best understood by reading and carefully studying the institutes of the great Law Giver and Head of the Christian Church, which are to be found clearly written and promulgated in the New Testament." In 1776, as the Declaration of Independence was being signed, Adams declared "We have this day restored the Sovereign to whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven, and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His kingdom come."

Patrick Henry, a noted Christian patriot, best known for his speech before the Virginia House of Burgesses, "Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death," recognized the tremendous contribution Christianity made to the founding of America. "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not be religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here."

John Witherspoon, the only clergyman to sign the Declaration of Independence, was president of the College of New Jersey, known today as Princeton. Witherspoon helped to shape the thinking of many key Americans, including James Madison, who was studying for the ministry. Historian John Eidsmoe wrote that "John Witherspoon is best described as the man who shaped the men who shaped America." Although Witherspoon did not attend the Constitutional Convention, "his influence was multiplied many times over by those who spoke as well by what was said."

George Washington was a vestryman in good standing in the Episcopal Church. In 1891 a twenty-four page manuscript "Daily Sacrifices," written in Washington's own hand, was found among his papers. A sample pray from Washington's book read "O most glorious God, in Jesus Christ my merciful and loving Father, I acknowledge and confess my guilt, in the weak and imperfect performance of the duties of this day. I have called on thee for pardon and forgiveness of sin, but so coldly and carelessly, that my prayers are become my sin and stand in need of pardon."

At Washington's inauguration in 1789, he got down on his knees and kissed the Bible and then led the entire Senate and House of Representatives to an Episcopal Church for a two hour worship service. In Washington's farewell address he wrote that "of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths. . ..And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."



More at

http://www.franklincountyvapatriots.com/2012/08/19/secularism-robs-america-of-our-christian-history/

Hello Jock,

Indeed, you are free to do anything you want - and you will be saved!

But, attaining acceptance into the Kingdom of God to be a leader is an entirely different ball game.  :thumbsup:

Ken

Quote from: Jock on May 01, 2013, 07:01:44 PM
Ken, this has a whiff of the old "don't smoke, drink, cuss, spit or chew or hang around with those who do" By that, I don't mean that we can just go out robbing or partying but this seems to subtract from the liberty that Christ has afforded us. We are free!

Jock

In 1776, as the Declaration of Independence was being signed, Adams declared "We have this day restored the Sovereign to whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven, and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His kingdom
come."

The finished work of Jesus the Christ.

The reconciling of each and every individual to the Creature God.

It does not matter how many John Adams make the declaration that they have restored the Sovereign.

Jesus has restored our relationship with our Father and we as individuals
through the Grace of God through Jesus, have the opportunity to enter into that restored relationship .Any time Any where.

To surmise that God would prefer one individual over another in this regard is
historically hilarious.

Did Sam Adams get it right?


In 1776, as the Declaration of Independence was being signed, Adams declared "We have this day restored the Sovereign to whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven, and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His kingdom come."




His Holy Church


The Church, the ekklesia

The word 'church' in the New Testament is translated from the Greek word 'ekklesia' which comes from two words 'ek' meaning 'out' and 'kaleo' meaning to 'call.' An ekklesia or 'calling out' was not just an assembly. The words agora and paneguris as well as heorte, koinon, thiasos, sunagoge and sunago can all mean an assembly. The word ekklesia was a political term, not a religious term. Jesus was the King and the Bible used the term ekklesia for a good reason. In classical Greek "ekklesia" meant "an assembly of citizens summoned by the crier, the legislative assembly."1

In Israel the the government assembly, like that of the early Roman Senate, had no power to make law. They were originally composed of the elders of each family group through a network of electors which chose titular representatives. By the time of Christ both the Senate of Rome and the Sanhedrin of Judea had become bodies of legislative rulers exercising authority over the people. They had become a corporate body of "lawmakers" ruling the people through vast bureaucratic systems under a central ruling office of executive power.

Since, the authority of the State in Israel was originally in the hands of the elders of each family the people did not usually gather together to overthrow the corruption of government, since the people had learned to govern themselves. The heads of every household were the princes of Israel. The heads of each family group, which was a true government of the people, for the people, and by the people, under the God of Heaven were free as long as they remained faithful to God's law.


There was, at first, no King in Israel and the original Sanhedrin mentioned in Numbers 11:16 was to stand as a sort of overseer of truth serving the will of God by serving the congregation of the people in righteousness. They were truly titular leaders who served the public and God under the foundational laws of the government, the Ten Commandments. But eventually the voice of the people sought a ruler who could exercise authority and who appointed officers over the people from the top down making new laws of control and oppression. The need for an ekklesia steadily grew again as the people and their governments became more corrupt.

When the Greek city states found their governments had become too corrupt and oppressive, they would call for an ekklesia, an assembly outside the civil authority of the city. If enough people came out and refused to accept the existing centralized civil authority, that government would collapse. Non participation has been a successful and peaceful means to free mankind from oppressive civil authority throughout history.

Like the walk out strikes instituted by Gandhi in hope of freeing his people from oppression of colonization, the act of calling the people out could be a very effective method of obtaining freedom through nonviolence. Gandhi did not only encourage worker strikes, but also practical methods to free society from the need of the corporate benefits and its resulting oppressive civil state. Moses had done the same in Egypt when he taught the people how to live without the exercising authority and benefits of the Pharaoh while still maintaining a viable, cohesive and productive society.

Jesus' procession into Jerusalem was a call for the people to stand against a corrupt oppressive government by offering them a legitimate government that operated differently than Herod the Great. John the Baptist had preached the kingdom of heaven at hand,2 which was nothing less than a government operating by freewill offerings,3 voluntary charitable participation4 and the perfect law of liberty.5 Jesus preached the same method of self government and proclaimed that right for all who would remain faithful to Him. It was a powerful and non violent movement of the people, by the people, and for the people to change the course of history by changing the hearts and minds of men, by altering their relationship with governments of the gentiles with their leaders who called themselves benefactors but who exercised authority.6

The use of the word Church was a poor choice in place of the Greek ekklesia but what men often mean unto evil God turns to good. That word Church has its origin in the meaning of lordship which may be accurate from a certain point of view.

The ekklesia or Church was founded and established by Jesus Christ, Yahshua, almost 2000 years ago. It was a government established by the anointed King and appointed to His "little flock" to look after His Kingdom. Jesus was the rightful king, the highest son of David, proclaimed by many of the people as the Anointed. The trial before the Sanhedrin was an attempt to impeach Him and therefore end His appointed government. The Pharisees had given the ultimate right to choose who should be king of God's kingdom to the Romans back in the days of Pompey. [8]

[8] In 66 BC, two brothers, Hyrcanus II and Aristobulus II, had begun to battle for the power of the king. Aristobulus appealed to the world of Rome, and a multi national military force was sent as peace keepers.
Hide X | http://www.hisholychurch.net/news/articles/kingdom.php

Luke 22:29 "And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;"

Jesus was recognized as the king by the existing world government when Pontius Pilate nailed his official proclamation of Christ's kingdom to the cross, which was sealed for all time in the blood of an innocent man. Jesus and His little flock of followers, the called out [ekklesia], were persecuted by the apostate church of that day who abandoned the house of David proclaiming they had no king but Caesar. [9]

[9] John 19:15 "But they cried out, Away with [him], away with [him], crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar."
Hide X | http://www.hisholychurch.net/news/articles/kingdom.php

At Pentecost thousands of Jews, citizens of Judea, and others were baptized into that government by the appointed followers of the proclaimed and recognized king. All who became members of that kingdom of Heaven were cast out7 of the existing system of benefits offered through the Corban of the Pharisees and began to live a new life according to the precepts of God's government, by faith, hope and charity, and the perfect law of liberty.

God is the same, man is the same, sin is the same. Abraham was called out and eventually brought out many souls. Moses was called back to Egypt, assisted the people through the famines, teaching them the ways of God. He and Israel were cast out of Egypt but had to learn the ways of liberty under God. The people returned to sin with their golden calf and the Levites were called out to become the church in the wilderness. [10]

[10] Acts 7:38 "This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and [with] our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:"
Hide X | http://www.hisholychurch.net/news/articles/kingdom.php

Are we turning away from God's ways and back to the sin of Cain?

The good news of the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth has been shared with the world. His ekklesia was persecuted. Its chief executive officer is the Holy Spirit, its King is Jesus and its Ruling Judge is YHWH, God the Father. YaHWeH has given all power and authority to Jesus, Yahshua, who in turn has sent us the Holy Spirit to comfort us in our journey toward the kingdom of God.

Salvation is returning to the Character of the Father like the Son. It is self-sacrifice, service and obedience that we must get right.

What is not the CHURCH?
There are a lot of things the Church is not but at least: It is not established by anyone but Jesus. It is not to hold lordship of one over the other. It is not to go under the authority of others nor lead men into bondage where some men will rule over mankind. It is not to scatter the flock but bring them together in charity and love. It is to serve the people so that they do not have to apply or pray to other fathers of the earth for gifts, gratuities and benefits that would bring the people back into the bondage of Egypt and make the word of God to non effect. The Church is servants of Christ to preach the kingdom, feed His flock under the perfect law of liberty.

Who can define His Holy Church?

CHURCH "In its most general sense, the religious society founded and established by Jesus Christ, to receive, preserve, and propagate his doctrines and ordinances."

"A body or community of Christians, united under one form of government by the profession of one faith, and the observance of the same rituals and ceremonies." Black's Law Dictionary 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th eds.

How do we get into this government of Jesus Christ, this kingdom of Heaven on Earth? Must we die to get into the Kingdom of Heaven?

He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err. (Mark 12:27)

What and where is the key to the Kingdom of Heaven?

"And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my ekklesia (make my coming out); and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." (Matthew 16:17-19)

What is the form of His government? How does Heaven run its government, its ekklesia, here on earth?

"But Jesus called them [unto him], and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many." (Matthew 20:25-28)

Are you in a government which exercises dominion over you? If you are, then you are not in a government established by Jesus the Christ and the form of your government is not Christian.

Let every man remain subject to his superior authority; but should you go under authority in exchange for benefits and gratuities?

"All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body [is] not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body. And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power. Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make [them] the members of an harlot? God forbid." (1 Corinthians 6:12-14)

Have you sold the sweat of your brow and gone under the authority and power of another?

Have you sold your land in exchange for gifts and benefits?

"Behold, we [are] servants this day, and [for] the land that thou gavest unto our fathers to eat the fruit thereof and the good thereof, behold, we [are] servants in it:" Nehemiah 9:36

And because of all this we make a sure covenant, and write it; and our princes, Levites, and priests, seal unto it. Nehemiah 9:38

Have we taken the mark of the beast?

"And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. ..." (Revelation 22:12-18)

http://www.hisholychurch.net/ekklesia.php

Born in Zion.  His Holy Church



His foundation is in the holy mountains.

2 The Lord loveth the gates of Zion more than all the dwellings of Jacob.

3 Glorious things are spoken of thee, O city of God. Selah.

4 I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon to them that know me: behold Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia; this man was born there.

5 And of Zion it shall be said, This and that man was born in her: and the highest himself shall establish her.

6 The Lord shall count, when he writeth up the people, that this man was born there. Selah.

7 As well the singers as the players on instruments shall be there: all my springs are in thee.

--Psa 87

Are you in a government which exercises dominion over you? If you are, then you are not in a government established by Jesus the Christ and the form of your government is not Christian.

So Molly-, Paul had it wrong when he said this in Romans
[ A Christian's Duties to the State ] Everyone must submit to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist are instituted by God.

Once again I reiterate the Pride Americans have in the false
notion that they are a Christian Nation is a Satanic stronghold.   

Quote from: dajomaco on May 03, 2013, 03:32:44 AM
Are you in a government which exercises dominion over you? If you are, then you are not in a government established by Jesus the Christ and the form of your government is not Christian.

So Molly-, Paul had it wrong when he said this in Romans
[ A Christian's Duties to the State ] Everyone must submit to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist are instituted by God.

Once again I reiterate the Pride Americans have in the false
notion that they are a Christian Nation is a Satanic stronghold.

I don't know what you're talking about Daj.  We're not a Christian country anymore.  Didn't you know that?  Our fearless leader says so.

But, Christ is still there, waiting for his people to return to him, calling them out.

What and where is the key to the Kingdom of Heaven?

1) What is the key to the kingdom of God.

The key to the kingdom of Heaven is a gift given to those
chosen by the giver.
Given for no other reason than his(GOD ) good pleasure.

2) Where is the key to the Kingdom of heaven.

I know were one of the keys are it's in side of me.

nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or, 'There it is!' For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst."

--Luke 17:21


The kingdom of God is among you


For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them."

Mat 18:20

Well Molly it's easier for me to make my point,
if can lump all Americans together. (put tongue in cheek here)

As a true Canadian we want all of the benefits of being American
without any of the responsibility of the decisions made by America.

As a Canadian who lives close to the border of USA.(99% of us do)
We can be critical of your military superiority and still have all the benefits
of it's safety. That way we can keep our superior attitude and say we Canadians would
never do what you Americans do.   

Pontius Pilot washed his hands ,but Jesus was the only one clean.

I don't know that there is any such thing as a Christian country, at least I can't think of one. I think that the US has more per capita than any other country. Christians of every stripe

Anyway, I don't think it matters much  :dontknow:

I think there will be sheep nations and goat nations at the end of the age, with the goat nations being the antichrist nations.



And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:  Mat 25:32


1 Samuel 2:10 those who oppose the LORD will be broken. The Most High will thunder from heaven; the LORD will judge the ends of the earth. "He will give strength to his king and exalt the horn of his anointed."


Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, you blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:  Mat 25:34

Whole nations sounds like a bit of a broad brush. I wonder about religions?

Quote from: Jock on May 03, 2013, 03:49:12 PM
Whole nations sounds like a bit of a broad brush. I wonder about religions?

It does sound like a broad brush.  But, isn't that the way it has worked out?

I don't even want to speculate on that, Molly.

Quote from: Jock on May 03, 2013, 10:05:44 AM
I don't know that there is any such thing as a Christian country, at least I can't think of one. I think that the US has more per capita than any other country. Christians of every stripe

Anyway, I don't think it matters much  :dontknow:

Hang in there Jock :dsunny:

Oh daj... so true.

Sad... but true.

 well,Israel was to be a 'Blessing" to all the nations of the earth......but who would of thought that it was through their failure

as a nation of God[through rejection of Christ] that the Blessing of Grace be extended to them.

   It is my understanding..that no 'flesh[ly] [nation] shall boast ..but by my spirit..to me..means the Grace of God...

  poured forth on all flesh[no-longer any particular nation]  thus the all...for all have fallen short...even the elect....covenant

people[Israel law covenant] and Covenant for a kingdom[Christendom].......  He told the disciples...for your righteousness

must exceed that of the jewish leaders[do what they say..not how they do]

   p.s.  Cyrus was given treasures hidden in dark places as a reward for the way he treated the covenant people..but remeber

his policy of freedom of religion...and that he did not know God..but was never-the-less used of Him for His purpose for a time.

   But Christ and the Kingdom of Heaven,,is a greater then Cyrus the Persian or Solomon.

   stor up for yourselves treasures in Heaven..not treasures on earth[even though it be a treasure unto Cyrus of the earth]

   where robbers and theives break in

   Isaih 45............and Daniel 2...both name Bel or Marduke as Lord,Cyrus and Nebuchaddnezer....the King who exalts himself

   Daniel 11

   any nation that does not go up   Zech 14;17...the feast of tabernancles..is the one festival required of the nations

  or they receive no rain[reign]   this feast speaks of the final regathering and restoration of all Israel as well as

the ingathering of the nations....the ALL men saved by grace of God.through God's son atonement...in that day there

will no longer be a Caananite in the house of the Lord Almighty.......cursed be Canaan.....the lowest of slaves....

   offspring of 'he who uncovered his father's nakedness."  Love covers a multitude of sins..if they have done it unto you,

they have the same done unto Him...He has declared 'my people shall not be ashamed" no shame of nakedness..

  but granted to be covered in clean bright linen.

  the kingdomof heaven shall not begin in the spirit and be perfected with a fleshly nation. The Kingdom of Heaven is

the spirit of Grace[Holy spirit] poured out on all flesh... the 1000 yr reign is the spirit of grace..that ends...when satan

[the accusor/condemner] is released on earth...to go forth and encompass the  city of grace/camp..of the spirit of grace

toall men.   The wicked encompass the righteous,therefore true judgement does not go forth[all men bear the image of the

corrupt one,so,too all shall ber the image of the incorrupt one/the carnal man/spiritual man.......they surrounded the camp

of the city He loves[Grace/spirit poured out] thus the resurrection of the righteous and wicked[carnal flesh boast/old man vs

  grace spirit new creature/new earth/new heaven creature]  thus the baptism of the fire of His word and spirit must burn up

the old/carnal man-doomed to destruction/world stored up for fire.......work of man's hands..fleshly boasts..which is but

an idol made of the hands of man...and not a spiritual work of deliverance by God through His spirit of Grace/through Messiah


    If the kingdom of heaven be in your midst..it exists as the spirit of supplicaation and grace extended through the Holy spirit

.   'Christ in you"..even though it be surrounded by the carnal flesh of corrupt man with the spirit of wickedness in opposition

to the Holy city in you[manchild in Heaven]  Thus the fire comes down from heaven...the breath of the Lord..that consumes

and does away with the man of lawlessness that surrounds the spirit man in us.  thus..the consumation of the betrothed

with the bride-groom...one flesh...the old man  perished[death of the carnal man]

    it is not a fleshly work...the nations exhaust themselves simply for nothing...it is but fuel for the fire..all fleshly works

of carnal man to work righteousness is but idol worship....it is a work of the spirit...by my spirit......

   the Kingdom of heaven..is like.....a woman that took leavening..and hid it in a bowl[all] of 3 mesures of flour..until the

whole bowl of flour was leavened....leavening=the spirit of grace that lifts man up in Christ/the new image

  Ephraim mixes with the nations...Ephraim is a flat cake not turned over.=half-baked ideas of spirit/flesh man mix for salvation

of all men.

  unless a grain of wheat fall to the earth and die...it can not bear fruit unto heaven...wheat/flesh...ground into flour=death

add leavening/spirit of grace=life...the flour becomes a living organism  and rises...and becomes bread of His presence/face

Bread of heaven/life.Matthew 8;11-12....ye have no life in yourselves....I am the true bread of heaven...O'immanuel.

......two wittnesses lie dead in the street...the breath of life from God entered them..and they stood on their feet..and

a voice from heaven said 'come up here"   rise through grace

    He shall rule the nations with a rod of iron.....all national/fleshly division shall be pulverized....grinded into flour Mt 21;44

   he who falls on this stone will be broken[bread] but he on whom it falls will be crushed......

  the husk  must be threshed from the kernal of wheat..threshing sledges with teeth of iron are used  for this.........


  see,I will make you into a threshing sledge..new and sharp with many teeth..   Isaaih 41     you will winnow them...

the wind will pick them up..and a gale will blow them away   a kingdom divided against itself can not stand..the kingdom of

heaven is not divided against itself..through husk/national fleshly associations.....there is neither Greek nor jew in Christ..

no fleshly division of men..princes and principalities of this world resist the kingdom of heaven...the ten toes of iron and

clay can not stick togather................seperate the people one from another=ten toes of clay and iron.....does grain make

bread without the husk removed first? or the grain threshed? and ground/pulverized..how then can it stick togther,less

this occurr first? 

   All...allows no divisions[dividing of zion....... anything less then the all is robbing God/Christ of their due...turning His house

of communion into a house of robbers and theives. If the Kingdom of Heaven[grace] be in you..it will extend to all that

encompasses you..to the not counting of the sins in your own flesh[wickedness] that surrounds you...and extending to

  those all around you......

   unless a kernal of wheat fall to the earth and die..it remains alone[ in it's husk] but if it fall to the earth nd die

[extending the life of grace to others] it bears much fruit unto heaven[grace/life abundantly]

  Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse...that there may be food in my house[Bread of presence]


   TEST ME IN THIS,says the Lord Almighty,and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven,and pour out

so much blessing that you will not have room for it.

So much good stuff in that post! Thanks!

   I have no idea how that line got through there?

Lol... maybe one of the mods can fix it for you.

I wondered what in the Sam Hill point you were making by crossing out scripture..but hey, we all got our own quirks...  :pointlaugh: :LH: :rolllol:

it had this little goomer stuck in the middle of the word zion - ""    which gave it the "strike out" command.  there's probably another one in there i'm missing, but getting at least one of them took out the strikeouts.  so if there's a rogue still in a word somewhere, hey, it could be (and was) worse   :laugh:

    well....I've never even heard of a the word 'goomer'   I thought it was a hyphen?   :laugh:   I'm sure I would flunk a

computer class....if I ever took one....... :laugh:


     TY   JC :friendstu: :banana: :banana: :banana:. :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny:

goomer is just like goober, booger, etc...nothing official about it  lol

i just went to MY POST?   i hadn't seen that MY POST was struck through...the   little s in the brackets  :eek:, as I was so skillfully demonstrating, crossed out my words too.  will you fix that please?    :laughhand:

anyway, it's that 4th little button at the top over from the left, the S with the line through it that does it   :doh:

 :laugh:  :laughing7:
Good one.

Quote from: sheila on May 03, 2013, 08:10:32 PM
well,Israel was to be a 'Blessing" to all the nations of the earth......but who would of thought that it was through their failure

as a nation of God[through rejection of Christ] that the Blessing of Grace be extended to them.

   It is my understanding..that no 'flesh[ly] [nation] shall boast ..but by my spirit..to me..means the Grace of God...

  poured forth on all flesh[no-longer any particular nation]  thus the all...for all have fallen short...even the elect....covenant

people[Israel law covenant] and Covenant for a kingdom[Christendom].......  He told the disciples...for your righteousness

must exceed that of the jewish leaders[do what they say..not how they do]

   p.s.  Cyrus was given treasures hidden in dark places as a reward for the way he treated the covenant people..but remeber

his policy of freedom of religion...and that he did not know God..but was never-the-less used of Him for His purpose for a time.

   But Christ and the Kingdom of Heaven,,is a greater then Cyrus the Persian or Solomon.

   stor up for yourselves treasures in Heaven..not treasures on earth[even though it be a treasure unto Cyrus of the earth]

   where robbers and theives break in

   Isaih 45............and Daniel 2...both name Bel or Marduke as Lord,Cyrus and Nebuchaddnezer....the King who exalts himself

   Daniel 11

   any nation that does not go up   Zech 14;17...the feast of tabernancles..is the one festival required of the nations

  or they receive no rain[reign]   this feast speaks of the final regathering and restoration of all Israel as well as

the ingathering of the nations....the ALL men saved by grace of God.through God's son atonement...in that day there

will no longer be a Caananite in the house of the Lord Almighty.......cursed be Canaan.....the lowest of slaves....

   offspring of 'he who uncovered his father's nakedness."  Love covers a multitude of sins..if they have done it unto you,

they have the same done unto Him...He has declared 'my people shall not be ashamed" no shame of nakedness..

  but granted to be covered in clean bright linen.

  the kingdomof heaven shall not begin in the spirit and be perfected with a fleshly nation. The Kingdom of Heaven is

the spirit of Grace[Holy spirit] poured out on all flesh... the 1000 yr reign is the spirit of grace..that ends...when satan

[the accusor/condemner] is released on earth...to go forth and encompass the  city of grace/camp..of the spirit of grace

toall men.   The wicked encompass the righteous,therefore true judgement does not go forth[all men bear the image of the

corrupt one,so,too all shall ber the image of the incorrupt one/the carnal man/spiritual man.......they surrounded the camp

of the city He loves[Grace/spirit poured out] thus the resurrection of the righteous and wicked[carnal flesh boast/old man vs

  grace spirit new creature/new earth/new heaven creature]  thus the baptism of the fire of His word and spirit must burn up

the old/carnal man-doomed to destruction/world stored up for fire.......work of man's hands..fleshly boasts..which is but

an idol made of the hands of man...and not a spiritual work of deliverance by God through His spirit of Grace/through Messiah


    If the kingdom of heaven be in your midst..it exists as the spirit of supplicaation and grace extended through the Holy spirit

.   'Christ in you"..even though it be surrounded by the carnal flesh of corrupt man with the spirit of wickedness in opposition

to the Holy city in you[manchild in Heaven]  Thus the fire comes down from heaven...the breath of the Lord..that consumes

and does away with the man of lawlessness that surrounds the spirit man in us.  thus..the consumation of the betrothed

with the bride-groom...one flesh...the old man  perished[death of the carnal man]

    it is not a fleshly work...the nations exhaust themselves simply for nothing...it is but fuel for the fire..all fleshly works

of carnal man to work righteousness is but idol worship....it is a work of the spirit...by my spirit......

   the Kingdom of heaven..is like.....a woman that took leavening..and hid it in a bowl[all] of 3 mesures of flour..until the

whole bowl of flour was leavened....leavening=the spirit of grace that lifts man up in Christ/the new image

  Ephraim mixes with the nations...Ephraim is a flat cake not turned over.=half-baked ideas of spirit/flesh man mix for salvation

of all men.

  unless a grain of wheat fall to the earth and die...it can not bear fruit unto heaven...wheat/flesh...ground into flour=death

add leavening/spirit of grace=life...the flour becomes a living organism  and rises...and becomes bread of His presence/face

Bread of heaven/life.Matthew 8;11-12....ye have no life in yourselves....I am the true bread of heaven...O'immanuel.

......two wittnesses lie dead in the street...the breath of life from God entered them..and they stood on their feet..and

a voice from heaven said 'come up here"   rise through grace

    He shall rule the nations with a rod of iron.....all national/fleshly division shall be pulverized....grinded into flour Mt 21;44

   he who falls on this stone will be broken[bread] but he on whom it falls will be crushed......

  the husk  must be threshed from the kernal of wheat..threshing sledges with teeth of iron are used  for this.........


  see,I will make you into a threshing sledge..new and sharp with many teeth..   Isaaih 41     you will winnow them...

the wind will pick them up..and a gale will blow them away   a kingdom divided against itself can not stand..the kingdom of

heaven is not divided against itself..through husk/national fleshly associations.....there is neither Greek nor jew in Christ..

no fleshly division of men..princes and principalities of this world resist the kingdom of heaven...the ten toes of iron and

clay can not stick togather................seperate the people one from another=ten toes of clay and iron.....does grain make

bread without the husk removed first? or the grain threshed? and ground/pulverized..how then can it stick togther,less

this occurr first? 

   All...allows no divisions[dividing of zion....... anything less then the all is robbing God/Christ of their due...turning His house

of communion into a house of robbers and theives. If the Kingdom of Heaven[grace] be in you..it will extend to all that

encompasses you..to the not counting of the sins in your own flesh[wickedness] that surrounds you...and extending to

  those all around you......

   unless a kernal of wheat fall to the earth and die..it remains alone[ in it's husk] but if it fall to the earth nd die

[extending the life of grace to others] it bears much fruit unto heaven[grace/life abundantly]

  Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse...that there may be food in my house[Bread of presence]


   TEST ME IN THIS,says the Lord Almighty,and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven,and pour out

so much blessing that you will not have room for it.

Thank you, thank you, thank you Sheila...  what a wonderful  Sheila's Scriptural Sharing... and one that I have printed and will use in one of my latest projects:   FULNESS OF CHRIST/fulness of the gentiles.   I believe that the word "gentiles" in this context does not refer to people, nations, kingdoms...  so much to ponder yet...   again thanks

 :thumbsup:  Thanks Shelia  :HeartThrob:

IMO -All nations will be gathered before Him, but He will not separate them as nations, He will separate them as individuals who lived in those nations. I revelations it speaks

Rev 5:9  And they *sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation.

These "sheep" are those who heard the shepherds voice, as righteous people establishing righteousness in a righteous nation- or as righteous people shining like stars against the darkness in an evil nation- which is most, since Jesus said, "You will be hated of all nations for my name's sake" and, "Go forth proclaiming the gospel, making disciples of all nations".

IMO, His gathering up until now is bringing many sons unto glory, the firstfruits- and the Bride. Then afterwards the nations, then afterwards, all principality and power, including the hosts of wickedness in the heavenly realms until the last adversary, death, is no longer because God is all in all and all that there remains rejoices in life in the love of God.

"an administration consisting of the fulfilling of the times/eras/ages, the gathering together of all things in one in Christ Jesus, whether things in heaven or on earth.(my paraphrase)"

Eph 1:9-12 

All things

He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth.

The Firstfruits

In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory.

Heb 2:10

All things

For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things,

The Firstfuits


in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings.


Rom 8:18-23

The Firstfruits

For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.  For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.

All Things into the glorious freedom of the Firstfruits

For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope  that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

All Things

For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.

The Firstfruits

  And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.

Jas 1:17-18

Firstfruits

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

We see the nations still existing at the end of the age and going into the next age.

He will take  his own people from every tribe and tongue and nation to be a nation of priests.  These are the ones who are standing before the throne and singing a new song.

In both Old and New Testament prophecy the extant nations who treated Israel badly will be severely judged by Christ.

Every nation in the Old Testament prophecy that Jesus is very harsh with at his return is currently a muslim nation.

:2c:

Molly, are you saying that Israel is currently a Muslim nation? or will become one? Israel is the apple of God's eye and anyone who curses Israel will in turn be cursed but anyone who blesses Israel will in turn, be blessed. My wife is Jewish but a follower of Yeshua. We both have a great love in our hearts for Israel.

Blessings

Quote from: Jock on April 30, 2013, 10:02:01 PM
I believe that we will also be persecuted, not only by Islam but by traditional evangelical Christianity. After all, we, the heretics are part of the great deception, NOT!

I got a sneak preview of this when Rob Bell went public with "Love Wins" also, Carlton Pearson, Bishop John Spong and others. I've seen it with my own sister who is evangelical. Might as well figure on the gay lobby too.

I think there will also be some wonderful things happening in the Spirit, too. We have some great things to share with those who will listen.  :winkgrin:

I am currently facing some persecution now from my ET church.
Some of the deacons want me ousted from the deacon body.
The head deacon visited me and asked that I keep the UR stuff quiet.
During his visit the phrase "take action" [against me] came out of his mouth.
At least one member, the pastor's father, is shunning me.
The pastor may also be shunning me at this point, but I'm not sure, as he is really sly.
He has not spoken to me in two weeks, whereas he used to be very friendly and loving.
I suspect he wants me to leave.
In a church of 60 people, it's not hard to realize when you are being shunned, so time will tell.
Why do people withdraw their love when you do something they don't like (like posting UR on FaceBook)? :sigh:
Doesn't sound like God's love to me.

 jbertonbounds , this doesn't surprise me at all. Shunning is horrible, I have been shunned before after leaving a Pentecostal church. It seems like, when you are there, everybody just loves each other but if question things, they grow fangs and once you finally leave, you never see them again. This is not love!

Perhaps it's time for you to leave but it's your decision ultimately
I'm with you whatever you do.  :Peace2:

Quote from: Jock on May 07, 2013, 06:08:50 PM
Molly, are you saying that Israel is currently a Muslim nation? or will become one? Israel is the apple of God's eye and anyone who curses Israel will in turn be cursed but anyone who blesses Israel will in turn, be blessed. My wife is Jewish but a follower of Yeshua. We both have a great love in our hearts for Israel.

Blessings

No.  What did I say that gave you that idea?  I said the nations will be judged according to how they treat Israel.

I will bless those who bless thee...

Quote from: jbertonbounds on May 07, 2013, 07:11:12 PM

Quote from: Jock on April 30, 2013, 10:02:01 PM
I believe that we will also be persecuted, not only by Islam but by traditional evangelical Christianity. After all, we, the heretics are part of the great deception, NOT!

I got a sneak preview of this when Rob Bell went public with "Love Wins" also, Carlton Pearson, Bishop John Spong and others. I've seen it with my own sister who is evangelical. Might as well figure on the gay lobby too.

I think there will also be some wonderful things happening in the Spirit, too. We have some great things to share with those who will listen.  :winkgrin:

I am currently facing some persecution now from my ET church.
Some of the deacons want me ousted from the deacon body.
The head deacon visited me and asked that I keep the UR stuff quiet.
During his visit the phrase "take action" [against me] came out of his mouth.
At least one member, the pastor's father, is shunning me.
The pastor may also be shunning me at this point, but I'm not sure, as he is really sly.
He has not spoken to me in two weeks, whereas he used to be very friendly and loving.
I suspect he wants me to leave.
In a church of 60 people, it's not hard to realize when you are being shunned, so time will tell.
Why do people withdraw their love when you do something they don't like (like posting UR on FaceBook)? :sigh:
Doesn't sound like God's love to me.

I don't know why people do what they do but I guess if they want you to stop on facebook and in the church,  and you want to stay with them, you should honor their wishes.

People are not likely to change.  That's been my experience.  Don't you think that's true?

You can still meet secretly with us lol.

Yes, the people who once "loved" us now hate us. True love endures all things however... God's love. This is one of the major eye openers as to the true state of things in the churches.... they claim to teach love but have no true love in them for the most part. They do not realize that they are a laughingstock to society... walking in contradiction and hypocrisy... known for preaching "love" but being the most judgemental people of all and most often hating those who disagree with their doctrines. I know firsthand because not so long ago I was one of the worst of them! They are sincerely blinded, believing that what they are doing is right. I pray for them and hope and long for the day when God will open their eyes as He opened mine. It is a horrible place to be, under the doctrine of hellfire and stuck in the pit of condemning those who disagree with you, living in constant fear of the only one who is truly able to love and save you, never able to truly turn to Him with your whole heart because you cannot truly trust Him. Looking forward to the day when He brings us all out from under the bondage of the lies of babylon!!! And thanking and praising Him for opening my eyes to the truth of His love for all, thank you Father!

Sorry, Molly, read it wrong  :dunno2:

Quote from: lomarah on May 07, 2013, 07:48:58 PM
Yes, the people who once "loved" us now hate us. True love endures all things however... God's love. This is one of the major eye openers as to the true state of things in the churches.... they claim to teach love but have no true love in them for the most part. They do not realize that they are a laughingstock to society... walking in contradiction and hypocrisy... known for preaching "love" but being the most judgemental people of all and most often hating those who disagree with their doctrines. I know firsthand because not so long ago I was one of the worst of them! They are sincerely blinded, believing that what they are doing is right. I pray for them and hope and long for the day when God will open their eyes as He opened mine. It is a horrible place to be, under the doctrine of hellfire and stuck in the pit of condemning those who disagree with you, living in constant fear of the only one who is truly able to love and save you, never able to truly turn to Him with your whole heart because you cannot truly trust Him. Looking forward to the day when He brings us all out from under the bondage of the lies of babylon!!! And thanking and praising Him for opening my eyes to the truth of His love for all, thank you Father!

A profound truth. 
Great post overall!
Thanks.

I think separating the sheep from the goats (at His return) is not personal judgment, like expected at teh White Throne Judgment, or what is commonly called Judgment 'Day'.. but is the same gathering as the one to Armegeddon.. All things have been designed/overseen by God, yet man's been allowed to make some choices (not for reconciliation or not reconciliation, but other choices, which is what is meant by saying man has a will or 'free' will.. even though it too is imperfect, so not really FREEwill) -- the separation when Jesus returns with angels and with fire.. yet I believe the fire is of man's doing.. and is the conflagration of Armegeddon.. the goat nations of the planet will be the ones whose armies will surround Jerusalem.. i think it's a temporary and earthly judgment.. and just may include all nations.. (the way things are progressing)

...and very shortly afterwards is the 1st resurrection, if not concurrent.. with the last conflagration being the bowls of the final consequences of mankind's wandering from God.. As the bowls go 'down' (very quickly/together?) the saints/believers 'go up'/meet the Lord in the air, as He is returning.. It's my understanding there will be two classes of folks during the millennium.. those of the 1st resurrection and survivors of Armageddon, etc.

This is the separation of the sheep and the goats, here-



31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37 "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40 "The King will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.'

41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the olam fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44 "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45 "He will reply, 'Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

46 "Then they will go away to olam punishment, but the righteous to olam life."


Seems pretty individual to me. :o)

Two things going on there, I think, Eaglesway.

Nations obeying God.

And, individuals obeying God.

Certainly nations have policies that include feeding the poor, coming to the aid of those who need help, showing mercy, and so forth, as much as do individual men--maybe moreso because they are more powerful than individual men.

There will be nations after the millenium and the nations will be judged at the return of Christ.

His royal priesthood will be taken out of the nations [as fully spiritual and immortal beings, the sons of God] and Christ and his priesthood will rule and reign the nations [of human men] in the millenium.

:2c:

--from a literalist

All the nations will be gathered together and the people will be separated one from another- according to their works, literally :o)  :2c:

Quote from: marie glenthink separating the sheep from the goats (at His return) is not personal judgment, like expected at teh White Throne Judgment, or what is commonly called Judgment 'Day'.. but is the same gathering as the one to Armegeddon.. All things have been designed/overseen by God, yet man's been allowed to make some choices (not for reconciliation or not reconciliation, but other choices, which is what is meant by saying man has a will or 'free' will.. even though it too is imperfect, so not really FREEwill) -- the separation when Jesus returns with angels and with fire.. yet I believe the fire is of man's doing.. and is the conflagration of Armegeddon.. the goat nations of the planet will be the ones whose armies will surround Jerusalem.. i think it's a temporary and earthly judgment.. and just may include all nations.. (the way things are progressing)

..and very shortly afterwards is the 1st resurrection, if not concurrent.. with the last conflagration being the bowls of the final consequences of mankind's wandering from God.. As the bowls go 'down' (very quickly/together?) the saints/believers 'go up'/meet the Lord in the air, as He is returning.. It's my understanding there will be two classes of folks during the millennium.. those of the 1st resurrection and survivors of Armageddon, etc.

   :thumbsup:    I could back this all up with scripture, if I had the time.

Quote from: eaglesway on May 08, 2013, 05:23:26 AM
All the nations will be gathered together and the people will be separated one from another- according to their works, literally :o)  :2c:

Yeah, it depends what translation you look at, the greek sounds more like the nations are being separated one from another.

Let me just say, I don't see that passage so much as an event as I see it as an explantion of why he is doing what he is doing at his return.

Because we know those who inherit the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world, will be snatched up [rapturo] into the air to meet the Lord at his return and, as marie said, at the same time the bowls of wrath will be poured on the [goat] nations of the earth.  So that description really doesn't fit this one in terms of events that are happening, but the concept is the same.

:2c:

Actually you may want to look at the word ethne(nations), interchangeably translated, heathen, pagans, Gentiles, peoples, nations, throughout the NT (163 usages). IMO, The greek leans neither way, it is a matter of interpretation, not translation- as to whether He is separating individuals out of the "nations" into His holy nation- the sheepfold. Remember, after they are separated, they go into aionian kolassis or aionian zoe in Matthew 25:46- nations do not go into aionian zoe or aionian kolassis, that is for individuals according to their lives in the flesh and their response to God and man.

The inclusion of the word "nations" with "sheep" is your interpretation. It may be correct, but I don't think so. He will gather the nations, the masses of people, and He will "gather out of His kingdom all that offends" separating the sheep- those who walked in compassion( I was sick and you visited me), from the goats- those who walked in head knowledge (Lord, Lord, didnt we prophesy an do many mighty works in your name).

This similar to the wheat and the tares. The wheat bows down as harvest approaches, full of fruitfulness and ready to be buried(seed stock) or eaten (bread). Tares just stand tall and stay green- thats how the servants see the difference as time goes on during the planting season- they cannot be separated until they are CUT DOWN- i.e.- the end of the age/death- where all will awaken(every eye will see Him even those who pierced Him)- some to rejoicing and some to hiding their faces from the Lamb and the One who sits on the throne)ancient of days).

In other words, ethne(nations, peoples, Gentiles, heathen, pagans) is a word for masses of common people used in many different ways and it is the context of all Jesus spoke of sheep and goats that bears the most weight as the scriptures interpret themselves. :2c:

Gold, silver, precious stone......wood hay stubble.

The only saints who will live through the millenial reign are the overcomers of the ages previous "the Lord knows those who are His", "If by any means I might attain to the "out-resurrection(exanastasis) from amongst the dead"- everyone else will be raised for the great white throne and judged according to the things written in the books.

Eaglesway, do you see humans and immortal sons of God co-existing on earth in the next age?

Nations does mean gentiles, but in this age, the gentiles also become the Christians.

And, the age will last until the fulness of the gentiles is achieved.

But, not all Gentiles are Christians.

Yes I see this age as appointed for the fulness of the Gentiles to come in- not all Gentiles, but those appointed to salvation- which is inclusion in the One New Man(Be saved from this perverse generatio-(Acts 3). I see the millienial reign as a time when the first resurrection saints, who IMO are the overcomers(faithful saints, gold silver precious stone builders of the last two ages) will be a priesthood extending the kingdom of God and the word of the Lord to all people as the water covers the sea, removing the veil that covers the nations, continuing the restoration of all things- the administration working out through the completion of times(Eph 1:9-11).

As far as I can see there are at least two more ages after that and I believe their are overlaps between the ages, and that they are seen through a glass darkly, so I like to discuss them, but I am not saying I know all about it :o)

In Zechariah there is a vision of an arch being built- "the capstone will be set in place wuth shouts of "grace to it, grace to it"!

I see the Hebrews as one leg of the arch, the Christian age gentile church(tru universal invisible scattered many membered body) as the other leg of it.

As this age comes to a close I believe th arch will rise and be visible, like the messenger in Rev 10 (clothed with the clouds, head in heaven, rainbow upon head), thier will be a wave o martyrdom like never before(Lord, How long!- Wait until the rest of your brethren are beheaded for the faith) and Jesus will return, actually, in power and glory at the head of 10,000s times 10.000s of angels and resurrected saints and take the throne of earth and make it the throne of heaven and earth.

Thats why I think we are a bit further from the end than most who believe in a historical, physical return of Jesus.

The millenial age I see as being more murky, a few clues given but no full picture available at the present time :o) (least not to me LOLOL)