the last 7 plagues held for the false church [Babylon ]

[rosered]

  Yes it is always good for us to remind one another  to encourage, strengthen
  each other in Love   ,  what a help in the times of need  , for this I am ever so grateful 

  and love to all  :HeartThrob:

[anna274]

Thanks eaglesway for taking the time to share so many Scriptures... and of course, I will print your entire post.  Of particular interest was Isaiah 54:7-14...I usually read all scripture verses quoted in context and to my great, great delight Isaiah 54:9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me; for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee---

reminded me to look deeper for the connection between the physical ark and the spiritual ark (Christ)...   there's must be a great connection... Jesus mentions the days of Noah in the same discourse as He shares (warns) about the tribulation.... (Matt 24)...

Yes, I think the ark of Noah and the secret place of the most high are the same. Noah's ark was the secret place for him and his family in his time.

What will it be in ours? "Today if you hear His voice...."

No man knows the day or the hour.....

Blessed is that servant whom the Lord finds so doing when He comes......

Come my children, hide in your rooms for a awhile, till my wrath is spent and the indignation is finished :o)

Oh my, I'm getting ready for a short vacation away from my computer, but decided to do a final check of recent posts and found this one of yours... and I am so happy I did...  you have given me  a "connection" that I would very probably never have even considered had YOU not shared this "connection"... I value your input because I find it always Scripturally sound. 

I very carefully filed your post  under NEEDS IMMEDIATE ATTENTION... after my vacation, that is.

Hi eaglesway... just droppin' in to let you know that I will have a couple of hours tomorrow to give some attention to researching a bit more on the above "connection" that you so graciously provided.  Also, am looking into something that I find very curious   while on/in the ark and as the waters began to recede, Noah first sent out a raven (not a nice clean bird, then a dove (three times)  also of great interest God covenanted with Noah to never again destroy the earth with water...  physical water=water of death; spiritual water=water of life...

interesting... the first time we hear of a dove in NT is when Jesus was immersed/baptized in water.... the second time was at Pentecost...   do we know of a third time??? or is that what Joel prophesied and Peter reminded us of that prophecy (some place in Acts??)... I can't seem to move away from there being a much bigger connection between Noah/physical ark/all flesh destroyed and the end times (destruction by spiritual fire)...all bowing knees.... God all in all....

[eaglesway]

Yes, the connection is there in 2 pet 3

2Pe 3:2-13  That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:  (3)  Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,  (4)  And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

(5)  For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word(logos) of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:  (6)  Whereby the world(kosmos) that then was, being overflowed(katakluzo) with water, perished:(apollumi) 

(7)  But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word(logos) are kept in store, reserved(tereo- to guard from loss or injury-Strong's) unto fire against the day(period) of judgment(tribunal) and perdition(ruin/loss) of ungodly men.(lose reward,saved as through fire) 

(8)  But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 

(9)  The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish(apollumi), but that all should come to repentance. 

(10)  But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise(the veilof the heavens will be rolledbaclike a scroll and evry eyeshall see Him) , and the elements(stoicheon) shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up(consumed wholly). 

(11)  Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved(luo), what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,  (12)  Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire(burn down/being refined-Strong's) shall be dissolved(luo), and the elements(stoicheon) shall melt with fervent heat?  (13)  Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Behold I am making all things new.

The translation(or mistranslation) of the word 'destroy' is as deceiving as the translation of aion or olam. This destruction is speaking of the "dissolving" of the "stoicheon of the world". The flood did ot physically destroy the earth, it purged it for a new beginning.

IMO these verses are written "for us" "to us-ward"- pointed in our direction who kow the will of God. They describe a (period) "day of tribunal"(Daniel thrones were set up and the court was sat) which will "burn down" the "stoicheon" of the present kosmos. However, even as the water cleansed the face of the earth and destroyed the "kosmos"(world system) that then was- leaving it(albeit only for a little while) a place of peace(dove/olive leaf) for a new beginning- another stage in the "administration suitable to the fulness of times". It is just like the wheat that is separated from the chaff and the chaff swept away and burned with "fervent heat"- same as Jesus' unquenchable fire- thorughly purging His threshing floor, so He can GATHER THE WHEAT/BURN THE CHAFF(refuse of the old man, old kosmos).

Every kernel of wheat is covered with chaff. It either gets separated from the chaff by falling into the ground and dying to reproduce fruit like unto itself(overcomers) or it gets beaten with the threshing fork and winnowed with the fan(blows the chaff away after the beating), swept up and burned. THIS IS FOR THE ULTIMATE PRESERVATION OF THE WHEAT :o)

The word "stoicheon" which is in Peter translated "elements" is in Hebrews 5, the "elementary principles"(of the oracles of God). It means, the core streams, the foundational principles. The core streams and foundational principles may be of God or of man.

In Gal 4:3-5  it(stoicheon) is "Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:  (4)  But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,  (5)  To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Here we see the "stoicheon" of the law "burned down" by the manifestation of "the light of the world", Jesus- in the fulness of time, which means "when the time was ripe according to God's purpose"-  we know His purpose is according to His kind intention which He purposed in Himself, the gathering of all things into one in Christ(Eph 1:9-11)

In Gal 4:9  it(stoicheon) is, But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements(the law), whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

These weak and beggarly elements have been "burned down"- done away by the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. The "flood" of His love "destroyed" them from the cross, ISSUING IN NEW STOICHEON- ELEMENTS/FOUNDATIONS/PRINCIPLES. Ever since then the "unqenchable fire" is burning down the old man Adam and the old elements, weak and beggarly IN THAT THEY COULD NOT PERFECT THOSE WHO WERE LIVING BY THEM and creating a NEW MANKIND for a NEW KOSMOS wherin DWELLS RIGHTEOUSNESS- the righteousness that is by faith in Jesus(I live yet not I but Christ lives in me).

In Col 2:8  it(stoicheon) is, Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world/stoicheon), and not after Christ.

When Peter speaks of the elements being consumed with intense heat he is(IMO) speaking of the "unquenchable fire" of the light of Christ, by His FULLY UNVEILED MANIFESTATION, destroying(apollumi), dissolving(luo/loosing) the "rudiments of the world" and ushering in the last glorious age of earth. LIGHT is FIRE to DARKNESS. Darkness is chaff. Death deals with the chaff(appolumi, kolasis, luo- lost, beaten, loosed- sound familiar all ye prodigals?)

In Col 2:18-23  it is, Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,  (19)  And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.  (20)  Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world/stoicheon, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,  (21)  (Touch not; taste not; handle not;  (22)  Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?  (23)  Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; but having no affect upon the life of the flesh man(my paraphrase).

ONLY DEATH deals with the flesh man- CruCIFIED IN CHrIST, whereby the RENDING OF tHE FLESH/TEARING OF THE VEIL making the EYES OF OUR HEART an APPERTURE OF LIGHT untilwe are RENEWED IN THE FIRE. The purification of our faith through trial and tribulation(threshing floor/winnowing fork) is SANCTIFYING us into the divine nature of Jesus where LOVE REIGNS and GLORY washes the appetite for sin away LIKE FIRE CONSUMING THE CHAFF. This is the GLORIOUS LIBERTY OF thE CHILDREN OF GOD :o) Only in it and by it may we follow Him to where He is, and become seated in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus and "come down out of the heavens adorned as a Bride".

Heb 5:12-14  For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles(stoicheon) of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.  (13)  For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.  (14)  But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age(ripe), even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Those who can SEE THE ELEMENTS and balance them in wisdom(1 Cor 2- the hidden wisdom)- discern the elements of the oracles of God verses the rudiments of the world, the traditions of men. The chaff that is being "burned up with unquenchable fire" is the "elements being consumed with intense heat" as the NEW STOICHEON of the LOGOS OF GOD becomes like a flood of living water that is also a river of fire upon the darkness of carnal men to SET THEM FREE FROM FUTILITY into the glorious liberty of the sons of God.(Romans 8)

In the next age, I believe there is going to be a crack in the sky- a tear in the veil, the eternal will begin to flood into the natural in a NEW RIVER that will gradually fill the earth as the waters cover the sea. This glory, beginning with the appearing/manifesting of Jesus will REMAKE THE WORLD DURING A DAY. A day that is already dawned in the first-fruits and wil reach its zenith over the whole world- a full noon of open revelation of Jesus Christ and the children of God.

2Pe 3:9-13  (9)But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

(10)But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 

(11)  Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,  (12)  Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?  (13)  Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

I think when we die, the silver cord is broken, it snaps with a loud noise- a roar, a shout, perhaps a trumpet sound ;o)and we awaken before the judgment throne- some to reward, some to a period in the fire/consuming light of the presence of God until the knee bows and that person comes into the all in all. How that integrates with the "administration suitable to the fulness(pleroma) of tie"- I am not really sure........But I am sure that fire is for the preservation of the treasured wheat, and the chaff, once separated by beating(kolasis) is burned until it no longer exists- and the wheat is gathered.


Ah me Oh my, God is good,


1Co 2:6-14  Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world(rudiments/stoicheo of this present kosmos), nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought(apollumi,kolasis,luo):  (7)  But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom,(oracles) which God ordained before the world(stoicheon) unto our glory:  (8)  Which none of the princes of this world knew(Col 2:18-23) for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.  (9)  But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him(a new heavens and a new earth wherin righteousness dwells).  (10)  But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.  (11)  For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.  (12)  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.  (13)  Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth(rudiments of the world), but which the Holy Ghost teacheth(oracles); comparing spiritual things with spiritual(discerning/relating byand in the stoicheon of the Logos of God-living oracles).  (14)  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

[sheila]

those born again from above,symbolized by the dove..the breast of heaven offered to  the new creature..in Christ..both

a new heaven and new earth..in which righteousness dwells..if indeed the spirit of God dwell in you,O'Immanuel.

     The dove symbol is associated with Jerusalem above having brought to birth a son of God,born from above...

  her being sent forth,three times,and remaining the third time, symbolized...the son of man finding a place to lay

  His head[Christ mind.....His name dwelling there]n  the raven sent forth to and fro..is the symbol of the spirit

of Elijah.....saying make strait your paths,repent...the preparatory work for the coming of Christ.

[anna274]

eagleway re: connection;   Sheila re: dove three times

Thanks...  so much to ponder

but  "ah me, oh my, GOD is good" and the Holy Spirit will continue to guide us into all truth.

[Lazarus Short]

The wheat/chaff, yes, are ONE.  We are all wheat, we are all chaff, as they are of the same kernel.  Humanity is not divided into saved wheat and unsaved/unsavable tares, as I used to understand it, but the tares and the chaff are the part of us destroyed in the LoF.  :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny:

[eaglesway]

Personally, I see the LOF as a specific expression of the consuming fire of God reserved for aionian kolassis. I do not believe that anyone whos name is written in the Lamb's book of life (bloodwashed believer) has any part in it.

Altho I understand the point of view about the LOF that all are in it till all are through it and God is all in all- it just doesnt jive with the scriptures.

The way I read it there has to be a benefit for overcoming in Christ in this age, staying current under the blood(confession, repentence, sanctification)- or this is all a play act as far as I can see and a third of the scriptures are worthless(exhortations to perservere and seek the kingdom and warnngs of ill consequences for disobedience and unbelief)) - which means the whole book is worthless.

The firey trial that comes upon believers to purify their faith is their opportunity to enter the priesthood category of sons and inheritors of the promises that the faithless have forsaken in this age. It is the result of being "Children of the Day" who will not be taken like a thief and will not need to be purged, having already completed the process as disciples. Thats what discipleship, stewardship and overcoming are about- some 30 some 60 some 100 fold.  The warning to those who walk in darkness is that they will face kolassis unneeded by those upon whom the blood of Jesus has already been efficacious.

"Confess your faults one to another and pray for one another that you may be healed."

"If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness"

"If we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship(union & communion) with one another and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin".

Light is fire to darkness. It cannot kindle upon the blood washed, the transparent ones, the broken and contrite ones, but rather causes them to shine.

Salvation, santification and restoration are the benefits of overcoming as a faithful disciple who abides in Christ.

IMO, For those who have rejected it, or treated it shamefully- that opportunity will be provided again, in the LoF(whatever that actually is) at or after the Great White Throne, and I believe it will be harder than the one we currently have provided in this age through the cross and the blood and the body of Christ- for those who will come that way- at least, that is the way I read it :o)

[rosered]

  Thanks John
  I  understand your  thoughts on the Lake of Fire  , you said

Personally, I see the LOF as a specific expression of the consuming fire of God reserved for aionian kolassis. I do not believe that anyone whos name is written in the Lamb's book of life (bloodwashed believer) has any part in it.

I dont know , but always wondered if  when you become Gods Child  , you become  One with the consuming fire of God ?


  Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all. Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble


  what do you makes  of these scriptures  in Isaiah ?
The earth mourneth [and] languisheth: Lebanon is ashamed [and] hewn down: Sharon is like a wilderness; and Bashan and Carmel shake off [their fruits]. 


Isa 33:10 ¶ Now will I rise, saith the LORD; now will I be exalted; now will I lift up myself. 


Isa 33:11   Ye shall conceive chaff, ye shall bring forth stubble: your breath, [as] fire, shall devour you. 


Isa 33:12   And the people shall be [as] the burnings of lime: [as] thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire. 


Isa 33:13   Hear, ye [that are] far off, what I have done; and, ye [that are] near, acknowledge my might. 


Isa 33:14 ¶ The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? 


Isa 33:15   He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil; 


Isa 33:16   He shall dwell on high: his place of defence [shall be] the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters [shall be] sure. 
Isa 33:17 ¶ Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off. 



where As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. 


Rom 9:26   And it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. 
Rom 9:27   Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: 

Rom 9:28   For he will finish the work, and cut [it] short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth. 


Rom 9:29   And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha. 


Rom 9:30 ¶ What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 


Rom 9:31   But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 


Rom 9:32   Wherefore? Because [they sought it] not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 


Rom 9:33   As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


  I dont know exactly how the Lord God will do this  work , I just hope  not to be deceived   
  maybe misunderstanding 
    :dunno2:

[marie glen]

 :hiya: hi, Anna,

You know, i think there are many levels to God's Word.. He is so able to (#1) to communicate on every level as to all the different sorts of people.. so that for instance, the words, "He burns the chaff up with unquenchable fire" throws fear into the practicing sinner ("to fall into the hands of the living God is a fearful thing"). It's not because our Father hates and has a spirit of vengenance! I wouldn't think.. But that as many have mentioned, He is a consuming fire.

He told Moses to tell the people to stay back from the mountain lest He "break forth and consume them". Which I've heard those critical of the Bible quote as a character flaw of God! (wink! rolF!) Like He was saying 'I don't know if i can control myself and keep from doing away with them all!' I think most who know our loving Father know it was His concern for them that was being expressed.. For He, His essence is a consuming fire.. I'm thinking maybe this is why, or a big reason whey there will be  new heavens and a new earth, because the whole universe groans.. is 'fallen'.. everything being under the dominion of death/imperfection. And God/Life/Perfection who is a consuming fire of all things not pure.

When i think about it, it seems like, to me, (is it Ezekiel?) when he talks about "they will look at each other their faces on fire.." It seems like in context it is describing modern day's capability for thermal-nuclear warfare.. yet perhaps it has a deeper meaning..

I don't believe the fire of God Himself to be physical fire but a higher spiritual fire.. which is Life itself. Which I can't help but think God is Life itself.. "In the beginning God.."

But I do lean toward thinking we will still have "spiritual bodies" and not just be little flames in His all inclusive fire.. I mean, we will be, but also with "spiritual bodies" living within "a new heavens and a new earth"..

I think of His return, when He comes with fire and angels.. and He sends His angels out to gather His elect from the 4 corners/winds of the earth (after the tribulation of those days).. when the "dead in Christ rise first" - I have thought of the bowls ("which occur quickly") as 'coming down' as the saints 'go up" to "meet the Lord in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord"!

Zechariah 14:4 says His feet touch down upon Mt of Olives (from where He left)...

..perhaps His coming IS the bowls the 7 last effects in the cup of consequences of all Godlessness.. yet, I've always felt that man's destruction of his ways and world will be consequences of man's doings.. Hence the thermal-nuclear of the prophet (Ezekiel, I think) and these last plagues which seem like results of thermal-nuclear??
     :gsmile:

[eaglesway]

I believe the plagues are literal and by the hand of God- "Let my people go that they may worship me". A last great exodus of the planet earth from under the power of "the rulers of the hosts of wickedness in the heavenly realms.

God used a real flood to set the earth free for Noah. He used real plagues and parted the Red Sea to set Israel free for Egypt. I think he will bring real plagues upon the world under the beast/Pharoah/anti-christ/son of perdition. "Yet once more will I shake the heavens and the earth until only that which cannot be shaken remains".

Whatever typology applies to the plagues and the bowls, I don't believe it will be fulfilled "in time" until the last three and a half years of the age previous to the second coming of Christ.

I believe the two witnesses are literal also, and will call down the plagues, trumpet, then bowl, trumpet, then bowl, etc.

Note: 2nd trumpet- 1/3 green grass burnt up  2nd bowl all green grass burnt up; 3rd trumpet 1/3 waters turned to blood 3rd bowl all the waters turned to blood......7th trumpet the mystery of the gospel is finished  &th bowl "It is Finished".

I believe the LOF is for adversaries in the age to come because of the simple statement, "And anyone whose name was not written in the Lamb's book of life was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone(theon/godfire)."

If your name is written in the Lamb's book of life, you arent thrown into the lake of fire as I read it -symbolically, spiritually or othrwise. :2c:

[rosered]

  Hi all , I would probably  be safe to say , its going to be nothing like any of expect  it to be  :flamebreath:   

I really dont have any solid answers  .period

And  the curse of adam is   the ground for his sake as well as sorrow eating it all the days of his life  , its by the sweat of his face  does he eat bread , until he returns to the ground as the dust , he was taken from .

And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life;   


Gen 3:18   Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 


Gen 3:19   In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return.

  Thanking God we are more than   just dust

[marie glen]

Speaking of *fire,

these verses are interesting concerning "fire" in a vision of Ezekiel (see 8:1-3..)

Ezekiel 9;2,4, in his vision with God - 2 And lo, six men are coming from the way of the upper gate ...and one man in their midst is clothed with linen, and a scribe's inkhorn at his loins, and they come in, and stand near the brazen altar... 4 The LORD said to him, "Go through the midst of the city, even through the midst of Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and groan over all the abominations which are being committed in its midst."

Before this one goes out with his inkhorn:

10:6-8 -

6 ..He commanded the man clothed in linen, saying, "Take fire from between the whirling wheels, from between the cherubim," he entered and stood beside a wheel. 7 Then the cherub stretched out his hand from between the cherubim to the fire which was between the cherubim, took some and put it into the hands of the one clothed in linen, who took it and went out. 8 The cherubim appeared to have the form of a man's hand under their wings.

I can't help but think this "marking on the forehead" reminds us of the verses in the Bk of Rev -

rev 7:3,4,9 - 3 saying, "Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads ...One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.. and.. a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues"

[ ..this is exactly where I think we are on planet earth today.]

When the 6th seal was broken, a new fire was unleashed, then it is paused: (It's described here as a intertwined blend of what it is when the seal is 1st broken and what it is in its full growth/'gallop' at the 'end', which pretty much hides a lot of the Revelation vision for some time)

Rev 7:1-3 - 1 And after these things I saw four messengers (angels) standing upon the four corners of the land, holding the four winds of the land, that the wind may not blow upon the land, nor upon the sea, nor upon any tree;

2 and I saw another messenger going up from the rising of the sun, having a seal of the living God, and he did cry with a great voice to the four messengers, to whom it was given to injure the land and the sea, saying,

3 `Do not injure the land, nor the sea, nor the trees, till we may seal the servants of our God upon their foreheads.'

[I believe the 6th seal was the unleashing of thermal-nuclear warfare in 1945 (a direct cross ref to rev 13:13) which thermal-nuclear warfare has been paused (7:1) but will un-pause when the 7th seal is broken, then another (shorter) pause, while the angels with the 7 trumpets of God line up (8:1).. Verse 7:16 says upon those sealed on their forehead "the sun will not beat down on them, nor any heat" - i can't help thinking a form of fire - the sealed ones are still upon planet earth during the trumpets - 9:4]

i'm thinking we will know when the 7th seal is broken (opening the scroll further) when a thermal-nuclear incident occurs.. whether one or more than one.. than a kind of pause again, but not as long as between 1945 and the occurrence(when the 7th seal is broken).. [Rev 6:12-7:17]

[marie glen]

I believe the plagues are literal and by the hand of God- "Let my people go that they may worship me".

"Let my people go that they may worship me". :trampoline: :cloud9:

If your name is written in the Lamb's book of life, you arent thrown into the lake of fire as I read it -symbolically, spiritually or othrwise. :2c:

Amen!!  :iagree: I'm wondering what everyone/anyone thinks it takes to be written in the (Lamb's) book of life?
      ?         or, oops, would that be :offtopic: ?

And  the curse of adam..

Gen 3:19   In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return.

  Thanking God we are more than   just dust

   I heartily agree!! :gimmefive: we R loved by Him..  :cloud9:

[rosered]

Thanks sista Marie , for the encouragment   :girlheart:
I read an artical   called Children of the Flame  ,  from dayspring from on High 
Lovely , put together very well many of those writings Bless , have you ever read any of them ?
I like the crystal sea  as well  , first time I discoved this site was when I was wondering what Jesus did to the blind man seeing men walking as trees , well lo and  behold , there was a writing on  men as trees walking  , I know its not excactly  what most would expect  , but I stil found it to be wonderful and informative

http://dayspringfromonhigh.com/