Tentmaker Forum

 
Bro J and I were on another thread and He said it would be interesting to go though these plagues  and I thought , it   sure would
  just what does it mean in Rev 15 and  16 to experience them  as Gods wrath on ''Her ''  and those held captive in her

For me overcoming  is done by [perfect ] complete faith in Gods Word by HIS SPIRIT


The Song of Moses and of the Lamb
15 Then I saw in heaven another marvelous event of great significance. Seven angels were holding the seven last plagues, which would bring God's wrath to completion.


2 I saw before me what seemed to be a glass sea mixed with fire.


And on it stood all the people who had been victorious over the beast and his statue and the number representing his name. They were all holding harps that God had given them.

3 And they were singing the song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb:

"Great and marvelous are your works,
    O Lord God, the Almighty.
Just and true are your ways,
    O King of the nations.[a]
4 Who will not fear you, Lord,
    and glorify your name?
    For you alone are holy.
All nations will come and worship before you,
    for your righteous deeds have been revealed."

The Seven Bowls of the Seven Plagues
5 Then I looked and saw that the Temple in heaven,

God's Tabernacle, was thrown wide open.


6 The seven angels who were holding the seven plagues came out of the Temple. They were clothed in spotless white linen with gold sashes across their chests.


7 Then one of the four living beings handed each of the seven angels a gold bowl filled with the wrath of God, who lives forever and ever.


8 The Temple was filled with smoke from God's glory and power. No one could enter the Temple until the seven angels had completed pouring out the seven plagues.

Lots to ponder on the  7 angels and the 7 last plagues that fill  up  to the end

Anyone like to start   this ?

rosie, i'll take down my thread i started haha..we were anxious, huh?   :laughing7:

 
I see rosie you're identifying the last 7 plagues.   You got it going already!   :thumbsup:

I had said this in the one I'd started but is now kapoot.

"What do you believe "come out of her my people" is telling us to come out of?

What do you believe the warning of not participating in her sin and suffering the plagues means exactly?          In essence, exactly "what" will people suffer, if they stay "where"? "

 

 

  It would have been great for you to keep that post Bro J
  I would have just added this on oe maybe just   joined in on yours  :Peace2:

   you asked  here Bro J

QuoteWhat do you believe the warning of not participating in her sin and suffering the plagues means exactly?   

and

QuoteIn essence, exactly "what" will people suffer, if they stay "where"? "

For me Bro J  , I dont have all the answers  , but am very comforted in a few things I can share   here with  believing  that  scriptures   tell the truth about it and we have to   believe it  , she  made   every nation  drink from the wine of wrath  of  her fornication
  so everyone has been trapped by Her   works /wine  found described in Proverbs 5 and 6

Big clue for me was when John the Revelator    was marvelling and in awe of her splender  in the earth and the Angel     corrected him  ,   we are decived  by her glory  , till the angel speaks into our ears  , I believe the message  with  the stong voice is the Lord Jesus Christ and its His word /seed  that frees us from her   , its the Big church[man made ]  and all her daughters  [doctrines of men ] 

  we being delivered out of her single handedly by the Lord himself 
  I believe I personally suffered for  going into Babylon   in my own youth   and  felt Gods wrath upon me by guilt
  from sin and  spiritual pride  , there are lots of things more  to be shared but will ''quiet for now ''

And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last(G2078 eschatos- finishing, ending)plagues;(G4127plege-wound, stripe)  for in them is filled up(G5055teleo-finish,fulfill,pay) the wrath of God.
(Rev 15:1)

the firstbowl..painful sores and spots...in contrast to His true beleivers...without spot or blemish...spiritully speaikng.......

scabby sores on the head/crown  Isaih 3;16,17  the women of Zion are haughty,walking along with outstretched necks

  flirting with their eyes,tripping along with mincing steps,with ornaments jingling on their ankles.Therefore the Lord will

bring sores on the head of the women of Zion,the Lord will make their scalps bald.   Since a woman's hair is her glory

from the Lord..spiritually speaking....it speaks of shamefulness.   I also find it strange that syphyllis in 15th-19th century

resulted in painful sore and baldness,so much so,that wigs were high fashion and the custom..as the natural.


   It is also not lost on me..the past custom of a woman covering her head...and beginning in 1950's-1960's it become

  the custom of uncovering the woman's head.  I take this as the time of testing of jealousy..where the womans head is

uncovered. If she be faithful...the written curses will not harm her..and she conceive a son[manchild]

  if her heart be turned away in unfaithfulness..her belly would swell..her thigh fall away.Isaaih 47;2 Take off your veil,  lift up your

skirts; uncover the thigh,and wade through the streams,your nakedness will be exposed,and your shaame uncovered.=

[scabby crown/head, fallen away thigh= spiritual ugliness,instead of spiritual beauty


   He says to her...I was angry with my people,and desecreated my inheritance;I gave them into your hand and you

showed them no mercy...so His calling us out is the end of His wrath against His people..and His wrath is now centered

on her....for the way she treated you.

  Babylon is a spirit cage of unclean spirits,pride,fornication,adultery,idolatry,majic practicing witch-craft,Jezebel spirit...

that instills terror[Isaaih 47;12]  She lives in shameless luxury and instills terror.[she does not extend her hands to the

poor,as the virtuous woman/capable wife does/bride]  the contrast is there of what appeals to God as beauty of spirit


   these are just some of my ideas..nd contemplations...things I have gleaned from the scriptures.

Good thoughts.

Since Babel literally means confusion, isn't it possible Babylon may indeed include (at least certain parts of) mainstream Christianity (if so, why, what qualifies them?), but also include other world systems that "churches" may be hooked into/caught up in?   A general sort of world system, that is actually controlled by "the god of this world"?  2 Cor. 4:4

sheila you said "Babylon is a spirit cage of unclean spirits,pride,fornication,adultery,idolatry,majic practicing witch-craft,Jezebel spirit...

that instills terror[Isaaih 47;12]  She lives in shameless luxury and instills terror.[she does not extend her hands to the poor,as the virtuous woman/capable wife does/bride]".     ...on one hand, that doesn't really sound like mainstream Christianity to me, at least as a whole  :dunno2:...  also, some say the catholic church is involved here, but they do a lot of charitable works which may bring into question "does not extend her hand to the poor"... on the other hand, it makes me wonder if God is displeased with society and the "church world" in general though, due to a great falling away (you mentioned the 50's/60's - I for one don't recognize America anymore, and I don't think most of the rest of the world is any better)... i have more questions/wonderings than answers

another thing,regarding the 'falling away' and Jude speaking of certain men slipped in...spots and blemishes in your

love feast. And Paul..crying about certain men..who would not treat the flock with tenderness..this,too, is in regard

to Babylon nd how she treated you. The Jezebel spirit..is thrown into a sickbed  of suffering..aand children struck dead.

      He says , then all the churches will know that I am He who searches hearts and minds.

I beleive she is a  female spirit  counterpoint to the prince of this world.   wickedness in a basket with a lead lid on it

carried to it's place in the land of Shinar[Babylon] I beleive they both permeate the whole earth,at every level,and

we know it as ..corruption...the very image of the corruptible one.

a stricken spirit is rotteness to the bones.  Zechariah 14;12   THIS IS THE PLAGUE WITH WHICH THE LORD WILL


..........STRIKE.........ALL THE NATIONS THAT FIGHT AGAINST JERUSALEM.  THEIR FLESH WILL ROT[Corruption]

  WHILE THEY ARE STILL STANDING ON THEIR FEET,THEIR EYES WILL ROT IN THEIR SOCKETS..

  AND THEIR TONGUES WILL ROT IN THEIR MOUTHS

Quote from: sheila on April 17, 2013, 05:53:01 AM
I beleive she is a  female spirit  counterpoint to the prince of this world.   wickedness in a basket with a lead lid on it

carried to it's place in the land of Shinar[Babylon] I beleive they both permeate the whole earth,at every level,and

we know it as ..corruption...the very image of the corruptible one.

I agree. In Daniel she is the head of Gold. In Revelation she is Sodom and Egypt. In Kings she is Jezebel(corrupter) and to Ahab(thief and murderer). In Isaiah 59 she is Rahab the dragon. In Jeremiah 44 she is the queen of heaven.

In Isaiah 1, she has filled Jerusalem with her sorceries and the prophetic voice speaks to call His people out of her.

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it. How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers. Thy silver is become dross, thy wine mixed with water: Thy princes are rebellious, and companions of thieves: every one loveth gifts, and followeth after rewards: they judge not the fatherless, neither doth the cause of the widow come unto them. Therefore saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts, the mighty One of Israel, Ah, I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies: And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and take away all thy tin: And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city.
(Isa 1:18-26)

Come out of her, be a clean and separate people.

  Amen   , love the input  brothers and sisters
  the image of the corruptible [ man ]   
old  Adam  is the living soul  and it  must be   put to death [man of sin ] bearing the corruptible image   created on the 6 day and works of man   , being born again of the  SEED /Word of God  being   the new creature in Christ this new life/soul  is joined  to/with  the Spirit of the Living God   Hebrews 4
we rest in hope and  Gods glory to be revealed and we have faith He will DO IT .


4 God's promise of entering his rest still stands, so we ought to tremble with fear that some of you might fail to experience it.

2 For this good news—that God has prepared this rest—has been announced to us just as it was to them. But it did them no good because they didn't share the faith of those who listened to God.[a] 3 For only we who believe can enter his rest. As for the others, God said,

"In my anger I took an oath:
    'They will never enter my place of rest,'''

even though this rest has been ready since he made the world.


4 We know it is ready because of the place in the Scriptures where it mentions the seventh day: "On the seventh day God rested from all his work."[c] 5 But in the other passage God said, "They will never enter my place of rest."

6 So God's rest is there for people to enter,  but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God.


7 So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted:

"Today when you hear his voice,
    don't harden your hearts."

8 Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. 9 So there is a special rest[f] still waiting for the people of God. 10 For all who have entered into God's rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. 11 So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall.

12 For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.

13 Nothing in all creation is hidden from God. Everything is naked and exposed before his eyes, and he is the one to whom we are accountable.

this work of Babylon  is confusion and never rest ,  what a curse  to be under

   the Lord allows entry into rest  , to know peace and joy in the Holy Spirit

  you cannot have that serving the beast and the Whore of all the earth

I spent many years casting stones at the gates of Babylon.

I stood astride the wall and I cried out at the top of my voice, "Come ye out of her my people".

I stood in the gateway and I argued with the elders- exhorting them repeatedly, "It is time to go to Jerusalem."

By the rivers of Babylon I hung my harp, as my captors demanded of me songs. How could I sing the Lord's song in a foreign land?

I wept when I remembered Zion.

I wept when I meditated upon David's vow, "I will give myself no rest, not even sleep to my eyes, until I have found a dwelling place for the Lord of Hosts."

Then one day I heard the Voice. He said, "Linger here no longer, I did not call you to throw rocks at the walls of Babylon. I called to to return to Zion".

I marvelled. I laughed at my vanity. All the while I had been in Babylon, a griping dissatisfied Babylonian, trying to prove Zion from within the walls, or just outside the gates where I had encamped beside Babylon.

You cannot prove Zion from within, or just beside, Babylon -any more than you can resist moving into Sodom when your tent is pitched towards it.

I got up and I began to walk. I heard a new song in my heart.

"Therefore the redeemed of the Lord shall return and come with singing unto Zion"

After many months I began to see her there, on the sides of the north, beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth.

The closer I came the more I began to see others- they too were returning from many lands through which they had wandered.

They wore strange garb from many different nations. They spoke with accents hard to understand. They used different words to say the same things, and many of them regarded me with the same suspicion and reticence with which I regarded them.

Some turned away and began trekking back to the lands from which they sojourned.

"How can I abide someone who speaks like that and wears such outlandish clothing! Doesnt that one know I was a chief among my people?"

Ah sir, but, who WERE your people? Were they not the ones who held you in captivity and refused the song of your joyand liberty? Were they not the ones who rejected the Jubilee and held one another in debt and servitude? Did they not climb over one another and collect tolls at the gates and tax your food and wine?

I continued onward and the elevation began to rise. All the land around the holy mountain was bountiful and there were showers of blessings. I noticed in places as the climbing became more difficult that people had set up camps, rejoicing as if they had arrived- but I knew they had not.

Some of them shouted at me as I went by, "Why to you climb still my brother, come in drink honey and wine, for all around you can see the beauty of the Lord's land."

But I was stirred to press on. "Come let us return unto the Lord, for He has torn us but He will heal us. On the third day He will raise us up that we may live before Him."

Forgetting that which lay behind, good or ill, I pressed on toward the mark of the high call. I asked the Lord to make me leap upon hinds feet and go upon His high places. I wept with David, "O for a drink of water from the well that is in Jerusalem".

Several times I became lost, but I was gathered back my fellow travelers who saw me wandering out of the way. They cried to me from the heights, "THIS IS THE WAY, WALK YE THEREIN", and I was restored upo my journey.

I began to see the baggage left behind of others who had gone before me. I found myself helping, and being helped by.....strangers and aliens, pilgrims who were now becoming my friends and family. I stumbled many times but I was helped of the Lord and my help came by the hands of people with whom I would not have shared my bread just months before.

Here brother, let me help you there. Sister! Let me carry your child in my arms for awhile. Mother! Come over here, sit beside our fire while we rest for a bit. Laugh with us, or cry if you need, and we will cry with you.

I have been walking in this upward pathway now for some time. I am going to gather soon with the outcasts who have returned to the land of their fathers. I have heard the cry already, "BUILD UP, BUILD UP THE WALLS OF JERUSALEM".

I know my job. I am called to be a watchman upon the wall. I will scan the horizon because I know they will come when they hear- "THE GOD OF ISRAEL IS ENCAMPED AMONG HIS PEOPLE, AND HIS GLORY HAS RETURNED TO HIS TEMPLE".

They will come like a black cloud and cover the land and gather around the holy hill of the Lord. I will see among them people I knew in Babylon. I will see in their eyes the hatred of our freedom and our love. I will look up into the heavens and I will PRAY THAT GOD WOULD OPEN THOSE EYES, and I will stand or I will fall as the Lord God Almighty sees fit.

Then I will begathered with my fathers and my mothers and my sisters and my brothers and we will sit at a table with Abraham Isaac and Jacob and we will drink the fruit of the vine, and rejoice at the wedding feast of the Bride and the Lamb. We will celebrate the Jubilee of God until all are free,

For upon this mountain will I remove the veil that covers all the people.

A Psalm or Song for the sons of Korah. His foundation is in the holy mountains. The LORD loveth the gates of Zion more than all the dwellings of Jacob. Glorious things are spoken of thee, O city of God. Selah. I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon to them that know me: behold Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia; this man was born there. And of Zion it shall be said, This and that man was born in her: and the highest himself shall establish her. The LORD shall count, when he writeth up the people, that this man was born there. Selah. As well the singers as the players on instruments shall be there: all my springs are in thee.
(Psa 87:1-7)

Beloved, linger not around the gates of Babylon- even to cry her down. Go instead to beautiful Zion. Babylon will come to you there. She will surround you and when she does the Lord will stir Himself from His place and the glory of the Lord will shine until Babylon is your handmaiden, Assyria your carriage, the Egyptians will be your singers and all nations will bring their glory unto you singing, "Let us go unto the mountain of the Lord, to see His glory and to learn His ways".

O thou afflicted, tossed with tempest, and not comforted, behold, I will lay thy stones with fair colours, and lay thy foundations with sapphires. And I will make thy windows of agates, and thy gates of carbuncles, and all thy borders of pleasant stones. And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children.

In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.

Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake.

Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy. No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.
(Isa 54:7-17)

Psa 48:1-14
A Song and Psalm for the sons of Korah.

Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in the mountain of his holiness. Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King.

God is known in her palaces for a refuge.

For, lo, the kings were assembled, they passed by together. They saw it, and so they marvelled; they were troubled, and hasted away. Fear took hold upon them there, and pain, as of a woman in travail.

Thou breakest the ships of Tarshish with an east wind. As we have heard, so have we seen in the city of the LORD of hosts, in the city of our God: God will establish it for ever. Selah.

We have thought of thy lovingkindness, O God, in the midst of thy temple. According to thy name, O God, so is thy praise unto the ends of the earth: thy right hand is full of righteousness. Let mount Zion rejoice, let the daughters of Judah be glad, because of thy judgments.

Walk about Zion, and go round about her: tell the towers thereof. Mark ye well her bulwarks, consider her palaces; that ye may tell it to the generation following.

For this God is our God for ever and ever: he will be our guide even unto death.

Hos 6:3  "So let us know, let us press on to know the LORD. His going forth is as certain as the dawn; And He will come to us like the rain, Like the spring rain watering the earth."

 :thumbsup:

Quote from: eaglesway on April 17, 2013, 08:44:27 AM
Beloved, linger not around the gates of Babylon- even to cry her down. Go instead to beautiful Zion. Babylon will come to you there. .. "Let us go unto the mountain of the Lord, to see His glory and to learn His ways".

For this God is our God for ever and ever: he will be our guide even unto death.

Thanks eaglesway for taking the time to share so many Scriptures... and of course, I will print your entire post.  Of particular interest was Isaiah 54:7-14...I usually read all scripture verses quoted in context and to my great, great delight Isaiah 54:9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me; for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee---

reminded me to look deeper for the connection between the physical ark and the spiritual ark (Christ)...   there's must be a great connection... Jesus mentions the days of Noah in the same discourse as He shares (warns) about the tribulation.... (Matt 24)...

Sheila,
You are truly blessed with the Holy Spirit sister. You knit these posts together like a big beautiful quilt made of many different pieces.  :banana:

Lovely Bro John and Sister Anna , I love how you have  added perfectly 

I love this !  :HeartThrob:  Blessings to  you all 

     for being honest here  , I do believe that   I am still coming out of her ,  for this  whole day  of being here has helped me to see  just what a  strange way  the   scriptures and especially Jesus words  of warning   have helped me to  my feet   after stumbling along the way

  My first encounter while being in the hell fire and brimstone church where  condemnation and strong judgment   was the normal   teaching , the old adam  preacher was getting red  blasting out his nostrils in anger   at the  coming judgment on all  mankind  ,

if you could just see these connections  by the hidden name meanings and understand the hidden  glory of God on how much  the scriptures come ALIVE and breath in us   such truth   that sets us free from all the confusion [babylon ] by mixing
  what is of the earth and what is of heaven
  I find it facinating , because alot more scriptures  open up also  when reading  and meditating on Gods Word  and Spirit           found the connections amazing here

Gen 2:7 And the LORD 3068 God 430 formed 3335 man 120   [of] the dust 6083 of 4480 the ground 127, and breathed 5301 into his nostrils 639  the breath 5397 of life 2416; and man 120 became a living 2416 soul 5315.

nostrils  aph'  639
1) nostril, nose, face2) anger
from the root word 599 anash'    meanings
1) to be angry, to be displeased, to breathe hard

a) (Qal) to be angry (of God)

b) (Hithpael) to be angry (always of God)

Strong's H120 - 'adam
1) man, mankind
a) man, human being

b) man, mankind (much more frequently intended sense in OT)

c) Adam, first mand) city in Jordan valley

also from the root word 119 Strong's H119 - 'adam
1) to be red, red

a) (Qal) ruddy (of Nazarites)

b) (Pual)

1) to be rubbed red

2) dyed red

3) reddened

c) (Hiphil)

1) to cause to show red

2) to glare

3) to emit (show) redness

d) (Hithpael)

1) to redden

2) to grow red

3) to look red

so now we know that the fist adam  in all mankind  carries within the anger  and blast of nostrils

but the last adam  [Christ ]  being born from above and being the life giving Spirit   that is born also in us  is the merciful one   full of truth and grace 

I find the key words amazing to look into  , and so much confirmation   and help ! wow

Rose,
Nice touch with the red letters to emphasize red even more.  :banana:

Quote from: mplsfitter539 on April 17, 2013, 06:17:53 PM
Rose,
Nice touch with the red letters to emphasize red even more.  :banana:

Blessings  Bro mpls !
  yes the slip being the first adam not'' fist adam ''  lol , a play on words not meant to type
  but glad you can appreciate   the  contrast  :thumbsup:

Greetings! What a veryy nice thread to read! Like all of you, I have studied and pondered these things deeply seeking all the pertaining verses, cross references and original language while listening intently for what the Spirit saith.

It's amazing to me the simplicity of two capital cities! One, our mother, as Paul wrote in Galatians, is Jerusalem above, but even Jerusalem of this world, represents of course Godliness, or that is thhe recognition of God and a reverence of Him.

It's unfortunate we see such change in our world and even America is now embracing Godlessness, the other capital. It's my belief there's always been more believers of universal reconciliation thru the decades and centuries than have (unfortunately) dared to let on.

However, so much of the body has fallen into a Godless faith! They have given up what little of God's truth they had! And so we should come out of her, Babylon/the God-less woman. Now they accept the false teacher of the world and instead of knowing, death as an anomaly come about thru sin, they now teach the wind/hopelessness, that life is the anomaly.

This is doubly sad and tragic,  as when man rejects God, man becomes God, and they will look only to man to find the answers to the world's problems and will build a new golden head and cast their crowns to it, granting it godlike power, or that is to say, too much power, trusting man has progressed, and also viewing man as the highest power, convincing himself that man is God.

Blessings Sister Marie Glen ,

I agree with you ,   SHE has lived lavishly  and the Lord has given her plenty of space to repent 

feeding off the blood of the Lords precious saints [holy ones called to warn her ] and has many  bound   within her as prisoners   as God judges her as she judged  and its double/twice the sorrow  on her

  Rev 16:6 Since they shed the blood of your holy people and your prophets, you have given them blood to drink. It is their just reward." 

I always think of Pauls words about drinking   the Lords blood unworthyly  and how it brings judgment  on our own heads    when reading the above  verse

  to me they do  speak the same things


Rev 16:19 The great city of Babylon split into three sections, and the cities of many nations fell into heaps of rubble. So God remembered all of Babylon's sins, and he made her drink the cup that was filled with the wine of his fierce wrath. 

For her sins are piled as high as heaven, and God remembers her evil deeds.


Rev 18:6 Do to her as she has done to others. Double her penalty [fn] for all her evil deeds. She brewed a cup of terror for others, so brew twice as much [fn] for her.


She glorified herself and lived in luxury, so match it now with torment and sorrow. She boasted in her heart, 'I am queen on my throne. I am no helpless widow, and I have no reason to mourn.'Therefore, these plagues will overtake her in a single day— death and mourning and famine. She will be completely consumed by fire, for the Lord God who judges her is mighty."And the kings of the world who committed adultery with her and enjoyed her great luxury will mourn for her as they see the smoke rising from her charred remains.

 
I think of Jesus warnings to judge not unless you be judged
  and showing no mercy  and getting  no mercy 

and Judgement begins in the house of God ,  Idolatry   , fornication and  sin    are judged by the ones who judge  others
  so being in  with the bond woman and her son  , though they do torment the Issac  spiritual children  , it comes back upon their own heads  as dust [of adam ] and ashes ,and human effort  those fiery trials  of what works they are   wood , hay and stubble



And you, dear brothers and sisters, are children of the promise, just like Isaac. 


Gal 4:29 But you are now being persecuted by those who want you to keep the law, just as Ishmael, the child born by human effort, persecuted Isaac, the child born by the power of the Spirit.   


Gal 4:30 But what do the Scriptures say about that? "Get rid of the slave and her son, for the son of the slave woman will not share the inheritance with the free woman's son."     Gal 4:31 So, dear brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman; we are children of the free woman

  Thank you for bringing that up sis !   just awesome  ! God is so awesome !

Quote from: marie glen on April 17, 2013, 09:36:43 PM
Greetings! What a veryy nice thread to read! Like all of you, I have studied and pondered these things deeply seeking all the pertaining verses, cross references and original language while listening intently for what the Spirit saith.

It's amazing to me the simplicity of two capital cities! One, our mother, as Paul wrote in Galatians, is Jerusalem above, but even Jerusalem of this world, represents of course Godliness, or that is thhe recognition of God and a reverence of Him.

It's unfortunate we see such change in our world and even America is now embracing Godlessness, the other capital. It's my belief there's always been more believers of universal reconciliation thru the decades and centuries than have (unfortunately) dared to let on.

However, so much of the body has fallen into a Godless faith! They have given up what little of God's truth they had! And so we should come out of her, Babylon/the God-less woman. Now they accept the false teacher of the world and instead of knowing, death as an anomaly come about thru sin, they now teach the wind/hopelessness, that life is the anomaly.

This is doubly sad and tragic,  as when man rejects God, man becomes God, and they will look only to man to find the answers to the world's problems and will build a new golden head and cast their crowns to it, granting it godlike power, or that is to say, too much power, trusting man has progressed, and also viewing man as the highest power, convincing himself that man is God.

Greetings to you,too!!  I always read your posts knowing that I will be blessed...sometimes with a Scripture verse, sometimes with your personal input; and always with the manner in which you share.  Thanks so much.

This particular post reminded me of one of my favorite verses--the middle verse of the entire Bible:

Ps 118:8 (KJV)
It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man.

Ps 118:8 (my version)

man cannot fix man  only GOD can fix man.

Quote from: anna274 on April 17, 2013, 10:09:59 PM


This particular post reminded me of one of my favorite verses--the middle verse of the entire Bible:

Ps 118:8 (KJV)
It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man.

Ps 118:8 (my version)

man cannot fix man  only GOD can fix man.

:ty:   Wow! The middle verse! That seems like it makes us "sit up and really take notice"!!
               I like that! We really can rest in Him!! :gsmile:

Quote from: anna274 on April 17, 2013, 04:27:24 PM
Thanks eaglesway for taking the time to share so many Scriptures... and of course, I will print your entire post.  Of particular interest was Isaiah 54:7-14...I usually read all scripture verses quoted in context and to my great, great delight Isaiah 54:9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me; for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee---

reminded me to look deeper for the connection between the physical ark and the spiritual ark (Christ)...   there's must be a great connection... Jesus mentions the days of Noah in the same discourse as He shares (warns) about the tribulation.... (Matt 24)...

Yes, I think the ark of Noah and the secret place of the most high are the same. Noah's ark was the secret place for him and his family in his time.

What will it be in ours? "Today if you hear His voice...."

No man knows the day or the hour.....

Blessed is that servant whom the Lord finds so doing when He comes......

Come my children, hide in your rooms for a awhile, till my wrath is spent and the indignation is finished :o)

Rosered,  :hiya: and all..  This whole thread is very interesting! very many revealing verses.. and there were some things that really jumped out at me!

..."For her sins are piled as high as heaven, and God remembers her evil deeds."

..i can see her belligerently shaking her fist at heaven.. in this world, i can't help thinking the whole path the world has taken is a great offense, and is an unpleasant thing (it says, in the nostrils of God).. The world has declared "there is no God" and shakes its fist at God! But... all Praise to our Father, it's all part of His truth revealing drama.. this drama of the ages which all from the beginning are witnessing.. i find myself thinking that when she crashes, it will be a resounding crash.. from .."in one hour" .."the merchants who were made wealthy by the abundance of her charms will weep over her.." in all 7 nations which were "deceived by her sorcery".. "seduced by her harlotry"?

to, in one day.. "when the towers fall.." (Is 30:25) "the kings/politicians who were in bed with her.." as you quoted, will look upon her charred remains.. It's like what Jude wrote about Sodom and Gomorrah being examples of the 'ever' 'lasting' fire as it's been translated, we know erroneously. "The smoke" (memory? recollection?) "of it will rise up for ever and ever"..

"..the cup that she has mixed, let her drink double" ..her "golden cup full of perversions and fornication" ..a cup of the side effects of "the wine of her harlotry which made the nations drunk"... the side effects of lawlessness, disrespect, assaults, abominations, abortions, sex slave trade..

"the merchants will weep because no one buys their merchandise anymore, the luxuries, delicacies, necessities, cloths and spices and the bodies and 'souls' of men".. (male & female)

"the kings of the earth who lived luxuriously with her will weep and lament".. "all which grew rich by her".. "with violence the great city" (Godlessness) "shall be thrown down and not seen again.. no sound of a millstone will be heard in you again.." .."rejoice!! ..in her was found the blood of all slain upon earth.." [Her forehead (psyche?) is Babylon]



Eaglesway wrote,
(about Jerusalem) -- "..Babylon will come to you there. She will surround you and when she does the Lord will stir Himself from His place and the glory of the Lord will shine

Did they not climb over one another and collect tolls at the gates and tax your food and wine?

..begathered with my fathers and my mothers and my sisters and my brothers and we will sit at a table with Abraham Isaac and Jacob and we will drink the fruit of the vine, and rejoice at the wedding feast of the Bride and the Lamb. We will celebrate the Jubilee of God until all are free... ..For upon this mountain will I remove the veil that covers all the people."

Won't that be a great 'day'..!!

It sounds to me like it will be a loud collapse/destruction.. "come out of her, my people" ...lest you suffer the torments, of the results of her Godlessness? God-less-ness within any heart, surely, can only ever result in a self destructive puff of smoke..

Quote from: eaglesway on April 17, 2013, 11:03:03 PM

Quote from: anna274 on April 17, 2013, 04:27:24 PM

reminded me to look deeper for the connection between the physical ark and the spiritual ark (Christ)...   there's must be a great connection... Jesus mentions the days of Noah in the same discourse as He shares (warns) about the tribulation.... (Matt 24)...

Yes, I think the ark of Noah and the secret place of the most high are the same. Noah's ark was the secret place for him and his family in his time.

What will it be in ours? "Today if you hear His voice...."

No man knows the day or the hour.....

Blessed is that servant whom the Lord finds so doing when He comes......

Come my children, hide in your rooms for a awhile, till my wrath is spent and the indignation is finished :o)

:gsmile: :mthumbsup: ..amen, hide in Him..

Quote from: eaglesway on April 17, 2013, 11:03:03 PM

Quote from: anna274 on April 17, 2013, 04:27:24 PM
Thanks eaglesway for taking the time to share so many Scriptures... and of course, I will print your entire post.  Of particular interest was Isaiah 54:7-14...I usually read all scripture verses quoted in context and to my great, great delight Isaiah 54:9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me; for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee---

reminded me to look deeper for the connection between the physical ark and the spiritual ark (Christ)...   there's must be a great connection... Jesus mentions the days of Noah in the same discourse as He shares (warns) about the tribulation.... (Matt 24)...

Yes, I think the ark of Noah and the secret place of the most high are the same. Noah's ark was the secret place for him and his family in his time.

What will it be in ours? "Today if you hear His voice...."

No man knows the day or the hour.....

Blessed is that servant whom the Lord finds so doing when He comes......

Come my children, hide in your rooms for a awhile, till my wrath is spent and the indignation is finished :o)

Oh my, I'm getting ready for a short vacation away from my computer, but decided to do a final check of recent posts and found this one of yours... and I am so happy I did...  you have given me  a "connection" that I would very probably never have even considered had YOU not shared this "connection"... I value your input because I find it always Scripturally sound. 

I very carefully filed your post  under NEEDS IMMEDIATE ATTENTION... after my vacation, that is.

..have a great vacation! :hiya: (you're a very gracious lady i have seen, in your posts)



..I came back to say.. Babylon, to me is all untruth.. so to me, parts of the Church are in there..

Have a Happy Holiday!  :laughing7:

"come OUT of her my people.."

...because it will be a resounding crash of mankind's ways and empire, I agree, it's vitally important that believers ("our little sister which has no breasts" / sorry i don't usually talk like that!) vitally important they come out of babylon for they have become babylon.. even tho she rides on the beast's back right now, it's his ten horns which will burn and devour her and her crash will not be pleasant. May we pray more and more (believers in this case) look up and see the rays of God's affection and enter instead his ark of calm and peace and abide there..

"come OUT of her my people.."

P.S - "in one day her (the) plagues will come"

2Pe 3:8
(8)  But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.

 :sigh: I find whenever someone mentions the last book of the Bible, so many assume (#1) the one making mention is scared and nervous about it, (#2) is speaking of it as being imminent, or (#3) is hysterical. Yet the book itself says "blessed the ones who read, and the ones who hear" (in all humility i can't help but think this may imply someone is speaking it, since to many it is a closed and sealed book, yet He does unseal it as the days approach even if they be a ways off in the distance, according to man's seeing of time "to Him a thousand yrs is as a day" - i may not see it as imminent, but..)

I say this next as intro, I don't deny that the Word and life is allegory (with spiritual meaning that lasts always, so superior to the literal) but if His crucifixion and resurrection is literal, and history was literal, why would future and prophecy be only allegory? And if it were, where do we draw the line as to what actually occurred and what didn't? And why would He only provide prophecy for a part of time, and none pertaining to the last almost 2000 years..?

..a 1000 years to Him is "like" a day.. Please let me humbly mention these following verses,

"When you" (individual?) "see Jerusalem surrounded by armies.." .."when you" (individual?) "see the abomination which desolates, set-up" ..

"end of the age" - after 70a.d. Israel was not for almost 2000 yrs - "when you see the fig tree blossom" - (and surely there will be an actual end of this increasingly wicked and Godless age of very modern man?? The modern western civilization since Christ ascended, now called post Christian, implying a falling away.)

"watch therefor"
"give them food in due season"
"shall not live by bread alone but by every, word of God"
"what God speaks to you in private, speak from the rooftops"
"if the watchman see the sword coming and not give warning.."
"there comes a day when no man can work" and "a dirth of the Word".

Rev chapters 17 and 18 (whole) describe exactly what to come out of.. that they not suffer her plagues.. false religion may be part of her, that crashes, but not the total.. To me, I can't help but think that the idea that our loving Father will condemn to horror those who believe in Him, but have some doctrinal points wrong.. is almost as illogical as the blasphemy called 'hell'. I believe God has repeatedly told me there cometh a crash (the fall of her will be great) and a collapse of man's modern world (which where we are now) is going global. "In the day when the towers fall.." Fall where? Into the streets. "Come out". "There comes a day when no man can work" and "a dirth of the Word". Imo, I see no reason to delay communicating Bible prophecy, and I also think the more of His own who understand it the (vastly?) better. :gsmile:

Are you of the belief this world system will endure, because it will be redeemed by the Lord's people?

Marie you said, Are you of the belief this world system will endure, because it will be redeemed by the Lord's people?
After giving this some serious thought this makes the most sense of all things considered to this point. As the Sons of God come to life at the end of this age they (sons of God) will begin to transform through Christ those whom they already are in contact with. IMO you can sum up your future work in the kingdom of God beginning with yourself and then those on first level of contact. I guess that is to say you have a part in making the nest that you must sleep in (rest). Focus on God's goals, the things God is focused on, and it just gets clearer every day. :banana:

Quote from: marie glen on April 19, 2013, 05:22:38 PM
:sigh: I find whenever someone mentions the last book of the Bible, so many assume (#1) the one making mention is scared and nervous about it, (#2) is speaking of it as being imminent, or (#3) is hysterical. Yet the book itself says "blessed the ones who read, and the ones who hear" (in all humility i can't help but think this may imply someone is speaking it, since to many it is a closed and sealed book, yet He does unseal it as the days approach even if they be a ways off in the distance, according to man's seeing of time "to Him a thousand yrs is as a day" - i may not see it as imminent, but..)

I say this next as intro, I don't deny that the Word and life is allegory (with spiritual meaning that lasts always, so superior to the literal) but if His crucifixion and resurrection is literal, and history was literal, why would future and prophecy be only allegory? And if it were, where do we draw the line as to what actually occurred and what didn't? And why would He only provide prophecy for a part of time, and none pertaining to the last almost 2000 years..?

..a 1000 years to Him is "like" a day.. Please let me humbly mention these following verses,

"When you" (individual?) "see Jerusalem surrounded by armies.." .."when you" (individual?) "see the abomination which desolates, set-up" ..

"end of the age" - after 70a.d. Israel was not for almost 2000 yrs - "when you see the fig tree blossom" - (and surely there will be an actual end of this increasingly wicked and Godless age of very modern man?? The modern western civilization since Christ ascended, now called post Christian, implying a falling away.)

"watch therefor"
"give them food in due season"
"shall not live by bread alone but by every, word of God"
"what God speaks to you in private, speak from the rooftops"
"if the watchman see the sword coming and not give warning.."
"there comes a day when no man can work" and "a dirth of the Word".

Rev chapters 17 and 18 (whole) describe exactly what to come out of.. that they not suffer her plagues.. false religion may be part of her, that crashes, but not the total.. To me, I can't help but think that the idea that our loving Father will condemn to horror those who believe in Him, but have some doctrinal points wrong.. is almost as illogical as the blasphemy called 'hell'. I believe God has repeatedly told me there cometh a crash (the fall of her will be great) and a collapse of man's modern world (which where we are now) is going global. "In the day when the towers fall.." Fall where? Into the streets. "Come out". "There comes a day when no man can work" and "a dirth of the Word". Imo, I see no reason to delay communicating Bible prophecy, and I also think the more of His own who understand it the (vastly?) better. :gsmile:

Are you of the belief this world system will endure, because it will be redeemed by the Lord's people?

I agree with most that :o) Except perhaps, I think Peter wasn't saying "like". I think he was saying "as".

8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.(NKJV)

(Another one of those sticky little translation issues I guess :o)




But he was referencing TIME, I agree with that, and that WE SHOULD BE PATIENT- because God looks at time from the inside out- we look from the outside in. We see the skin of the sphere- He dwells at the core and, imo, sees EVERY MOMENT at once.

But don't get me wrong. i am not a preterist. I believe in the historical fulfillment of the end times prophecies. The problem I see is this,
just to explain how I "see" and "hear" these things.........

As one example.....

John spoke of "anti-Christs" that are already in the world.

We miss out on "the principle of anti-christ" because we are looking for some anti-christ in the future. Every president for the last 50 years has been somebodies "anti-Christ", even tho the scriptures CLEARLY state in SEVERAL PLACES(for a literalist/historical view) that he will come with false signs and wonders, works of satanic power and be accompnanied by his own "false prophet".

Meanwhile, the spirit of anti-Christ is working in our midst EVRYDAY and we dont see it, because we have missed the fact that the MAJORITY of texts referencing eschatology are ACTIVE IN THE NOW and have been since they were written. As I have said before, IMO John's Revelation is written to the churches. it is fundamentally about the church age and a revelation of God "coming down out of the heavens adorned in white linen as a Bride for her Bridegroom". The church age is a historical dispensation but, as far as where we are in it historically, "no man knows the day or the hour". The disciples asked Jesus, "When is the kingdom gonna come", He replied(prphse)- "It is not for you to kno the times that are within the Father's purvview, you go wait in Jerusalem until you be endued with power from on high". They were intent upon "the when", Jesus was intent upon "THE NOW".

The same principle, or "example" applies to Babylon or the New Jerusalem and a dozen other time transcendant 'spiritual icons' that have historical implications(beginnings, periodic manifestations and endings)- we have to recognize them and respond to them in the NOW, TODAY. IMO that is primary. The rest is secondary. We know the "season" seems upon us. The "hour" seems late. But we ought not be distrated into it, we ought to be waiting upon the Lord, hidden in the secret place, lanterns full, with extra vessels of oil.

Fact is, most "literalists" don't care what the word literally says if it interferes with whatever they are currently excited about from their present perspective.

IMO, we are to be seeking the Lord, preparing to be "anointed" to do His works in the earth- not worrying about which of the latest geo-political developements is the next or last trumpet or bowl. WE DO PAY ATTENTION to events in the world around us, but IMO, it is a distraction as a CORE FOCUS from our CORE MISSION which is to walk with Christ as ministers of reconciliation IN OUR GENERATION. To do that we have to listen to....."Today if you hear His voice" and....."Let the one who has ears to hear HEAR WHAT THE SPIRIT IS SAYING TO THE CHURCHES and....and speaking with His voice, "the Spirit and the Bride SAY COME".

For instance, for a literalist, the antiChrist of Daniel, John and Paul is a sorcerer. He does not have the natural love for a woman. He comes to power through a coup or some such  takeover of a government that is most likely European. He takes over the holy land and sets himself up to be worshipped in the temple. He institutes the mark of the beast, he exalts himself above every God and so-called God........   No one as yet comes close, at least I would say since Hitler, who was a proto type "antichrist" in germany as a political and spiritual leadr- but a toddler compared to what the real "anti-Christ will be at the time of the end(IMO). A deceiver so slick, Jesus warns that "EVEN THE VERY ELECT COULD BE DECEIVED". People want to say this is lukewarm Christians and such. I think Jesus meant JUST WHAT HE SAID> EVEN THE VERY ELECT. So I agree with you that it is not as "imminent", in the historical sense as some think BUT, IT IS TOTALLY IMMINENT IN OUR GENERATION IN THE CHURCH so I tend to focus on the broader SPIRITUAL REVELATIONS BEING SPOKEN NOW to us as believers as opposed to dancing around the fires of speculation that arise after every major sign in the earth or the heavens.

If we hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches NOW, TODAY we will be ready for ANYTHING. If we do not hear what the SPIRT IS SAYING to the churches TODAY- we will not be prepared, EVEN IF WE SHOULD HEAR THE CRY- THE BRIDEGROOM COMES.
EVEN IF HE WERE TO TELL US THE DAY AND THE HOUR- which of course, He won't :o)

Because the lesson is to abide in Christ and walk in the Spirit moment by moment, taking no thought for tomoro. living as the sparrow, sowinf trust and reaping peace-----Every one in the world is running to and fro and knowledge is increasing exponentially, but to to us, and through us, God is saying, "Be still and kno that I am God".


1 God is our refuge and strength,
    an ever-present help in trouble.
2 Therefore we will not fear, though the earth give way
    and the mountains fall into the heart of the sea,
3 though its waters roar and foam
    and the mountains quake with their surging.[c]


4 There is a river whose streams make glad the city of God,
    the holy place where the Most High dwells.
5 God is within her, she will not fall;
    God will help her at break of day.
6 Nations are in uproar, kingdoms fall;
    he lifts his voice, the earth melts.


7 The Lord Almighty is with us;
    the God of Jacob is our fortress.


8 Come and see what the Lord has done,
    the desolations he has brought on the earth.
9 He makes wars cease
    to the ends of the earth.
He breaks the bow and shatters the spear;
    he burns the shields[d] with fire.
10 He says, "Be still, and know that I am God;
    I will be exalted among the nations,
    I will be exalted in the earth."


11 The Lord Almighty is with us;
    the God of Jacob is our fortress.

Quote from: mplsfitter539 on April 19, 2013, 06:40:32 PM
Marie you said, Are you of the belief this world system will endure, because it will be redeemed by the Lord's people?
After giving this some serious thought this makes the most sense of all things considered to this point. As the Sons of God come to life at the end of this age they (sons of God) will begin to transform through Christ those whom they already are in contact with. IMO you can sum up your future work in the kingdom of God beginning with yourself and then those on first level of contact. I guess that is to say you have a part in making the nest that you must sleep in (rest). Focus on God's goals, the things God is focused on, and it just gets clearer every day. :banana:

You said it better faster LOLOL

  I am just going to add this as a consideration   only ,
 
and what   thoughts have come up   thinking and pondering this part of the "rest in the Lord " as a Day and 1000 years  reign of Christ 

  for me Jesus has said , its so simple a child could understand it , and to me thats ' the little child  of innocence "   trusting in the Lords work  , a perfect and complete work at that . with no  human  hands  at all involved  nor human minds can understand the work and glory of God  , for the carnal mind is the emnity against the Spirit  , and the Word and Spirit of God is what does  everything  in His plan  to the perfect END , and the End is salvation to all  ,  by the JESUS CHRIST [corperatly[the gathering  to ONE   ]     
I believe Daniels   entering  rest  was going on into   the Body of Christ   as Christ [meaning annointed]   Jesus  meaning salvation of YAH           Daniel  is no longer doing the works but the LORD IS  ,  THIS DAY [DAY OF THE LORD ]  is the 1000  years
   for me its clues were     that Adam lived 930 years  , works of  man and  Babylon works 70 years of  captivity    , they both equa= l 1000  years , being works of mans  hands against the WORD and Spirit of the Living God

    many will not agree  with  this and thats fine , but its something so sweet and simple  and  I can see truth in it , and its  a comfort for me to know that  the gathering and "rest "  is  going on right now   as the Lord gathers into Himself    those whom have entered His rest  , Jesus confirms this with His own Words Come all you  who are heavy ladden and I will give you rest from your souls [lives ]   , just consider it , for I have and it gives  great peace   

I started typing out a response but erased it, probably because I knew yours would pretty much embody mine EW :laughing7:  I agree with most of what you wrote there. 

The only thing I disagree with is that I don't think there will be a literal anti-christ singular.  I personally see it as my natural self. 

I see that Daniels, Habbakuks, Zechariahs, Jeremiahs,Exekiels etc., prophecies(coming of Christ, replacement of Levititcal priests by the sons of Zadok, 70 years captivity, restoration of Israel by Cyrus, etc.) were fulfilled literally and spiritually. I think there is a literal and spiritual fulfillment to most of these things. Nebuchadnezars dream  of the statue with the golden head, has been, and still is, being literally being fulfilled- and spiritually being fulfilled as well- the little stone is still rollin up the world till all be fulfilled :o).....
so I apply that rule through out the scriptures and it works for me. I just cant see the figure Paul speaks of  when he says, "the day of the Lord will not come until the son of lawlessness is manifested", and as coming "with all deceiving signs and wonders of the devil" - as being me, since we were all born as adversaries in Adam, and few if any of us have done those things, even though those "principles" and "spirits" have worked in most of us at one time or another.

:2c:

Beauty for ashes......the subsequent fall of Babylon in it's reduction to ashes...precludes the coming Beauty of God.

   Isaaih 61;  the yEAR OF THE lORD'S FAVOUR......THE ANOINTING..TO BIND UP THE BROKEN-HEARTED

   TO PROCLAIM FREEDOM FOR THE CAPTIVES[IN BABYLON BONDAGE] AND RELEASE FROM DARKNESS FOR THE

   PRISONERS..TO PROCLAIM THE YEAR OF THE LORD'S FAVOUR,AND THE DAY OF VENEGEANCE OF OUR GOD

  TO COMFORT ALL WHO MOURN,AND PROVIDE FOR ALL WHO GREIVE IN ZION


   TO BESTOW ON THEM A CROWN OF BEAUTY INSTEAD OF ASHES,THE OIL OF GLADNESS INSTEAD OF

MOURNING,A GARMENT OF PRAISE INSTEAD A SPIRIT OF DEPAIR


   IT IS THE LORD TEARING DOWN AND PLANTING...THE WORK OF HIS HANDS...THAT WILL RESULT IN A GARMENT

OF PRAISE..INSTAED OFTHE  DESPAIR OF ALL THE ATROCITIES DONE IN THE NAME OF GOD..BY MEN OF

LALWLESSNESS AND SIN...........

  THE WHOLE CREATIONS GROANING FOR THE REVEALING OF THESE 'SONS' OF  GOD...THE PLANTING OF

HIS HANDS..EVEN THE TREE ON BOTH SIDES OF THE RIVER ..THAT LEAVES ARE FOR THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS

AND BEARS FRUIT EVERY MONTH.  THE BUDDING OF THE LEAVES OF THE TOL IS FOR THE HEALING OF THE NTIONS

THE FRUITAGE OF HIS HOLY SPIRIT TO SUSTAIN ETERNAL LIFE...DOES NOT FAIL TO RESULT IN PRAISE OF

GOD AS A GARMENT OF GLORY.  THERE IS NO DEATH IN THE WATERS OF LIFE..NO STREAM BUBBLING FORTH

  THE BITTER AND SWEET..SUCH AS THE CONDEMNATION OF MEN AND PRAISE OF GOD OUT OF THE

SAME MOUTH. THE SWEET BRANCH IN THE BITTER WATERS REMOVES THE CURSE OF 'DEATH' IN THE POT

OF THE COMPANY OF PROPHETS.

  THERE IS NO LIARS PIRIT OF ABOMINATION IN THE HOLY CITY THAT DESOLATES THE TEMPLE[MAN] OF GOD

THERE IS THE LIGHT ND THE OIL SHINING IN A PLACE OF FORMER DARKNESS. GOD AND THE LAMB  IS IN HER

   THE SALVATION OF MAN IS THE GLORY OF GOD..THAT MAN SHOULD BEAR HIS IMAGE.......THAT THE

WHOLE CREATION SHOULD NO LONGER GROAN..BUT OFFER UP PRAISE UNTO HIM WITH GREAT JOY,AS

A GARMENT OF PRAISE

    zEPH 3;20 jEREMIAH 29;14.....AT THAT TIME I WILL BRING YOU HOME......THE SEEKING OF A DWELLING PLACE IN

HIM[O'IMMANUEL] A CITY NOT BUILT BY HUMAN HANDS..PLACE PREPARED..THE WORK OF HIS HANDS..JUST

AS THE STONE NOT MADE OF HUMAN HANDS DESTROYED THAT WHICH NEED BE...THAT BEAUTY MAY BESTOWED

INSTEAD OF ASHES. ALL TO THE GLORY AND PRAISE OF HIS NAME

redhotmagma, you said I don't think there will be a literal anti-christ singular.  I personally see it as my natural self.
This is how I see it also. You have to take Revelation personal to a point where it is speaking directly to you.  :banana:

I don't think I can continue on here.. the thinking to me makes no sense.. everything in the Bible is me..? that's cancelling out what God is doing.. The whole human race (and the angels are watching) is chewing upon the knowing of good from evil.. and it's not just in our minds.. I have to think many are turning away from here with only allegory and not literal understanding of God's Word. And there's no conversation.. it's just "you're wrong, and this is how you're wrong".

I'm going to post one more thing, a study.. please if anyone will, please read it and consider. Possibly without the preconceived.. Keep in mind, it's not that I believe the manchild theory is wrong, I just think the interpretation is from the wrong place in the scriptures.. I was thinking for a short while that we could communicate and see if there was allegorical/within interpretation plus literal world and world stage interpretation.. but I'm thinking probably not.. did anyone reread rev chapters 17 and 18?? What about the new heavens and the new earth? is that only within also? I suppose it's all personal interpretation.. relative.. why all the visions of revelation? why not just say what God's Spirit was (supposedly) saying? Didn't seem to have much trouble elsewhere..  :dontknow:  :eek:

Quote from: marie glen on April 19, 2013, 10:05:50 PM
I don't think I can continue on here.. the thinking to me makes no sense.. everything in the Bible is me..? that's cancelling out what God is doing.. The whole human race (and the angels are watching) is chewing upon the knowing of good from evil.. and it's not just in our minds.. I have to think many are turning away from here with only allegory and not literal understanding of God's Word. And there's no conversation.. it's just "you're wrong, and this is how you're wrong".

I'm going to post one more thing, a study.. please if anyone will, please read it and consider. Possibly without the preconceived.. Keep in mind, it's not that I believe the manchild theory is wrong, I just think the interpretation is from the wrong place in the scriptures.. I was thinking for a short while that we could communicate and see if there was allegorical/within interpretation plus literal world and world stage interpretation.. but I'm thinking probably not.. did anyone reread rev chapters 17 and 18?? What about the new heavens and the new earth? is that only within also? I suppose it's all personal interpretation.. relative.. why all the visions of revelation? why not just say what God's Spirit was (supposedly) saying? Didn't seem to have much trouble elsewhere..  :dontknow:  :eek:

Hi Marie
  not everything in the bible is me 
its   everything in the Bible is the GLORY of God  being revealed     the Spirit and Truth   in the earth[ mankind ]

  I certainly will consider you new post
  Blessings

..thank-you

Amen Sista Shelia , its all about the Glory of GOD    revealed in the earth

and the new heavens and earth shall glorify  His Holy Name  :dsunny:

Quote from: mplsfitter539 on April 19, 2013, 09:45:13 PM
redhotmagma, you said I don't think there will be a literal anti-christ singular.  I personally see it as my natural self.
This is how I see it also. You have to take Revelation personal to a point where it is speaking directly to you.  :banana:

Perhaps, but not to the point of canceling out every other voice.

The problem is poles and opposites. The word is clearly full of types and shadows that speak to our hearts where we are inside.

A parable is different than a proverb but they both have there place.

An exhortation is different than a mystery- but they both have their place.

Why pit one against the other? They are two sides of one coin!

How can anyone eliminate the historical voice of the scripture!

How can anyone eliminate the literal voice of the scripture!

How can anyone eliminate the types and shadows of the scripture, or the apocalpyse(revelation) and musterion(mystery)!

Really i don't get it. It is not either/or, it is all of the above- and if it isnt, you may be missing something you really need.

  Thanks Bro John    :HeartThrob: , 
I needed that too  :ty:    awesome   truths

YW, Rosered :o)

Quote from: eaglesway on April 20, 2013, 02:25:36 AM

Quote from: mplsfitter539 on April 19, 2013, 09:45:13 PM
redhotmagma, you said I don't think there will be a literal anti-christ singular.  I personally see it as my natural self.
This is how I see it also. You have to take Revelation personal to a point where it is speaking directly to you.  :banana:

Perhaps, but not to the point of canceling out every other voice.

The problem is poles and opposites. The word is clearly full of types and shadows that speak to our hearts where we are inside.

A parable is different than a proverb but they both have there place.

An exhortation is different than a mystery- but they both have their place.

Why pit one against the other? They are two sides of one coin!

How can anyone eliminate the historical voice of the scripture!

How can anyone eliminate the literal voice of the scripture!

How can anyone eliminate the types and shadows of the scripture, or the apocalpyse(revelation) and musterion(mystery)!

Really i don't get it. It is not either/or, it is all of the above- and if it isnt, you may be missing something you really need.

All I want to say in my own defense is that although I do believe most things are allegorical that is not to say that I believe it is any certain percentage of literal vs allegorical. As far as mysteries go I believe there are very few mysteries left unsolved at this point. I would compare it to the parable of the rich man and Lazarus which is the allegory of the Jew (rich man) vs Gentile (Lazarus).  Eaglesway made a good point so I am fixing my post. Many mysteries have already been reveled and I agree there are way more left unsolved.  :banana:

There are sooooo many mysteries my friend :o)  The scriptures are oracles, living words, manifaceted and always new.

And there is no need to defend yourself, we have various opinions and we are just sharing them with one another. I respect your opinion, tho we may disagree at points along the way. Peace. ;o)

  Yes it is always good for us to remind one another  to encourage, strengthen
  each other in Love   ,  what a help in the times of need  , for this I am ever so grateful 

  and love to all  :HeartThrob:

Quote from: anna274 on April 18, 2013, 01:03:47 AM

Quote from: eaglesway on April 17, 2013, 11:03:03 PM

Quote from: anna274 on April 17, 2013, 04:27:24 PM
Thanks eaglesway for taking the time to share so many Scriptures... and of course, I will print your entire post.  Of particular interest was Isaiah 54:7-14...I usually read all scripture verses quoted in context and to my great, great delight Isaiah 54:9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me; for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee---

reminded me to look deeper for the connection between the physical ark and the spiritual ark (Christ)...   there's must be a great connection... Jesus mentions the days of Noah in the same discourse as He shares (warns) about the tribulation.... (Matt 24)...

Yes, I think the ark of Noah and the secret place of the most high are the same. Noah's ark was the secret place for him and his family in his time.

What will it be in ours? "Today if you hear His voice...."

No man knows the day or the hour.....

Blessed is that servant whom the Lord finds so doing when He comes......

Come my children, hide in your rooms for a awhile, till my wrath is spent and the indignation is finished :o)

Oh my, I'm getting ready for a short vacation away from my computer, but decided to do a final check of recent posts and found this one of yours... and I am so happy I did...  you have given me  a "connection" that I would very probably never have even considered had YOU not shared this "connection"... I value your input because I find it always Scripturally sound. 

I very carefully filed your post  under NEEDS IMMEDIATE ATTENTION... after my vacation, that is.

Hi eaglesway... just droppin' in to let you know that I will have a couple of hours tomorrow to give some attention to researching a bit more on the above "connection" that you so graciously provided.  Also, am looking into something that I find very curious   while on/in the ark and as the waters began to recede, Noah first sent out a raven (not a nice clean bird, then a dove (three times)  also of great interest God covenanted with Noah to never again destroy the earth with water...  physical water=water of death; spiritual water=water of life...

interesting... the first time we hear of a dove in NT is when Jesus was immersed/baptized in water.... the second time was at Pentecost...   do we know of a third time??? or is that what Joel prophesied and Peter reminded us of that prophecy (some place in Acts??)... I can't seem to move away from there being a much bigger connection between Noah/physical ark/all flesh destroyed and the end times (destruction by spiritual fire)...all bowing knees.... God all in all....

Yes, the connection is there in 2 pet 3

2Pe 3:2-13  That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:  (3)  Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,  (4)  And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

(5)  For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word(logos) of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:  (6)  Whereby the world(kosmos) that then was, being overflowed(katakluzo) with water, perished:(apollumi) 

(7)  But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word(logos) are kept in store, reserved(tereo- to guard from loss or injury-Strong's) unto fire against the day(period) of judgment(tribunal) and perdition(ruin/loss) of ungodly men.(lose reward,saved as through fire) 

(8)  But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 

(9)  The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish(apollumi), but that all should come to repentance. 

(10)  But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise(the veilof the heavens will be rolledbaclike a scroll and evry eyeshall see Him) , and the elements(stoicheon) shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up(consumed wholly). 

(11)  Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved(luo), what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,  (12)  Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire(burn down/being refined-Strong's) shall be dissolved(luo), and the elements(stoicheon) shall melt with fervent heat?  (13)  Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Behold I am making all things new.

The translation(or mistranslation) of the word 'destroy' is as deceiving as the translation of aion or olam. This destruction is speaking of the "dissolving" of the "stoicheon of the world". The flood did ot physically destroy the earth, it purged it for a new beginning.

IMO these verses are written "for us" "to us-ward"- pointed in our direction who kow the will of God. They describe a (period) "day of tribunal"(Daniel thrones were set up and the court was sat) which will "burn down" the "stoicheon" of the present kosmos. However, even as the water cleansed the face of the earth and destroyed the "kosmos"(world system) that then was- leaving it(albeit only for a little while) a place of peace(dove/olive leaf) for a new beginning- another stage in the "administration suitable to the fulness of times". It is just like the wheat that is separated from the chaff and the chaff swept away and burned with "fervent heat"- same as Jesus' unquenchable fire- thorughly purging His threshing floor, so He can GATHER THE WHEAT/BURN THE CHAFF(refuse of the old man, old kosmos).

Every kernel of wheat is covered with chaff. It either gets separated from the chaff by falling into the ground and dying to reproduce fruit like unto itself(overcomers) or it gets beaten with the threshing fork and winnowed with the fan(blows the chaff away after the beating), swept up and burned. THIS IS FOR THE ULTIMATE PRESERVATION OF THE WHEAT :o)

The word "stoicheon" which is in Peter translated "elements" is in Hebrews 5, the "elementary principles"(of the oracles of God). It means, the core streams, the foundational principles. The core streams and foundational principles may be of God or of man.

In Gal 4:3-5  it(stoicheon) is "Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:  (4)  But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,  (5)  To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Here we see the "stoicheon" of the law "burned down" by the manifestation of "the light of the world", Jesus- in the fulness of time, which means "when the time was ripe according to God's purpose"-  we know His purpose is according to His kind intention which He purposed in Himself, the gathering of all things into one in Christ(Eph 1:9-11)

In Gal 4:9  it(stoicheon) is, But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements(the law), whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

These weak and beggarly elements have been "burned down"- done away by the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. The "flood" of His love "destroyed" them from the cross, ISSUING IN NEW STOICHEON- ELEMENTS/FOUNDATIONS/PRINCIPLES. Ever since then the "unqenchable fire" is burning down the old man Adam and the old elements, weak and beggarly IN THAT THEY COULD NOT PERFECT THOSE WHO WERE LIVING BY THEM and creating a NEW MANKIND for a NEW KOSMOS wherin DWELLS RIGHTEOUSNESS- the righteousness that is by faith in Jesus(I live yet not I but Christ lives in me).

In Col 2:8  it(stoicheon) is, Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world/stoicheon), and not after Christ.

When Peter speaks of the elements being consumed with intense heat he is(IMO) speaking of the "unquenchable fire" of the light of Christ, by His FULLY UNVEILED MANIFESTATION, destroying(apollumi), dissolving(luo/loosing) the "rudiments of the world" and ushering in the last glorious age of earth. LIGHT is FIRE to DARKNESS. Darkness is chaff. Death deals with the chaff(appolumi, kolasis, luo- lost, beaten, loosed- sound familiar all ye prodigals?)

In Col 2:18-23  it is, Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,  (19)  And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.  (20)  Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world/stoicheon, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,  (21)  (Touch not; taste not; handle not;  (22)  Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?  (23)  Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; but having no affect upon the life of the flesh man(my paraphrase).

ONLY DEATH deals with the flesh man- CruCIFIED IN CHrIST, whereby the RENDING OF tHE FLESH/TEARING OF THE VEIL making the EYES OF OUR HEART an APPERTURE OF LIGHT untilwe are RENEWED IN THE FIRE. The purification of our faith through trial and tribulation(threshing floor/winnowing fork) is SANCTIFYING us into the divine nature of Jesus where LOVE REIGNS and GLORY washes the appetite for sin away LIKE FIRE CONSUMING THE CHAFF. This is the GLORIOUS LIBERTY OF thE CHILDREN OF GOD :o) Only in it and by it may we follow Him to where He is, and become seated in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus and "come down out of the heavens adorned as a Bride".

Heb 5:12-14  For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles(stoicheon) of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.  (13)  For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.  (14)  But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age(ripe), even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Those who can SEE THE ELEMENTS and balance them in wisdom(1 Cor 2- the hidden wisdom)- discern the elements of the oracles of God verses the rudiments of the world, the traditions of men. The chaff that is being "burned up with unquenchable fire" is the "elements being consumed with intense heat" as the NEW STOICHEON of the LOGOS OF GOD becomes like a flood of living water that is also a river of fire upon the darkness of carnal men to SET THEM FREE FROM FUTILITY into the glorious liberty of the sons of God.(Romans 8)

In the next age, I believe there is going to be a crack in the sky- a tear in the veil, the eternal will begin to flood into the natural in a NEW RIVER that will gradually fill the earth as the waters cover the sea. This glory, beginning with the appearing/manifesting of Jesus will REMAKE THE WORLD DURING A DAY. A day that is already dawned in the first-fruits and wil reach its zenith over the whole world- a full noon of open revelation of Jesus Christ and the children of God.

2Pe 3:9-13  (9)But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

(10)But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 

(11)  Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,  (12)  Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?  (13)  Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

I think when we die, the silver cord is broken, it snaps with a loud noise- a roar, a shout, perhaps a trumpet sound ;o)and we awaken before the judgment throne- some to reward, some to a period in the fire/consuming light of the presence of God until the knee bows and that person comes into the all in all. How that integrates with the "administration suitable to the fulness(pleroma) of tie"- I am not really sure........But I am sure that fire is for the preservation of the treasured wheat, and the chaff, once separated by beating(kolasis) is burned until it no longer exists- and the wheat is gathered.


Ah me Oh my, God is good,


1Co 2:6-14  Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world(rudiments/stoicheo of this present kosmos), nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought(apollumi,kolasis,luo):  (7)  But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom,(oracles) which God ordained before the world(stoicheon) unto our glory:  (8)  Which none of the princes of this world knew(Col 2:18-23) for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.  (9)  But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him(a new heavens and a new earth wherin righteousness dwells).  (10)  But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.  (11)  For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.  (12)  Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.  (13)  Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth(rudiments of the world), but which the Holy Ghost teacheth(oracles); comparing spiritual things with spiritual(discerning/relating byand in the stoicheon of the Logos of God-living oracles).  (14)  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

those born again from above,symbolized by the dove..the breast of heaven offered to  the new creature..in Christ..both

a new heaven and new earth..in which righteousness dwells..if indeed the spirit of God dwell in you,O'Immanuel.

     The dove symbol is associated with Jerusalem above having brought to birth a son of God,born from above...

  her being sent forth,three times,and remaining the third time, symbolized...the son of man finding a place to lay

  His head[Christ mind.....His name dwelling there]n  the raven sent forth to and fro..is the symbol of the spirit

of Elijah.....saying make strait your paths,repent...the preparatory work for the coming of Christ.

eagleway re: connection;   Sheila re: dove three times

Thanks...  so much to ponder

but  "ah me, oh my, GOD is good" and the Holy Spirit will continue to guide us into all truth.

The wheat/chaff, yes, are ONE.  We are all wheat, we are all chaff, as they are of the same kernel.  Humanity is not divided into saved wheat and unsaved/unsavable tares, as I used to understand it, but the tares and the chaff are the part of us destroyed in the LoF.  :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny:

Personally, I see the LOF as a specific expression of the consuming fire of God reserved for aionian kolassis. I do not believe that anyone whos name is written in the Lamb's book of life (bloodwashed believer) has any part in it.

Altho I understand the point of view about the LOF that all are in it till all are through it and God is all in all- it just doesnt jive with the scriptures.

The way I read it there has to be a benefit for overcoming in Christ in this age, staying current under the blood(confession, repentence, sanctification)- or this is all a play act as far as I can see and a third of the scriptures are worthless(exhortations to perservere and seek the kingdom and warnngs of ill consequences for disobedience and unbelief)) - which means the whole book is worthless.

The firey trial that comes upon believers to purify their faith is their opportunity to enter the priesthood category of sons and inheritors of the promises that the faithless have forsaken in this age. It is the result of being "Children of the Day" who will not be taken like a thief and will not need to be purged, having already completed the process as disciples. Thats what discipleship, stewardship and overcoming are about- some 30 some 60 some 100 fold.  The warning to those who walk in darkness is that they will face kolassis unneeded by those upon whom the blood of Jesus has already been efficacious.

"Confess your faults one to another and pray for one another that you may be healed."

"If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness"

"If we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship(union & communion) with one another and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin".

Light is fire to darkness. It cannot kindle upon the blood washed, the transparent ones, the broken and contrite ones, but rather causes them to shine.

Salvation, santification and restoration are the benefits of overcoming as a faithful disciple who abides in Christ.

IMO, For those who have rejected it, or treated it shamefully- that opportunity will be provided again, in the LoF(whatever that actually is) at or after the Great White Throne, and I believe it will be harder than the one we currently have provided in this age through the cross and the blood and the body of Christ- for those who will come that way- at least, that is the way I read it :o)

  Thanks John
  I  understand your  thoughts on the Lake of Fire  , you said

QuotePersonally, I see the LOF as a specific expression of the consuming fire of God reserved for aionian kolassis. I do not believe that anyone whos name is written in the Lamb's book of life (bloodwashed believer) has any part in it.

I dont know , but always wondered if  when you become Gods Child  , you become  One with the consuming fire of God ?


  Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all. Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble


  what do you makes  of these scriptures  in Isaiah ?
The earth mourneth [and] languisheth: Lebanon is ashamed [and] hewn down: Sharon is like a wilderness; and Bashan and Carmel shake off [their fruits]. 


Isa 33:10 ¶ Now will I rise, saith the LORD; now will I be exalted; now will I lift up myself. 


Isa 33:11   Ye shall conceive chaff, ye shall bring forth stubble: your breath, [as] fire, shall devour you. 


Isa 33:12   And the people shall be [as] the burnings of lime: [as] thorns cut up shall they be burned in the fire. 


Isa 33:13   Hear, ye [that are] far off, what I have done; and, ye [that are] near, acknowledge my might. 


Isa 33:14 ¶ The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? 


Isa 33:15   He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil; 


Isa 33:16   He shall dwell on high: his place of defence [shall be] the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters [shall be] sure. 
Isa 33:17 ¶ Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off. 



where As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. 


Rom 9:26   And it shall come to pass, [that] in the place where it was said unto them, Ye [are] not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. 
Rom 9:27   Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: 

Rom 9:28   For he will finish the work, and cut [it] short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth. 


Rom 9:29   And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha. 


Rom 9:30 ¶ What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 


Rom 9:31   But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 


Rom 9:32   Wherefore? Because [they sought it] not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 


Rom 9:33   As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


  I dont know exactly how the Lord God will do this  work , I just hope  not to be deceived   
  maybe misunderstanding 
    :dunno2:

 :hiya: hi, Anna,

You know, i think there are many levels to God's Word.. He is so able to (#1) to communicate on every level as to all the different sorts of people.. so that for instance, the words, "He burns the chaff up with unquenchable fire" throws fear into the practicing sinner ("to fall into the hands of the living God is a fearful thing"). It's not because our Father hates and has a spirit of vengenance! I wouldn't think.. But that as many have mentioned, He is a consuming fire.

He told Moses to tell the people to stay back from the mountain lest He "break forth and consume them". Which I've heard those critical of the Bible quote as a character flaw of God! (wink! rolF!) Like He was saying 'I don't know if i can control myself and keep from doing away with them all!' I think most who know our loving Father know it was His concern for them that was being expressed.. For He, His essence is a consuming fire.. I'm thinking maybe this is why, or a big reason whey there will be  new heavens and a new earth, because the whole universe groans.. is 'fallen'.. everything being under the dominion of death/imperfection. And God/Life/Perfection who is a consuming fire of all things not pure.

When i think about it, it seems like, to me, (is it Ezekiel?) when he talks about "they will look at each other their faces on fire.." It seems like in context it is describing modern day's capability for thermal-nuclear warfare.. yet perhaps it has a deeper meaning..

I don't believe the fire of God Himself to be physical fire but a higher spiritual fire.. which is Life itself. Which I can't help but think God is Life itself.. "In the beginning God.."

But I do lean toward thinking we will still have "spiritual bodies" and not just be little flames in His all inclusive fire.. I mean, we will be, but also with "spiritual bodies" living within "a new heavens and a new earth"..

I think of His return, when He comes with fire and angels.. and He sends His angels out to gather His elect from the 4 corners/winds of the earth (after the tribulation of those days).. when the "dead in Christ rise first" - I have thought of the bowls ("which occur quickly") as 'coming down' as the saints 'go up" to "meet the Lord in the air and so shall we ever be with the Lord"!

Zechariah 14:4 says His feet touch down upon Mt of Olives (from where He left)...

..perhaps His coming IS the bowls the 7 last effects in the cup of consequences of all Godlessness.. yet, I've always felt that man's destruction of his ways and world will be consequences of man's doings.. Hence the thermal-nuclear of the prophet (Ezekiel, I think) and these last plagues which seem like results of thermal-nuclear??
     :gsmile:

I believe the plagues are literal and by the hand of God- "Let my people go that they may worship me". A last great exodus of the planet earth from under the power of "the rulers of the hosts of wickedness in the heavenly realms.

God used a real flood to set the earth free for Noah. He used real plagues and parted the Red Sea to set Israel free for Egypt. I think he will bring real plagues upon the world under the beast/Pharoah/anti-christ/son of perdition. "Yet once more will I shake the heavens and the earth until only that which cannot be shaken remains".

Whatever typology applies to the plagues and the bowls, I don't believe it will be fulfilled "in time" until the last three and a half years of the age previous to the second coming of Christ.

I believe the two witnesses are literal also, and will call down the plagues, trumpet, then bowl, trumpet, then bowl, etc.

Note: 2nd trumpet- 1/3 green grass burnt up  2nd bowl all green grass burnt up; 3rd trumpet 1/3 waters turned to blood 3rd bowl all the waters turned to blood......7th trumpet the mystery of the gospel is finished  &th bowl "It is Finished".

I believe the LOF is for adversaries in the age to come because of the simple statement, "And anyone whose name was not written in the Lamb's book of life was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone(theon/godfire)."

If your name is written in the Lamb's book of life, you arent thrown into the lake of fire as I read it -symbolically, spiritually or othrwise. :2c:

  Hi all , I would probably  be safe to say , its going to be nothing like any of expect  it to be  :flamebreath:   

I really dont have any solid answers  .period

And  the curse of adam is   the ground for his sake as well as sorrow eating it all the days of his life  , its by the sweat of his face  does he eat bread , until he returns to the ground as the dust , he was taken from .

And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed [is] the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life;   


Gen 3:18   Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 


Gen 3:19   In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return.

  Thanking God we are more than   just dust

Speaking of *fire,

these verses are interesting concerning "fire" in a vision of Ezekiel (see 8:1-3..)

Ezekiel 9;2,4, in his vision with God - 2 And lo, six men are coming from the way of the upper gate ...and one man in their midst is clothed with linen, and a scribe's inkhorn at his loins, and they come in, and stand near the brazen altar... 4 The LORD said to him, "Go through the midst of the city, even through the midst of Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and groan over all the abominations which are being committed in its midst."

Before this one goes out with his inkhorn:

10:6-8 -

6 ..He commanded the man clothed in linen, saying, "Take fire from between the whirling wheels, from between the cherubim," he entered and stood beside a wheel. 7 Then the cherub stretched out his hand from between the cherubim to the fire which was between the cherubim, took some and put it into the hands of the one clothed in linen, who took it and went out. 8 The cherubim appeared to have the form of a man's hand under their wings.

I can't help but think this "marking on the forehead" reminds us of the verses in the Bk of Rev -

rev 7:3,4,9 - 3 saying, "Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads ...One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.. and.. a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues"

[ ..this is exactly where I think we are on planet earth today.]

When the 6th seal was broken, a new fire was unleashed, then it is paused: (It's described here as a intertwined blend of what it is when the seal is 1st broken and what it is in its full growth/'gallop' at the 'end', which pretty much hides a lot of the Revelation vision for some time)

Rev 7:1-3 - 1 And after these things I saw four messengers (angels) standing upon the four corners of the land, holding the four winds of the land, that the wind may not blow upon the land, nor upon the sea, nor upon any tree;

2 and I saw another messenger going up from the rising of the sun, having a seal of the living God, and he did cry with a great voice to the four messengers, to whom it was given to injure the land and the sea, saying,

3 `Do not injure the land, nor the sea, nor the trees, till we may seal the servants of our God upon their foreheads.'

[I believe the 6th seal was the unleashing of thermal-nuclear warfare in 1945 (a direct cross ref to rev 13:13) which thermal-nuclear warfare has been paused (7:1) but will un-pause when the 7th seal is broken, then another (shorter) pause, while the angels with the 7 trumpets of God line up (8:1).. Verse 7:16 says upon those sealed on their forehead "the sun will not beat down on them, nor any heat" - i can't help thinking a form of fire - the sealed ones are still upon planet earth during the trumpets - 9:4]

i'm thinking we will know when the 7th seal is broken (opening the scroll further) when a thermal-nuclear incident occurs.. whether one or more than one.. than a kind of pause again, but not as long as between 1945 and the occurrence(when the 7th seal is broken).. [Rev 6:12-7:17]

Quote from: eaglesway on April 22, 2013, 10:52:32 PM
I believe the plagues are literal and by the hand of God- "Let my people go that they may worship me".

"Let my people go that they may worship me". :trampoline: :cloud9:

Quote from: eaglesway on April 22, 2013, 10:52:32 PM
If your name is written in the Lamb's book of life, you arent thrown into the lake of fire as I read it -symbolically, spiritually or othrwise. :2c:

Amen!!  :iagree: I'm wondering what everyone/anyone thinks it takes to be written in the (Lamb's) book of life?
      ?         or, oops, would that be :offtopic: ?

Quote from: rosered on April 23, 2013, 12:48:47 AM

And  the curse of adam..

Gen 3:19   In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou [art], and unto dust shalt thou return.

  Thanking God we are more than   just dust

   I heartily agree!! :gimmefive: we R loved by Him..  :cloud9:

Thanks sista Marie , for the encouragment   :girlheart:
I read an artical   called Children of the Flame  ,  from dayspring from on High 
Lovely , put together very well many of those writings Bless , have you ever read any of them ?
I like the crystal sea  as well  , first time I discoved this site was when I was wondering what Jesus did to the blind man seeing men walking as trees , well lo and  behold , there was a writing on  men as trees walking  , I know its not excactly  what most would expect  , but I stil found it to be wonderful and informative

http://dayspringfromonhigh.com/ (http://dayspringfromonhigh.com/)